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Basically I couldnt disagree with you more, but whatevs BRONZEBACKS
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Feb 13, 2012 23:24
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S.J. posted:You're comparing in a vacuum that doesn't exist. This was the point of the whole exercise. Someone was trying to compare WM/Hordes respective pieces in a vacuum. ITS ALL SWAGS FAULT!
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Feb 13, 2012 23:33
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I'd loving kill for Cygnar to have multi-wound infantry. You realize how badass Stormnoun heavy infantry could be? Speed 4, MAT 7, DEF 12, ARM 16, Reach, Electro-leap, Weapon Master, Shield/Shield Wall, 8 boxes. 4 for 8, 6 for 10. That seems pretty balanced, right? Or even 3/8, 5/10. Then I look through my Cygnar book, and look at Stormguard, and loving cry. Speed 5, MAT 7, DEF 12, ARM 15, Reach Electro-leap, Set Defense, Terrible-rear end shot from the leader. 6 for 6, 10 for 9. It's like, why the gently caress couldn't they made made Stormguard just a little bit better? I mean, for gently caress's sake, they're ALMOST there. They just thought "well, we can't make them Shield Wall because of Arcane Shield, so, welp. Might as well make them single-wound too. And hey, they have Blur for ranged DEF? Screw giving them a halfway decent defense." Cygnar has really good buff spells, but for gently caress's sake, if you take a caster WITHOUT Arcane Shield/Blur/Deflection/Deceleration (everyone but the Strykers, Haleys, and pCaine) they're beyond mediocre. For 8 points, Menoth gets 5 MAT 7, POW 12 Reach Weapon Masters with DEF 11 ARM 16, 8 wounds and Sanguine Bond. Skorne pays 11 points for 6 MAT 7, POW 11 Reach Weapon Masters with DEF 12 ARM 16 Shield Wall, with access to loving Defender's Ward and Iron Flesh(which, by coincidence, Menoth ALSO has). Hell, even loving CIRCLE has two different multi-wound troop choices. gently caress Cygnar, man.
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Feb 13, 2012 23:39
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dexefiend posted:This was the point of the whole exercise. Someone was trying to compare WM/Hordes respective pieces in a vacuum. We were arguing about the infantry more specifically (PV and I, that is), and at any rate I loving wish my 'jacks could do the poo poo that Beasts do even if they cost more points  That's what sucks about playing Cygnar, though, you gotta buy like 4 loving merc units. e: ^^^ The issue with Cygnar's infantry is, for the most part, twofold: 1) They have no loving threat range compared to pretty much everything else and 2) They die really loving easy, because we don't have that great of defensive buffs for them. If we want #1 it's a character unit that you need to put murdoch in so they can benefit from feats, if we want #2 we need boomhowler or Forge Guard, though at least we're a little better at this (Sword Knights + AS + Deflection or Deceleration, for instance). And the fact that Stormnoun armor basically starts at one point less than Exemplar armor has always baffled me. S.J. fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 13, 2012 |
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Feb 13, 2012 23:40
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One additional bonus of 'jack marshals is that they do not require a functioning cortex system to grant their bonus, and effects that disperse focus (like Disruption) have no effect on marshaling. Though if you're running a jack with a dead cortex, you probably have other problems - or will in short order. Cygnar used to have easy access to abilities specially designed to de-cortex a 'jack, which meant the afflicted 'jacks had trouble moving quickly, moving quickly while hitting things, hitting things at all, hitting things hard, and hitting things often. With the low accuracy stats, this was crippling for a lot of Menite 'jacks, and even more so for Khadoran iron. Of course, this ability didn't have an equivalent effect on warbeasts, but it had been designed before Hordes was a thing, so they didn't need to take it into account at the time. Also, under MkI, while each faction had a 'jack support unit, only Cygnar and Khador could actually repair a 'jack in the field, and the Khadoran mechaniks weren't great at it. e:f,b. Ashcans is quicker on the draw than me. MkII saw the removal of gun mages' shock rounds in favor of Snipe (+4 range), though it did improve the Defender Heavy Warjack's melee attack in that regard. IMO, not exactly a fair trade, since it exchanged up to four melee attacks for six ranged attacks that did the same thing. As S.J. and Tanon noted, Cygnar has overly specialized infantry. They're not bad at their various jobs; for a given specific role Cygnar has a unit that would top the list if you could pick any unit from any faction. But their numbers and durability are low, while their point costs are generally high, which means they tend to be bullet magnets and die before doing their jobs. They can be ridiculously effective if they get into position, so if you know what you're doing (and the dice don't hate you) they'll get the job done. The problem is, they are amazingly fragile. One point of damage exceeds their reasonable-not-fantastic armor, and they die. If they step outside their specialist roles - long gunners in melee, for example - they get butchered, and they're too expensive to take many of them. Those same specialist jobs would be a lot easier with other factions' equivalent units like Winter Guard or Bane Thralls, which tend to be cheaper or more durable or both (Exemplars!  ) I could rant all day about Cygnaran infantry shortcomings and how there must be an awful lot of Sun Tzu-style strategic maneuver warfare that keeps Cygnar from being overrun in days, but I shouldn't.Fluff-wise, it's odd that Cygnar has (or had) the most abilities specialized to deal with jacks, but none designed to deal with beasts. In the fluff, Cygnar had the most major conflicts with any of the Hordes factions - the Thornwood border of Cygnar sees regular raids by Circle units, the Trollbloods were sent to their reservations and (on paper, anyway) supplied by Cygnar, and the Skorne invaded Corvis, a major Cygnaran city. You'd think they would at least have some abilities for dealing with heavy warbeasts beyond just sending robots with jetpacks, doughboys with grenades and heavy machine guns, and walking lightning artillery to deal with... You know what, never mind. Question withdrawn. 
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Feb 13, 2012 23:50
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To be honest a lot of the issues aren't even the infantry themselves. Having specialist infantry even at inflated prices isn't inherently a bad thing, the greater problem is our factions loving spell lists. Cygnar as a faction could be turned around in a heartbeat if we could strip some of the pointless or lovely spells out of some of our casters spell lists and turn them into legit spells. gently caress you Arcane Blast, there is no loving reason for you to even exist in Mark II GOD DAMNIT a;lfjdasgij Winter Guard are okay for the price. A full unit of winter guard + UA is pretty good. With Joe they good. With Iron Flesh they're loving outstanding. See the progression there? A single spell that occurs in multiple lists makes a unit that's good to okay and makes them loving bonkers. (This is a simplistic comparison, but I think it's apt) For instance: giving Quicken to pHaley or pStryker would seriously change the way that caster is looked at, and that's a single loving spell. e ^^^ Don't even get me loving started on Electro Leap and Disruption. 
S.J. fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Feb 13, 2012 |
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Feb 13, 2012 23:52
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S.J. posted:Bloat Thralls really aren't considered that great, but there are plenty of things they'll do well against. Just keep them the gently caress away from your own dudes. Other than that, you'll want to pick up a Necrosurgeon + Stitch Thrall unit eventually, the Bane Thrall UA to piss people off, and Seethers are loving spectacular with any caster that can provide an armor debuff or STR buff. Oh that's right, I did order a Seether too. And pre-ordered the new Jack Marshal because all of my friends suck jack marshal-unit cocks 24/7
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Feb 14, 2012 00:00
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Sab669 posted:Oh that's right, I did order a Seether too. And pre-ordered the new Jack Marshal because all of my friends suck jack marshal-unit cocks 24/7 Honestly I would stay away from that 'Jack marshal unless you plan on putting a Harrower on it so it can just keep going. I honestly can't think of another 'Jack to put on that guy. He's not that special, unfortunately. I don't mean to burst your bubble but Cryx as a faction is full of ridiculous poo poo and that just isn't one of the ridiculous pieces 
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Feb 14, 2012 00:02
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Jack marshals in general just aren't that fantastic, especially solo marshals. One pseudo-focus, no matter how exactly the jack gets it (with or without cortex, etc.) doesn't make up for the non-ability to be in battlegroup for spells and such, and how utterly it castrates a jack's usefulness when the marshal goes down. At least when you do a unit marshal (like the Gun Mages) they have to take out an entire unit before the 'jack loses out on the marshal abilities. Going back to the Cygnar infantry/buff considerations, I think it boils down to this: the Cygnar buffs are strong number wise (+3 Def against ranged, +3 ARM period, +2 DEF/ARM against ranged, +2 ARM against ranged/magic), but notice what three of the four have: they're temporary effects that only work against RANGED. This allows Cygnar to (somewhat) close the distance with our mediocre melee units, but once we get into combat, we get rolled like nobodies business. The oft-mentioned WGDS and Nyss Hunters have access to their enhanced abilities at night all times; the Winter Guard are DEF 17 against ranged and melee, and with boosted attack rolls on their sprays, can shoot into combat to clear each other off. Stormnouns get Electrical Immunity, but they don't even get the Insulation effect where the leaps bounce around them instead of to them. It's a gigantic cluster-gently caress and it's annoying as hell. Going back to my multi-wound example above, does anyone actually find that unit overpowered? It'd be very strong, but I don't think it's any crazier than other infantry, multi-wound or otherwise.
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Feb 14, 2012 00:26
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If you want multi-wound infantry for Cygnar just take the Ogrun Assault Corps.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:19
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Well this seems slightly topical. I have been out of gaming in general for a while for various reason but before I stopped I was looking at getting into warmachine. I picked up 2 different faction boxes with a con gift certificate because I didn't know which I wanted to play, and I still don't. I think the reason is I want to play with a bunch of big robots but the WM factions don't seem particularly good at doing that. Fury just seems better for running non-infantry. That itself isn't an imbalance, but it limits options a lot. Cygnar was one of the ones I was looking at. I am disappointed by the infantry as well, but I wouldn't mind so much if the jacks could do the heavy lifting. But the more I read and play I get more discouraged that just doesn't work.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:30
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Reik posted:If you want multi-wound infantry for Cygnar just take the Ogrun Assault Corps. This is not a fix, though. They're not terrible, granted, but you need Murdoch with them, they're not spectacular in melee, and you need to take them with a deadeye caster to maximize their assault (pCaine, p/eHaley, Sloan). They can do some work on a lazy kayazy player thanks to their AoEs but that's not really the kind of job multiwound infantry should be tackling anyway. I'd look more seriously at them if they were 6 dudes at a max unit, but unfortunately only Hordes does that. e: ^^^ Cygnar is fine overall, because there are a lot of gaps that you can fill with mercenary units or solos, but if you plan on playing in tournaments, you can't take most of those in multiple lists, which sucks. As long as you enter the faction with our good casters and stay away from loving Darius, you really won't have to worry about that much. Also, having stuff like the Minuteman available to scare the poo poo outa stuff with Iron Flesh on it I feel will really help things out for us. S.J. fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 01:54
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Pops posted:Cygnar stuff. This is why I've put away my Cygnar for a while, at least until the Avenger and Minuteman come out. With our local scene switching to playing more scenarios, Cygnar is at a distinct disadvantage. Yes, they can win games, but usually by assassination only. If I wanted to play the Nyss and Boomy every game, I may as well just play Mercs... Oh wait, I currently am. Roth's Mercy + Tough + Kayazy is delightfully infuriating for an opponent.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:56
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CampingCarl posted:Well this seems slightly topical. I have been out of gaming in general for a while for various reason but before I stopped I was looking at getting into warmachine. I picked up 2 different faction boxes with a con gift certificate because I didn't know which I wanted to play, and I still don't. And I think that's part of the problem: infantry is just so good, overall. Of the three parts of the army, most factions have great options in all three spots: warcasters, jacks, and infantry. The weaker factions have a deficit in those. The problem with Cygnar, is that the best point investment is infantry, not jacks. The Swans have amazing casters, some pretty stellar jacks, but the third leg is what makes it tumble. The strongest factions in the game (Cryx, Legion, Khador, Menoth imo) have all three in spades. It can get a bit demoralizing.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:03
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The best part about all of our arguing and complaining is that I R is gonna come back from his vacation and call us all loving idiots.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:03
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S.J. posted:The best part about all of our arguing and complaining is that I R is gonna come back from his vacation and call us all loving idiots. Probably. Welp, thanks to my depression over Cygnar, I'm starting to come around to Skorne Anyone want to give me a hand as to where to start with them?
Tanon fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 02:13
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The Aberrant posted:Why's the guardian in there? You already have an arc node, and a Reckoner is a far better beatstick anyways. Not too mention you're lacking the choir, so that flare gun would really help with high defense warbeasts. My Reckoner is already painted, defeats the purpose of a slow grow league. And I don't have an arc node in there... that's a Repenter, not a Revenger. Plus, Crit Pitch with Guided Hand is gonna be pretty hilarious. Also, my choir is mostly painted, so I'm not taking them in the slow grow league either. It's not about competitive, so much as playing new stuff and getting models painted that really need painting.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:13
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Gay Polymers posted:My Reckoner is already painted, defeats the purpose of a slow grow league. And I don't have an arc node in there... that's a Repenter, not a Revenger. Welp I can't read it seems. Anyways, if you're going to post a slow-grow list for critique it might help if you posted what models you can swap in/build a list with.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:22
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Tanon posted:Jack marshals in general just aren't that fantastic, especially solo marshals. One pseudo-focus, no matter how exactly the jack gets it (with or without cortex, etc.) doesn't make up for the non-ability to be in battlegroup for spells and such, and how utterly it castrates a jack's usefulness when the marshal goes down. At least when you do a unit marshal (like the Gun Mages) they have to take out an entire unit before the 'jack loses out on the marshal abilities. Obviously there are a couple Merc options that buck this trend (mostly Thor) but generally its more about the jack than anything else. You basically only want to marshal a very efficient jack that you are never going to want to dump focus on. The Buccaneer is a perfect example of this - it's a jack you are basically taking for the net attack, and if you can boost that you are set. It's not like you're ever going to dump 3 focus on it and slam or anything. Marshals seem particularly useless outside of Mercs, because 95% of the time you are better off sticking them on Jr (if you are Cygnar) or making use of a Power Booster. CampingCarl posted:I think the reason is I want to play with a bunch of big robots but the WM factions don't seem particularly good at doing that. Fury just seems better for running non-infantry. That itself isn't an imbalance, but it limits options a lot. I think that the answer here is to find the particular casters that work with a ton of jacks. For instance, mostly Khador runs infantry. But if you want, you can bring Karchev and bring down the jack pain. I think most factions have a jack-friendly caster, you just need to work out who that is. I have been on the receiving end of Kraye (Cygnar mounted caster) with 3+ heavies and it was never pleasant. Obviously this restricts your choices, but what doesn't?
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Feb 14, 2012 02:25
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Do not ever put a 'jack on Jr. Ever. Just... bad things happen.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:25
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Tanon posted:Probably. You have a caster in mind?
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Feb 14, 2012 02:26
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Tanon posted:Probably. What up Skorne starting buddy?
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Feb 14, 2012 02:26
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Tanon posted:Probably. 1) Warpack (It's a good value, even if you never use the second Savage outside a battlebox game.) 2) Cyclops Brute (or convert the second Savage to a Brute) - Morghoul needs this to not die from knockdowns/lucky shots, and he's useful with other squishy warlocks. 3) Paingiver Beast Handlers 4) More Titans 5) More Titans 6) Got enough Titans yet? Wrong, get MORE TITANS! After that, pick the warlock you like, and some infantry to go with it (9/10 this will be Praetorian Swordsmen + UA, but Xerxes likes Cataphract Cetrati, and Nihilators are also pretty nice). Hakaar the Destroyer and Aptimus Marketh aren't universal, but go great in so many lists, so you'll want them eventually. Pick up Molik Karn when you tired of people liking you; pick up the Agonizer when you want people to start dick-punching you. Edit: Pick up Zaal when you want to start a entirely new sub-faction.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:36
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PaintVagrant posted:You have a caster in mind? I like most of them. Both Hexis, both Makedas, and Xerxis are my top choices. pMorghoul is pretty interesting too. I'm trying to wrap my head around Zaal and Mordikaar; they play very differently it seems. I think everyone but eMorg and Rasheth interest me. Not very helpful, I know S.J. posted:What up Skorne starting buddy? Sup bro? Cygnar to Skorne, what what.  Paper Kaiju posted:1) Warpack (It's a good value, even if you never use the second Savage outside a battlebox game.) Thank you! I was thinking of going with the Warpack, Beast Handlers, Bronzeback, and more casters to start. Then get some Cataphracts, they're awesome.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:55
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I'm actually coming around on Skorne, Zaal is a pretty cool model. I understand Skorne can run beast heavy pretty happily? I'm thinking about branching off from trolls for something to do since I've got all the troll models I want and I feel like painting up a force of jacks or beasts since big things are cool. I don't want to do Menoth though because gently caress those guys
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Feb 14, 2012 02:59
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Ashcans posted:I think that the answer here is to find the particular casters that work with a ton of jacks. For instance, mostly Khador runs infantry. But if you want, you can bring Karchev and bring down the jack pain. I think most factions have a jack-friendly caster, you just need to work out who that is. I have been on the receiving end of Kraye (Cygnar mounted caster) with 3+ heavies and it was never pleasant. Obviously this restricts your choices, but what doesn't? I know there are certain casters that can do it, but usually just the one. Aside from how boring only one caster would get, tournaments require multiple lists. Khador was the other at first glance looked cool. Big jacks, slow but heavily armored. But people warn away from going Khador for the jacks and I can see why. Outside of very particular single lists, taking more than 1-2 jacks isn't as good and most of the jacks are not even used in any list. I don't see many lists that have anything more than 1-2 of <Behemoth/Beast 09/Spriggan> in the jack department. Don't get me wrong I love the system. I just don't like restrictions that don't add anything to the game. Really I just want to run lists like have been posted full of big beasts, but steam powered. 
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Feb 14, 2012 03:03
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Tanon posted:I like most of them. Both Hexis, both Makedas, and Xerxis are my top choices. pMorghoul is pretty interesting too. I'm trying to wrap my head around Zaal and Mordikaar; they play very differently it seems. I think everyone but eMorg and Rasheth interest me. Not very helpful, I know In addition to the advice given, nihilators go in most lists, agonizer, extoller, and tyrant commander are definitely the 3 most used solos/utility dudes. As far as cataphracts, go with cetratii. They are far superior to arcuarii
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Feb 14, 2012 03:08
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PaintVagrant posted:In addition to the advice given, nihilators go in most lists, agonizer, extoller, and tyrant commander are definitely the 3 most used solos/utility dudes. I'll probably end up getting both because they look so awesome, but yeah. The Cetratii are pretty ballin. What about the Karax? I've heard from some sources that they're terrible, but they seem pretty good for cheap single-wound infantry. CMA, Shield Wall, and Girded? They're pretty well immune to AOEs, which are the bane of cheap Shield Walls, and can CMA to actually put out some halfway decent punch if necessary. They don't look half bad, to me at least.
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Feb 14, 2012 03:15
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Tanon posted:I'll probably end up getting both because they look so awesome, but yeah. The Cetratii are pretty ballin. I like them, but no one else does. That's all I'm going to say. Fake edit: They also only really work well with 2-3 warlocks, so Swordsmen or Nihilators are still better if you're starting out with the faction.
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Feb 14, 2012 03:22
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They work with Zaal, and even thats somewhat debatable. Theyre not good enough to warrant buying imo, but if you get them as a gift or something...
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Feb 14, 2012 03:23
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Has anyone tried using Naaresh? He seems kind of...unusual.
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Feb 14, 2012 03:37
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S.J. posted:Do not ever put a 'jack on Jr. Ever. Just... bad things happen. Why not? Seems like a better idea than putting them on a marshal, and a couple Cygnar jacks (like the Hunter) seem custom-fit to Jr. Better control range, you can boost both hit and damage while upkeeping arcane shield. What's not to like? PS - Mercs would kill you and eat your children for a Power booster, much less a Jr.
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Feb 14, 2012 03:39
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Alright, looking on Miniature Market for models plus what everyone has said so far, here's a couple of 35 pointers I'm gonna try to build towards. Thoughts? System: Hordes Faction: Skorne Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Archdomina Makeda (*5pts) * Cyclops Brute (5pts) * Molik Karn (11pts) * Titan Gladiator (8pts) * Aptimus Marketh (3pts) Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts) Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (3pts) pMakeda is pretty baller. I figure with Defender's Ward on the Nihilators, they can provide a pretty decent speedbump, especially with the Tyrant Commander backing them up for extra speed, Pathfinder, or a Reveille after they get Tough rolls. Molik Missile is pretty obvious, though I could drop him for a Bronzeback. Brute protects Makeda, Marketh does his thing. System: Hordes Faction: Skorne Casters: 1/1 Points: 35/35 Lord Tyrant Hexeris (*6pts) * Cyclops Brute (5pts) * Bronzeback Titan (10pts) * Titan Gladiator (8pts) * Aptimus Marketh (3pts) Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts) Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (3pts) Agonizer (2pts) This one I'm not so sure about. I kinda got lost with it after the beasts and handlers, and the Nihilators + Tyrant Commander combo. I know Marketh and the Agonizer are good solos, they just seemed more... thrown in. I mean, other than Soulfire, Hexi doesn't really have any spells for Marketh to sling, and there isn't extra infantry to cycle Death March to. Any suggestions here? Edit: Ashcans posted:Why not? Seems like a better idea than putting them on a marshal, and a couple Cygnar jacks (like the Hunter) seem custom-fit to Jr. Better control range, you can boost both hit and damage while upkeeping arcane shield. What's not to like? Because the Jr. has Battlegroup Commander instead of Jack Marshal. If he gets killed (which happens easily) the jack you put on him goes inert instead of autonomous. So, if you have a Hunter on him, you lose 9 points of models for killing one 14/14 solo with 5 boxes. Tanon fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 03:47
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Tanon posted:And I think that's part of the problem: infantry is just so good, overall. Of the three parts of the army, most factions have great options in all three spots: warcasters, jacks, and infantry. The weaker factions have a deficit in those. The problem with Cygnar, is that the best point investment is infantry, not jacks. The Swans have amazing casters, some pretty stellar jacks, but the third leg is what makes it tumble. The strongest factions in the game (Cryx, Legion, Khador, Menoth imo) have all three in spades. It can get a bit demoralizing. Retribution has amazing infantry, but only decent jacks and warcasters which makes them neck in neck with Mercs for being the worst factions. Both have good units that can work, but they also both lack strong casters.
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Feb 14, 2012 04:20
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Tanon posted:This one I'm not so sure about. I kinda got lost with it after the beasts and handlers, and the Nihilators + Tyrant Commander combo. I know Marketh and the Agonizer are good solos, they just seemed more... thrown in. I mean, other than Soulfire, Hexi doesn't really have any spells for Marketh to sling, and there isn't extra infantry to cycle Death March to. Any suggestions here? Marketh is very useful for Hexeris1, and here's why. Turn 1, activate Marketh, have him Soul Slave a beast. Activate that beast, run it forward (with the list you have, you'll want to Soul Slave the Bronzeback, and have the Gladiator Rush it first). Hexeris can now activate and channel Soulfires and Obliterations in your enemies AD lines (if you go second, then right into your opponent's main force). Edit: Also, having Marketh ease your spell burden means more Fury for the Agonizer.
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Feb 14, 2012 04:23
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Ashcans posted:Why not? Seems like a better idea than putting them on a marshal, and a couple Cygnar jacks (like the Hunter) seem custom-fit to Jr. Better control range, you can boost both hit and damage while upkeeping arcane shield. What's not to like? Because when you get right down to it, Jr isn't hard to kill. And when you kill someone who's controlling a warjack, it shuts down. Also, Jr's control range is actually smaller than a marshal (6") unless you're using hunters. Basically whenever I see Jr have control of a 'jack, I go out of my way to 2-for-1 my opponent. e; Tanon! Also one of you guys should be a total bro and buy me a bitchin Cygnar av e: Ooh, also! Had a great night tonight. Traded in some magic cards for store credit at an LGS near me and I got a Storm Strider, Deathjack, pCaine resculpt and pHaley resculpt for -80 bux Seriously considering picking up a second storm strider with the remainder and running eHaley T4.
S.J. fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 04:36
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Reik posted:If you want multi-wound infantry for Cygnar just take the Ogrun Assault Corps. That's a funny way to spell Boomhowler & Co. S.J. posted:The best part about all of our arguing and complaining is that I R is gonna come back from his vacation and call us all loving idiots. The funny thing about Cygnar's spells versus other factions is that most of them don't say Friendly Faction Model/Unit, they just say Friendly Model Model/Unit. From what I've seen is that Nyss and Boomhowler are in a lot of Cygnar lists. Nyss with Murdoch for bullshit Deadeye Assaults from 22" away. Or Boomhowler & Co with Arm 16, Arm 19 from Arcane Shield and 4+ Tough; who can stand themselves up before Charging. With Medium bases who block LoS to their squishier stuff like you know Gun Mages. One of the most amusing things I saw was someone running and engaging Boomhowler & Co. So Cygnar player has Ryan Mage storm into combat so it'll take 8's to kill a Troll. Even if you kill one you get a 5+ Tough (saying you haven't activated them first); then during their turn you can stand them up for freebies and just Charge on it. What The gently caress
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Feb 14, 2012 04:54
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:That's a funny way to spell Boomhowler & Co. Which is awesome and all, but I think it's absolute horseshit that you have to get entire Merc units to be competitive. Solos? Sure, throw in 2-6 points of Merc models. But having to take 1/3 or more of your total point cost in Merc models to field a competitive force? That's loving bullshit. Edit: Oh, and SJ, you should have gone ahead and used that money to start buying up your Skorne stuff
Tanon fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 04:57
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Tanon posted:Which is awesome and all, but I think it's absolute horseshit that you have to get entire Merc units to be competitive. Solos? Sure, throw in 2-6 points of Merc models. But having to take 1/3 or more of your total point cost in Merc models to field a competitive force? That's loving bullshit. I already have somewhere in the vicinity of 50+ points of random Skorne stuff, and almost a full 35 point Xerxes brick I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:That's a funny way to spell Boomhowler & Co. Kind of like how Iron Flesh doesn't say FF? Or Ashen Veil? Or Death March? Or Quicken? This doesn't change the fact that our infantry buffs aren't as generally useful and do nothing to increase threat ranges on our melee guys (yes Blaize is one exception but that does not solve the problem as a faction). S.J. fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 05:05
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 08:09 |
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Tanon posted:Which is awesome and all, but I think it's absolute horseshit that you have to get entire Merc units to be competitive. Solos? Sure, throw in 2-6 points of Merc models. But having to take 1/3 or more of your total point cost in Merc models to field a competitive force? That's loving bullshit. They gave us ranking officers for a reason, it's so we could turn merc units into faction units. Cygnar has the bonus that it can use more mercenaries than any other faction. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
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Feb 14, 2012 05:35
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