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What sorts of quests would a joinable bandit faction have, besides dungeon diving and encampment-wiping-out that you just do on your own anyway?
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 01:16 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 06:35 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:Also there's the Dark Brotherhood; I haven't started them at all yet, but I saw that an end-game faction reward is a torture chamber with live victims. So, cool. That's 2/4 factions that are for people who don't mind harming lots of innocents. You also get one of the coolest looking horses in the game. Kimmalah fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 01:27 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 01:19 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:
I don't think it was shady. Presenting werewolfism as just this thing that's accepted by the natives and hidden from outsiders was a neat subversion of tropes and I was glad to make my character a werewolf; he's a Redguard but I RP him as having a lot of respect for tradition, mysticism, and cool artifacts and things. It fit with his character to take on this "gift" that has been demonized but really is more of a connection to nature. Then they reveal that it ISN'T part of true Companion tradition, it's a curse they picked up many generations in and the wisest guy you know only wishes to be rid of it. Lame. Another thing to bitch about : I've only done the Companions, of the four main "factions", but they've given me a bunch of things to bitch about. - No real factions. They're not a faction. You don't get privileges for joining, they don't have any real presence, they're just a handful of questgivers who live under one roof. - The faction quests are pitiful. Even by Skyrim's quest standards. I've explored some really long and interesting Bandit Caves with interesting scenery and setpieces. Why are half of the Companions quests literally one-room caves? They even introduce a potentially interesting rival faction who turn out to be Cartoonishly evil, decorating their shabby strongholds with werewolf heads and corpses, and literally nothing to differentiate themselves from bandits. Their strongholds have no structure, they're just loot corridors. They have maybe one or two named NPC's and nothing else. The entire questline aside from Shimmermist Whatever is just long treks to one-room caves or featureless forts. Which is made even weirder by, as I said, the fact that there are some cool unique caves/forts/dungeons out there. Why bother doing that and skimp so hard on one of the main faction lines? - The faction questlines are SHORT. The Companions go down an interesting road and then it just ends and you get radiant quests from the people you are supposedly the boss of. From what I've heard, the other factions are the same way.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 01:25 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:Two more points that I am reminded of!  The Dovahkiin is like the worst person, isn't s/he? Not to mention the fact that you can pledge your soul to every daedra ever in exchange for trinkets you'll barely use, and then you're probably laughing all the way to Sovnguarde when you die (if you're not just immortal anyway) because being dragonborn probably is a major loophole when it comes to things like that. I can imagine every Daedra gathered around a table, arguing over who the gently caress gets your soul (if anyone!) now that you're dead, and you just standing back looking all  In TES V: Skyrim, you play the villain.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 02:05 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:I accidentally picked up the Radiant Bounty quest in Morthal and it was to kill a giant. It says it's been attacking and harassing travelers, but by my experience giants never start anything unless you really go out of your way to get them riled up. I bet some people went into the camp seeing if they could steal one of those clubs and got themselves killed. That's what I think probably happened. gently caress giants, I go out of my way to brings the bastards down now. And I kill their mammoths for spite.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 03:23 |
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Tender Bender posted:
The Mages College doesn't hold up much better; it's 4 dungeon crawls and an abrupt ending. I was Arch-Mage with my highest magic skill at 35, and all I have to do now are random dungeons and the MQ I guess. I miss how it was in Morrowind. Since your progression was tied to your skills, and your quests were tied to your progress, it paced itself based on how far along your character was. The factions were also factions, not questlines. You could join the Mages Guild just for cheaper spells, or the Fighters Guild just for access to trainers and a place to stay when in a new city. In Skyrim, you don't join the Companions because you're a fighter looking for resources and a good start, you join them because you want to do the questline. Thieves Guild seemed pretty legit from what little I've played of it, though! I do like the idea of radiant quests, but most of them seem to be "Go here, collect item, come back" but at least the guild isn't dead the moment you become its leader. I would've liked it if, like, each faction had a much more lazily paced story, with lots of different kinds of Radiant quests as filler to make it feel like you were working as part of a guild. Thieves Guild did it very right by having like 8 different radiant quest-types you could do. I don't get how Bethesda nails it with one single guild and drops the ball with Mages and Companions.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 03:53 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:Thieves Guild seemed pretty legit from what little I've played of it, though! I do like the idea of radiant quests, but most of them seem to be "Go here, collect item, come back" but at least the guild isn't dead the moment you become its leader. Lycus fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 04:51 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 04:49 |
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Kilroy posted:Or if you're in the middle of something like fighting a drat dragon and a giant wanders over and decides to join. By which I mean he'll either join the dragon in killing you, or help you kill the dragon then turn on you despite your never so much as scratching him. The giant at Cradlecrush Rock helped me kill a dragon, then he just stood there rubbing his chin like he didn't what the hell was going on. On the other hand giants out walking on the roads are a bunch of dicks though. As for the Dovahkiin, I think it really hit me that I was playing a terrible person in Riften. First I spend all this time helping them and they all love me, then I join the Thieves Guild and spend most of my time shaking them down for protection money, pickpocketing/burglarizing them and framing them. Sorry Brand-shei.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 05:15 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:The Mages College doesn't hold up much better; it's 4 dungeon crawls and an abrupt ending. I was Arch-Mage with my highest magic skill at 35, and all I have to do now are random dungeons and the MQ I guess. I was trying to figure out why I wanted to do random "Go to X and fight Y" quests like the filler Fighter's Guild stuff in Morrowind, and you hit the nail on the head; I want to feel like a cog in a machine that works his way up. The Companions are supposed to be this organized faction of mercenaries, descended from the original warriors who owned the poo poo out of the elves. How about having a strong presence in a few cities, with bands of companions walking around as people eye them wondering if they're in town to crack some skulls or just throw down some mead. Instead they're a couple of bros who sit around and don't really do anything. How the hell does a guard in Markath know that I'm a companion? I'm surprised he's even heard of them since they only leave the boathouse to take care of their personal vendettas.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 06:30 |
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Something I had to accept early on in Skyrim was that I was the Chosen One for everyone, forever, and the world was built exclusively to pander to me. I don't mind the lack of a deep story, dialogue, or choice system, because the game's clearly a different beast than something like New Vegas, but the way I became everyone's best friend and champion with zero effort still began to wear on me. The Thieves' Guild is pretty much the only organization where you actually have to earn some respect first, and even that's minimal. The only "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE" scene I thought actually worked was for the Dark Brotherhood. Hell, most of the Dark Brotherhood scenarios and dialogue felt like they were written by a different team. They weren't stellar, but they were definitely a cut above the rest of the game.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 08:39 |
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So, your name is Farengar Secret-Fire huh? I suppose whoever named your family didn't realize that once it's in your name IT ISN'T SECRET ANYMORE.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 10:51 |
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I can't remember ever getting to say no to any thing. It's always just "Maybe later" Or "I'll get back to you". Hell, Some times the NPC's won't even let me say no when the option is given. :Hey dovahkiin? Want to do this task for me? :Nope. :Well let me just put this quest in your log, and then ill wait for you to change your mind.Its infuriating. If im offered a quest, I should to be able to say no. Not later, Not eventually, Not ill think about it, NO. NEVER. I don't want it in my log, I don't want a quest item reminding me to do it, I want nothing to do with it.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 13:24 |
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Not just in Skyrim, but in other Bethesda titles (and other RPG's)... You get a quest to dwelve into an ancient tomb, that has been sealed for decades. Decades. Not a living soul is to be found within this tomb, as it is littered with skeletons, corpses... ... and a crapton of perfectly-lit and arranged candles in candelabras, ornaments, and whatnot. I mean, if there are candles and torches lit in these supposedly "empty" and "never-before explored" tombs / dungeons / crypts, then who is tending to making sure the torches are supplied with more oil, and the candles are being replaced every 2 hours so they don't burn out? If it's the zombies that do it, well, where the heck are they getting more oil / candles to keep this thing up? Does every tomb have a secret waxmaker devoted to nothing but replenishing this place's supply? ... or am I being duped, and this "ancient tomb that nobody has visited in 200 years" was actually visited 2 hours prior by the quest giver, just to be sure that everything checks out?
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:08 |
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They're magic candles. Seriously, have you ever been able to blow one out? 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:21 |
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Guigui posted:Not just in Skyrim, but in other Bethesda titles (and other RPG's)... This brings me back to how Morrowind was better. I've had load saves in dungeons because I ran out of torches. It was so dark, that I literally got impossibly lost, and without some sort of magic scrolls of teleport, I was stuck. In Skyrim, I didn't ever need to use a lightsource. The dungeons have so much lighting (as you said, impossible lighting) that its a waste of time. Magic light could be cool, but stumbling around in the dark instantly makes the world more dangerous. I can't dodge traps easily, monsters can actually sneak up on me, etc. And no, I didn't have my brightness cranked up. It was on their recommended settings. Maybe someone can edit out all the dungeon lighting when the editor comes out.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 14:56 |
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Brainbread posted:This brings me back to how Morrowind was better. I've had load saves in dungeons because I ran out of torches. Yeah, not being able to see anything is totally awesome. MY IMMERSION 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 16:37 |
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Guigui posted:Not just in Skyrim, but in other Bethesda titles (and other RPG's)... I was actually planning to fix that as soon as the creation kit came out. It should be easy enough just to remove all the static torches/light sources and replace them with empty torch stands the player could place torches in. Of course i wouldn't do this to every cave dungeon and ruin out there, Some of them are inhabited by living creatures that would've placed some torches around, and i don't think i'd do it to dwemer ruins since im fairly certain they either have their bots change the oil or they use some kind of electricity to power all the lamps. But i'd definately try to go through all the draugr and falmer caves and take out any torches and replace them with more empty stands and maybe static glow shrooms.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 17:03 |
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Brainbread posted:This brings me back to how Morrowind was better. I've had load saves in dungeons because I ran out of torches. Did you have some kind of darkness mod? I don't remember ever experiencing this in morrowind.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:01 |
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Oxxidation posted:Something I had to accept early on in Skyrim was that I was the Chosen One for everyone, forever, and the world was built exclusively to pander to me. I don't mind the lack of a deep story, dialogue, or choice system, because the game's clearly a different beast than something like New Vegas, but the way I became everyone's best friend and champion with zero effort still began to wear on me. The Thieves' Guild is pretty much the only organization where you actually have to earn some respect first, and even that's minimal. I think the only one that really bothered me was the College of Winterhold storyline. You're going to make some new student who just showed up and started learning basic spells the archmage? Really? I was expecting a very experienced mage like Tollfdir right up until the end and it stretched believability to the breaking point for me. As I've been doing the Thieves Guild and Boethiah quests, I've also noticed that it seems almost impossible to fail. In both instances I was given quests where it was specified that I had to be really stealthy and not get caught. But as it turns out, you can just slaughter your way through Goldenglow Estate and you can directly confront the guy with the Ebony Mail with no effect on the quests. I even ended up killing a guard or two while shadowing that guy in the East Empire Company Warehouse without incurring any consequences. Is it even possible to fail those quests? And why make sneaking a requirement if you can't?
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 18:59 |
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Guigui posted:Not just in Skyrim, but in other Bethesda titles (and other RPG's)... I forget which one, but I read a lore book that said the draugr are there to serve the dragon priest or whoever's locked up in there for eternity, so maybe they keep them lit? 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 19:07 |
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Sex Hobbit posted:I forget which one, but I read a lore book that said the draugr are there to serve the dragon priest or whoever's locked up in there for eternity, so maybe they keep them lit? There is one draugr in every tomb whose job it is to keep all the lamps, torches, and braziers lit. They are so incredibly grouchy. You have never seen a grouchier zombie.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 19:31 |
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Maybe they're like the candle in Candlehearth Hall that's been burning for 150 years. Some draugr just has to check on it every few centuries or so.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 19:37 |
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My bitching is very short, and very specific. I have just started a new character, and I'm waiting for a certain large scaled reptile to come and interrupt proceedings. Thing is, he's shown up and he's just flying around backwards and screeching and crashing into things like a retard. Everyone's presumably watching the show, and I'm forced to lie with my head on the block watching the headsman breathe heavily at me   (guess where he should be)
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| # ? Feb 3, 2012 21:35 |
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Bold Robot posted:Yeah, not being able to see anything is totally awesome. MY IMMERSION Also, echoing the complaints about the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and Mage college quest lines. The plot for all of them is shamefully similar. The DB was especially a let down as that was my favorite series of quests in Oblivion, and possibly all of the Elder Scrolls games I've played. edit: Oh, and everyone liking and trusting you in general totally poo poo. passionate dongs fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2012 around 23:53 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2012 23:47 |
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So I just started my second game and sided with the imperial legion. I've saved Whiterun from those drat dirty rebels, and now Tulias wants me to report to "the Pale" to talk to some legate. Okay, cool. I leave Solitude and head east. I kill a dragon, a camp of rebels (with an immortal leader, sure why not) and reach the imperial camp. The second I get there, the fight music starts and the legate (not the troops, the legate) charges out of the tent and attack. I beat her soundly after trying the whole surrender thing a couple times, but she's immortal and just stands up. I leave and let my follower fight her, thinking I'll come back later and just wander around for a bit. Turns out every Legate in Skyrim is invincible, and hates me, and now it's impossible for me to continue the questline. Sure I'm glad I put all that time into it.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 02:33 |
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I just wish dragons (well, and everything) didn't get so easy in later levels. I'm playing on the second difficulty level from the top with a character that's not exactly optimized and everything still gets sliced and diced in seconds. I could forgive this happening with bandits and such, but I want dragon fights to make me have to change my shorts every so often. Also wish the two dragons at once encounters happened more often. The one I had was by far the most fun I had in the game. Managed to get them both grounded in such a way that if I backed away from one, the other would fireblast me back in the other direction. Had no healing stuff of any kind left and ultimately had to run up to each, start hacking like made and pray that they didn't kill me in one bite. Edit: And drat it why can't I kill Ulfric and take over Skyrim for the nords without all of the dumb racist bullshit? 
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 03:07 |
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Quiet Feet posted:Edit: And drat it why can't I kill Ulfric and take over Skyrim for the nords without all of the dumb racist bullshit? Ulfric was a depressingly easy fight. I wanted to see if I could end the war, so I walked in, beat the poo poo out of him in a couple of seconds at like, level 10, but he's invincible. So I had to run out of town away from all of his invincible henchmen and respawning guards. : /
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 06:06 |
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So if I'm reading this thread correctly, Skyrim should contain the following to be a better RPG: - Believable emotional attachment to NPCs to justify marriage - Enemies who don't attack you because they are too afraid of you - Dungeons too dark to see anything and navigate - Quests that you can't start or complete because of actions you took earlier - NPCs who hate you and don't trust you enough to give you quests in the first place - A world and story in which you don't play the central role - Playable drums Naw I'm just kidding, Skyrim does have huge glaring faults. If you're going to make me fight ten thousand bandits and zombies at least put in an interesting melee system like Mount&Blade.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 09:00 |
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Artificial Idiocy posted:Naw I'm just kidding, Skyrim does have huge glaring faults. If you're going to make me fight ten thousand bandits and zombies at least put in an interesting melee system like Mount&Blade. If they had an melee system like that I'd never want to play a mage. Or an archer, or a rogue. Now I just want to play Mount and Blade. As said before, you could sum up all those points into "Being more like Morrowind".
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 09:04 |
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"Go see Eorlund up at the forge and get him to craft you a weapon better than... whatever THAT is" *that is a legendary daedric sword*
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 10:03 |
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Brainbread posted:
Fixed that. Also it's all in caps because I had been playing Skyrim and forgot to check capslock. 
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 10:33 |
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Artificial Idiocy posted:- Enemies who don't attack you because they are too afraid of you This actually happened to me yesterday! In Robber's Gorge, most of the bandits attacked me, but there was one who ran away before I could even hit him or anything. He was still hiding when I went to make sure he wouldn't try and backstab me. And I didn't use a fear potion or spell.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 14:16 |
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Brainbread posted:Ulfric was a depressingly easy fight. I wanted to see if I could end the war, so I walked in, beat the poo poo out of him in a couple of seconds at like, level 10, but he's invincible. I sided with the Stormcloaks early on because I wanted to be as Nord as possible, so I didn't get to kill him.  What's extra depressing about this is that I tried to while he was giving his "Raaarrletsoggetdem'perials!" speech outside of solitude. One power attack to the back later and he's still giving his speech as if nothing happened. What could be more awesome than murdering him in front of everyone right before the last battle (too late to turn back) and saying "Okay, we're gonna do things differently from here on out."
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 15:02 |
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Maybe I'm being a baby but I can't get over the way the game tries to make you do everything at once, character preference and even capabilities be damned. My first and only character so far is a pure melee berserker type. Alright, guess I'll join the local Fighter's Guild analogue. But hey, I'm also a member of the Mage's Guild analogue because I visited just once for the main quest, and despite having beaten Alduin, taken Skyrim for the Stormcloaks and being the Harbinger of the Companions, that is what random NPCs comment on. I have a quest item I seemingly can't get rid of without joining the Thieves' Guild. I stumbled upon a quest that gives me the choice between murdering someone I've never heard of and apparently proceed towards joining the Dark Brotherhood or just ignoring its presence in my journal. I had a misc objective to visit this bard's college that I heard about, and the moment I enter the door, I'm asked what I'm there for and I can either say I'm there to join or, if I object to that, hit tab to cancel the conversation. I'm enjoying Skyrim and yet at the same time, it makes me want to just play Morrowind instead. I miss that feeling of being a random stranger in a world where no one necessarily does, or should, give a poo poo about me. No matter where I go in Skyrim, I feel like a sort of designated hero, if that makes sense. Gaining anyone's full trust and confidence is a matter of clearing a dungeon or two, if that, and if it isn't, they're probably a bad guy anyway. Climbing your way to the top of the hierarchy in Morrowind feels like, well... just that. Don't get me wrong, the Companions in Skyrim were fun, but it just felt like yet another series of quests that I applied my Hero Power to. As a guild, something my character can be part of, it felt very unsatisfying. That's not even getting into how the only reason my character with less than 25 in every magic skill isn't archmage is because I'm actively avoiding the College questline. It really doesn't help my feeling of having most everything handed to me on a silver platter just for being the player. gently caress it, I think I'll just go play Morrowind for a bit. Choray fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2012 around 17:29 |
| # ? Feb 4, 2012 16:53 |
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Fixed that. Also it's all in caps because I had been playing Skyrim and forgot to check capslock. Good point. Someone will need to make a port of Morrowind into Skyrim (just like they did with Oblivion). I'll anxiously wait the day ;_;
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 17:53 |
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Choray posted:Maybe I'm being a baby but I can't get over the way the game tries to make you do everything at once, character preference and even capabilities be damned. In the same vein, it annoys the hell out of me when the game basically forces you to do a quest. Not just take on the quest for later, but actually do it. I was on my way to Winterhold because I just felt like exploring and finding neat stuff in the wilderness. That's when I made the mistake of getting too close to Snow Veil Sanctum where the Thieves Guild master has been waiting for me. I really just wanted to gently caress around in the woods and didn't feel like dungeon crawling through draugr. But the game didn't give me a dialogue option to put it off, he started following me, and then I ended up just rushing through it to get the guy away from me. On the plus side, he was at least a good follower and excellent at killing draugr deathlords while I hang back because gently caress those things.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2012 18:10 |
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The game forces quests on you way too often. I guess the design philosophy was to never have the player at a loss for something to do, but it becomes just so much background noise. Every time you enter a new city you're hit by a half-dozen scripted events introducing questlines you really don't care about right now because all you want to do is sell some things. My first visit to Windhelm was a nightmare. Trying to find the shops, I ended up investigating a murder because I wasn't allowed to break script. My options are: Can I help? Or tab out of the conversation and walk away and pretend I didn't see anything. I guess I should have just done that? Honestly the whole scripted events deal is a big sore point for me. It was really neat the first time I was in Whiterun and the Jarl and all the other characters were all having a big conversation. By my fifth character, with the conversation playing out exactly the same as all the other times, it really wears on. You never get any dialogue choices of any value whatsoever. Oh hey, Arcano is grilling me on the College discovery. I'm happy that, no matter which option I choose, this scripted conversation won't turn out any differently and my play experience will be exactly the same as every other character I've sent through the Mages College. Or, you know, you get dialogue options that make NO sense because Bethesda couldn't be bothered to prepare anything for the condition of you NOT seeing a scripted event. On my first visit to Morthal, one of the first people I talked to, my only dialogue option was "I hear Hrongar burned down his house to be with you!" And I'm standing there saying, "What? Who?" In Windhelm you can ask someone "Why did that Dark Elf call you a hero?" It wasn't until my third playthrough I even caught the event where that happens. I kind of hoped that, after New Vegas, Bethesda would have taken some tips from Obsidian on the whole "Maybe the player should actually be able to interact with the game" thing. It's just scripted events that play out the same way over and over again, all leading you up to the one single conclusion Bethesda planned out. After you've played through something once, on your second time through you hardly feel like you're there. No one reacts to you, you can't change anything. Oh god I just realized. They're cutscenes. All the dialogue in this game are FMV cutscenes.
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| # ? Feb 5, 2012 00:58 |
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I've had that Vigilant of Stendarr in Markarth stop me in my tracks and question me about the abandoned house at least 3 times because I just happened to walk too close to him while I wanted to sell stuff. No I don't want to investigate the haunted house right now. To the game's credit, that one at least does give you the dialogue option to put it off.
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| # ? Feb 5, 2012 02:33 |
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If you're going to hide behind your personal possessions, or you pile them all over your crafting tables, then don't get pissed off at me when I accidentally pick one up when I'm trying to click something else. Believe me, there's nothing I'd like less than to have your Potion of Stamina.
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| # ? Feb 5, 2012 06:13 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 06:35 |
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NaturalLow posted:I've had that Vigilant of Stendarr in Markarth stop me in my tracks and question me about the abandoned house at least 3 times because I just happened to walk too close to him while I wanted to sell stuff. No I don't want to investigate the haunted house right now. To the game's credit, that one at least does give you the dialogue option to put it off. A good way to shut up NPC's if you're on the PC is to click on them in the console, and enter "tai". It toggles their AI so they won't approach, follow, or do any thing. Just make sure to re-toggle them if you want to talk to them, because talking to a ai-less NPC locks you in the conversation. Which can be a little messy to escape from.
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| # ? Feb 5, 2012 06:22 |
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