|
I think it's generally implausible for any shift towards democracy without some kind of settlement of the rural-urban wealth divide. Right now, the CCP basically wallpapers over the vast crack by mollifying the rural population with a mix of genuine attempts to improve their lot, and a healthy appeal to propaganda. Under a democratic government, however, you'd probably see an immediate split between a right wing pro-urban party, and a far left pro-rural party, with little incentive to compromise, leading to Thailand-style civil unrest on a massive scale. 'Western democracy isn't suited to China' is almost a bad cliche, but I think that honestly, it's pretty true. The best case scenario is for some kind of gradual economics led change over the next few decades, to integrate the urban economic reforms with the rest of the country. One can only hope that someone very smart and wise gets put in charge of that. Also, I agree with the somewhat cynical suggestion that the west is going to move towards the Chinese model, rather than the reverse. No one's doing anything to safeguard democracy in any real way, electorates and the media are growing increasingly tribal, and politicians increasingly cynically manipulative. All of that is going to make a limited autocracy more tempting.
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 14:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:21 |
|
|
Industrial democracies have dealt with vast wealth disparities before in their own industrialization. It wasn't pretty but they didn't immediately collapse either. I don't subscribe to the idea that Western DemocracyTM is going downhill either. It's been a shitstorm pretty much forever; at least now our politicians don't shoot at each other or have fistfights in Congress or start civil wars. To defend Grand Fromage, while Chinese society isn't as insular as Korea's the idea of a westerner heading a Chinese high school or university department is just as impossible. However, westerners can hold leadership positions in alternatives like private schools. I think this generally holds true throughout the economy; Westerners are simply excluded from established Chinese institutions (unless they are PR guys and even then there's a lot of ABCs in those kinds of high positions) but they can thrive in a parallel position. The entrenched Chinese institutions are so bad that there is a huge clamor for parallel institutions. It's not easy though. For a Westerner your paths to leadership positions seem to be: A) Get hired in via a multinational at a VP level or above. (Obviously not viable for 99.9% of people.) B) Join a foreign-run institution that hires foreigners into leadership positions. C) Create your own adventure C is the only one open to most people and it's brutally difficult. I would love to hear otherwise but this seems to be how I see things as I start looking forward more. Don't be African or non-Chinese Asian because you can't make it. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 14:20
|
|
|
CIGNX posted:Does anyone have insight on how Chinese view or accept foreign-born Chinese? I'm an American born Chinese, but when I told locals, especially ones from the older generations, that I'm an American (美国人) I would get confused looks. Later on I was told to use American-born Chinese (美国出生华裔) and never encountered the problem again. This only happened a few times and I wasn't in China for very long, but is this a thing in Mainland China or did I just coincidentally meet some very parochial locals? Don't worry about it though this issue is a big angsty thing for nearly all asian-americans not just Chinese-Americans. There's that feeling of belonging no where at all sometimes and I totally understand. I mean Korean-Americans "Gyopos" and Japanese-Americans "Nissei" get plenty of poo poo for the same reasons. If you go to Taiwan though it's a different story most people get that overseas born and raised "Chinese" aren't "Chinese" culturally. Taiwan is more culturally cosmopolitan in this sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 14:35
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Industrial democracies have dealt with vast wealth disparities before in their own industrialization. It wasn't pretty but they didn't immediately collapse either. I don't subscribe to the idea that Western DemocracyTM is going downhill either. It's been a shitstorm pretty much forever; at least now our politicians don't shoot at each other or have fistfights in Congress or start civil wars. Industrial democracies have done that by generally limiting the right to vote, or the ability of the poor to communicate or congregate, or by making the elected part of the system an essentially pointless rubber stamp. At least, that's my impression. I don't think it's totally unthinkable that, e.g. wealth based bars to being able to vote become a more mainstream suggestion, what with the whole 'skin in the game' language from the right wing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 15:34
|
|
|
One thing that Kaiser Kuo says a lot that I think I agree with is that China will have a hard time exporting its model because China doesn't have a model. It's completely opaque, and the general understanding is that everything is managed by back-room horsetrading between entrenched power structures built on personal relationship networks. You can't export that like the U.S. exported its constitutional democracy to Japan and Germany. How would you go about exporting Chinese-style autocracy? What are its basic precepts? What is its guiding philosophy? What is its formal decision-making structure? All of the decision-making institutions of the PRC are a lie and everyone knows it. And I don't just meant the rubber-stamp People's Congress. Even the people in the highest offices don't have the authority to do anything. Just look at Hu and Wen. The system is hollow. How can you export it when it was never designed to work in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 16:58
|
|
|
CIGNX posted:Does anyone have insight on how Chinese view or accept foreign-born Chinese? I'm an American born Chinese, but when I told locals, especially ones from the older generations, that I'm an American (美国人) I would get confused looks. Later on I was told to use American-born Chinese (美国出生华裔) and never encountered the problem again. This only happened a few times and I wasn't in China for very long, but is this a thing in Mainland China or did I just coincidentally meet some very parochial locals? Most of my ABC/CBC friends over here who don't have perfect, modern, Chinese usually are just assumed to be Koreans!  That said, a few of my Chinese-western country friends bemoan their jobs over here as a whole. They're still pretty much seen as "outsider", but at the same time don't get the perks of being a crazy, fun and wacky obviously-non-Chinese person. My internship in Qingdao was especially weird on this account. My Chinese was about the same as my two Chinese-Canadian/American fellow interns, but it was more often me that got invited out to extra meetings and crap. Why? Well, it could be I'm just that amazing, but we all guessed it was cause white boy with standard putonghua that can spit out a few random quotes from 论语 and 道德经 is more impressive than a couple of 华裔, and as a result gives more face. Whether or not being paraded around like a trained elephant is actually a perk is up to you, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 18:33
|
|
|
Magna Kaser posted:Most of my ABC/CBC friends over here who don't have perfect, modern, Chinese usually are just assumed to be Koreans! Even though these people aren't Chinese i'll use my Thai-American friends as an example. One of them went to Thailand around the same time I did and met a lot of other middle/upper class Thai people. Then he hooked up with a very well off girl from a wealthy Thai family, got married, and now has a kid. The parents were thrilled to accept him because he's still "Thai" after all but also with the additional bonus of being foreign born and educated. They would have certainly balked at 100% foreign suitors but he got the doors thrown open and he also got a nice career boost out of the deal. My cousin has a similar story but in Taiwan. A lot of the regular ABC/CBCs living overseas I know seem to weasel their way into the pants/panties of rich families for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 18:52
|
|
|
Magna Kaser posted:Most of my ABC/CBC friends over here who don't have perfect, modern, Chinese usually are just assumed to be Koreans! That's surprising. A lot of recent Chinese immigrants I meet in the US speak crap mandarin, so from that I'm assuming the Chinese educational system hasn't been successful in propagating the standard news reporter mandarin accent to everyone (or even well-educated people) in all parts of China. But we are all from the south so I don't think too much about it - there's just too many dialects so your putonghua will more likely than not be accented. I'm just surprised there are Chinese people who would attribute someone not speaking perfect Chinese to being a foreigner rather than being from the south or just speaking with a tinge of dialect. Did they have an American accent? Magna Kaser posted:My Chinese was about the same as my two Chinese-Canadian/American fellow interns, but it was more often me that got invited out to extra meetings and crap. Why? Well, it could be I'm just that amazing, but we all guessed it was cause white boy with standard putonghua As someone who isn't white this kind of stuff pisses me off a lot. I know in Korea there's a lot of 'looking up to' certain aspects of whiteness; I haven't been back to China in five years, but from what I read and watch China has a similar complex as well. It's not as black and white as looking up to white people; there's always nationalistic foreign policies and propaganda that makes it clear these countries aren't willing to be pushed around. A lot of original aesthetic standards like paler skin also get conflated for looking up to whites by eurocentric observers. But at the end of it, stores don't rent white people to hang around just because they like them, stores expect their whiteness to confer prestige on their patrons. I was wondering if rising economic power would be concomitant with a decrease in culture prestige attached to whiteness, but I don't know if that's the case. What do people in richer countries, like say Japan, feel about white people and the modernity/prestige attached to them?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 19:01
|
|
|
GuestBob posted:Foolish Westerners! Of course, the correct path reflects the ancient wisdom of the Dao: the balance of yin and yang. If you take too much of one thing, simply take more of another until you are once again in a state of harmony. You make no sense. I moved to a country where getting opiates on the regular is pretty goddamned hard. If I were an addict, as you seem to be suggesting, why would I do that? You're just bitter that I called you out on your giant entitlement complex. NaanViolence fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 03:50
|
|
|
flatbus posted:That's surprising. A lot of recent Chinese immigrants I meet in the US speak crap mandarin, so from that I'm assuming the Chinese educational system hasn't been successful in propagating the standard news reporter mandarin accent to everyone (or even well-educated people) in all parts of China. But we are all from the south so I don't think too much about it - there's just too many dialects so your putonghua will more likely than not be accented. I'm just surprised there are Chinese people who would attribute someone not speaking perfect Chinese to being a foreigner rather than being from the south or just speaking with a tinge of dialect. Did they have an American accent? Crap Mandarin, but authentic Chinese. The accent might be it. I don't know. That was sort of an exaggeration, but most of my Chinese-American friends are more or less immediately outed as not actually from China (Even the ones who were born in China and moved out by age 6-7) through some sort of Chinese voodoo magic. The Korean has happened to three different friends of mine on different occasions, but to be fair their Chinese ability was relatively low. The modern aspect I added because it's an interesting thing I've noticed from a couple of friends who spoke a lot of Chinese in their home with their parents, but rarely, if ever, actually went back to China. They end up speaking a 30ish year old version of Chinese that their parents left the country with, and end up lacking a huge vocabulary of technology/computer/borrowed non-Chinese words/etc. Since gaige kaifang the language has really started adding new words and changing at a pretty rapid pace, so this is a pretty interesting phenomenon from a linguistic standpoint. One friend in particular was freaking the hell out about 之士 and 培根 until she learned they were pretty well-accepted, modern words for "Cheese" and "Bacon". quote:As someone who isn't white this kind of stuff pisses me off a lot. I know in Korea there's a lot of 'looking up to' certain aspects of whiteness; I haven't been back to China in five years, but from what I read and watch China has a similar complex as well. It's not as black and white as looking up to white people; there's always nationalistic foreign policies and propaganda that makes it clear these countries aren't willing to be pushed around. A lot of original aesthetic standards like paler skin also get conflated for looking up to whites by eurocentric observers. But at the end of it, stores don't rent white people to hang around just because they like them, stores expect their whiteness to confer prestige on their patrons. I was wondering if rising economic power would be concomitant with a decrease in culture prestige attached to whiteness, but I don't know if that's the case. What do people in richer countries, like say Japan, feel about white people and the modernity/prestige attached to them? I dunno, as a white person over here trying to do break into actual non-English teaching ventures I don't feel like there's a "looking up to whiteness" thing here, in business anyway. If anything, in a Chinese context, non-Chinese tend to get treated like idiots or like children. If you're non-Asian you have a weirdness, "other", unique thing going for you but it doesn't go much further than that. I think it's much more about the prestige and, in my example, having a fun pet you can show off. Already a bunch of Chinese-looking people over here with good Chinese, why not show off a white person instead. I have a black friend over here who gets similarly brought out to banquet after banquet, for what we assume to be roughly the same reason. Of course, he probably faces an entirely different slew of issues himself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 03:58
|
|
|
hitension posted:Here's a far more fun topic than the previous one: How long do you all think it will take for China to transition to democracy? Or do you think it will go on doing its own thing forever? I hope it's not too soon. If China became truly democratic tomorrow the very next day they'd go to war with Japan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 04:15
|
|
|
flatbus posted:That's surprising. A lot of recent Chinese immigrants I meet in the US speak crap mandarin, so from that I'm assuming the Chinese educational system hasn't been successful in propagating the standard news reporter mandarin accent to everyone (or even well-educated people) in all parts of China. There are still plenty of posters on the bus stops round my way which extol the virtues of standard Mandarin, so the process is certainly ongoing. Kids have to sit a spoken Mandarin test in school aswell and the little booklet they get with their results in it is asked for when they apply to universities and such. Seems like alot of effort is going into it - or maybe the Henan accent is just so foul that additional resources have been deployed to aid in its eradication. On an unrelated note, Tania Branigan over at The Guardian is warming up for the 18th Congress: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/29/china-18th-communist-party-congress-xi-jinping GuestBob fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 04:33
|
|
|
hitension posted:But I can barely even think of a famous Asian American. "Behold our Secretary of Energy, Steven Chu!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 04:46
|
|
|
Yeah, I was going to add Gary Locke to that. He got a big welcome in his ancestral village when he went back years ago as Governor. Now he's ambassador. Not exactly low profile. EDIT: Although, thinking back, I bet there was a lot of "Where my envelope?" and disappointment during his visit home. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 04:57
|
|
|
At 3rd generation I doubt Locke could even identify any living relatives in China. I remember when Locke and Chu were placed front and center in China meetings there was some grumbling on weibo about them being Chinese sellouts or something. There was some similar talk about Asian-American soldiers in the U.S. military. It's weibo and I think this was sourced from Chinasmack so who knows how legit it is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 05:52
|
|
|
Modus Operandi posted:At 3rd generation I doubt Locke could even identify any living relatives in China.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 06:02
|
|
|
Magna Kaser posted:If anything, in a Chinese context, non-Chinese tend to get treated like idiots or like children. Absolutely this. I remind my Chinese coworkers and friends "我是成年人." or "I am an adult" so often that it's become a running joke. But I've explained it to them and I think they get it. Chinese people, especially Chinese people who work with foreigners a lot, are so used to foreigners being clueless and helpless that it's hard to blame them sometimes. Some of my coworkers can't handle anything more complicated than buying snacks by themselves. Their Chinese coworkers feel like they have to have a Chinese handler with them for anything to get done out in the world. They understand that some foreigners are different but they have to be reminded of it. It gets frustrating that you're thought of as a child sometimes, but hanging out with Chinese people whose job it is to deal with foreigners I totally understand where it comes from. A lot of foreigners are about as capable as children. I'm trying to say that these feelings are real and they are annoying, but they're not all cultural chauvinism.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 07:27
|
|
|
I think people in most places treat 'foreigners' like that. I remember when I was studying in Beijing, we all had Chinese roommates. My western classmates consistently thought of them as children. We're all university students over 20, but one of our more motherly western classmates would chastise us for mentioning any 'adult' topics like sex or drugs because the Chinese are so naive and really don't know about this kind of stuff.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 08:01
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:I'm trying to say that these feelings are real and they are annoying, but they're not all cultural chauvinism. Agreed. There can also be a dash of "you are the guest" obsequiousness in there sometimes too, but obviously not with people you spend any length of time with. I think there might also be a linguistic reason for this. In standard Chinese English, excessive politeness is often the result of an approach to language teaching which insulates the learner from associated cultural norms and, in even the most contrived sense of the word, "real" communicative situations. Now, if any bilingual goon wants to do a study on the influence of L2 English learning strategies on L1 Chinese (L2 English) -> L2 Chinese (L1 English) communication then I would love to read it, because I would bet money that the arse end of the audiolingual approach to learning English changes the way Chinese people speak to foreigners in just the manner you have described. [edit]^^^^ Bloodnose, that does sound a little daft, but you must admit that there is a grain of truth in there somewhere: http://www.danwei.com/most-chinese-women-dont-know-how-to-use-contraceptives/ I used to know a middle school biology teacher in Lanzhou who had to do the sex education classes for all her school's students. There were a few (14 year olds) who literally didn't believe her description of the facts of life. She found the contradiction between the intent of the one child policy and the absence of coherent and informative sex ed. in the Chinese curriculum to be as baffling as I did. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 08:35
|
|
|
I would be pretty suspicious of you too because why the gently caress would anyone want to be Chinese? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 09:12
|
|
|
Throatwarbler posted:I would be pretty suspicious of you too because why the gently caress would anyone want to be Chinese? Pretty much, even as an ethnic minority, you can have two children. Why the hell would anyone want to be Han Chinese? In other news I heard rumor of Bo attempted suicide. Completely unverified rumor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 12:36
|
|
|
Gail Wynand posted:I think this is hilarious mainly because most educated Chinese could name at least two: Jeremy Lin, Gary Locke.. Jeremy Lin is probably considered Taiwanese which in turn is considered Chinese by Chinese people... I've never seen anyone from China OR Taiwan acknowledge that the dude is pretty drat American.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 13:11
|
|
|
Bloodnose posted:I think people in most places treat 'foreigners' like that. I remember when I was studying in Beijing, we all had Chinese roommates. My western classmates consistently thought of them as children. We're all university students over 20, but one of our more motherly western classmates would chastise us for mentioning any 'adult' topics like sex or drugs because the Chinese are so naive and really don't know about this kind of stuff. I'm sorry but is this really so wrong? Keeping them sheltered is silly, but honestly, most Chinese college students I've met have seemed, on average, about 6 years younger than they really were. When she was 22, my now-wife turned out to not actually know how babies were made, and while she was the only one I forced to admit that, I definitely got the idea that she wasn't uniquely ignorant on the subject. And I'm not saying that being a promiscuous pothead is the only way to be "mature," either. The one time I was arm-twisted into teaching at a university (more accurately, teaching university-age kids; turns out the whole thing was some kind of scam with the Beijing University of Posts and Telecommunications renting out a building to some fly-by-night operation. Oh China, what won't you fake?) I had students teasing each other about the opposite sex like a bunch of grade-schoolers. A lot of Chinese students spend so much time preparing for tests that they really don't get a chance to "grow up" much, and it shows.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 15:18
|
|
|
Fiendish_Ghoul posted:I'm sorry but is this really so wrong? Keeping them sheltered is silly, but honestly, most Chinese college students I've met have seemed, on average, about 6 years younger than they really were. When she was 22, my now-wife turned out to not actually know how babies were made, and while she was the only one I forced to admit that, I definitely got the idea that she wasn't uniquely ignorant on the subject. My girlfriend didn't know until she was well into high school (despite spending half her childhood on a farm), and didn't know pretty much anything beyond that until I explained (and continue to explain).
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 16:30
|
|
|
My experience with my college-age tutors/language buddies while I was at Qingdao University was that they were amazingly naive and immature. My tutor actually burst into tears when I told her there was a giant statue of Jiang Jieshi in downtown Taipei. It's one thing to not know they aren't "really" the PRC down there, I get that, but the reaction was something you would expect from a small child. That, and the whole sex and dating thing. Ye gods, it was like talking to a ten year old. So, that's anecdotal, but that's my experience. I should note I've also had quite sophisticated political and cultural conversations with some friends in Beijing, but they were in their mid to late 20s, and definitely upper middle class.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 16:51
|
|
|
Jesus, I'm glad to hear these anecdotes about Chinese girlfriends. I had a girlfriend from Shanghai a couple years ago, who literally thought that period sex had a good chance of outright killing her  I thought that she was just weird as hell for a good while, until I realized that a bunch of other people had similar stories.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 17:32
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:My tutor actually burst into tears when I told her there was a giant statue of Jiang Jieshi in downtown Taipei. Why did it come as a surprise to her? What do they teach PRC citizens about Jiang Jieshi and the Kuomintang these days? Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 17:40
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:Wyy did it come as a surprise to her? What do they teach PRC citizens about Jiang Jieshi and the Kuomintang these days? That he is Asian Hitler, basically. I get the cognitive dissonance for somebody who has been fed that line their entire life, especially because they don't even know Taiwan is independent and self-governing let alone that they're very proud (kind of) of That Bad Man, but to see a college-educated adult burst into hysterics just from hearing it was pretty loving impressive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 18:54
|
|
|
I do think the education system stunts people. When I talk to a university student in Korea it's like talking to a fourteen year old. They literally don't have a life from like thirteen to graduation so it's not all that shocking I suppose.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 18:58
|
|
|
Fine-able Offense posted:That he is Asian Hitler, basically. I get the cognitive dissonance for somebody who has been fed that line their entire life, especially because they don't even know Taiwan is independent and self-governing let alone that they're very proud (kind of) of That Bad Man, but to see a college-educated adult burst into hysterics just from hearing it was pretty loving impressive. That's not fair. There is very little demonization of Jiang in the last 2 decades. Both Jiang and his son were firm believers of the unified China. In the CCP's narative, they are the "good guys" now. Plus Jiang was a pretty lousy leader. CCP doesn't need to make up poo poo to make him look inferior to the likes of Mao. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 23:08
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:I do think the education system stunts people. When I talk to a university student in Korea it's like talking to a fourteen year old. They literally don't have a life from like thirteen to graduation so it's not all that shocking I suppose. Cool racism buddy. In fact, the opposite is the case, part of Korean identity as a result of a century of occupation and war at the hands of imperialist powers is being very protective of Korean culture. The real truth is they talk to you as if you are 14 years old because they both expect you to not know anything and they have no interest to talking to a foreigner about Korean culture. heh reading this page everybody brought out the racism. Asians learn about sex and reproduction, in fact their education system is far better than the United States where a large percentage of the population believes birth control and abortion to be the work of the devil and science being lies put on Earth to test our faith. Nobody cares about your dumb anecdote. Baby Huey Newton fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Oct 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 23:18
|
|
|
RE the korean education system, you just have to bring up fan death to realize it's all rote memorization. I've had korean PhDs swear to me that it's a real phenomenon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 23:23
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:RE the korean education system, you just have to bring up fan death to realize it's all rote memorization. I've had korean PhDs swear to me that it's a real phenomenon. Yes obviously the Korean education system is all memorization, however I fail to see what that has to do with fan death (which is mostly a made up thing to make fun of Koreans). Once again, this is still better than the American education system, it's easy enough to find PHDs who are believe the Earth is 6,000 years old or that Climate change is a liberal myth. Is anyone really surprised when Chinese/Koreans/Japanese treat foreigners like children when foreigners think of them as developmentally disabled?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2012 23:37
|
|
Baby Huey Newton posted:heh reading this page everybody brought out the racism. Asians learn about sex and reproduction, in fact their education system is far better than the United States where a large percentage of the population believes birth control and abortion to be the work of the devil and science being lies put on Earth to test our faith. Just because someone says something you don't want to hear doesn't make it racism. If you look at that link posted a little ways back you will see that no, most Chinese women do not actually learn about birth control and abortion at all, which is certainly worse than having a negative view of them.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 03:49
|
|
|
Baby Huey Newton posted:Yes obviously the Korean education system is all memorization, however I fail to see what that has to do with fan death (which is mostly a made up thing to make fun of Koreans). Once again, this is still better than the American education system, it's easy enough to find PHDs who are believe the Earth is 6,000 years old or that Climate change is a liberal myth. I've met Chinese creationists. I've also met Chinese people who aren't even religious and don't believe in evolution. v  v Actually, one of the interesting parts about religion in modern China is that many Chinese will confide in westerners, more readily than random other Chinese people, that they are Christian/Mormon/etc and believe in God because many assume all westerners are Christians, more or less. I usually get really  looks when I tell them I am not a Christian.Bloodnose, what's the religious climate like in Hong Kong?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 04:02
|
|
|
God drat it I said to go away from the "here is why I am inherently superior to all people in China" rants and y'all went and did it anyway  Chinese people have weird ideas about periods-- so what? I was definitely confused by statements like "I can't ride a rollercoaster, it's *that time of the month*", but it's just an old wive's tale... I used to think I was totally devoid of silly superstitions too, until I had one of those moments Chinese roommate: Let's go outside! Me: I can't! My hair is wet! Chinese roommate: So what? Me: If I go outside with wet hair I will catch a cold. Chinese roommate: Uhh...  are you talking about? No you won't?Me: (thinks about the science of it) ....You know.. you're right. There's no reason why going out with wet hair would cause me to catch a cold.  If that example doesn't ring a bell, how about phrases like "beer before liquor, never sicker" which tons of American college students I know repeat as if it is truth? (it's not. All that matters is the amount of alcohol consumed total) Of course, I'm sure nobody in this thread ever had a silly thought ever.  Also, who says Chinese people don't know about birth control and abortion?! Don't you know "Family planning policies" are kind of a huge deal in China?? Not saying that's a good way to teach/enforce it, but at the very least I'm uh, pretty sure the concept is understood. hitension fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Oct 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 04:21
|
|
|
As a stunted Asian woman with the mental capacity of a 10 year old I sure am glad I found a big husky laowai boyfriend to explain to me how babbies are Let's talk about how we all love dating 7th graders
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 04:35
|
|
|
Throatwarbler posted:As a stunted Asian woman with the mental capacity of a 10 year old I sure am glad I found a big husky laowai boyfriend to explain to me how babbies are This thread is depressing the hell out of me. It's amazing how different my perceptions of Chinese people from China are compared to some of these guys. I'm Asian but not a Mainlander and I have never encountered a single mainlander who fits the profile of a developmentally stunted innocent in my life. I wonder if it is really because both the Chinese and the White people regard each other as naive and child-like Others who must be spoken to like innocent babies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 04:45
|
|
|
Magna Kaser posted:Bloodnose, what's the religious climate like in Hong Kong? Pretty significant because almost every school in town is religiously affiliated. Christians have a tremendous amount of money and power. The Anglican diocese runs the fanciest schools in the territory. Also most people believe that Catholics aren't Christians. I assume this is a linguistic issue because of 基督教 versus 天主教. There are also Taoist and Buddhist organizations that run schools, but they're not as noisy as the evangelicals. Islam has a presence in the sizable Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities here, with some few ethnic Chinese Muslims mixed in. There are three Chabad Houses, one Reform temple and one Modern Orthodox temple for the local Jews. The Jewish community here goes back to major Baghdadi Jewish families that came east with the British Empire. Especially the Kadoorie family, which owns China Light and Power (CLP Group) and the Peninsula Hotels, among other things. And of course we've got Falun Youknowwhat blasting loudspeakers in crowded areas. In other Hong Kong news, another anti-Mainlander bout may be brewing again. After a couple hundred grey-market goods traders were arrested in Sheung Shui a few weeks ago (those are people who buy a ton of poo poo in Hong Kong, carry it over the border for 'personal use' tax free and sell it in Shenzhen), they've now moved their base of operations to Tai Po Market. We'll see how that goes. I was lying in bed with my girlfriend last night, a Hong Kong local. We were both playing with our phones as we often do. She suddenly gets a Whatsapp from her sister that's a warning to look out for child thieves in crowded pedestrian areas of Hong Kong. It's obviously a forward. But anyway, it goes on to explain that the children are exploited by mainlanders who have whole organizations of these child pickpockets, and get away with it because they're children. If they're caught, according to the e-mail, the mainland boss pretends to be a parent and apologizes that their child is too naughty. Anyway, she reads that and we turn off our phones to get ready to sleep. But she lies awake, staring at the ceiling and just starts talking. Then she lets go with this whole crazy person speech that I will paraphrase: "I really hate mainlanders. I hate them so much. Every time I turn on the news, it's always something about how dirty they are, how rude they are, how bad they are. And now more and more of them are coming to Hong Kong. And not just the rich ones, the poorer, dirtier, ruder ones are coming more and more too. It makes me want to go outside and start killing." I sort of laughed it off and placated her a bit. But my feeling was definitely something like  Now I'm definitely not worried about this five-foot-nothing, not-quite-100-pound girl becoming a serial killer. But this has to say something about the media climate here. Too much Apple Daily. Shagga posted:I wonder if it is really because both the Chinese and the White people regard each other as naive and child-like Others who must be spoken to like innocent babies. Yes exactly this. That is what I was saying earlier.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 04:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:21 |
|
hitension posted:Also, who says Chinese people don't know about birth control and abortion?! Don't you know "Family planning policies" are kind of a huge deal in China?? Not saying that's a good way to teach/enforce it, but at the very least I'm uh, pretty sure the concept is understood. http://www.un.org/depts/escap/pop/journal/v09n4a2.htm Yang posted:For use of the pill, condoms and other contraceptive methods, China has the lowest rates among all the selected Asian countries and areas. This article is about how family planning only increased sterilization and IUD rates among women, but did nothing to promote condom use, the pill, etc. Now since it was written in the 90's let's find some more recent statistics on condom use. http://paa2012.princeton.edu/papers/120815 Guo et al posted:Previous studies demonstrate that Chinese youth are ill-prepared for avoiding unsafe sex (Wang and Davidson 2006; Wang et al. 2005). Their risky behaviors parallel a widespread lack of knowledge about sexual and reproductive health. This knowledge is especially deficient among those age 12-18 years (World Health Organization 2005). Within this age group, less than half can identify major STIs such as syphilis and gonorrhea, and many have a limited understanding of the transmission paths of HIV/AIDS. Moreover, less than half cannot identify a method of contraception. Though this knowledge increases with age, it is still low among college students. The rural population and migrant youth have among the least amount of knowledge, with some unaware of the relationship between sexual intercourse and pregnancy. In large part, this lack of knowledge stems from an absence of comprehensive sex education in schools and a reluctance among parents to discuss these issues with their children (Zhang, Li, and Shah 2007). Guo et al posted:Among sexually active unmarried females, 23% have had unintended pregnancies, of which 91% were terminated through induced abortion (Zheng, Chen, and Gao 2010). Guo et al posted:The bivariate results demonstrate that about one-third (35.7%) of Chinese youth used a condom at their sexual debut. The rate of CSD is 20.7% for Chinese youth aged 15-16 years, 33.1% for those aged 17-20, and 44.6% for those aged 21-24. They mention the rate in America, 61% condom usage at sexual debut, as well. Finally, here's an interesting survey I found about sex workers, condom usage, and HIV/AIDS knowledge. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/11/113 Zhang et al posted:The mean of the percent of correct responses to HIV prevention knowledge was only 45.7% and the mean of the percent of correct responses to HIV transmission knowledge was 61.2%. 47.1% of the women reported using condoms with clients every time during vaginal intercourse in the last month. Only 19.4% of the women were tested for HIV in the past year. Even many of the people who make a living through sex do not practice or understand safe sex and STD transmission. You guys can keep hand waving this away as 'white man being racist  ' or whatever, but the fact is a lack of sexual education in China is leading to high rates of unwanted pregnancy, abortion, STD and HIV transmission and it is a major problem.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 06:06
|
|