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Elephunk posted:This looks like fun... A short round is ten minutes. A long one pushes thirty (I've not actually had a 30minute round in my ~100 games). Most are 20-25.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 14:06 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 20:01 |
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Violently Car posted:Pretty much nothing is going to convince me that support isn't the hands-down most broken character in the game right now. Everything he does is completely broken. I hope he gets nerfs but the whole community seems completely fine with all of his bullshit. Considering that nothing is going to convince you that everything isn't broken, I will nonetheless chime in to say that support is strong but hardly broken. First off and in regards to commandos, support without a firebase is pretty useless. If you are a commando and catch him outside his firebase, he should be dead. You should be getting the first grapple and then as sin/spark, you can blind him+second grapple; as Wascot you can stun him/shifty to anti-grapple. If he does have his firebase, you will need help, but in that case he is stationary and susceptible to ganks just like anyone else. Beyond that, yes, he does have a ton of utility and it makes him a very strong class. Channeled slow, fantastic AoE damage with airstrike and the utility of overclock is very strong. But he's on the fragile side, has no escape and has very little cc aside from his heal gun's alt fire (and that is limited duration). He does a good job of healing and has decent utility, but he doesn't have buffs/debuffs and melts when focused without a way to escape. He's pretty well balanced, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the support was just fed? Comrayn posted:Got to play some Captain Spark now that he's free and I really like his moves and think his voice acting is pretty hilarious. The lack of grapple on his melee weapon take some getting used to, but with no way to disable a turret you have absolutely no way of dislodging a support of CG who have set up their turret(s). Plinking away at the turret will take all day while they get healed and plinking away at the pro will get youan equal amount of damage from return fire. Comrayn posted:Yeah about that... There were a significant number of walls that it seemed I could not teleport through. A lot of them were not exactly big thick walls either. The alt fire on his sword is super strong, don't forget that one. Get three melee hits and you can shoot out very high damage bolts. Flip switch is a move with extreme utility, from ring outs to initiation to chasing. But overall, I actually agree that he doesn't quite measure up to Wascot or Assassin. In regards to his warp, you might be teleporting in such a manner that you were ending up in a wall or something. You should try and teleport so that you have a fair amount of clearance.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 14:11 |
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Eejit posted:Considering that nothing is going to convince you that everything isn't broken, I will nonetheless chime in to say that support is strong but hardly broken. First off and in regards to commandos, support without a firebase is pretty useless. If you are a commando and catch him outside his firebase, he should be dead. You should be getting the first grapple and then as sin/spark, you can blind him+second grapple; as Wascot you can stun him/shifty to anti-grapple. If he does have his firebase, you will need help, but in that case he is stationary and susceptible to ganks just like anyone else. Honestly, this reads to me like "this is how you beat a bad support player." A lot of these weaknesses can be covered by the support player just playing better. Also, it doesn't take into consideration his teammates. Support classes are force amplifiers. Support in SMNC more than amplifies the power of his teammates all while being a very strong character in his own right - that's the problem.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 14:18 |
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About Captain Spark's teleport: it's entirely possible I was ending up in a wall, but in the instance I remember I would use the move while a very thin wall was a just a couple feet in front of me. There was definitely clearance behind the wall but within range of the teleport, but maybe the destination further beyond that was in a (second) wall. Instead of teleporting me through the nearby wall and as far as it could go to the next one, I would just hit the nearby wall, barely moving. edit: One other thing. Sometimes his melee weapon would just stop adding charges. I noticed a couple times this happened when I fired off the bolts and quickly swung again, which might have cancelled the animation. It reduced me down to 0 charges but I couldn't gain any more and I couldn't fire again. This might have lasted until I died but I don't remember when it eventually started working again. I'll need to play him some more to figure this out. Comrayn fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2012 around 14:52 |
| # ? Feb 24, 2012 14:42 |
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Violently Car posted:Honestly, this reads to me like "this is how you beat a bad support player." A lot of these weaknesses can be covered by the support player just playing better. Also, it doesn't take into consideration his teammates. Support classes are force amplifiers. Support in SMNC more than amplifies the power of his teammates all while being a very strong character in his own right - that's the problem. He can heal one teammate and has no buffs to give beyond that. Firebase is powerful in annihilator fights, but if a team isn't positioned at a firebase, it adds nothing because it takes like no effort to kill it as it sets up, and if he heals the FB, he's not healing a teammate. He has no escapes, so he's easy for a commando to knock out during a teamfight as well. Maybe not kill, but definitely remove from the fight. Voila, no more healing. I have definitely seen very strong supports, but they are not insurmountable challenges. Versus a good player/team, a support is either stuck in his firebase or with his teammates. His healing isn't enough to save someone under focus, airstrike is dodgeable, he doesn't have loads of health and he has no escape or cc. He basically relies on his team and FB and even then you can push him around pretty hard. I'm not saying his a weak pro, hell, he's one of stronger pros, but he is by no means godlike or broken. Comrayn posted:About Captain Spark's teleport: it's entirely possible I was ending up in a wall, but in the instance I remember I would use the move while a very thin wall was a just a couple feet in front of me. There was definitely clearance behind the wall but within range of the teleport, but maybe the destination further beyond that was in a (second) wall. Instead of teleporting me through the nearby wall and as far as it could go to the next one, I would just hit the nearby wall, barely moving. First half: yes, that's exactly the issue. The game determines teleport success based on your final location. You need to teleport to clear space, not simply clear the initial teleport object. They could use a better system, but with experience, you can figure out his teleport. Definitely a bit of a skill curve. Second half: again, yes, it's buggy. Sometimes you can't gain charges and sometimes you have full charges and can't fire. Sometimes it magically unbugs. Almost always it's unbugged when you spawn. Actually one of the more frustrating bugs in the game because it's a big part of his burst damage output.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 15:49 |
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Captain Spark has a lot of bugs. There are issues with Arc Flash not working at all and then the Voltage Spike charges getting frozen. You can usually break that bug by Arc Flashing and then quickly hitting alt-fire to release it. While it's not an equal substitute to the way Assassin can take on turrets, a juiced up Spark will tear down a turret with his Ray Gun. You can also get in some pretty decent corner positions with the Arc Flash. Spamming Megahurtz is also pretty nice, especially if you can do from the jungle as your own team moves in.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 15:51 |
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Opening Post posted:”Pro” Tips: Captain Spark... When I play him I always think to myself ”Must get their moneyball... but how?” http://youtu.be/YwHH4Jv436g Edit: To clarify, I don't believe this taunt wasn't in the previous versions, and as far as I can tell it's a quote from this thread. Alpha Phoenix fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2012 around 18:14 |
| # ? Feb 24, 2012 17:47 |
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Violently Car posted:It spawning Jackbots when the shields go down has to be the single most moronic game design decision I've seen in a very long time. It is nothing but a gigantic snowball mechanic and it's stupid as gently caress. If they removed it, you'd be looking at the standard 30-45 minute matches that plague games like LoL.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 17:54 |
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Rorus Raz posted:This is in all other games of the Dota formula. When you get into your opponent's base, you can push hard enough to start spawn super creeps. It's supposed to snowball the game, but still offer an out for the other team if they can get it together fast enough. Super minions in LoL don't instantly wipe out oncoming waves and destroying one inhibitor doesn't cause super minions to spawn in each wave. I know that it's a DotA mechanic, but the implementation in SMNC is simply dreadful. I also disagree that games would go on a long time without it - plenty of games end without their help. If for some reason games do drag on for a long time, you can do something else, like nerf the Rock-It Launchers.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 18:08 |
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I guess I'm not against the spawn jackbots when moneyball goes down mechanic, but it makes it extremely difficult to fight against, especially when you've got more than one to deal with. On top of that, you can probably say goodbye to winning unless the other team forgets about the annihilator somehow (which I have seen happen) and makes a comeback (which I have seen happen as well!). I don't hate the mechanic but I wonder what games would be like if they would spawn a variety of bots from each side, definitely outmatching what's currently out there. Say like a Fuji, BlackJack, and Bouncer? Edit: I'm probably staying home this weekend so I will definitely be on to play some games, have yet to play with the new patch yet. Lblitzer fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2012 around 19:05 |
| # ? Feb 24, 2012 18:58 |
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I think extra Fuji bots instead of jackbots would be an improvement. The bots for the team who knocked down the shields would still push into the enemy moneyball but it wouldn't be as drastic.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 19:22 |
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If the Moneyball is about to drop soon save up juice and enough cash to by more, every pro can easily down a Jackbot with one juice, some pros can even get both of them with a single juice. Personally I've downed 3 Jackbots with one juice as a Tank (at level 15 and juiced Product Grenade did more then half of a Jackbots life). Also I see this alot, but buying a Jackbot while they have Jackbots out is usually a waste of money, you are better off buying juice to down the Jackbots and then push out with whatever you can first.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 19:31 |
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working on the "Pro" Tips for Gunner.. when deployed can you fire 2 rockets right away? or do you have to be leveled up? if so which skills, just deploy?
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 19:53 |
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Ever since the recent patch drop I'm experiencing serious screen tearing issues. They happen every 5-7 seconds and totally throw my game out the window (Last night I had to sit in spawn just to save my team the embarrassment of me feeding). I've tried turning off v-sync to no avail, any tips?
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 20:01 |
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Kreczor posted:Ever since the recent patch drop I'm experiencing serious screen tearing issues. They happen every 5-7 seconds and totally throw my game out the window (Last night I had to sit in spawn just to save my team the embarrassment of me feeding). I've tried turning off v-sync to no avail, any tips? Update drivers. nVidia release new ones a few days ago if you're running that. Maybe try bumping the resolution down and see if you get the same issues?
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 20:04 |
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Kreczor posted:Ever since the recent patch drop I'm experiencing serious screen tearing issues. They happen every 5-7 seconds and totally throw my game out the window (Last night I had to sit in spawn just to save my team the embarrassment of me feeding). I've tried turning off v-sync to no avail, any tips? screen tearing is normally caused by having vsync off... you were having it when vsync was on? That's odd.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 20:06 |
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Lblitzer posted:Update drivers. nVidia release new ones a few days ago if you're running that. Maybe try bumping the resolution down and see if you get the same issues? Running with ATI and I know Taiso, it's really bothering me how odd the problem is.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 20:39 |
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Orange Crush Rush posted:If the Moneyball is about to drop soon save up juice and enough cash to by more, every pro can easily down a Jackbot with one juice, some pros can even get both of them with a single juice. See, this is true, but what you're not saying is that you have to dedicate someone to doing this, moving them away from another area where they are sorely needed. If you're trying to make a comeback, and there's a jackbot coming down each lane, now you're two men down as you send two men to go deal with them. That leaves you with a 3v5, trying to make a comeback? Hah, good luck.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 20:40 |
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In close games the jackbot spawns make it dramatic. You have a real risk/reward to consider when sending some people to knock over their rocket turret while a few others desperate try and hold your defense together. It also forces teams to spend some effort on defense to protect their rocket turrets. I know in some goon games we have lost when we were ahead because we pushed without defending. Basically, it puts something at stake for a team to defend against a push. In not-close games, yeah, it's a disgusting snowball. But in that case, cutting out the jackbots isn't going to help the losing team come back.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 21:16 |
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Clearly focusing on Chicky is the best comeback strategy 
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 21:44 |
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Kreczor posted:Running with ATI I'm running Xtreme-G's Catalyst 12.2 with no problems. They're like Omega drivers, only kept up to date.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 21:49 |
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Taiso posted:Clearly focusing on Chicky is the best comeback strategy My favorite wins are ones where the enemy team is clearly ahead and pushing and they stop to clear out Chicky with four people because a single guy of ours is on it, then their ball goes down.
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| # ? Feb 24, 2012 22:38 |
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For some reason after this new patch I can't join games, as whenever it is loading there is some sort of game framework error, I still get the option to rejoin the game I was queued for some reason. edit: 
Hashtag Nascar fucked around with this message at Feb 25, 2012 around 00:19 |
| # ? Feb 24, 2012 23:47 |
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Eigo posted:My favorite wins are ones where the enemy team is clearly ahead and pushing and they stop to clear out Chicky with four people because a single guy of ours is on it, then their ball goes down. I know you guys are all being facetious about Chickey's comeback potential, and I do agree with you, but you can also do some fun things with him. Running up and stealing the second Chickey grapple with one guy at the last second after the enemy team spent, like, a minute getting him down to that point can be tons of fun; sure, you're super vulnerable while you're riding him, but if you're lucky you can often survive for the buff, leaving you with full health and a sweet buff. Rampage! (sure, not a good strategy, but sure is a fun one!)
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:15 |
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Eltrollo posted:For some reason after this new patch I can't join games, as whenever it is loading there is some sort of game framework error, I still get the option to rejoin the game I was queued for some reason. I think this happened to somebody else - have steam do a file verification check, I think it finds and fixes the file.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:23 |
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XboxPants posted:I know you guys are all being facetious about Chickey's comeback potential, and I do agree with you, but you can also do some fun things with him. Running up and stealing the second Chickey grapple with one guy at the last second after the enemy team spent, like, a minute getting him down to that point can be tons of fun; sure, you're super vulnerable while you're riding him, but if you're lucky you can often survive for the buff, leaving you with full health and a sweet buff. Rampage! Chicky isn't terrible to go after or anything, it's just people are really retarded when it comes to him. I actually just had another game where we all randomed due to a bug and their team had 2 defenders while we had 0 and only 2 enforcers, 4 of them went for chickey and we ended up stealing the second grab because they couldn't kill veteran in time, then we got fully healed and wiped them out and took out their moneyball after. e: Basically, if you have to send more than 1-2 people there and you know the enemy team isn't busy, it's just insanely risky to go after because of the full heal buff a couple people just need to grapple the others long enough for the riding guy to survive.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:31 |
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Neat little piece of fan art from the official forums:
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:38 |
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Chickey is kinda stupid since there's really no feasible way to kill him without grapples. If you send more than two people to get him, then you are going to make huge sacrifices in the lanes that a team-wide bacon buff won't fix.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:42 |
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Critically Late prize drop. What? What? If anything I think the new prize dynamic will encourage people to invest in several builds and in turn encourage more Pro sales. Regardless I am enjoying constant updates and devs actually listening to fan input. Hopefully it will stay the same when the game goes "public" .
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 00:58 |
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Slow Death prize drop. Interesting but pointless; if you die via overextension, slowing them down for 3 seconds is meaningless because there's nobody there to take advantage. If you die because they charged into you, they're probably dead anyway.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 01:03 |
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I got a bacon accuracy... which I don't really need for any of my builds but should net in some good coin once you can sell them. I also got some other product that I didn't have, cant remember which. A guy in our group last night got 2 level 1 speeds, lmao, literally worthless.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 01:04 |
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Cuhullin posted:Critically Late prize drop. What? What? I think they worked something out where the gains are on average not significant enough to cause a loss in profit while giving players an incentive to stay in games and try out new Pros and builds. Anyhow, I've got three prizes so far. Three Smedley's Megas. I feel like the game is telling me something.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 01:10 |
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Taiso posted:I got a bacon accuracy... which I don't really need for any of my builds but should net in some good coin once you can sell them. I also got some other product that I didn't have, cant remember which. A guy in our group last night got 2 level 1 speeds, lmao, literally worthless. They need to at least take out the default endorsements & products, heard of a guy that got the death bomb product, too. Either that, or take out the defaults... but that would be a terrible idea, IMO. Having free default endorsements & products lends a lot of credibility to the game not being pay to win.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 01:20 |
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I just got Bot Buster from a prize drop. I played a couple of matches with it, and while I didn't see any significant increases I think that had more to do with the matches I was actually playing (either because I died too often or because I ended up getting a lot of opportunities to go for ganks and didn't spend much time killing bots). I never really paid much attention to the stats before, so the only class I've had a good chance to look at was the Assassin, but I noticed that I started with a bot rating of 100 and by the end of the game, at level 13 and with level 4 offense, my base bot rating was around 200 (the stats page read it as 240 or so, but I had killed about 40-50 bots that life and I'm assuming that the Bot Buster bonus factors into the display). I know I kill about 100 bots total in an average game, so if you can stay alive for the entire match it seems like it would be a pretty significant boost. XboxPants posted:They need to at least take out the default endorsements & products, heard of a guy that got the death bomb product, too. Either that, or take out the defaults... but that would be a terrible idea, IMO. Having free default endorsements & products lends a lot of credibility to the game not being pay to win. To be fair, you can't buy products or endorsements with cash in the first place, so if anything it'd be grind to win (which also sucks but hey).
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 01:21 |
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Opposing Farce posted:To be fair, you can't buy products or endorsements with cash in the first place, so if anything it'd be grind to win (which also sucks but hey). I've run into 7~ people accusing goons of being pay2win, though 4 of those were a single group and hopefully friends loving around. e: free pros up, paid pros op Eigo fucked around with this message at Feb 25, 2012 around 03:02 |
| # ? Feb 25, 2012 02:58 |
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Opposing Farce posted:To be fair, you can't buy products or endorsements with cash in the first place, so if anything it'd be grind to win (which also sucks but hey). Yeah, but you can buy credit boosts. Buying boosts basically means that you can, in fact, pay for products & endorsements. Personally I don't really care, since in any individual match, you're on an even playing field regardless of any money spent. It's only over long periods of time that you'd be at a disadvantage without paying. If that bothers you, though, I suppose it's a legitimate concern.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 03:11 |
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This game needs to stop inexplicably redownloading the entire client.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 03:32 |
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Wendell posted:This game needs to stop inexplicably redownloading the entire client. They're fixing some of the issues that've been cropping up on Downtown Spunky and some character bugs, too. SMNC Forums posted:Rule Changes: 26
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 03:47 |
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Wendell posted:This game needs to stop inexplicably redownloading the entire client. That's a technical thing; I don't remember the exact details, but there's basically some kind of weird conflict with how the engine patches stuff that means they can't put out even small updates without making you redownload everything. I'm guessing this is probably a quick follow-up patch to fix the pro prices showing up incorrectly and maybe one or two other minor issues. Edit: oh okay yeah that's what I thought.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 03:48 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 20:01 |
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Opposing Farce posted:That's a technical thing; I don't remember the exact details, but there's basically some kind of weird conflict with how the engine patches stuff that means they can't put out even small updates without making you redownload everything. Guys, straight from the horses mouth they ARE fixing the giant patching issue. There is something in the works right now that will 'drastically reduce' the download size, but it's still being worked on. By all means keep complaining about the patch size, but keep in mind they are *extremely* aware of it and have promised a fix to it.
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| # ? Feb 25, 2012 03:51 |
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