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So some guys have read the Cyriss novel and it has this to say about the unspoiled light the corollary "Aurora channeled her thoughts through the top-shaped Corollary hovering just beneath her. It was the first of the light vectors to benefit from the arcane displacement fields that propelled the servitors and granted the clockwork angels true flight. The arcane repeater buried deep within its globular chassis magnified her thoughts, sending her mental control farther across the field." Seems Cyriss will have squire tech in a non caster attachment  an update it may also have the focus equivalent of Fury Bank whether the rules match the novel or not is another matter. Hoboskins fucked around with this message at May 24, 2013 around 00:00 |
| # ? May 23, 2013 23:55 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 15:26 |
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Hah! And another thing with Weapon Platform is that (if I'm reading it right) lets you make your initial Ranged after a power attack too. I'm just picturing him throwing a jack straight up and skeet-shooting it. Cyriss has yet to disappoint. evenworse username posted:Crossposting in here in hopes of a response - I tried some freehand (for the first time) leaves on Morvanha's cloak here and now I think they look pretty bad. Am I being overly self-critical in thinking it would look better if I went back to a solid brown cloak? (I realize the picture is terrible, my decent camera is packed up for moving so had to go with the cell phone) I'd move in a less-is-more direction and instead of polka-dotting with the leaves, put three or four detailed leaves on there.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 00:00 |
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Hah! And another thing with Weapon Platform is that (if I'm reading it right) lets you make your initial Ranged after a power attack too. You forgot to add in the 3-6 shots from its other gun in between Drags. So it's Drag, Punch, Throw, Pow-Pow-Pow-Pow, Drag, Punch.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 00:53 |
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Alpha Phoenix posted:I'd move in a less-is-more direction and instead of polka-dotting with the leaves, put three or four detailed leaves on there. I think that would also work, but also get into a whole 'nuther thing with getting the larger leaves to look right over the folds in the cloak. That may be beyond my current ability, tbh.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 01:33 |
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evenworse username posted:I think that would also work, but also get into a whole 'nuther thing with getting the larger leaves to look right over the folds in the cloak. That may be beyond my current ability, tbh. The trick is to cheat. I draw everything using a 0.3 drafting pencil and go over it with inks. For my Circle casters I decided to have some star-scape cloaks. I just splattered paint from an old toothbrush to get the basic idea then cleaned it up and added some details with a brush. e: This was drawn then painted:  And the star-cloak: 
!amicable fucked around with this message at May 24, 2013 around 02:26 |
| # ? May 24, 2013 02:20 |
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So if every model in a Bastion unit takes 8 damage from a simultaneous attack can some survive or not?
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| # ? May 24, 2013 02:30 |
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^^^^^^ e: I'm gonna go with no. They can't take more damage than they have unmarked boxes, so I don't see how any get out alive. !amicable posted:The trick is to cheat. I draw everything using a 0.3 drafting pencil and go over it with inks. For my Circle casters I decided to have some star-scape cloaks. I just splattered paint from an old toothbrush to get the basic idea then cleaned it up and added some details with a brush. I remember those cloaks, they are awesome. I may try to rip them off somewhat when I get around to painting eMorv. Dunno why I didn't think of drawing some pencil outlines before deploying the paint - thanks for the tip. I'll take the cloak back to basic brown and maybe try drawing a couple leaves on there and see how it goes. evenworse username fucked around with this message at May 24, 2013 around 03:10 |
| # ? May 24, 2013 03:07 |
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evenworse username posted:^^^^^^ The question is specifically about if they can get out alive if one can transfer 7 of the damage to another bastion because it has open boxes at that point, sort of how if you hit a tough ARM 10 model 6x times with a chain gun it only has to make 1 tough roll to survive because they damage pools up into one glob and then is applied in one go. Edit: loving PoM. Trigger is on 'would suffer' not 'suffers' so it looks like it triggers before damage is marked, so each bastion could make another bastion immediately suffer 8 of its damage for it since boxes have not been marked yet, and then the damage slated for the dead bastions disappears into the ether. So it looks like half die and half take no damage. Cyclomatic fucked around with this message at May 24, 2013 around 03:38 |
| # ? May 24, 2013 03:19 |
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I know that it's hard to make these calls before stuff really hits the table, but I am baffled at how the Cyriss stuff is going to be remotely balanced against the other Warmachine factions unless it all just massively pricey in points. I mean people love to bitch up a storm about Galleon, the Cyriss Colossal is looking basically better in every single way with the additional advantage of being in a faction designed to run and support serious jack power. It's going to murder the poo poo out of people, and I don't see how that 'works' unless its like 25 points or something. Am I wrong here? Missing something?
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| # ? May 24, 2013 13:40 |
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Just saying that using a Feralgiest to get Typhon Gunfighter charging up the table is hilarious and pisses my mates off incredibly fast.Ashcans posted:I know that it's hard to make these calls before stuff really hits the table, but I am baffled at how the Cyriss stuff is going to be remotely balanced against the other Warmachine factions unless it all just massively pricey in points. I mean people love to bitch up a storm about Galleon, the Cyriss Colossal is looking basically better in every single way with the additional advantage of being in a faction designed to run and support serious jack power. It's going to murder the poo poo out of people, and I don't see how that 'works' unless its like 25 points or something. Looking over my new NQ, I have noticed that they have an extra row of damage boxes, to a total of 7 per column compared to the other factions 6.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 13:52 |
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Ashcans posted:Am I wrong here? Missing something? Maybe there is something in the next Warmachine book that counters it? A whole line of 'jacks that roll an extra die against them? But that would still be pretty stupid.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 13:54 |
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Fight Cyriss like you fight legion or menoth, take out the support first. They've got abysmal defensive stats (10/18), low spd, and top out at 13 inches on their longest range guns. they're as slow as dwarves, without the toughness, as reliant as menoth on faction buffs, but lacking the main ones that get menoth jacks into the battle (passage, song of whatever), and resting a lot of their support on solos and lights that are easy to pick off. They're neat, but really, really designed around that clockwork mechanic where everything is a cog in a big machine. Start stripping cogs and it falls apart.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 13:57 |
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If you can transfer focus within x", all the other player has to do is take out a middle light jack and there goes your synergychain. They seem really strong but they're built like a clock. Take out a few gears (magic bullet servitors etc.) and it'll begin to fall apart.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 14:59 |
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They're still slow, not amazing at shooting, we haven't seen any of the stats for their normal units yet (but at 6 points they promise to be squishy). The only thing we've really seen so far is that their Colossus is really good, they have some good casters, and some 'jacks that are very worth taking but by no means game breaking. It's not like any of their stuff is any more ridiculous than poo poo that's already out there, it's just different. People were saying some of the same stuff before Ret came out.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 15:04 |
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Yeah honestly every faction has crazy bullshit stuff. We've all just gotten used to it. So a new faction with new crazy bullshit just gets people worried. You can see the same phenomenon with newer players: "Wait how is your ARM that high?" "Your entire army is Tough? That whole unit doesn't even get knocked down? That's bullshit!" At least that's the kind of stuff I tend to hear.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 15:12 |
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Yea, I guess. Except that I play Mercs, so what limited crazy bullshit we have is generally available to everyone else as well. The Galleon was basically our wildcard, and so it bites seeing Cyriss apparently get an improved version. Guess this is what I get for playing Mercs.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 15:38 |
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Ashcans posted:Yea, I guess. Except that I play Mercs, so what limited crazy bullshit we have is generally available to everyone else as well. The Galleon was basically our wildcard, and so it bites seeing Cyriss apparently get an improved version. CoC doesn't seem to have any armor buffs other than Father Lucant's feat, though. (Am I forgetting something?) Mercs have a pretty easy time giving Galleon +4, +5 where +3 can't be purified is an option, and you have access to the best infantry in the game. EDIT: Khador should be the ones whining. ARM 20 hella repairable was their thing. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at May 24, 2013 around 15:45 |
| # ? May 24, 2013 15:42 |
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Sulecrist posted:CoC doesn't seem to have any armor buffs other than Father Lucant's feat, though. (Am I forgetting something?) Mercs have a pretty easy time giving Galleon +4, +5 where +3 can't be purified is an option, and you have access to the best infantry in the game. Super easy time, just gotta take a Merc/Minion Warlock and a Minion Light Warbeast, then use the Merc/Minion Warlock to cast the Warbeast's animus as a spell instead of an animus, because only the Warlock is in faction with the Galleon. It's so simple! And all at the low low cost of 12 points (though yes you do get a bunch of rad Gators)! I agree that the game basically doesn't need a whole new edition, but it could certainly do with some cleanup and transparency between spells, animi, and in-faction allegiances.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 15:55 |
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As is now, Cyriss only has one unit to remove buffs with. Also they appear to only have one AOE vector currently as well. So a buff to Def on a high Def unit will frustrate a person to no ends. Also it limits one list to being Father Lucient for that reason alone.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 16:05 |
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The only Cyriss-spoilers that sort of annoyed me a bit were the Iron Mother with her "screw you for taking warjacks"-spells and the respawning Aiyana-bots. At least you can still destroy your own warjacks for convenient cover. I guess it depends on what faction you're coming from though. Not really worried with Khador or Retribution, but I guess Hordes players might really hate having their expensive warbeasts taken apart in a couple hits or dragged around. None of their warjack support seems anywhere near as powerful as just the Choir of Menoth and none of their warjacks seem as good as Menoth jacks either, so I've mostly just been unimpressed. It'll come down to their infantry in the end. It could be interesting to see how they might change things up if they prove to be popular. I've got no interest in them, but I guess I'll pick up the book out of curiosity. Sulecrist posted:EDIT: Khador should be the ones whining. ARM 20 hella repairable was their thing. So is Speed 4 and Defense 10. They are already cursed enough in sharing our pains. 
Zwiebel fucked around with this message at May 24, 2013 around 16:24 |
| # ? May 24, 2013 16:15 |
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Sulecrist posted:CoC doesn't seem to have any armor buffs other than Father Lucant's feat, though. (Am I forgetting something?) Mercs have a pretty easy time giving Galleon +4, +5 where +3 can't be purified is an option, and you have access to the best infantry in the game. I feel like what Khador should be bitching about most is the main gun on the Conquest, how the hell is it that a Collossal's main battle cannon packs the same punch as a Dygmie's hand cannon and is worse than a bomber chucking a barrel full of low grade gunpowder at you. I feel like apologizing to my regular Khador opponent every time that my Trolls can outshoot the Conquest.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 16:44 |
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I'm not sure why anyone would apologize for conquest. It's the no frills focus efficient giant murdermachine that most khador list builds need.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 17:42 |
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Cyclomatic posted:The question is specifically about if they can get out alive if one can transfer 7 of the damage to another bastion because it has open boxes at that point, sort of how if you hit a tough ARM 10 model 6x times with a chain gun it only has to make 1 tough roll to survive because they damage pools up into one glob and then is applied in one go. I'm super confused. Simultaneous damage can't be doubled up on one guy, and what chain gun hits a model with 6 simultaneous shots so that only 1 tough check is required?
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| # ? May 24, 2013 17:46 |
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Re: CoC being overpowered. I may just be coming at this from a terribly biased (Cryxian) perspective, but I haven't seen anything yet out of Cyriss that I'm afraid of. A 'Jack heavy faction? Yes please, my Banes and Satyxis want to come over and say 'Hi'. What's that, limited protection against debuffs and slow power pieces? I've got your Crippling Grasp/Death Chill/Shadowbind/etc right here, baby. Not a lot of magical weapons, you say? My Blackbanes and Soulhunters and Pistol Wraithes have a little proposition for you... I have a set of regular tournament builds, and honestly I think any of my 5 standard Masters Lists could do just fine as an anti-Cyriss cracker. I'm just not that worried right now.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 18:09 |
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PaintVagrant posted:I'm not sure why anyone would apologize for conquest. It's the no frills focus efficient giant murdermachine that most khador list builds need. Saw a demo game earlier of proxied Cyriss vs Trollbloods, kinda funny watching the lights get wrecked in one go by two Impalers and Madrak.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 18:19 |
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PaintVagrant posted:I'm not sure why anyone would apologize for conquest. It's the no frills focus efficient giant murdermachine that most khador list builds need. I still love Conquest (although I broke mine in transit the other day and I'm super depressed) and I will continue to overuse rather than underuse it, but the thing that makes it super is just how hard it is to one-round and just how effective it can be on subsequent turns. 7/20 + tons of cheap repairs is what makes it it. Semi-related: it'd be cool if Conquest was so inefficient and pollutive that it left clouds in play or something.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 19:52 |
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It's the ultimate counterpunch piece in a faction that' makes things hit super hard. I agree with it farting smoke clouds. That would be rad
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| # ? May 24, 2013 20:40 |
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Sulecrist posted:I still love Conquest (although I broke mine in transit the other day and I'm super depressed) and I will continue to overuse rather than underuse it, but the thing that makes it super is just how hard it is to one-round and just how effective it can be on subsequent turns. 7/20 + tons of cheap repairs is what makes it it. Yeah, I don't think, in so far as colossals go, that it's particularly strong, but it suits what Khador battlegroups want to be and is quite a bit harder to one-round than the heavies, even the character heavies.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 20:47 |
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, I don't think, in so far as colossals go, that it's particularly strong, but it suits what Khador battlegroups want to be and is quite a bit harder to one-round than the heavies, even the character heavies. I've never had a fun time playing against a Conquest. They fit many Khador battlegroups very well. I'm not sure which collossals you're comparing it to, or what the metric is, but I think the Stormwall and Galleon are the only two that are huge meta-benders and that has a lot to do with some specific interactions Speaking of fart clouds, how much do you guys use Ternion? I'm launching back into Khador and I want to start running these guys in most of my >35pt lists. They seem like the support I've always craved in Khador.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 22:31 |
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!amicable posted:I've never had a fun time playing against a Conquest. They fit many Khador battlegroups very well. I'm not sure which collossals you're comparing it to, or what the metric is, but I think the Stormwall and Galleon are the only two that are huge meta-benders and that has a lot to do with some specific interactions For example, I think Judie and Hype are both better but both don't quite fit their factions the way that Conquest does, not to say they're useless, but I can fit a conquest into most khador lists and get something in a way I really can't with the two I mentioned.
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| # ? May 24, 2013 22:42 |
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!amicable posted:I've never had a fun time playing against a Conquest. They fit many Khador battlegroups very well. I'm not sure which collossals you're comparing it to, or what the metric is, but I think the Stormwall and Galleon are the only two that are huge meta-benders and that has a lot to do with some specific interactions Always with Old Witch. I've been playing her and Vlad3 almost exclusively (as far as Khador goes) this year, so I can't really comment beyond that. I have a feeling I'd love them with Butcher1 and Vlad1, but that's just speculation.
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| # ? May 25, 2013 02:26 |
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PaintVagrant posted:I'm not sure why anyone would apologize for conquest. It's the no frills focus efficient giant murdermachine that most khador list builds need. It punches things real good, but that main gun in a pathetic excuse for a battle cannon.
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| # ? May 25, 2013 04:56 |
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Calico Noose posted:It punches things real good, but that main gun in a pathetic excuse for a battle cannon. I like it fine, but the errata that if it hits something immune to throws (like a colossal) it does no damage is maybe my least favorite existing ruling. Another close contender is if a cavalry model (including a cav battle engine) kills its charge target with impact attacks, it's a failed charge. That's infuriating every time. EDIT: The other Khador players I've talked to have been way too whiny about the barrages, too. They see it as a covering fire template that rarely does any damage. While dropping those circles is a quick and easy way to turn the intimidation up just a notch, they're also boostable hand cannon shots! Potentially four of them! It's not unusual for me to get 4-5 points' worth of support models and victim infantry out of them in a single game, and having something that can take out those Arcanists or Shepherds mid-to-late-game with minimal effort is super nice. Also, the way I play Conquest (and the way I tend to see him played), he usually arrives after the alpha has come and gone. This means he isn't doing anything super daring in early turns--MAYBE toeing into a zone--but it also means he's almost certainly avoiding melee until turn 3-4, which gives me time to lock down the pieces I'm really afraid of. I loving love Conquest. I'm so sad mine's broke. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at May 25, 2013 around 05:32 |
| # ? May 25, 2013 05:01 |
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PaintVagrant posted:I'm super confused. Simultaneous damage can't be doubled up on one guy, and what chain gun hits a model with 6 simultaneous shots so that only 1 tough check is required? When you strafe a model with multiple attacks, you resolve all damage rolls and total the damage that would be suffered before you reach the step where you mark damage. All damage the damage that would be suffered by that model is then marked, and then it makes one tough roll. The bastion rule says that when damage would be suffered by a bastion, that you can have other bastions suffer that damage instead, with the limit of the damage they can can suffer being their unmarked boxes. All the bastions are the would suffer state, but no boxes have been marked, and marked boxes is what dictates the eligibility to suffer damage.
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| # ? May 25, 2013 07:17 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 15:26 |
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This is the infernal ruling on this: quote:The damage is all simultaneous, and you can use Sanguine Bond to move the damage around. You just have to take into account that all the damage is being applied at the same time, so you if three bastions all take 3 points of damage, if you had one model NOT use the bond and take the damage, thus bringing it down to 5 damage boxes it could not be assign more then 5 damage from the other two bastions because then it would take more damage than it had damage boxes. So you can shuffle around the damage, providing there are boxes to take it. But you can't drop transfer 6 damage to one Bastion and then have him also take 'his' damage of 6 because it exceeds the boxes available. So if every bastion in the unit simultaneously takes 8 damage, no one has any space for transfers and they are all hosed.
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| # ? May 25, 2013 11:45 |
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