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seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

That Harumafuji match is intense. This is turning out to be a really entertaining tournament so far.

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Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



seorin posted:

That Harumafuji match is intense. This is turning out to be a really entertaining tournament so far.

Best of the day for sure.

Kotoshogiku is a good Ozeki, but Kiseonosato hasnt shown much this tourney. If all finish with winning records (the ozeki and Kakuryu), we may be headed towards a 6th ozeki.

King Pawn
Apr 24, 2010


Great thread, I've never watched Sumo at all before but I've been finding this ongoing tournament very entertaining.

One question: Why is this "henka" sidestepping so frowned upon? It seems like a perfectly reasonable way to counter someone charging forward too recklessly.

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


It is a contact sport; the point is to watch the two guys wrestle, not watch them jump away from eachother.

It's perfectly acceptable to slap down someone who's charging in too low and reckless, but the unwritten rule is that they would need to bump into eachother and make frontal contact first, even if briefly.

edit: for example this is fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXJyljCwciU

pigdog fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2012 around 23:08

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



King Pawn posted:

Great thread, I've never watched Sumo at all before but I've been finding this ongoing tournament very entertaining.

One question: Why is this "henka" sidestepping so frowned upon? It seems like a perfectly reasonable way to counter someone charging forward too recklessly.

Because in 19 out of 20 matches, having a weak tai-ichi immediately puts the match in the favor of your opponent, even though it's not a huge advantage. If you play expecting the henka because of the other 1 out of 20 matches (I'm making that number up, but it's very low), then you're going to mostly get steamrolled in the other 19. However, you don't want to throw EVERYTHING into the tai-ichi either, since you need to maintain balance, so the goal isn't to win the match by dropping your opponent on first contact.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Day 8

Couple of great E Honda slapfests in a row in Miyabiyama vs Takayasu and Shohozan vs Toyohibiki

Fryhtaning fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2012 around 15:58

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Nice job by Aminishiki, too.

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.

What's up with Gagamaru? He had a great record in the January tournament (which I didn't watch, but should now that I know where to find condensed vids) but he hasn't looked all that competitive in this one.

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


He's now in the league of people who know how to deal with someone who weighs 200 kgs.

AFAIK komusubi is also the worst position to be in with regards to getting a positive score, because you'll be facing ozeki and yokozuna early in the tournament, which means you'll likely rack up a lot of losses early, which ruins morale.

Funkysauce
Sep 18, 2005
...and what about the kick in the groin?

I was always interested in Sumo, I never thought I would be getting so drawn in and cheering. Awesome! Thanks again Something Awful for giving me yet another thing to get into!

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



pigdog posted:

He's now in the league of people who know how to deal with someone who weighs 200 kgs.

AFAIK komusubi is also the worst position to be in with regards to getting a positive score, because you'll be facing ozeki and yokozuna early in the tournament, which means you'll likely rack up a lot of losses early, which ruins morale.

Pretty much this.

You're facing about half opponents that are pretty much on the same level as you, and half opponents that have been winning for many, many tournaments, so overall you better be ready to defend your spot. Gagamaru dominated in a tournament where he only faced the top 8 wrestlers a couple times, shot up the ranks, and is obviously going to fall right back where he came from.

Funkysauce posted:

I was always interested in Sumo, I never thought I would be getting so drawn in and cheering. Awesome! Thanks again Something Awful for giving me yet another thing to get into!

I had no idea about it either until I went basically on a whim while in Japan. There's so much poo poo out there in the world to be discovered with just a little digging.

Morgenthau
Aug 28, 2007
Circumstances have gone beyond my control.

Fascinating, I get sumo on NHK on the local satellite tv here and I never really gave them any thought until reading this thread.

I'll definitely try to catch the next matches; consider me interested!

a false
Mar 5, 2009

my point to all of this is that garth snow has really done the best he can to improve this team


i remember watching sumo digest a lot back on the day when it would be on ESPN2 at weird hours. akebono was still active back then and he was impressive as gently caress to watch... i think this was also before takanohana and wakanohana made yokozuna. kaio became my favorite pretty quickly though, he was entertaining as hell and really easy to root for. wish they still had that poo poo on tv occasionally, it's cool that someone's posting all these videos though.

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Holy gently caress today's matches were great. Easily the best day yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SBc9FIkUCA

Although Kintamayama's commentary on the final match made me laugh, I also recommend watching araibira's version because I think it's more tense without the cut in the middle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP1yLHw0bGo

Another good one worth watching on its own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZBCtBJvWI4

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Spoiler time! You've been warned.

Watching it on TV, I wouldn't be surprised if Aminishiki got seriously hurt from that fall. He landed almost directly on his head, with quite a bit of force. It's difficult to see from the original match, but after each match they usually show replays from a few different angles, and the last angle showed it very clearly. It looked really bad; I cringe every time I watch the match again. I seriously hope he's ok.

The surprise victory in the final match sure makes the rest of this tournament more exciting, too. On the other hand, that makes me extra pissed that Kakuryu lost to Kisenosato yesterday. Of all the people to lose to....

Edit: I almost forgot; in the final match, you can hear someone over the loudspeaker asking people to please not throw their cushions.

seorin fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2012 around 11:19

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



seorin posted:

The surprise victory in the final match sure makes the rest of this tournament more exciting, too. On the other hand, that makes me extra pissed that Kakuryu lost to Kisenosato yesterday. Of all the people to lose to....

In his defense, Kisenosato is a fantastic wrestler. He and Harumafuji are about the only two active wrestlers to have any semblance of a good record against Hakuho, so I'll be very excited to see those two try and take the yusho away from the yokozuna. It's obvious, though, that Kisenosato's fighting spirit isn't anything like it was in the last couple of tournaments. Maybe Ozeki was his goal and now he just needs a winning record, so he isn't being as aggressive. Maybe the death of his stablemaster was that big of a motivator last time. Maybe he is hurt. Who knows.

The Aminishiki bout has me pretty convinced that Gagamaru's scowl is the only expression that he knows, regardless if he is actually showing kindness/concern or not (as he appeared to be as Aminishiki came back onto the dohyo).

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


For the record, here are the kensho standings so far. Kensho are bonus envelopes of cash that sponsors specifically grant to the winner of a specific match, in return for parading banners with their advertisements around the ring while the wrestlers psych up.

After the match is over, the envelopes are then presented to the winner of the match by the referee on his fan, and the winner performs a peculiar hacking motion over the envelopes with the blade of his hand, before accepting them.

code:
As of Day 7
		Kensho	Yen
Hakuho		167	9,185,000
Baruto		55	3,025,000
Kotoshogiku	48	2,640,000
Kakuryu		39	2,145,000
Kisenosato	33	1,815,000
Kotooshu	23	1,265,000
Toyonoshima	22	1,210,000
Ikioi		20	1,100,000
Goeido		19	1,045,000
Harumafuji	14	  770,000
For the reference, 1000 yen =~ $12

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004


Day 10 is here!

Aran is a jerkbag who pulls at least three henka attempts every tournament.

Still 4 leaders in the tournament. This is gonna be fun.

pigdog fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2012 around 10:54

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Not too exciting but we still have 4 leaders so poo poo's gonna get intense. Baruto and Hakuho still have key match ups against the ozeki, including against each other.

a false
Mar 5, 2009

my point to all of this is that garth snow has really done the best he can to improve this team


day 11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeJUywEk1V0

down to two leaders.... also, aran with another henka, making it three straight

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Son of a bitch... Baruto's only chance involves beating Hakuho at this point.

If Kakuryu goes 14-1 and Kisenosato gets his 8, I wonder if we're going to have a 6th Ozeki. Has that ever happened? That's really a testament to how close the competition is up top, Hakuho aside.

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Baruto

Funkysauce
Sep 18, 2005
...and what about the kick in the groin?

Dammit! Baruto losing that one was tough.

Either way it's an exciting Basho and I can't wait for tomorrow. Maybe some upsets?

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Day 12

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Just a little bit to add from the actual broadcast version.

Takanoyama's second match was close. They ended up calling it in Aoiyama's favor because Takanoyama's loving heel touched the outside of the ring just before Aoiyama went over. drat fine effort. Takanoyama's got spirit.

Yoshikaze seems to have only lost his match because he got hurt. I don't know the extent of it, but he could barely step down off the dohyo by himself. He limped with frequent breaks about two-thirds of the way to the exit before someone finally came for him to put his arm around and lean on while he limped the rest of the way. Something seems to have happened to his foot or leg, but I haven't heard any further details yet. If you watch the match again, you can't pinpoint an exact moment, but you can tell that he just stops fighting at the end and lets himself get gently pushed out. Poor dude.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Ramblings incoming...

Baruto just hasn't looked good. As much as there needs to be the excitement of another Yokozuna, he just can't have a tournament like this one, ever, let alone right after a yusho, if he wants to be Yokozuna. Disappointing, but we may still be years away from another Yokozuna. Hakuho is still a head above the rest, and the rest includes 5 Ozeki, possibly 6, who can all beat each other on any given day. You could probably complete a circle out of who has beat who between the ozeki and Hakuho this tournament.

Something worth looking for, especially starting yesterday, is any sign of corruption, since a LOT of rikishi were sitting in the 6-8 win range. Goeido already had his 8 and demolished Wakanosato, who was sitting at 7, so that was encouraging to see. All the maegashira matches where both were sitting at 5-7 wins were brutal. Very refreshing to watch.

I had forgotten how much Homasho has grown on me. Dude has huge arms and I love his chest-thumping pre-match routine, but he is also one of the classiest wrestlers and is still going strong at nearly 31.

And speaking of pre-match routines... I remember a couple of times seeing someone who does a loving standing split for his first foot stomp during the pre-match. It's been forever since all I've had in the past year-plus are the condensed versions of the matches. Is it Toyonoshima? I know he's flexible as hell.

Pvt. Public
Sep 9, 2004

I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.

Takanoyama's fighting spirit is just inspiring. He clearly goes balls out into every match, but his massive size disadvantage just can't really be overcome by technique. Unless he wanted to cheap out and try the Aran way of winning, I guess...

As for Baruto, I was so very much hoping he'd gain promotion but he just hasn't looked in form enough to warrant it. And his ups and downs will not get him there any faster. He needs to maintain match-to-match fighting quality and then also win. No a small order by any stretch of the imagination, but that's what he needs to earn his title. I hope he can do it, as I really like him.

I seem to remember Asashoryu having quite a wide split during his dohyo-iri, but that might be my dumb brain tricking me.

a false
Mar 5, 2009

my point to all of this is that garth snow has really done the best he can to improve this team


wow, aran won without a henka???? unbelievable

also, pulling hard for kakuryu. he deserves ozeki, certainly more than 3/5 of the current group.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Pvt. Public posted:

I seem to remember Asashoryu having quite a wide split during his dohyo-iri, but that might be my dumb brain tricking me.

He did, and also who can forget his thunderous belly slap as part of his routine? But I first noticed this at the first tournament I saw live, which was Fukuoka in 2010, after Asashoryu retired. When we saw one of those (definitely makuuchi, at that time at least) guys go completely vertical with his standing split, it blew our gaijin minds.

a false posted:

wow, aran won without a henka???? unbelievable

also, pulling hard for kakuryu. he deserves ozeki, certainly more than 3/5 of the current group.

Based on this tournament, sure, but let's not forget that Kisenosato and Kotoshogiku were equally impressive, if not more, to reach their rank. Harumafuji and Baruto have been winning for years. Kotooshu is the one who for some reason barely has hung on even though he has been an Ozeki since '06.

uinfuirudo
Aug 11, 2007


Pvt. Public posted:

Takanoyama's fighting spirit is just inspiring. He clearly goes balls out into every match, but his massive size disadvantage just can't really be overcome by technique. Unless he wanted to cheap out and try the Aran way of winning, I guess...

He is definitely really entertaining to watch. Kakuryuu is looking really good, but I seriously dont think that anyone definitely can truly compete with Hakuhou right now hes just unbelievably good.

Pvt. Public
Sep 9, 2004

I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.

uinfuirudo posted:

He is definitely really entertaining to watch. Kakuryuu is looking really good, but I seriously dont think that anyone definitely can truly compete with Hakuhou right now hes just unbelievably good.

You know, the one thing that stands out to me in terms of separating Hakuho from the others is his starting stance. I've been watching closer since there have been ozeki looking to get promoted, but no one really looks solid, centered and steady the way Hakuho does. It just really sticks out at me and reminds me of past yokozunas. Most guys seem to put too much weight forward onto their hands/wrists/shoulders like a football lineman (or track runners) would. Since linemen (and runners) are meant to put force only forward (for the most part) it makes sense for them. Sumo, on the other hand, I think would be better served keeping their weight balanced and steady rather than attempting to make a headstrong rush at the start.

Pvt. Public fucked around with this message at Mar 22, 2012 around 21:34

Anime Reference
Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, it's an anime reference.

Pvt. Public posted:

You know, the one thing that stands out to me in terms of separating Hakuho from the others is his starting stance.
This basho is the first time I've watched sumo since they stopped showing "Sumo Digest" on ESPN2 years ago, but a week of matches is all it took to be able to recognize Hakuho's stance instantly. It's really distinctive.

Pvt. Public
Sep 9, 2004

I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.

Anime Reference posted:

This basho is the first time I've watched sumo since they stopped showing "Sumo Digest" on ESPN2 years ago, but a week of matches is all it took to be able to recognize Hakuho's stance instantly. It's really distinctive.

I've been watching off and on for years (and man do I miss Sumo Digest), but it really seems to be a big thing that a lot of wrestlers just don't get (that most yokozuna seem to have figured out). I would think the stance would be one of the biggest teaching points since balance is everything, but maybe I'm wrong. I've never delved into sumo instruction to really know for sure.

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Pvt. Public posted:

Takanoyama's fighting spirit is just inspiring.

This. Whenever I think about it, I think of how often he loses just due to his weight disadvantage, and the thought that he steps in that ring every night, knowing he's probably going to lose, and just gives it his all anyway, never giving up until it's truly over ... dude is easily my favorite rikishi.

a false
Mar 5, 2009

my point to all of this is that garth snow has really done the best he can to improve this team


a comment i just read on a youtube video just got me thinking - now that asashoryu's out of sumo, he should try to become a lineman in the nfl. seriously. he's got the size, he's probably quicker than most other dudes who play the position, and he's certainly incredibly strong. not too old either. would be a good way to make himself a bunch of money. a lot of rikishi would probably be really good at it actually, but it's unlikely that anyone who wasn't forced out of sumo under duress would give it up for a different sport (unless they just really wanted to make a lot more money).

i honestly don't know that much about football and have only really started to get into the intricacies of sumo, but does that sound plausible? it seems like the skillset for sumo would more than adequately prepare someone to be a good defensive player in football.

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates


a false posted:

a comment i just read on a youtube video just got me thinking - now that asashoryu's out of sumo, he should try to become a lineman in the nfl. seriously. he's got the size, he's probably quicker than most other dudes who play the position, and he's certainly incredibly strong. not too old either. would be a good way to make himself a bunch of money. a lot of rikishi would probably be really good at it actually, but it's unlikely that anyone who wasn't forced out of sumo under duress would give it up for a different sport (unless they just really wanted to make a lot more money).

i honestly don't know that much about football and have only really started to get into the intricacies of sumo, but does that sound plausible? it seems like the skillset for sumo would more than adequately prepare someone to be a good defensive player in football.

It's really not at all plausible. 31 is well on the downside of a career, especially in a high-contact position like lineman. He's almost certainly physically inferior to guys coming out of college, and he has no experience whatsoever in the game to make up for it.

Even assuming he can match up physically against dudes 10 years younger than him that weigh 300+ pounds, can run a 40-yard dash in 5 seconds, and have a 30" vertical leap, he'd need to learn the following things:
1) how football works
2) correct footwork (this would probably be his easiest adjustment)
3) how to use his hands, particularly with regard to not being penalized
4) teamwork
5) memorizing several hundred plays, his assignments, and the call
6) memorizing the terminology for adjustments at the line of scrimmage

e: He'd also have to deal with translating his skills into a football uniform, and dealing with the incredible physical beating of the game.

Mornacale fucked around with this message at Mar 23, 2012 around 09:13

seorin
May 23, 2005

2 Sun's Dusk (Day 78)
Of the Seven Visions of Seven Trials of the Incarnate, I have now fulfilled the Fifth Trial.

Day 13

Some drat good matches today. Mild, potentially spoilery thoughts below this line!

First, I actually missed the broadcast matches today (didn't make it home in time), and then while I was halfway through the digest, the news spoiled the results of the two big matches (had the TV on in the background). Thanks, news.

Second, I continue to love Takanoyama. I wish I could have seen the replays of that.

I think I was too hard on Kisenosato before. He really does have skill, but he started out this tournament very, very poorly. I think I generally enjoy watching his matches more than Kotoshogiku, though - not because Kotoshogiku is bad, but because he seems kind of like a one trick pony. It's a very good trick, but still, it's kind of like Aran and his henka.

After the spoilers, the news actually showed a short interview with Hakuho. He said that he hasn't lost his balance like that in a very long time and it really surprised him.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



seorin posted:

Second, I continue to love Takanoyama. I wish I could have seen the replays of that.

I think I was too hard on Kisenosato before. He really does have skill, but he started out this tournament very, very poorly. I think I generally enjoy watching his matches more than Kotoshogiku, though - not because Kotoshogiku is bad, but because he seems kind of like a one trick pony. It's a very good trick, but still, it's kind of like Aran and his henka.

And I was coming here to say, "And that, my friends, is why Kisenosato is an Ozeki - the eternal thorn in Hakuho's side."

I'm loving loving this basho. How long has it been since there were 5 ozeki and a yokozuna, with a 6th ozeki imminent, and all of them with winning records? You expect Hakuho to usually win against the rest of them, but you always get the feeling that it's anyone's match within that group. Kotooshu was wrestling like poo poo and I still had a horrible feeling before he almost took Baruto out of the running.

These last two days are going to be loving epic. I want to see a 3-way tie at 12-3 (mostly for Baruto's sake), but it looks like Kakuryu is going to do this thing. That would make 3 yusho in a span of 5 tournaments by someone not named Asashoryu or Hakuho since 2003.

Fryhtaning
Jul 21, 2010



Edit: Oops, false post.

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TotallyGreen
Jun 30, 2002

REMIND ME AGAIN, HOW
THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED
ONES MOVE.


This thread has been really great and I'm enjoying watching the matches. One question: Is there anywhere I can find the results of previous tournaments in english? This Site has the current tournament's results, but I couldn't find a way to look backwards, other than just finding the person who won. I'd like to see who won each mach for previous tournaments.

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