China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

EDIT EDIT: Oh man, China is awesome - this is like Chinese Bill O'Reilly:

http://english.sina.com/china/p/2012/0520/468975.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nUkiaDS3g4

This is my favorite Chinese Bill O'Reilly rant. It starts out relatively calm and innocuous with the anchorwoman interviewing this professor to get his 2 cents on the issues between Mainland Chinese and Hong Kong. Then he goes off the rails in a full on rant about Hong Kong Cantonese being running dogs etc.. It's pretty entertaining. The anchorwoman's face is all :stare:

# ¿ May 24, 2012 04:52

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 23:36

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Ronald Spiers posted:

China 'arrests high-level US spy' in Hong Kong - reports

Good ole CIA using the honeypot trap technique! Doesn't look good for Zhou Yongkang, head of security.

China used a similar trap to get an FBI agent with the sexy asian woman ruse then mirrored his laptop when they had an affair. So I guess it's tit for tat with this sort of thing. It must suck being an official connected to an intelligence agency because you never know whether the woman you are dating or who shows interest is really an agent.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2012 01:33

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Throatwarbler posted:

I'm listening to the newest Sinica right now and one of the guests just dropped a theory that really made me go

The whole concept of "剩女" or leftover women is a thing that the Communist party made up and propagated through state news and propaganda. The reason is that the Chinese leadership has seen the demographic changes that have happened in Japan and other East Asian countries that have become richer and less patriarchal - women who are highly educated and independent tend to marry at a later age, or maybe not at all, as being financially independent tends to reduce the traditional economic pressures to marry in patriarchal societies.

This isn't an east asian thing at all though most developed countries have had a birth rate implosion. Italy, Germany, Russia, etc.. are particularly bad if not worse than Japan. You're right about economics but the east/west culture difference has nothing to do with it.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2012 04:10

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Throatwarbler posted:

What? I didn't say anything about any east/west cultural difference?

You seemed to emphasize this "patriarchal east asian" society thing as something unique driving the falling birth rate issues. If that wasn't the case then my bad.

Some interesting population growth rate and birth rates from the CIA worldfactbook

quote:

Japan
Population growth rate: -0.077%
Birth rate: 8.39

Italy
Population growth rate: .38%
Birth rate 9.06

Germany
Population growth rate: -0.2%
Birth rate 8.33

Russia
POpulation growth rate: -0.48%
Birth rate 10.94

Germany is way more hosed and so is Russia but Russia's problem seems to be the really high death rate too. What's interesting is that in some developed european nations the birth rate would be far worse if it weren't for the recent north african/turkish immigrants. I don't want to sound all Eurabia but some of the fears generated by anti-immigrant groups probably stems from real insecurity from this shift in birth demographics.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 3, 2012

# ¿ Jun 3, 2012 04:19

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

menino posted:

I think it's definitely an East/West thing.

The statistics indicate that this isn't the case. A few eastern and western european countries are far worse off in the growth and birth rate department.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2012 04:23

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Kopijeger posted:

But speaking of proxy wars, what views does a typical Chinese person have of Vietnam?

General Chinese stereotypes of the Vietnamese? Small in stature, cunning, duplicitous, and two faced when it comes to global relations. The positive stereotypes are hard workers, upcoming regional SEA state, and they make good wives.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2012 11:05

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Raenir Salazar posted:

Would my reasoning be somewhat accurate in my supposition that a solid majority probably are fine with the government so long as it stays good on its promise to bring them jobs/economic growth and that the 'police excesses' are highly unlikely to; individually nor accumulatively going to result spontaneously in another 1911?

Prior to 1911 China was in a complete state of disarray and the Qing remnants/warlords were not just brutal but hilariously corrupt even by those old 19th-20th century standards. You're right that nothing dramatic will happen in regards to new popular uprisings. Things are just not at that level of chaos in China. Chinese people tend to put up with a lot before things go south because culturally speaking mass disharmony is the worst thing ever because it was always a herald for periods of death and destruction. I know some people will criticize me for this but I don't even think the original Tianamen demonstrations had any real weight to create a mass uprising even if they were left to go on. It would have probably fizzled because the ideologies being preached were too high minded and impractical for your average poor Chinese person at the time. Plus the student leadership was not strong enough to lead a new government reformation.

All the stuff you see about the Uighurs, Tibetans, and whatever abstract grievances are a small drop in the pool which most Han won't champion any of those causes. Those are probably the most popularized dissidents which have little actual traction in broader Chinese society. However, industrial pollution issues and rural unemployment/lifestyle issues has the real possibility of upending the apple cart. It's still unlikely to happen though because China is now 50/50 urban/rural and that number will probably be even more skewed in the urban direction in the next decade.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jun 13, 2012

# ¿ Jun 13, 2012 05:27

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

whatever7 posted:

I hang out in a main land photography forum all the time. When people referred to the Beijing government, they usually use the term "土共" (Redneck Communist). But that term easily brought in the censor police. So it was changed to "天朝" (Heavenly Dynasty) sarcastically. But that word was also too sensitive. So people start called it "Late Qing" or just "TC".

I always laugh when people say that Chinese people don't understand sarcasm. The Chinese forums are loaded with sarcastic political commentary and memes concerning the Chinese government, international politics, and the general behavior of your average Chinese citizen.

One question I have for you, what do you mean 3rd world poor countries are worse off than 20 years ago? I think some countries have certainly gotten worse but others have improved dramatically. It's more or less been a reshuffling of the economic deck. Prior to your 20 year mark there were way more small action guerilla conflicts going on globally due to the cold war. So i'd say those 3rd world countries caught in the middle were far worse off in the aftermath even after the end of the USSR.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2012 05:08

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Typo posted:

Environmental issues is probably the one issue which could and does result in popular protests across all segments of society. I was listening to Sinica when I was in China (hehe) and I pretty much agree with them when they stated the one thing which could get the Chinese people onto the streets is if they realize the rice they are eating are poisoned.

What's interesting is that the concept of co-op organic farming is gaining a bit of steam in the rural areas. There's a growing necessity for them to start looking into alternatives that won't give you testicular cancer and your baby a third eye or something.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2012 05:50

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

french lies posted:

It was a bullshit story from day one.

I wouldn't be so quick to call it b.s. either there have been rumors about Zhang Ziyi in the Taiwanese and HK press that go way back to the start of her career. She was rumored to have slept her way to the top and there are more than a few stories about this. It's clear that she has a penchant for chasing uber wealthy men too.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 04:56

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Throatwarbler posted:

Why are there so many posts about who some lovely movie starlet is loving. Who gives a poo poo. Jesus Christ, 99% of movie actresses are just moderately attractive chicks who most people only see after a ton of makeup and photoshop. You'll see a dozen girls hotter than Zhang Ziyi on the subway every day.

It doesn't matter in general but it matters in the context of how it ties into China's corrupt political system. I mean if news broke that Newt Gingrich was humping Jennifer Aniston in the asspipe for 1 million a pop that'd be pretty newsworthy too.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 17:32

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Interestingly, Thai men no longer have noble titles, but Thai women do (Khunying and whatever).

I'm not sure about noble titles but royalty can still bestow other honorifics to both men and women. That white dude who played in some orchestra or made a jazz album in Thailand (I don't remember his name or what he did exactly) was given some kind of honorific by the big man. I'm not sure what the means in the scheme of things but it's probably a nice thing to put in your Thai resume.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2012 07:01

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

menino posted:

This is from last week:

Attack Raises Fears of a New Gang War in Macau

Interesting, especially in light of Evan Osnos' God of Gamblers article from April. Still working out the kinks in Chinese Vegas.

It's always fascinating to see how these high level triad figures work. That's pretty ballsy even for them because you would assume big time investors like this have state connections that can put plenty of heat on them. I guess the only conclusion is that maybe he pissed off another ultra wealthy senior casino executive somewhere who put his triad goon connections on him.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2012 05:34

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

It's pretty safe to say that anything that has Jiang Qing attached to it loses massive credibility right off the bat.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2012 05:15

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Nevermind16 posted:

So I have read about male children being captured and sold due to the one child policy, do you think the child kiddnapping is organized by a paticular criminal group in china, or is just a wide spread type of crime

I think you're thinking of females who are kidnapped and bonded into forced marriages with various Chinese country bumpkins who can pony up the cash. There's a surplus of male children everywhere as it is. As far as I know this sort of thing is done by local gangs and it's relatively small scale however they did bust some pretty significant human trafficking rings that were bringing over N. Korean women. Not that i'd ever excuse trafficking humans but i'd say anything is still better than N. Korea.

Triads and other Chinese mafia guys are more into traditional vice like gambling, prostitution, and racketeering. They also have stakes in film and music studios. The triad influence was quite large in the HK movie industry for a long time and I think it still is. Jackie Chan and a bunch of other film stars got together to protest the organized crime influence.

Drug and baby selling is pretty high risk so I imagine it's probably done by specialized desperado groups or highly corrupt border officials. Your standard big time triads try to keep to lower risk, stable, and high profit business.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2012 16:34

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Nevermind16 posted:

I know the triads have a presence in Taiwan (thought I don't know how strong), I think is it possible they (the triads) both see and use political tension between authorities in Mainland China and Taipei, as a catalyst for smuggling and other crimes, knowing that cooperation between Taiwan and China is always harder than cooperation between say Hong Kong authorities and authorities in Macau or other provinces.

There are some large triad groups in Taiwan and I know they are present in the entertainment industry there. They are tied to dirty politicians though and operate in various racketeering schemes. However sometimes the triads work with the TW government and have carried out an assassination on U.S. soil no less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Chi-li

This guy was the leader of the United Bamboo mafia which had gang branch affiliations in the U.S. Most of the stateside guys were posers or little high school punks but the core group were bonafide big time wealthy mafia. They were "allegedly" contracted by the Taiwanese government to kill a journalist named Henry Liu in 1984 who published a biography that was highly critical of the KMT. The UB mafia leaders said they'd do it for free. This is where the details get a bit sketchy because assassinating someone over a biography is really extreme and the KMT weren't that paranoid during the 80's. My guess is that there were many other dirty secrets that Henry Liu knew about. Anyways the UB mafia pulled it off and shot the journalist Henry Liu dead in his home in CA. They then fled the U.S. to refuge in Taiwan.

The FBI investigated and tried to pressure the Taiwanese government to extradite the leaders involved but Taiwan denied the request. All these guys got away pretty much scott free and live high on the hog.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 26, 2012

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 18:53

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

gret posted:

There was even a film made about this starring James van der Beek:

Formosa Betrayed

I didn't know this was significant enough to be turned into a movie. Unfortunately this movie also looks like total poo poo.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 21:41

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

What I can't find, though, is any specifics about what these supposed threats were.

There are rumors that he was having some kind of affair with her and had the inside track on the family's finances. The affair bit is probably weibo tabloid fodder but the financial info part is real interesting. The wife was moving lots of money overseas and this englishman knew about it and maybe threatened to blab or maybe even tried to extort them. The timing of this makes sense because the PRC has started taking a somewhat harder stance against officials moving all their corruption money overseas and then setting up a second life overseas in case it doesn't "work out" in the motherland.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2012 04:57

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Some Guy TT posted:

For what it's worth, I find a lot of the same kind of naivete and clueluessness about current conditions in Western culture when I read expat takes on Korea. But I have no good perspective on China, so I'd like to know what you all think.

When some people have lived abroad for awhile they start to idealize the way things were back "home" to a certain extent. Kind of like how various immigrants to the U.S. still wax poetic about the "old" country when the old country was most likely an eastern european impoverished violent shithole run by criminals or something. They project their own inner ethnocentrism onto their host country and the local people around them. Nations like China are certainly far more corrupt than the U.S. and probably have a lot more social issues to contend with but expats usually exist in such a privileged bubble anyways. Most don't know what true hardship living in a country like China means to begin with.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2012 07:33

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Some Guy TT posted:

There's also the matter of internalizing our own propoganda, like the melting pot. Immigrants had to fight tooth and nail for every right they have, and many of them die even today never having been considered "real Americans". It just strikes me as insultingly arrogant to go to a country that doesn't even have a history of this kind of inclusiveness and acting all butthurt because you're not "real Chinese" after sixteen years.

Very few countries in the world have this concept of "melting pot." I actually don't believe it really exists at all unless you physically resemble the people in the host country and are willing to undergo vast cultural and in some cases religious changes to fit in. In which case you are mostly just becoming them anyways.

Even in western nations like the U.S., U.K., or Canada it's more like a tossed salad. People may mingle a bit here and there but there's not really that much interracial crossover when you look at the way neighborhoods, workplaces, and cities are orientated in the U.S. The vast majority of peoples till reside in neighborhoods of _X_ ethnicity which is usually their own. You might have interracial marriages and such but the identity of the offspring is usually pushed
towards the majority identity as well.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2012 08:28

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

DaiJiaTeng posted:

Regardless, A Sino-Japanese war would just be a disaster and I really hope that something like that doesn't happen.

It would be disastrous but also darkly comical. Japanese has a negative something birthrate and a rapidly aging population. Japan can't afford to waste young men for an all out hypothetical and silly war it would cripple their economy. China has way too much men but probably will still get beat down by Japan's technologically superior "defensive" military. The net result would be two nations loving themselves over rocks in the sea.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2012 10:59

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

I really don't think you can compare the zany Great game empire geopolitics of the past when leaders were willing to throw their entire populations into million man meat grinders with today's much more reserved conservative approach.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2012 16:51

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Lemmi Caution posted:

Some of the countries occupied and devastated by Japan actually lean pro-Japan, such as the Philippines and Taiwan.

Calling Taiwan "pro-Japan" is a pretty big stretch though. The feelings are more neutral. A lot of descendants on that island especially the ones who came over with the huge KMT population shift have general antipathy towards Japan. It's not outright hatred but more of a "well we know we can't trust the Japanese much but mainland China is pretty bad too."

I'm not referring to the crazy Taiwanese green party nativist folks who would throw their lot in with literally anyone as long as they agree with the calls for independence.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 04:38

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

Also consider that China has territorial issues with half of ASEAN and they will all fall in line behind Japan if China pushes hard enough.

The loyalties of ASEAN countries are based on who is the highest bidder at the time and is willing to offer the most economic incentives.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 04:54

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

Some countries in ASEAN without territorial disputes (looking at Burma, Cambodia and Laos here) will of course be bought off by China but Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and the rest will all fall in line behind Japan against Chinese aggression.

Do you honestly believe the Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei are not motivated by economic self interest and broader geopolitical concerns? Vietnam has shown itself to be a pretty savvy player the import/export economic stats are pretty revealing. They play three sides (the U.S., Russia, and China) frequently.

The territorial disputes themselves are a bit of a red herring in some ways for these smaller countries. If you're a small potato looking to wrangle the best deal between various major world powers then you'll play whatever card you got. I'm sure nationalistic concerns is hyped for the public but behind the scenes it's all about economic priorities. The leaders (industrialists) of all those countries you mentioned are more or less kleptocrats. That makes them realists to some extent. They aren't going to war over some lovely sea rocks because war doesn't bring money to their offshore accounts but they will certainly play it up to get some kind of deal out of it long term.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 05:08

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

Something tells me you don't follow Vietnam-China news involving the South China Sea claims.

It's a bargaining chip. I live in the SEA region and follow the news everyday. You just have to understand how ASEAN countries operate. Very little of it is based on some kind of nationalistic ideology. It's all $. That may be how it's portrayed to the dull witted citizenry but not how it's played out in the back rooms.

If you believe there's going to be some kind of super ASEAN alliance + Japan fighting China sometime soon then you are hilariously mistaken.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 05:19

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Here's an example of the negotiating doublespeak used when ASEAN countries cut deals with the big boys

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...terman-cam-ranh

quote:

Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang, who was in Russia and was to meet Putin on Friday, was quoted as telling a Russian radio station that Vietnam has "no intention of cooperating with any country with the aim of military use of the port of Cam Ranh".

However, Sang was quoted as telling Voice of Russia radio that a maintenance and service facility at the port would be open to ships from all nations and that, in the interest of furthering a "strategic partnership" with Moscow, Vietnam "will provide Russia with advantages in Cam Ranh, including with aim of developing military cooperation".

Interpreting diplomatic speak:
Hey guys we aren't open to be a port for anyone officially and since you are a very special friend (for a nominal fee) we'll be happy to assist in developing military cooperation (as an unofficial port.)

Vietnam was also talking with China (as the sea rocks disputes were going on) to increase business ties. They were also talking with Russia about extending naval agreements and arms trade simultaneously while talking with the U.S. about a naval port and increased arms trade.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 05:34

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

What does Taiwan typically do about mainland Chinese fishing boats entering it's territory?

They are probably owned by joint Taiwanese-Chinese business ventures to begin with.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 15:40

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ryan8723 posted:

A Japanese-Chinese war could very well set off another world war. This is why this situation is far more scary to me than the riots in the Middle East.

I just can't see any scenario where this is a plausible reality. People keep forgetting that during the cold war far more provocative incidences occurred and nations kept their cool.

I really don't see this as anything but the bi-annual asia-pacific pissing match.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 17:11

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

shrike82 posted:

Wait, so the Chinese are the ones destroying anything remotely tied to Japan,

If I were a Japanese person sitting at home watching tv i'd be laughing at the dumb rear end mainland Chinese destroying other Chinese citizen's property that they paid hard earned money for. Most of those Japanese restaurants they are throwing chairs through the store front of are owned by Chinese restauranteurs anyways. It's all pointless tantrum throwing by the nationalistic dull witted man on the street.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 17:35

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Vladimir Putin posted:

Nobody can guarantee anything won't happen in the future. Germany can't even guarantee that they won't go apeshit again and fingerfuck every country in its immediate vicinity sometime in the future. How the gently caress farther do you want Japan to go than loving renouncing war in its constitution and having five trazillion US bases on its territory?

There is a bit of a double standard in how the holocaust is acknowledged in the western world versus Japan's war crimes though. Every high school kid in the U.S. probably knows about the Bataan death march or has at least heard about it. However, Japan's other WW2 "recreational" activities that went on in China is much less well known. Now compare that with knowledge of the holocaust. China is a bit like the USSR in a way. It's still considered an enemy or rival country in some circles so people are quick to dismiss historical grievances as somehow deserving even though people aren't going to come out and portray it like that. Mao was a scumbag but it still doesn't somehow detract from the gravity of the atrocities of WW2. It's possible to acknowledge bad things happened without giving the CCP political ammunition too.

Japan really hasn't done a whole lot of sincere apologizing. It's hard to say the government has apologized when it's a constant troll point in Japanese politics with P.M.'s visiting WW2 war memorial shrines and making certain politically incorrect statements after giving apologies to Korea and China. This would be like Merkel going to a mausoleum containing the ashes of Himmler, Hitler, and Goring after apologizing about the holocaust to Israel and Jews worldwide.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Sep 19, 2012

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 02:18

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

NewtGoongrich posted:

The Republic of China was America's ally during the war

That's not entirely accurate. There were two political and military factions within China at the time. It would be more accurate to say that the KMT was aligned with the U.S. and the CCP were very fair weather allies out of necessity. No one trusted the CCP at all and everyone expected a conflict following WW2 to decide who controls China.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 02:28

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Longanimitas posted:

Yeah, but China directly supported Pol Pot, who was objectively worse than Hitler in every way. You don't really have outs here, the Chinese Communist Party is in no position to be demanding apologies from anybody.

There are a lot of people in Taiwan, Singapore, etc.. who are also in that ethnic Chinese diaspora not related to the CCP who were effected by WW2 as well. The apology is more than that it has to do with the misdeeds committed in the whole region.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 02:40

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Suntory BOSS posted:

Without disputing that the Japanese government certainly could (and probably should) offer more explicit apologies, Japan-bashing is far too politically lucrative for ROK/PRC politicians to ignore. No expression of regret will ever be good enough; even the most elaborate apology will be met with accusations of "obviously they didn't mean it because they are still trying to steal our beautiful territory of Dokdo/Diayou". There is no magical combination of words that Japan can say that would make Chinese/Korean animosity suddenly evaporate.

Let's just face it all this is just the usual passive aggressive Asian cultural stuff that happens whenever every country in that region has problems with each other over something. Japan doesn't want to lose face over history. China doesn't want to back down. So it'll be a historical impasse for a long time with plenty of doublespeak thrown in.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 02:50

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

And finally - and this is controversial and I'm sure people are going to get mad about what I'm going to say here - The PRC and KMT governments have never shied from straight up making poo poo up about Japanese war crimes in their wartime and post war propaganda. Making them out to be many times worse than they actually were.

Such as...?

Here we go folks. :allears:

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 02:55

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

Well I can guarantee that no one in this thread has ever read a Japanese textbook. Pick any, even the one or two that China and Korea go apeshit over (that no schools even use), and you'll immediately see that they are loaded with anti-militarism and how war is the absolutely worse thing ever and only leads to nuclear bombs and how Japan is so perfectly pacifist with the anti-war constitution and all that.

They even manage to throw in random tear-jerking antiwar messages and stories into every single one of their English textbooks too.

Please answer the question PrezCmachoo

Which part of Japan's WW2 history do you believe is fabricated by the KMT and CCP politicians?

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 03:15

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

Pick any serious historical study of the massacre and it will cover the details. Especially interesting are the historical studies of the evolving perception of the massacre rather than the massacre itself.

Which historical studies or websites are you referring to which specifically say that the CCP and KMT are "making poo poo up" as you put it?

Provide links please.

Also, what possible reason would two different political parties from two very different countries have in maintaining the same conspiracy to lie about Japan's WW2 atrocities. What about Korea are they in on this conspiracy too?

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Sep 19, 2012

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 03:20

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

Read those books and combine them all together in the context of the overall curriculum in Japanese schools and come back here and say with a straight face that Japan whitewashes its responsibility for the war.

Why would Japan need to whitewash anything when it was obviously all lies written by the Chinamen and their Hangook co-conspirators to defame glorious Nippon?

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 03:33

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

PrezCamachoo posted:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Making-Rape-Nanking-Weatherhead/dp/0195180968

The Making of the "Rape of Nanking": History and Memory in Japan, China, and the United States (Studies of the Weatherhead East Asian Institute, Columbia University.)

A good start.

Haha are you serious? That book has 5 reviews 2 of which call it out on being historical revisionism. I can't even find the author of that book referenced in any other scholarly study.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 03:47

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 23:36

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Grand Fromage posted:

As a complete anecdote, I used to teach Chinese students at my university and several wrote papers about the Rape of Nanking. Every single one of them had a ridiculous number for the victims--my favorite was the one that said Japan killed five billion Chinese people in WW2. I assumed she just didn't know what billion meant but the most I was able to talk her down to was two hundred million. The lowest number I was able to ever get anyone down to for the massacre itself was two million people.

I assume they must be getting that from school but I don't know. Korea exaggerates Japanese crimes against them, I wouldn't be surprised if China does too. I think it cheapens them--Japan did legitimately do massive amounts of awful poo poo and killed millions of people, there's no reason to lie about it to try to make it look worse. All it does is make the victims look dishonest.

I'm not saying you're a revisionist or anything but do you realize a similar "exact numbers" argument is used by holocaust revisionists and the whole 6 million figure right? No one claims that your average ignorant man on the street is supposed to represent the official or academic account of history either.

People would be furious if similar doubtful claims were made about the Holocaust but yet it seems like it's ok to do it with Japan and WW2. I made a reference already as to why this seems to be alright with some people because China is viewed as a rival country viewed with a lot of ambivalence. However, this sort of thing is offensive to a lot of people that have nothing to do with the CCP either.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2012 04:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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