Sumo - RIP Great Yamato Hope - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Sumo - RIP Great Yamato Hope

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Quodio Stotes posted:

Not to rain on the parade but this freakonomics piece made me go from mildly interested in sumo to never really wanting to watch it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qKP9v-76w4. (A little bit of the beginning of this piece is in the part2 video before it). The piece is ultimately interesting and disheartening at the same time and reveals a bit about the darker side of Japanese culture. Many of the events held at Japanese MMA organizations like pride have had many dubious behind the scene issues and match fixing. I think its a combination of yakuza influence in combat sports and the Japanese culture of silence.

As was mentioned in the OP, the Spring tournament was canceled last year due to this scandal. NHK was even considering no longer broadcasting any sumo, so the fact that they are still doing it at least makes me hopeful they're trying to root out corruption.

The yakuza connection sort of exists (sumo = traditional = right wing = organized crime), but the real cause of match fixing is how the banzuke is put together. If you win 8 times, you'll get promoted. If you only win 7 times, you'll get demoted. There's a lot of value in that 8th win, and much less in getting your 9th. You'd see the evidence of fixes in the largely in bouts between rikishi with 7-7 and 8-6 records. The 7-7 guy would win a disproportionate amount of the time, with the 8-7 almost always winning the next time the two crooked rikishi met.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2012 08:24

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:06

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

That was incredible.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2012 10:18

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Day 9

Goueidou v Harumafuji was kind of hilarious, in a sad way.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2012 13:06

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Anime Reference posted:

During the last basho a guy was telling me sumo wrestlers actually have the most lean mass out of any athlete, including powerlifters. I'm skeptical but it certainly sounds plausible.

Akebono was on a variety show the other week and he said that when he was in fighting shape his body-fat percentage was 20%.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2013 04:49

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Fryhtaning posted:

In other news, Miyabiyama, who will now be remembered for being a Juryo whipping boy at the end of his career instead of an ex-Ozeki, has finally read the writing on the wall and has announced retirement.

Really interested to see how things go with Harumafuji now. He is technically off to a better start than the disappointing Wakanohana at least. But Wakanohana was also from an era of 4 Yokozuna while Harumafuji is one of two with nobody else even close to being a Yokozuna threat. He can't be losing 6 but once in a blue moon, let alone twice in 3 tournaments.

I think you're underestimating everyone's ability to forget the lovely tail-ends of athlete's careers. I don't think a misguided attempt to gut it out in Juryo cancels out a year plus as Ozeki.

I have a feeling that Harumafuji is about the same level as the other Ozeki, but with much better hot-streaks. He had the fortune of having one really long hot-streak, which is all that an Ozeki really needs to make Yokozuna. I hope another one or two of the current Ozeki class are somehow able to pull off two straight wins and make it to Yokozuna, but I doubt they will with how insanely dominant Hakuho is.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2013 02:36

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Fryhtaning posted:

So who else had Kotooshu as the closest challenger to Hakuho after 10 days?

Anyone? Bueller?

I really hope he's turned a corner. He's probably just going to go back to barely dodging demotion, though.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2013 02:53

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Gibbo posted:

Wait what.

Keirin exists entirely FOR gambling. Or is it not a "sport"?

Legal sports gambling is limited to keirin, horse racing (keiba), boat racing (kyotei), and motorcycle racing (autorace). Everything else you need a tattooed bookie for.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2013 09:01

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Fryhtaning posted:

My Japanese is very low level, but, "gold jewel" is the literal translation for "testicle"? Seems to fit Kintamayama's sense of humor if true.

Day 14 is going to be huge. I can't wait. I really want to see Kise beat Hakuho again.

Kintama is slang for balls, not a formal translation of testicle

# ¿ Sep 27, 2013 03:00

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

anakha posted:

Rename M6 'Lard Mountain'.

Ah yes, the coveted 豚脂山 (tonshi-yama) rank.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2015 08:30

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2015 09:32

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Love Hakuho's ongoing heel-turn :swoon:

# ¿ Mar 28, 2016 01:16

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Gibbo posted:

You know for someone that's been around for quite a while and never really seems to do anything, Kaisei floats fairly high in the rankings.

Is he married to someone important?

If you go 8-7, they have to promote you. Combine that with one decent basho at a high Maegashira rank, you hit Komusubi. The "real" san'yaku ranks have stricter requirements. So, no, it's not odd for a long-time rank-and-filer that hasn't done a whole lot but avoid getting sent down to Juryo to be Komusubi. They tend to get thrashed since they go up against the real elites, tho.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2016 05:40

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

I mean he did come in second and beat all the yokozuna in November, but 12-3 just seems a win short of a yusho-level jun-yusho to me. Did the association say he was a promotion candidate this basho?

# ¿ Jan 20, 2017 05:45

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

If Kisenosato is an Asashoryu fan, I might be forced to like him. Hakuho might be the GOAT, but Asashoryu has always been my fave.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2017 01:45

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

It doesn't look like Kisenosato is going to be able to pull this one out. He can't do anything with that arm and now he's gotta beat Terunofuji twice in a row.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2017 10:11

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Holy poo poo, he did it. Gotta say Kisenosato has won me over as a fan.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2017 10:52

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Rigel posted:

You act like the Henka was an accepted part of the sport forever, that it was something ancient rikishi did, and that we have stone tablets carved of matches from long ago showing a well-executed henka.

That isn't the case, its a relatively recent thing, and the public have reluctantly accepted it because it was something guys in the sanyaku didn't do, low ranked young wrestlers would resort to it in desperation. Then eventually foreign wrestlers decided they give no fucks, japanese wrestlers retaliate, and we see it all the time now. Its probably a part of the pushback and limitations against foreign wrestlers who the already famously xenophobic public think "don't get sumo". It COULD be banned, a lot of people think it should be. I'd like it to be something that exists because it can serve a purpose (its a check against a reckless tachi-ai), but its not something you do to literally the most popular wrestler in sumo (except kise now obviously) who was the only guy who ever got a pop from the crowd, trying to save his career on day 14. If thats too much to ask, then yes I guess then we can't have nice things (or the henka) and perhaps it should be banned.

Kise won the first match with Terunofuji with a henka. Why does it matter how long people have been using henka? Sports change.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 03:46

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Fryhtaning posted:

Most sports have serious no-nos which aren't illegal, but everyone in the sport knows that you cross those lines at the risk of taking a some serious retaliation later on. What went around came around, but unfortunately the net loser in it all was a guy with his career on the line. Giku isn't retiring though, so I'm busting out some serious popcorn for the Giku v Teru rematch in May. Given that the henka retaliation card has already been played, my guess is that it's going to look like a rabid dog humping a bear until Giku either wins by yorikiri or disintegrates. That's assuming Teru doesn't lose the mental battle and assume a henka, then get blasted out in a second.

Those are frequently called "unwritten rules" and they are all dumb as hell.

Rigel posted:

He did not win with the henka. Any match which does not end within 2 seconds, by definition, was not won with a henka.

He did it to get better position to get his injured arm away from him, Teru obviously expected it, and of course after the day 14 crap, almost no one including me would have given a drat if Teru went flying past like a bull

Lol, sure.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 05:11

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Rigel posted:

What do you mean, "Lol, sure", your argument is crap. You only "win with the henka", if the match is ended almost immediately because you went flying p-ast or were off-balance and get easily pushed out.

That did not happen in either match, so the match was not won with the henka, obviously. You want it to be the case because then you can smugly claim a double standard, but wanting something to be true is not the same as something being true.

He henka-ed at the start and he won. He might have lost with the normal tachiai. It's not that big of stretch to say he won with a henka, but sure, whatever, he didn't "win with a henka" if you narrow the definition down to nothing.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 05:17

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Rigel posted:

Your idea of "winning with the henka" is shared by almost no one. We all know what it looks like.

He won in a match where he used a henka. That was the meaning I was intending and I think that's pretty clear from context. I'm sorry you misunderstood. Now we've cleared up that misunderstanding. You're saying all henkas should be banned, right? So are you angry that Kisenosato won and would you be happy if he had been disqualified instead?

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 05:22

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Rigel posted:

The first match was a prolonged struggle, and near the end kise maneuvered into position for a slap-down.

The second match was a suicide throw that somehow worked because I guess Teru just did not expect that Kise would commit to such a risky all or nothing move.

Any attempt to argue that either match was won with the henka is both silly and obviously driven by a motive to win an internet argument.

So you're saying that Kisenosato didn't henka at the beginning of the first match?

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 05:32

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Platypus Farm posted:

Also unless harumafuji retires, there aren't any spots.

Of course with his, uh, GOLD STAR performance at this basho, I feel sorry for the guy but he's gotta be thinking at least a little in that direction.

There's no set cap (or minimum) on the number of yokozuna or ozeki. I would guess they would be less willing to accept something as a "yusho-equivalent" or even consider downgrading a win at this basho if there's four yokozuna come December. I think they'd go to five if Goeido wins this basho and again in November against healthy competition. But that would only be if they couldn't pressure someone into retiring, which you know they'll do.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2017 05:22

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Platypus Farm posted:

Yeah the allegation jason was talking about was that HMF cracked Takanoiwa in the head, then when he fell down that he followed him tot he ground, sat on him and punched him several times. This is kinda getting crazy.

Yeah, poo poo is getting weird. The medical form describing the injuries submitted to the federation differed from the one submitted to the police, with the one the police getting *not* saying there was a fracture. There are parts of Japanese media that are prone to sensationalize these sorts of things and there's a lot folks making hay with these apparent inconsistencies. It's going to take a while for the story to settle.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2017 09:23

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Platypus Farm posted:

If this all comes out as bullshit, I really hope Harumafuji is allowed to retire on his own terms, even though I know that's never going to happen.

I'm pretty sure Harumafuji did smack the poo poo out of the guy (I think both reports mention a concussion) and the whole situation stems from the culture within sumo. I'm sure the Association was keen to just let this stay a quiet thing until Taka-no-hana and Taka-no-iwa filed the police report and this sort of incident is closer to a rule than an exception. Taka-no-hana has been acting funny throughout this, so I'm wondering if he's not trying to use this as leverage in some sort of struggle inside the Association.

I guess my main takeaway at this point is that it's heartening to see the Japanese media give so much attention to (alleged) foreigner-on-foreigner crime :woop:

# ¿ Nov 17, 2017 15:03

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Harumafuji is retiring. Press conference later on today.
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/pickup/6262840

# ¿ Nov 28, 2017 23:11

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

Martytoof posted:

Now we need to come up with a witty new thread title.

"RIP Great Yamato Hope"

# ¿ Jan 17, 2019 03:47

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

nice thread title :c00l:

# ¿ Jan 18, 2019 01:53

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

bessantj posted:

I was looking at Hakuho 's past record and at one tournament he has a record of of 2�3�10. I know the first number is wins and the second losses, what does the third represent?

Kyujo (out with an injury)

# ¿ Mar 25, 2019 09:47

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 17:06

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

it's "kyujo" 休場きゅうじょう

# ¿ Jul 5, 2019 00:44

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