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Quest For Glory II posted:Does this mean I can finally poo poo on Obsidian and their janky-rear end games In the case of New Vegas, it took them a month of patches to get it in working order, and it was clearly the publisher that dropped the ball. There has been far greater disasters in recent history. That said, we will have to see how Pillars of Eternity works out, I have heard some mixed reviews of it. If it comes out half-baked, I think that would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me as far as crowd-funding. I guess Torment looks good, but who knows.
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Dec 9, 2014 01:53
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Ardennes posted:In the case of New Vegas, it took them a month of patches to get it in working order, and it was clearly the publisher that dropped the ball. There has been far greater disasters in recent history. Pillars of Eternity is highly promising right now. What is in the process of being fixed and tweaked is character development, combat and overall bugs. The director is a goon and he's really help sell all the creative decisions and changes Obsidian has made with the Infinity Engine formula.
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Dec 9, 2014 02:05
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Pillars of Eternity is highly promising right now. What is in the process of being fixed and tweaked is character development, combat and overall bugs. The director is a goon and he's really help sell all the creative decisions and changes Obsidian has made with the Infinity Engine formula. I am still cautiously optimistic, and hopefully the extra time will be well spent. That said, I think for me, the make or break part will be the characters and the overall world. I didn't mind much of the jank in New Vegas because I think Obsidian just pulled that world off so much better than Bethesda did and hell I still think Fallout 3 is a pretty decent game. Granted, I am one of the few people that liked Dead Money too.
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Dec 9, 2014 02:22
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Ardennes posted:Granted, I am one of the few people that liked Dead Money too.  You are not alone! It's my favourite part of the whole game!Obsidian's games have at least been all interesting, if not always actually great games. I don't really know if I ever want to play another giant RPG in the vein of the old eternity engine games, but at least it's not D&D so I'm at least looking forward to both PoE and Torment.
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Dec 9, 2014 02:44
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:The biggest criticism of Double Fine and Space Base is that Valve released a new set of rules for early access several of which the unritten addition of this means YOU Double Fine was almost impossible to ignore. Double Fine is far from the first or only developer to abandon development of an Early Access game. It's really more akin to "this means YOU Paranautical Activity/Towns devs"
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Dec 9, 2014 02:58
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Pirate Jet posted:Double Fine is far from the first or only developer to abandon development of an Early Access game. /nearly every single other game in Early Access. There have been much bigger failures in Early Access than Spacebase, where people put up testing maps for Unity assets for $20.
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Dec 9, 2014 03:21
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/08/day-of-the-tentacle-special-edition/ Looks like DF is still finding work, although I think it's odd for them to remaster another classic adventure game before seeing if anybody is going to buy Grim Fandango again.
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Dec 9, 2014 03:54
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Pirate Jet posted:Double Fine is far from the first or only developer to abandon development of an Early Access game. Except it was after the explanation that double-fine were only continuing development while the money kept flowing, and that's why they defined an early access game as one that has a reasonable expectation of being finished. So, while the previously mentioned games were symptomatic, I feel they wanted to nip the double fine bullshit in the bud before it metatizised into a bunch of tech demos and barely functioning vanity projects. Nice try, though.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:01
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Hav posted:I feel they wanted to nip the double fine bullshit in the bud before it metatizised into a bunch of tech demos and barely functioning vanity projects. Too late! EA was a wasteland far before Spacebase hit. It's a lovely situation that DF deserves criticism for but people act like it single-handedly ruined EA/Steam/video games/everything, forever. Hav posted:Nice try, though. Don't get catty.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:05
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Pirate Jet posted:Double Fine is far from the first or only developer to abandon development of an Early Access game. I can't think of any developer with the profile of DF doing it, though.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:11
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I don't think a game like spacebase was going to set the world on fire. And I definitely don't think they are getting much profits out if it, even if it was "completed" or not.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:28
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monster on a stick posted:I can't think of any developer with the profile of DF doing it, though. While they're weren't high profile before there were several "games" where the "developers" literally just threw cheap Unity assets into an arena, added some guns, and held out their hand for development money. As bad as Spacebase is, it is nowhere near the level where Valve would specifically make an unwritten example of them. Double Fine, being an actual business, is at least smart enough to look at what happened with Spacebase and say "Okay, well, we're never doing that again. It didn't turn out well for anybody." Valve was almost certainly talking to the amateur coders who vomit some weekend project up on Early Access and hope for some quick money.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:52
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Geight posted:Design is god!
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Dec 9, 2014 05:26
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Kibayasu posted:While they're weren't high profile before there were several "games" where the "developers" literally just threw cheap Unity assets into an arena, added some guns, and held out their hand for development money. As bad as Spacebase is, it is nowhere near the level where Valve would specifically make an unwritten example of them. Double Fine, being an actual business, is at least smart enough to look at what happened with Spacebase and say "Okay, well, we're never doing that again. It didn't turn out well for anybody." Valve was almost certainly talking to the amateur coders who vomit some weekend project up on Early Access and hope for some quick money. Those games don't dominate several 24hr news cycles though and make Early Access look super shady to the wider gaming public at large. The timing of Spacebase and the rules being released are just too close for them not to be linked.
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Dec 9, 2014 08:20
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:Those games don't dominate several 24hr news cycles though and make Early Access look super shady to the wider gaming public at large. The timing of Spacebase and the rules being released are just too close for them not to be linked. When these things were still on Steam they more certainly did have more than their share of posts on websites, especially as their developers did the typical thing of going nuclear on their Steam forums and deleting everything. Anyways, the fact that they were close together is just as good a reason that they aren't linked, since this is Valve we're talking about. Which isn't to say that Double Fine couldn't have benefited from following them but Valve aren't going to overhaul the terms, rules, and guidelines for Early Access that quickly because of one game from Double Fine. There were much more egregious games being sold on Steam through Early Access that caused that update.
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Dec 9, 2014 08:45
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notZaar posted:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/08/day-of-the-tentacle-special-edition/ Not really. Both games are owned by Disney, they are probably contracted games, Double Fine likely won't see much (if any) of the sales profits, so it's likely just something they really want to do. Casimir Radon posted:By the time Romero was spouting that I don't think he was particularly good at design or business. Speaking of that there's that episode of the documentary where Tim says he'd like to be rich and successful like Romero which seems odd. Is Romero sort of like Donald Trump in that he's a loud rear end in a top hat whose only really business skill is covering his own rear end? Nothing he's done in close to 20 years has been particularly "special", I'm sure that pays the bills but I don't see him still being rich? Unless he's taken another lesson from Trump and spends a lot of time trying to make people believe he's significantly better off than he really is. Apparently Romero's mobile games are very very successful in some parts of the world.
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Dec 9, 2014 10:19
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I kind of didn't give a poo poo about Spacebase being cancelled despite playing a fair bit of it one day because it was clear that they were going at it all wrong from the beginning and we're going to fail with it eventually. You see, they were trying to make a Dwarf Fortress clone by first making a video game, which is a huge mistake. But if they had started with a barely playable bunch of jumbled systems banging off of eachother they would have never been able to fund it through Early Access, so they were kind of screwed.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:00
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Casimir Radon posted:By the time Romero was spouting that I don't think he was particularly good at design or business. Speaking of that there's that episode of the documentary where Tim says he'd like to be rich and successful like Romero which seems odd. Is Romero sort of like Donald Trump in that he's a loud rear end in a top hat whose only really business skill is covering his own rear end? Nothing he's done in close to 20 years has been particularly "special", I'm sure that pays the bills but I don't see him still being rich? Unless he's taken another lesson from Trump and spends a lot of time trying to make people believe he's significantly better off than he really is. That has to be sarcasm. Romero was kind of an industry joke after Daikatana, as far as I know that hasn't changed.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:14
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notZaar posted:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/08/day-of-the-tentacle-special-edition/ I wouldn't be surprised if both of these remakes were signed a while back (possibly before the DFA delay/drama) and they're only being ANNOUNCED now that some work has been done on them.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:22
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monster on a stick posted:That has to be sarcasm. Romero was kind of an industry joke after Daikatana, as far as I know that hasn't changed. Don't think so. Romero just left the PC / Console game space entirely and went into mobile gaming four or five years ago.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:35
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:Don't think so. Romero just left the PC / Console game space entirely and went into mobile gaming four or five years ago. True, but there are plenty of people in the game industry who are successful at both having respect and a nice wallet (Carmack, Newell, probably Meier though not as much as the other two obviously.) Romero is pretty far down that list, and it just seems weird that Tim would name him considering nobody will ever forgot "John Romero is going to make you his bitch" and the whole Ion Storm Dallas fiasco.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:47
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John Romero still smells like roses compared to George Broussard, tho.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:51
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John Romero is the greasy, arrogant, turd that sank Ion Storm more or less all by himself. I wouldn't give him $5. I seem to recall something about another game industry person or a blogger wrote something making fun or him for things like having a messed up personal life and a bunch of bastard children, which he got really mad about. Now I can't find it.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:55
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Al! posted:I kind of didn't give a poo poo about Spacebase being cancelled despite playing a fair bit of it one day because it was clear that they were going at it all wrong from the beginning and we're going to fail with it eventually. You see, they were trying to make a Dwarf Fortress clone by first making a video game, which is a huge mistake. But if they had started with a barely playable bunch of jumbled systems banging off of eachother they would have never been able to fund it through Early Access, so they were kind of screwed. This does not bode well for Rimworld and Gnomoria. Someone should tell those guys they're onto a loser and should stop now. monster on a stick posted:...Tim would name him considering nobody will ever forgot "John Romero is going to make you his bitch"... Technically that was some incredibly tone deaf advertising by the publisher, which was actually contemporaneous for dumb marketing decisions around games. Barbarian's advertising springs to mind. BigFatFlyingBloke posted:Those games don't dominate several 24hr news cycles though and make Early Access look super shady to the wider gaming public at large. The timing of Spacebase and the rules being released are just too close for them not to be linked. Just so we're clear, the actual rule change was this; quote:Do not make specific promises about future events. And that's in addition to; quote:Don’t launch in Early Access if you can’t afford to develop with very few or no sales. All of that being on the page, Tim's explanation was this - http://steamcommunity.com/app/246090/discussions/0/613936673464943075/ "We started Spacebase with an open ended-production plan, hoping that it would find similar success (and therefore funding) to the alpha-funded games that inspired it." "In traditional development, “Beta” refers to a time when no new features are added but bugs are fixed. Things are different in early access where the game is in players’ hands at an earlier state, so the team has been fixing bugs all along as features are added." "But for us, it was never clear whether development was going to end because we always hoped that the next update would turn it around and allow us to extend development." "I understand that the recent announcement was a disappointment. It was for you, and it was for us. We wanted to keep working on Spacebase for years. But Spacebase spends more money than it brings in, and that’s just not something we can afford to do any more. " They _planned_ this to be an open-ended development model without informing anyone else. That's a lovely thing to do, and why I keep coming back here to point out to Pirate Jet that the rules that govern Early Access were already broken with 'setting expectations', and that Tim was torturing the concept of '_this_' with the idea of traditional games development (see the section on 'what a Beta is') because they wanted to eat their cake as well as owning it. If you check out the final paragraphs, there are a bunch of promises made about bringing it to V1 that apparently Doublefine cannot fulfill because the developers are gone, but you know, Doublefine is right there with us, bemoaning the fate of the wonderful developers they canned because they didn't provoke a big enough up-front revenue stream. And that's why Doublefine will tank eventually. You don't burn goodwill like that without seeing fallout, and I've gone from backing kickstarters to watching them with a certain amount of amusement because now we begin to see what publishers must get every goddamned time there's a budget or time overrun.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:56
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notZaar posted:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/08/day-of-the-tentacle-special-edition/ That Day of the Tentacle lets play part 1 is over 6 month old and no part 2 in sights. I'll never buy anything from them again!  (Still excited about the remake of the greatest game ever!)
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Dec 9, 2014 18:30
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Fintilgin posted:I wouldn't be surprised if both of these remakes were signed a while back (possibly before the DFA delay/drama) and they're only being ANNOUNCED now that some work has been done on them. Yeah but why ? I would have figured they would test the waters with one game first. And why DotT instead of a more known property like Indiana Jones?
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Dec 9, 2014 23:49
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Is Indiana Jones, as an adventure game, better known than DotT? I knew a lot more people who played the latter.
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Dec 10, 2014 00:18
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Day of the Tentacle is the best graphic adventure game ever, FYI.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:17
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Chairchucker posted:Day of the Tentacle is the best graphic adventure game ever, FYI. That's weird, this post says Day of the Tentacle and not the Curse of Monkey Island.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:46
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Hav posted:stuff You're posting a lot about this but you still don't seem to grasp what I'm saying, which is that the Spacebase scenario absolutely sucks and is a gently caress-up on Double Fine's part, but they've already done everything that can be reasonably expected of them to make reparations and I don't feel the devs owe me or any other owners of the game anything more beyond that point - and that it is incredibly unlikely that Valve updating the rules of Early Access was caused solely by Spacebase (or that it even contributed such a significant portion) due to how many times this situation happened in the Early Access community already. Saying that "Yeah, Valve did that to say 'gently caress YOU, DOUBLE FINE!'" is a self-justification of your own fanboyism. I have a feeling that if Valve is actually pissed at anyone, it's the guys who launched a game out of Early Access with half of the promised features and then followed up with a death threat to Gabe Newell. Everyone who paid for Broken Age is still going to get Broken Age. When Double Fine announces that they're releasing Act 2 as paid DLC, then we can start freaking the gently caress out. It's also ludicrous that you can look at pictures of Schafer throwing money around after the Kickstarter ended and not understand that it is a joke from a studio who primarily makes comedy games lead by a writer who founded a career off of comedy games. Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 09:30
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Chairchucker posted:Day of the Tentacle is the best graphic adventure game ever, FYI. I'd say it's on equal footing with Sam n Max and Fate of Atlantis.
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Dec 10, 2014 13:54
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Pirate Jet posted:Saying that "Yeah, Valve did that to say 'gently caress YOU, DOUBLE FINE!'" is a self-justification of your own fanboyism. Explain the 'fanboyism'. I'm genuinely interested in how you got there.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:21
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Because you're stating a bunch of vague events that are only related through happenstance and repeating the same talking points over and over again? I don't know what to tell you, dude. Your mind is clearly made up and you obviously didn't come here to have your opinion changed.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:47
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Pirate Jet posted:Because you're stating a bunch of vague events that are only related through happenstance and repeating the same talking points over and over again? I don't know what to tell you, dude. Your mind is clearly made up and you obviously didn't come here to have your opinion changed. An ironicat may be called for at this juncture.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:21
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notZaar posted:Yeah but why ? I would have figured they would test the waters with one game first. And why DotT instead of a more known property like Indiana Jones? I sort of suspect they were signed in the magical glow after the kickstarter succeeded, and adventure games were 'proven' to be resurgent, but before the bloom went off the rose, with the idea that (as a small studio) work might not start on the remakes until work on DFA and other projects were winding down and they had staff to assign to them. But that's totally conjecture. Maybe they just signed the remakes shortly before announcing them. I dunno. 
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Dec 11, 2014 01:56
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Latest update from the backer forum:DF Greg posted:Hello lovely backers of Broken Age wanted to pop on quick before the holidays to let you know how we rounded out the year and what the future holds! The big news is that the entirety of Act 2 hit Alpha a little over a week ago, and much of it is well on it’s way to beta! The game is playable from start to finish, including the big finale scene we’ve been working on for the past few months. All the professional VO has also been recorded and implemented and is in the game. With the size and complexity of Act 2, these are HUGE HUUUUUGE milestones!!
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Dec 20, 2014 13:43
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A Beta by late February followed by lots of polish, so May for the release? A "drop dead" date for them would be the Steam summer sale, since they can advertise the complete game rather than just Act 1 and get a lot more sales, and (if Act 2 turns out well) they'll have that nice buzz to help.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:52
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I think they've already spent their wad far as sales go. Just not sure how many more people there are interested in adventure games considering it's already been through a
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Dec 20, 2014 19:09
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:I think they've already spent their wad far as sales go. Just not sure how many more people there are interested in adventure games considering it's already been through a They just announced they're going to sell it on lots more platforms so theres money to be made.
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Dec 20, 2014 20:16
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:I think they've already spent their wad far as sales go. Just not sure how many more people there are interested in adventure games considering it's already been through a I imagine there are at least a decent chunk of people like me, who are interested in picking up the finished product but don't have any interest in giving DF money before that.
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Dec 20, 2014 20:19
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