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The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Reminder that Ron Gilbert is still the best:


Also this is relevant:

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the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005



emoticon posted:

Sure, okay. So is selling 9.3 million copies of CoD3 on the first day, $1 billion dollars in sales the first week or so.

Spending a Lot of Money on Advertising to sell the Latest Iteration a Popular Franchise is not really "unprecedented" in the way I'm using it here.

Besson
Apr 20, 2006

To the sun's savage brightness he exposed the dark and secret surface of his retinas, so that by burning the memory of vengeance might be preserved, and never perish.

Gamers are weird. On one hand, they bemoan the lack of originality in video games.Yet, when something like this happens, people demand that we get a new DotT or Grim Fandango.

The old games are fine as they are. If we wanted Tim to just do sequels, we would never have had some of the great games he made in the most recent era of his career.

Plus, Double Fine rocks at creating worlds and characters. The more universes they create, the better.

COUNTIN THE BILLIES
Jan 8, 2006




This reminds me of Radiohead's idea in 07, the pay what you want plan. And I think it's great but it only works if you're a well-known brand like Radiohead or Tim Schafter. I don't think it's going to change the industry that much unless you're popular enough to dictate terms.

Now the hard part begins with creating an adventure game that fits that budget. Is ~$1mil the average budget in developing a video game? I have no idea.

COUNTIN THE BILLIES fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 01:39

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who say they have found it.


Dorepoll posted:

Yet, when something like this happens, people demand that we get a new DotT or Grim Fandango.

I would hope those people are just the incredibly vocal minority.

Most are just happy to have something new by Tim Schafer.

Spiky Ooze
Oct 27, 2005


DEAD MAN'S SHOE posted:

I loved psychonauts, DOTT etc so bad and I hope this encourages them to do bigger and bigger projects in the same way.

Well this might just convince them smaller is better to be honest. That wouldn't be the worst thing honestly. The game industry needs a lot of change, from the crazy grind of 4+ years to make publisher-driven 'big' products, to a gender bias that's pretty huge, to lack of appreciation for even network TV level quality storytelling.

I think there was no chance in hell of making a real network of alternatives pop up in the normal system but crowd funded games have amazing potential.

Davoren
Aug 14, 2003

The devil you say!



What the gently caress? I only just noticed this thread and they already have a million dollars? Is this for real?

theblackw0lf
Apr 14, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

Cost of other Tim Schafer games, to put this in perspective.

Monkey Island-$150,000
Full Throttle-$1,000,000
Psychonauts-$15,000,000
Brutal Legend-$24,000,000

Granted some of the costs are costs incurred through using a publisher, like publisher salaries.

I would say that to make a AAA adventure game nowadays it would run around 10 million.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


Davoren posted:

What the gently caress? I only just noticed this thread and they already have a million dollars? Is this for real?


No. It's all a dream. You'll wake up and check and it will be 3 million.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



theblackw0lf posted:

Cost of other Tim Schafer games, to put this in perspective.

Monkey Island-$150,000
Full Throttle-$1,000,000
Psychonauts-$15,000,000
Brutal Legend-$24,000,000

Granted some of the costs are costs incurred through using a publisher, like publisher salaries.

I would say that to make a AAA adventure game nowadays it would run around 10 million.

I'm curious what Telltale runs since they reuse a lot of assets. Monkey Island and Full Throttle required heavy modifications to SCUMM and Psychonauts and Brutal Legend used custom built engines which is expensive as gently caress.

Psychonauts and Brutal Legend had horribly problematic development cycles. Psychonauts took something like 4 years to develop and they lost Microsoft as a publisher before being picked up by lovely Majesco. Brutal Legend started as a multiplayer game, was forced into a single-player Guitar Hero tie-in by Activision, shelved for a year, then picked up by EA later. Trenched and the later titles probably cost considerably less without all the publisher fuckings that went on with those two games.

Gutcruncher
Apr 16, 2005

Go home and be a family man!


al-azad posted:

Brutal Legend started as a multiplayer game, was forced into a single-player Guitar Hero tie-in by Activision, shelved for a year, then picked up by EA later. Trenched and the later titles probably cost considerably less without all the publisher fuckings that went on with those two games.

Id imagine all that licensed music is a big part of what drove up the budget, too.

YorexTheMad
Apr 16, 2007
OBAMA IS A FALSE MESSIAH

ABANDON ALL HOPE

r1ngwthszzors posted:

Is all of the money getting invested into the project?

For 15 bucks, you get the game which translates to basically a "lost sale" for all the alpha funders. How does that work?

I can't read Tim Schafer's mind, but this may not matter as much for this particular project. Lost sales matter when you're needing to recoup money to pay off your initial investment. With Kickstarter, they have enough money to guarantee they won't lose anything developing the game, because it's already been paid for; there's no initial investment to pay off and no risk of a loss by Double Fine. They get to make (presumably) a game with a new IP that they will wholly own and can develop on their own terms, and any actual sales they make upon release are just money in the bank.

frumpsnake
Jan 30, 2001

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil.

It's not a lost sale when the alternative was to never get the game off the ground in the process. From the sound of it, it's very much a side project, with the rest of Double Fine performing their regular duties on something else. Ron Gilbert is working on a separate game, for instance.

But let's assume that the the 15,166 backers who coughed up $15 are lost sales. There are still 13,360 who pledged $30 or more for a grand total of $834,800, thanks to the expensive higher tiers. Take out $15x13360 and its still $634k of profit. The $100 backers alone have covered the cost of giving the game for free to the $15 donaters.

If the backers weren't investing in something, and the game simply went up on Steam, and the standard edition was $15 and the "Deluxe edition" with nothing more than a soundtrack and downloadable documentary double the price, do you really think almost half of gamers would choose the $30 option?

frumpsnake fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 02:39

hellocruelworld
Feb 28, 2003

Dude, I See God!

I'm not quite understanding the "$15 is a lost sale" thing. Considering that's probably around how much the game would be priced anyway, couldn't those $15 purchases be simply considered pre-orders?

*Donated $30 here, I had to resist the urge to give more.

hellocruelworld fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 04:00

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Oh super wow! That looks like a tasty thing for me to eat with my excellent beak!


Yeah, I don't even understand what r1ngwthszzors means by "lost sale"

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Assuming pre-orders account for maybe 10% of a game's lifelong sales, then the 15,000 kickstarter backers who pledged the bare minimum for the game are probably 1% of the lifelong sales. Considering the ignorance of how Kickstarter works in general (I'm investing but getting nothing in return/why should I foot the bill for a theoretical project/My rear end itches/blahblahblah), there's probably a huge audience of potential buyers who are in the "wait and see" crowd. Either way, they've doubled their goal and then some. Any "lost sale" can be written off immediately.

suesehT
Nov 18, 2000


They aren't lost sales either. A publisher may offer a royalty per unit of 15%. Now this is per unit minus retail and distributor cuts, and cost of goods. So this may be as little in real terms as $5 per unit. However, a developer generally won't see a penny if this until the dev advance cost has been recouped, using that royalty amount per unit, meaning that once released if the game cost $1,000,000 to make, the developer won't see a penny until it has sold ~400,000 copies (assuming cost of goods, retail and distribution is %50 of retail - guessing). By this point the publisher has brought in $5.5m from their initial $1m investment.

So, fully funded from day 1, with pure profit (minus Steam's share). That's pretty good really.

Games don't cost 1m to make, and as such generally do not recoup. It's the same with the book publishing and music industry so far as I'm aware too.

suesehT fucked around with this message at Feb 10, 2012 around 03:05

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


I don't even like adventure games but I'm sure the documentary alone will be worth $15.

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

Oh super wow! That looks like a tasty thing for me to eat with my excellent beak!


suesehT posted:

So, fully funded from day 1, with pure profit (minus Steam's share). That's pretty good really.
Don't forget Kickstarter and Amazon's share too. Kickstarter gets a flat 5% of the money and Amazon takes 3-5% in credit processing fees that go to the credit card company or whoever originates the payment.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq...%20project#Fees

Fatkraken
Jun 23, 2005

Fun-time is over.

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

Don't forget Kickstarter and Amazon's share too. Kickstarter gets a flat 5% of the money and Amazon takes 3-5% in credit processing fees.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq...%20project#Fees

Sure, but if the proportion LOST in processing fees is similar to the the amount the devs would actually GET once the publisher and distribution network took their cut, that's really not half bad.

Mirdini
Jan 14, 2012



Tossed my $30 in, just happy to contribute to (hopefully) a new Schafer game happening - and the documentary's going to be worth that in & of itself in my opinion.

Pretty amazed and happy at the support people have thrown at it - sure, it might not spark a revolution in game funding with the way game budgets have exploded in the past decade but that wasn't the point of the project in the first place.

Sputty
Mar 20, 2005



Fatkraken posted:

Sure, but if the proportion LOST in processing fees is similar to the the amount the devs would actually GET once the publisher and distribution network took their cut, that's really not half bad.

Publishers and distribution get a lot more than 5-8%. Likely, Publisher gets most or all of the money except for contracts with developers that amount to bonuses or percentages and distributors probably get between 10-30%. Retail might get more than that but I'm not sure exactly.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004
CLICK ON MY AMAZON ASSOCIATES LINKS


retail - almost always close to exactly 20%, they have a lot of overhead costs involved with brick and mortar
distribution - 4-12%
publisher - everything else, minus packaging, marketing and overhead etc
developer - whatever the publisher will give them. this varies widely and can be a fixed amount, too.

Cream_Filling
Sep 11, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT RACISM BECAUSE I KNOW A WHOLE LOT MORE ABOUT THEM COLOREDS THAN YOU

suesehT posted:

They aren't lost sales either. A publisher may offer a royalty per unit of 15%. Now this is per unit minus retail and distributor cuts, and cost of goods. So this may be as little in real terms as $5 per unit. However, a developer generally won't see a penny if this until the dev advance cost has been recouped, using that royalty amount per unit, meaning that once released if the game cost $1,000,000 to make, the developer won't see a penny until it has sold ~400,000 copies (assuming cost of goods, retail and distribution is %50 of retail - guessing). By this point the publisher has brought in $5.5m from their initial $1m investment.

So, fully funded from day 1, with pure profit (minus Steam's share). That's pretty good really.

Games don't cost 1m to make, and as such generally do not recoup. It's the same with the book publishing and music industry so far as I'm aware too.

Don't forget $million+ administrative fees on recoupment costs and, worst of all, IP rights. That last one is the killer.

hellocruelworld
Feb 28, 2003

Dude, I See God!

God, this thing is at over $1,134,000 and still going? What do you all think this thing will top out at?

Seriously I think this is amazing and I am very excited about this project. I hope they spend more on the game than documentary though.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

hellocruelworld posted:

God, this thing is at over $1,134,000 and still going? What do you all think this thing will top out at?

Seriously I think this is amazing and I am very excited about this project. I hope they spend more on the game than documentary though.

Under 2 mil, betting the 1.6 to 1.8 mil range.

Gutcruncher
Apr 16, 2005

Go home and be a family man!


hellocruelworld posted:

God, this thing is at over $1,134,000 and still going? What do you all think this thing will top out at?

Seriously I think this is amazing and I am very excited about this project. I hope they spend more on the game than documentary though.

In the pitch video Tim said he needed 30k for the game, and 10k for the documentors. Not only was the game the main focus of the money to begin with, but I doubt that more money to work on the game equals more work for the documentary guys, so chances are theyll still be getting 10k no matter what.

hellocruelworld
Feb 28, 2003

Dude, I See God!

Irish Taxi Driver posted:

Under 2 mil, betting the 1.6 to 1.8 mil range.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think that the upcoming media hype is going to get them to 2.5 mil. People are still donating at a pretty high rate. The donations increased by another $9,000 since my last post. I don't expect this success to be repeated anytime soon however.

Gaph
May 15, 2007



Irish Taxi Driver posted:

Under 2 mil, betting the 1.6 to 1.8 mil range.

With another 31 days to go?

hellocruelworld
Feb 28, 2003

Dude, I See God!

Gaph posted:

With another 31 days to go?

To be fair to the previous poster, you have to expect a decline at some point. I think he is low-balling however.

Hostile Rabbi
Jun 25, 2005


It's probably not going to slow down until a week or so from now. Media coverage is just getting started. Kickstarter is a fairly well known site, and this just broke all their records.

It seems like they could raise $2-3 million.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


r1ngwthszzors posted:

Do I hear ISOMETRIC RPG?

http://twitter.com/#!/ChrisAvellone...668841458040832

Chris Avellone starts kickstarter to make a game, is sadly crushed under the metric ton of dollar, dollar bills I dump on him.

Meowjesty
Oct 23, 2009

Friends depend on each other.


Dan Didio posted:

Chris Avellone starts kickstarter to make a game, is sadly crushed under the metric ton of dollar, dollar bills I dump on him.

It's okay we can use the money I'd dump on him to rebuild him. Or put his brain in a jar and hook it up to a computer.

Avellone.

Crappy Jack
Nov 21, 2005

We got some serious shit to discuss.



I bet a sudden influx of a million dollars can change the nature of a man.

Vincent
Nov 25, 2005

Wisdom of Solomon.
Strength of Hercules.
Soul of Townshend.

Gaspar Lewis posted:

Executive Producer

Visit http://www.doublefine.com/ohmygodthankyou for the full list!

Special Thanks

No seriously do you want this to take longer than you spent playing the game?

Maybe they could do it like the 1 minute movie and include the documentary on the credits.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

hellocruelworld posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think that the upcoming media hype is going to get them to 2.5 mil. People are still donating at a pretty high rate. The donations increased by another $9,000 since my last post. I don't expect this success to be repeated anytime soon however.

Gaph posted:

With another 31 days to go?

hellocruelworld posted:

To be fair to the previous poster, you have to expect a decline at some point. I think he is low-balling however.

Maybe I'm expecting the decline too early. I'm just assuming that everyone who was super interested already donated, but if its still jumping like crazy I'll go with under 2.5 million.

helopticor
Sep 21, 2004


Irish Taxi Driver posted:

Maybe I'm expecting the decline too early. I'm just assuming that everyone who was super interested already donated

I didn't even hear about it until a few hours ago, so we'll just have to wait and see.

redweird
Aug 6, 2009


If this breaks 2 million I expect Tim Schaefer to act out all the parts, and I expect it to be rotoscoped.

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

The man was stunningly well dressed. He had a smart looking jacket, and a really neat looking cape, the lining of which was shimmering and sparkling in more than Oriental splendour, which is a great deal of splendour indeed, just ask Kipling.

Lots of People posted:

Bunch of stuff about Chris Avellone and Planescape Torment 2 or whatever other RPG

This is a thing to which I would contribute some money because that was my favourite game for the longest time.

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Nickoten
Oct 16, 2005
Yojimbo

Holy poo poo, this was at 600,000 when I went to sleep last night and nearly double that when I woke up. I love Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert and I'm glad this is working out for them. I think this really shows what kind of impact this could have on the (in this case only slightly) bigger players in industry, too, not just the indie scene.

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