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willkill4food posted:Shawcross would get found out quickly playing in a side that didn't park the bus. Guessing he already knows how good Lescott is.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 14:27 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 10:42 |
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Eric Cantona posted:Guessing he already knows how good Lescott is. Is Lescott any good though? I was under the impression he was getting a lot more protection at City then he has in the past with all their defensive midfielders sitting in front of the defense, making him look a lot better than he is. Haven't watched a lot of City so I am
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 14:42 |
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What style of CB is Cahill? More finesse or physical? I haven't watched him play much.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 14:42 |
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willkill4food posted:Shawcross would get found out quickly playing in a side that didn't park the bus. There are a few mitigating factors for Stoke's shocking record and I don't feel it accurately reflects how good Shawcross actually is. I know suggesting some chelsea plastic watch poo poo midtable clogfests is insane but perhaps you should.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 14:49 |
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Byolante posted:There are a few mitigating factors for Stoke's shocking record and I don't feel it accurately reflects how good Shawcross actually is. I know suggesting some chelsea plastic watch poo poo midtable clogfests is insane but perhaps you should. Shawcross is a good CB for Stoke and Stoke's system. If you think England should play that sort of style then Shawcross makes sense. Otherwise why not call up a player who is going to be more comfortable on the ball and used to defending outside of his own box? Calling up Shawcross is just going to end in tears when he forgets to cover for his fullback after years of having his fullback at his side for 90 minutes.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 15:01 |
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nictigre03 posted:What style of CB is Cahill? More finesse or physical? I haven't watched him play much. Is donkey a style?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 15:01 |
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I do it donkey style.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 15:03 |
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nictigre03 posted:What style of CB is Cahill? More finesse or physical? I haven't watched him play much. loving sloooooowwwwwww
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 15:12 |
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willkill4food posted:Shawcross is a good CB for Stoke and Stoke's system. If you think England should play that sort of style then Shawcross makes sense. Again you clearly haven't been watching Stoke play at all. he is deceptively quick and ready to get wide.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 15:40 |
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Byolante posted:Again you clearly haven't been watching Stoke play at all. he is deceptively quick and ready to get wide. I am not arguing that he is not a good player. But unless Pulis is the next England manager, the CB position for England is going to be drastically different from the CB position for Stoke. Shawcross might be able to adapt, but why would any manager call up a player who plays in a completely different system week in and week out in hopes they adapt in the short time the national team has together?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:13 |
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willkill4food posted:Shawcross might be able to adapt, but why would any manager call up a player who plays in a completely different system week in and week out in hopes they adapt in the short time the national team has together? You mean like every other player in the England squad does anyway?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:14 |
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John Terry is a great ball playing defender isn't he?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:15 |
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Fat Guy Sexting posted:You mean like every other player in the England squad does anyway? Not really, all of the fullbacks who were called up get forward. All of the CBs called up are used to defending higher up the pitch. All of the strikers called up are used to having balls played into their feet.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:19 |
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Jose posted:John Terry is a great ball playing defender isn't he? I'm under the impression Cahill is a more natural replacement for Terry, no?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:35 |
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willkill4food posted:Shawcross would get found out quickly playing in a side that didn't park the bus. Lescott just got called up to replace Glen Johnson who is  injured
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:41 |
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willkill4food posted:Not really, all of the fullbacks who were called up get forward. All of the CBs called up are used to defending higher up the pitch. All of the strikers called up are used to having balls played into their feet. Here is the thing. We know for a fact England doesn't have the sort of players we need to go out and try to play that sort of game against the Germanies and Spains of the world so we may as well start playing more pragmatic instead of packing the midfield with CAMs and hoping for the best.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 16:55 |
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Lescott and Shawcross would probably be the best CB pairing for England right now.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:11 |
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Byolante posted:Here is the thing. We know for a fact England doesn't have the sort of players we need to go out and try to play that sort of game against the Germanies and Spains of the world so we may as well start playing more pragmatic instead of packing the midfield with CAMs and hoping for the best. But Pearce and then Redknapp are not going to play that way, so Shawcross should stay at home.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:14 |
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pik_d posted:Lescott just got called up to replace Glen Johnson who is fuckin yes
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:18 |
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willkill4food posted:But Pearce and then Redknapp are not going to play that way, so Shawcross should stay at home. On the other hand Shawcross has more experience playing in Europe than Gary Cahill so surely he should be ahead of him in the squad? You're talking poo poo anyway, if Shawcross was only capable of defending from the edge of the 18 yard box and further back then why would Ferguson regularly talk about it being a mistake to let him leave United? If every manager took your logic to its conclusion nobody would ever buy a player from a smaller club because surely they can't be good enough for a big team or they would playing for one!
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:41 |
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Anime Panties posted:loving sloooooowwwwwww He's actually quite quick for a centre half. vyelkin posted:Lescott and Shawcross would probably be the best CB pairing for England right now. Going purely by form this season it should be Lescott and Smalling.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:53 |
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Scikar posted:On the other hand Shawcross has more experience playing in Europe than Gary Cahill so surely he should be ahead of him in the squad? I am sure that if Shawcross were to move to a club that didn't play like Stoke he could adjust. It might take a little while but he would get it. The issue is that it would take longer than the couple weeks that England have to train prior to Euro 2012. That is why he should stay at home.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:58 |
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willkill4food posted:I am sure that if Shawcross were to move to a club that didn't play like Stoke he could adjust. It might take a little while but he would get it. The issue is that it would take longer than the couple weeks that England have to train prior to Euro 2012. That is why he should stay at home. England aren't going to play like Man Utd either, should we send all the United players home?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 17:59 |
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Scikar posted:England aren't going to play like Man Utd either, should we send all the United players home? Man Utd right now play much closer to how England will look under Redknapp than Stoke do. If it was a good Stoke fullback that we were talking about would you still be lobbying for his selection? Hopefully not since fullbacks in Pulis' system do not get forward, which is pretty important to most other sides. Pretending that all players with CB or MF next to their name are the same is how England ended up with Gerrard and Lampard paired in midfield.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:11 |
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Stoke don't even play with full backs in a modern sense - just four centre halves strung along the width of the penalty area, daring the opposition to cross the ball into the box because they have three 6'3" guys waiting for it.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:12 |
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willkill4food posted:Man Utd right now play much closer to how England will look under Redknapp than Stoke do. The Lampard/Gerrard problem had nothing to do with them adjusting, it was to do with the fact they're both utterly crap at being holding midfielders, and even if they had adjusted it would still not work. Shawcross is actually good at doing everything you say he can't do, and would therefore have no difficulty adjusting. You're talking rubbish.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:14 |
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willkill4food posted:Pretending that all players with CB or MF next to their name are the same is how England ended up with Gerrard and Lampard paired in midfield. Haha yes, you make sweeping generalisations about players based on the colour of shirt they wear on a Saturday, but it's me who doesn't understand that all players are individually different. Nice one.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:17 |
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Spangly A posted:The Lampard/Gerrard problem had nothing to do with them adjusting, it was to do with the fact they're both utterly crap at being holding midfielders, and even if they had adjusted it would still not work. Shawcross is actually good at doing everything you say he can't do, and would therefore have no difficulty adjusting. You're talking rubbish. Liverpool have been trying to get Carragher to stop punting the ball down the pitch for the past decade it seems, I don't think Shawcross is going to learn in a week. Shawcross is a good defender, but there is no evidence he can perform at a top level in any other system besides Pulis'. You might as well be calling for Rooney and Jones to play in midfield because they can run a lot and tackle and pass.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:24 |
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Given Chelsea's completely inability to adapt to a high defensive line its not surprising that wk4f thinks that players are incapable of adapting to new tactics.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:27 |
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willkill4food posted:I am sure that if Shawcross were to move to a club that didn't play like Stoke he could adjust. It might take a little while but he would get it. The issue is that it would take longer than the couple weeks that England have to train prior to Euro 2012. That is why he should stay at home. Even if you weren't talking literal bullshit there's probably some friendly matches where ex Manchester United youth player Ryan Shawcross could learn to play The England Way.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:27 |
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Pulis' system of full backs hinders the defence more than helps them. Throughout most of the season we've played Woodgate at right back, who has no positional sense there and he doesn't have the pace to get him out of trouble. If not for Shawcross and Huth doing his job for him we would have conceded a shitload more this season.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:37 |
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thehappyprince posted:Even if you weren't talking literal bullshit there's probably some friendly matches where ex Manchester United youth player Ryan Shawcross could learn to play The England Way. But what if he relapsed to Stoke tactics in the middle of an important Euro match?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:39 |
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willkill4food posted:But what if he relapsed to Stoke tactics in the middle of an important Euro match? We can enjoy a 10 a side
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:44 |
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I don't even know why people are replying to willkill4food.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 18:48 |
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Meat Wagon posted:Pulis' system of full backs hinders the defence more than helps them. Throughout most of the season we've played Woodgate at right back, who has no positional sense there and he doesn't have the pace to get him out of trouble. If not for Shawcross and Huth doing his job for him we would have conceded a shitload more this season. Huth is a really good example of exactly what I am talking about. He is an amazing CB in Pulis' system, yet he has not recieved a cap since 2009. Germany didn't even called him up for the friendly against France with Mertesacker and Friedrich out of the squad. I think Low realizes that Huth would not be a good fit for how Germany play. England are not Germany and don't play the same, but the idea that you call up players who play similar to how you want to play isn't rocket science.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 19:03 |
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Shawcross is a solid defender but to include a player of his caliber in an England side is admitting that getting out of the groups is the ultimate aim for the side. Time and time again we've seen that the center-back position for top teams has evolved to necessitate both a high level o ball playing skills and an interception-based style of play over a tackle-based one. England just doesn't have the players at the moment to aim above the quarters at the absolute best.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 19:14 |
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I Am Patriarchy posted:Shawcross is a solid defender but to include a player of his caliber in an England side is admitting that getting out of the groups is the ultimate aim for the side. Time and time again we've seen that the center-back position for top teams has evolved to necessitate both a high level o ball playing skills and an interception-based style of play over a tackle-based one. I admittedly haven't seen much of Cahill at his best at Bolton, but between Cahill and Shawcross right now, I would have gone with Shawcross. Without Ferdinand, who is supposed to be the "ball-playing" centre-back for England?
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 19:23 |
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TyChan posted:I admittedly haven't seen much of Cahill at his best at Bolton, but between Cahill and Shawcross right now, I would have gone with Shawcross. Smalling.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 19:25 |
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Eric Cantona posted:Smalling.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 19:30 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 10:42 |
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Paperhouse posted:still a bit inexperienced and inconsistent though. He will be fantastic, but I don't think he's ready to be a rock at the back for the Euros this year. Then again, it could be worth just playing him anyway because he has the talent Name a better English ball playing centreback that isn't Ferdinand.
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| # ? Feb 28, 2012 19:31 |
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