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euroboy posted:Please don't troll. I bet in Norway, sour grapes are a delicacy  England will probably win all pre-games at a canter, then cruise to 3 draws in the group stage
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 10:15 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 22:37 |
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Jose posted:He's not sleeping with Our Cheryl like Cole so I don't care That was the biggest crime committed by a footballer these past few years as far as I'm concerned.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 10:21 |
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Jose posted:Why does anyone anywhere want Terry to play?
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 10:34 |
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I don't think the other options are so bad that we'll do significantly worse than we would do otherwise. Which isn't much anyway. If the FA have any sense (they don't), they'll give the new manager a 2 year contract. Anything else is dumb because the contract should only be renewed after whatever tournament is next Scott Bakula fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 11:08 |
| # ? Feb 10, 2012 10:35 |
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OK, so we need an English manager with a proven track record of success. I've got someone who's been to major finals, holds a UEFA Pro coaching licence (more than Our 'Arry's got) and was appointed CBE a couple of years ago, plus would be an excellent choice in the face of all these imbroglios about race and bigotry. http://www.thefa.com/England/All-Te...ope-Powell.aspx You know it makes sense.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 13:47 |
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She's got too much sense to go anywhere near the EMNT job.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 13:57 |
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Would love to see the DMs reaction to having a Black Lesbian in charge of Are Brave Lions
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 14:00 |
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Ferdinand and Terry are CBs though
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 14:06 |
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Trin Tragula posted:OK, so we need an English manager with a proven track record of success. I've got someone who's been to major finals, holds a UEFA Pro coaching licence (more than Our 'Arry's got) and was appointed CBE a couple of years ago, plus would be an excellent choice in the face of all these imbroglios about race and bigotry. This came up on another forum too, I'd have loved to have seen her given the friendly just to get the "First x to x" crap out of the way.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 14:55 |
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I'm constantly amazed by peoples stupid opinions regarding who is and who isn't good enough to play international football, apparently players who are regarded as some of the best in the Premier League aren't good enough. Holland managed to do perfectly fine and reach the final with a backline of Van Der Wiel, Heitinga, Mathijsen and Van Bronckhorst. I'm pretty sure Richards, Jags/Smalling Lescott/Jones Baines/Cole is just as good a backline if it's actually managed properly and the team know what its doing.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:26 |
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Holland also didn't play a decent side until the final.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:35 |
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Yeah, Brazil was a poo poo team.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:39 |
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euroboy posted:Yeah, Brazil was a poo poo team. Uruguay too. Done nothing since...
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:44 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:Holland also didn't play a decent side until the final. Brazil were tournament favourites at the time, and they beat Uruguay who were also a strong team. And all the attacking stars of Spain didn't score for 120 minutes whilst Robben hosed up two one on ones in normal time.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:44 |
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euroboy posted:Yeah, Brazil was a poo poo team. Brazil's 2010 stint was pretty much equal to England's in that the first decent team they'd meet in the knockouts would get them. Mickolution posted:Uruguay too. Done nothing since... You mean the team that only got in the semis because Gyan is poo poo at penalties?
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:47 |
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my dad never tires of telling me how lovely the 1986 argentinian squad were apart from maradona
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:48 |
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Ravel posted:Brazil were tournament favourites at the time, and they beat Uruguay who were also a strong team. Brazil were never favorites, Argentina and Germany were, with the Netherlands as outsiders. They'd been poo poo since 2007. And surely the Netherlands had more attacking power than Spain with Sneijder, Kuyt, Van Persie and Robben (altough they all were quasi-injured or whatever) compared to Villa, Cesc and Torres. If anything it's a sneaky goal that got through the untested dogshit defense that got them in the end.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 17:59 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:Brazil's 2010 stint was pretty much equal to England's in that the first decent team they'd meet in the knockouts would get them. I don't accept this, that was an excellent Brazil side who looked very much like they'd removed their attachment to egos whilst gaining real defensive steel. They were definitely favourites going in to face a Holland side who had looked nothing like as convincing as the virtually identical 2008 line up. Brazil also won the Confederations Cup and lol and all that but Spain couldn't be bothered to do it. quote:Brazil were never favorites, Argentina and Germany were, with the Netherlands as outsiders. They'd been poo poo since 2007. And there is no loving way that an Argentina side with a misfiring megastar, a coke-addled manager and ONE central midfielder was ever going to do poo poo.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:20 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:You mean the team that only got in the semis because Gyan is poo poo at penalties? Well there were only really two teams at the tournament who were top class and they met in the other semi, but to say Holland didn't meet a good team until the final is laughable.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:22 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:Brazil were never favorites, Argentina and Germany were, with the Netherlands as outsiders. They'd been poo poo since 2007. More like Spain and Germany. I don't know anyone who seriously thought a Maradona-led Argentina was going to win the tournament.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:25 |
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Psybro posted:I don't accept this, that was an excellent Brazil side who looked very much like they'd removed their attachment to egos whilst gaining real defensive steel. They were definitely favourites going in to face a Holland side who had looked nothing like as convincing as the virtually identical 2008 line up. Every team would look like it hadd gained defensive steel against North Korea. For what I said about the Netherlands, their forwards are scary no matter what. quote:And there is no loving way that an Argentina side with a misfiring megastar, a coke-addled manager and ONE central midfielder was ever going to do poo poo. Give Argentina the Netherlands' run and they'd make it to at least the semis. Where they were in the bracket they'd bump into what's pretty much a world cup final whoever won the other games (except the Paraguay-Japan game). They didn't have the hardest run up to that game but you're making it seem like they'd flop dead immediately. Mr. Big Snacks posted:More like Spain and Germany. I don't know anyone who seriously thought a Maradona-led Argentina was going to win the tournament. Spain were hoping they wouldn't choke after the group stages like they usually do, let alone winning the entire thing.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:46 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:Spain were hoping they wouldn't choke in the group stages like they usually do, let alone winning the entire thing. Well considering they had won the Euros (a more difficult tournament to win) just two years before, it wasn't exactly a long shot to call them the favorites. Which they were.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:47 |
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People have very short memories. Brazil were comfortable favourites going into 2010, with Spain close behind. The other teams barely got a mention.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:51 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:Every team would look like it hadd gained defensive steel against North Korea. For what I said about the Netherlands, their forwards are scary no matter what. Brazil had acquitted themselves well in qualifying against the same set of teams they failed to do so against two years later at Copa America. Argentina had flopped around like a dying whale before Uruguay horrendously bottled their final qualifier and let them into the last automatic spot.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:53 |
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Mr. Big Snacks posted:Well considering they had won the Euros (a more difficult tournament to win) just two years before, it wasn't exactly a long shot to call them the favorites. Which they were. By your logic Greece were favorites in 2006. Winning the Euros means gently caress all because the World Cup is such a different tournament. Spain's World Cup record could never make them favorites in 2010.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:53 |
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lol you're seriously arguing Spain weren't favourites and Argentina were
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:57 |
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I imagine everybody thought Spain looked good but would bottle it, as they had done in every tournament ever
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:59 |
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Brazil were definitely among the favourites. Here are the pre-tournament odds from the Telegraph: Spain: 9/2 Brazi: 11/2 England: 6/1 lol Argentina: 11/1 Italy: 13/1 Germany: 14/1 Holland: 16/1
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 18:59 |
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I have a theory that England are only ever that high in odds (4th best odds to win the upcoming Euros!) because a whole bunch of unrealistic people bet on them every time and drag the odds down.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:01 |
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xXlpffrtlXx posted:Brazil were never favorites, Argentina and Germany were, with the Netherlands as outsiders. They'd been poo poo since 2007. No they were definitely favourites. Spain were up there too but they're also a nation of bottlers who had won the European cup by a single Torres goal (who had completely died in South Africa) and scraped past Italy on penalties. Their core Barcelona team had just been unceremoniously dumped out of the Champions League by Inter and what's more, they had just lost to Switzerland and proceeded to scrape past Paraguay and Muller-less Germany in the knockouts.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:04 |
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Jose posted:lol you're seriously arguing Spain weren't favourites and Argentina were Spain had bottled in every tournament since the 80s up until 2008. How is it unreasonable to assume that a decent Argentina (even if Maradona is the worst coach) would get at least a medal.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:04 |
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vyelkin posted:I have a theory that England are only ever that high in odds (4th best odds to win the upcoming Euros!) because a whole bunch of unrealistic people bet on them every time and drag the odds down. England's odds outside of England were at least twice as long I assume.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:04 |
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The argentina who barely qualified
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:05 |
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Maybe the lesson from all this discussion about who were pre-tournament favorites and who weren't is that a lot of things can happen in a tournament and that people can twist the lead-up, dynamics, and results of a cup tournament to fit whatever preconceptions they had about their own team in the first place. Going back to the beloved EMNT, Capello didn't do himself any favors with choices he made for the WC finals, but I think a lot of posters here have made good cases on how he was also dealing with unrealistic expectations and was perhaps hamstrung by interference (or at least extreme pressure) to field a suboptimal batch of players.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:10 |
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Jose posted:The argentina who barely qualified Four points safe off a play-off spot while going basically solo is not 'barely' qualifying. CONMEBOL qualifying is also way different than UEFA qualifying because you play all the teams, even the top teams (which Brazil were in 2007).
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:11 |
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Dunga's Brazil was very highly lauded for being strong in the back, clinical up front and ruthless on set pieces. They had a very strong showing leading up to the World Cup as well. The wheels just sort of fell off during the tournament/they were a bit unlucky. No one really expected anything from Maradona's laughable managerial skills.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:13 |
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Remember when Maradona had the team land hours before the match at a stadium 3000+ meters above sea level thinking it would stop the players tiring out from the lower oxygen. With quality management like that everyone thought they were favourites
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:15 |
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HinderedUseless posted:Dunga's Brazil was very highly lauded for being strong in the back, clinical up front and ruthless on set pieces. They had a very strong showing leading up to the World Cup as well. The wheels just sort of fell off during the tournament/they were a bit unlucky. No one really expected anything from Maradona's laughable managerial skills. Dunga was also getting a lot of poo poo back home for not playing the "Brazilian way," but I thought that was a good way of avoiding what had hampered Brazil in the past whenever they played a stronger team. I'm not sure why everyone lost their heads during that last game against the Netherlands (and Melo being Melo didn't help), but I felt bad for Dunga when I saw it because I would have liked to see him prove all those lame purists wrong.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:16 |
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Jose posted:Remember when Maradona had the team land hours before the match at a stadium 3000+ meters above sea level thinking it would stop the players tiring out from the lower oxygen. Klinsmann had done similar weird poo poo with Germany when they got 3rd in 2006. Managers in international competitions literally Do Not Matter apart from choosing the lads who are coming with him.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:19 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 22:37 |
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TyChan posted:Dunga was also getting a lot of poo poo back home for not playing the "Brazilian way," but I thought that was a good way of avoiding what had hampered Brazil in the past whenever they played a stronger team. I'm not sure why everyone lost their heads during that last game against the Netherlands (and Melo being Melo didn't help), but I felt bad for Dunga when I saw it because I would have liked to see him prove all those lame purists wrong. If Stekelenburg doesn't make an absolutely class save against Kaka?, Brazil goes up 2-0 and probably win that game.
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| # ? Feb 10, 2012 19:29 |
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