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DangerKat
Nov 5, 2009



size1one posted:

The hoops are pretty basic, at least in some places. I was legally married by a friend who became a minister online. Our ceremony was literally him making an exaggerated fist pump. We had zero issues getting our marriage certificate or a permanent residence visa for my wife using it. Our only problem was that a gay friend boycotted the wedding out of protest. (we weren't hurt in the least).

Pretty much. In Minnesota you don't have to be an ordained anything, just fill out a form that registers you as an officiant so that your signature if valid on the marriage license.

Hell, our officiant was a gay guy. That didn't sit too well with grandma-in-law but whatever, it didn't even cross our loving minds until older family members bitched about it.

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BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

blackguy32 posted:

To add more to the discussion, this is about controlling what is seen as "normal". After reading Navigating Interracial Borders, a book about interracial relationships and how society views them, the author shows that Americans use marriage as a method to constitute what is normal. Its the reason why interracial marriages are frowned upon in the United States and why many religious conservatives are fighting so hard to keep gays from getting the right to marry.

Well it looks like my idea is bunk anyways since it looks like any random person can gain the rights to make marriages official, not just priests. My idea was to make marriage "nothing special" by removing the legal rights from the religious organizations so that all they can perform are unofficial ceremonies but clearly I was confused about how things work.

Soviet Commubot
Oct 22, 2008

MUST CRUSH CAPITALISM!


BattleMaster posted:

Well it looks like my idea is bunk anyways since it looks like any random person can gain the rights to make marriages official, not just priests. My idea was to make marriage "nothing special" by removing the legal rights from the religious organizations so that all they can perform are unofficial ceremonies but clearly I was confused about how things work.

The way it works here () is you absolutely must get married by the state at the city hall by the mayor or an appointee first and after that you can go do whatever religious thing you want. For obvious reasons I can't see Americans being too happy with that sort of thing. Maybe if it was the Sheriff, right wingers seem to love Sheriffs for some reason.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007



Senate in the US state of Maryland approves legalisation of same-sex marriage Breaking - BBC

Very good.

MrChupon
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...

Is the Maryland governor expected to sign this tonight?

Also, what drink would be very traditionally "Maryland"? My circle of friends has a tradition of drinking in celebration of each state as it passes marriage equality, but we're Westerners and never know anything about these East Coast states

Tatum Girlparts
Sep 8, 2011

More like Tantrum Girlparts!
I can't be smug if I never stop whining.



MrChupon posted:

Is the Maryland governor expected to sign this tonight?

Also, what drink would be very traditionally "Maryland"? My circle of friends has a tradition of drinking in celebration of each state as it passes marriage equality, but we're Westerners and never know anything about these East Coast states

Crab juice and cocaine?

The Battle Axe
Mar 30, 2011


The article I read on The Huffington Post stated the governor is expected to sign it. I'd link to it if I had access to my laptop, sorry.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.

The Battle Axe posted:

The article I read on The Huffington Post stated the governor is expected to sign it. I'd link to it if I had access to my laptop, sorry.

Considering he helped shepherd it through, it's not a surprise that he's signing. IIRC, the bill doesn't take effect until January 1, 2013, though.

VROOM VROOM
Jun 8, 2005

goongratulations to forum user vroom vroom for winning the avatar contest. his casual confidence in easily claiming the twenty-first post is an inspiration to myself and others. warmest regards, wolfsheim

Patter Song posted:

Considering he helped shepherd it through, it's not a surprise that he's signing. IIRC, the bill doesn't take effect until January 1, 2013, though.

From what I heard, that's right. One Republican senator tried to amend the bill to make it take effect earlier...which would put it up for a revote in the House. That and a few other, worse amendments were rejected.

Skeesix
Jun 23, 2007

I can barely get any research done

MrChupon posted:

Is the Maryland governor expected to sign this tonight?

Also, what drink would be very traditionally "Maryland"? My circle of friends has a tradition of drinking in celebration of each state as it passes marriage equality, but we're Westerners and never know anything about these East Coast states

Natty Bo

ChadSexington
Aug 12, 2004
I am so not competitive. In fact, I am the least non-competitive. So I win.

MrChupon posted:

Is the Maryland governor expected to sign this tonight?

Also, what drink would be very traditionally "Maryland"? My circle of friends has a tradition of drinking in celebration of each state as it passes marriage equality, but we're Westerners and never know anything about these East Coast states

You'll never find it outside of Maryland, but National Bohemian Beer, colloquially known as Natty Boh.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

blackguy32 posted:

Its the reason why interracial marriages are frowned upon in the United States and why many religious conservatives are fighting so hard to keep gays from getting the right to marry.
Well, used to be frowned upon, anyway.

quote:

In Gallup polls asking "do you approve or disapprove" of marriage between blacks and whites, the results have shifted dramatically over the past half century.

In 1958, some 94 percent of Americans disapproved. (The phrasing of the question then was slightly different, referring to "colored people.") By last year, 86 percent said they approved, while 11 percent said they disapproved.
11 percent is a pretty small minority: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Societ...es-have-changed

MrChupon
Nov 28, 2004

Not as taciturn, but still terribly powerful...

ChadSexington posted:

You'll never find it outside of Maryland, but National Bohemian Beer, colloquially known as Natty Boh.

Ah yeah I think I did know about Natty Boh from when I had a guy from Baltimore at my work, but not even the giant liquor warehouses here in Colorado carried it and we checked several. Thanks anyhow.

Plinkey
Aug 4, 2004

Can't we all just be friends?


MrChupon posted:

Also, what drink would be very traditionally "Maryland"? My circle of friends has a tradition of drinking in celebration of each state as it passes marriage equality, but we're Westerners and never know anything about these East Coast states

"Which beer is cheapest?" Is what I hear at bars a lot.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



There are enough signatures and Maine will have a ballot initiative to legalize same sex marriage in November. Vote YES.

Marriage lost in 2009 with only 47.25%.

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


I have a question about the religious side of the marriage equality movement. Has there been any legal push by religious establishments which do support same sex marriage? I would think that would be an extraordinary powerful case because you can make the argument that by banning same sex marriage the states are enshrining the beliefs of one religious belief system in law to the direct detriment of another, without a pressing state interest in doing so.

Polo-Rican
Jul 3, 2004

granny smith apples -
the worst apples


I've seen that map in the OP a few places before and every time it makes my eyes bleed. Those red and blue stripes give me migranes!! In fact, I hate it so much that I made this one today: do you want to add it to the op or replace the one in the op?



With this one, it's easier to see at a glance which states have any sort of same-sex unions. The constitutions and statues are presented as clear objects, so it's easy to see where they exist. So rather than looking at two clashing colors you're only looking for the presence one color and the presence of one icon.

Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at Feb 24, 2012 around 19:32

Bob Socko
Feb 20, 2001

Forum Oilman


I think it's great that so many states are voting on marriage equality this year - between that and the presidential election, it keeps religious groups from piling their money into a single state. It'll still be rough, but every little bit helps.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Marriage equality possibly coming to the ballot in Ohio.

quote:

The Freedom to Marry Coalition expects to file more than 1,700 signatures of registered Ohio voters; 1,000 valid signatures are required in the first step of placing a constitutional issue before Ohio voters this fall or possibly next year.

The proposal would change the Ohio Constitution amended in 2004 to block same-sex marriage to say that the state and political jurisdictions define marriage as a union of two consenting adults, regardless of gender. It also would stipulate that no religious institution shall be required to perform or recognize a marriage.
Worth a shot, I guess.

VROOM VROOM
Jun 8, 2005

goongratulations to forum user vroom vroom for winning the avatar contest. his casual confidence in easily claiming the twenty-first post is an inspiration to myself and others. warmest regards, wolfsheim

Governor O'Malley just signed Maryland's Civil Marriage Protection Act

Now for the referendum...

Plinkey
Aug 4, 2004

Can't we all just be friends?


VROOM VROOM posted:

Now for the referendum...

I'm going to miss all of this the fun in the Fall. I live in MD but will be moving to CA for a while. So I guess it's kinda the same but CA is a bit farther along.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

FLAVA FLAV!!!!!

Cicero posted:

Well, used to be frowned upon, anyway.

11 percent is a pretty small minority: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Societ...es-have-changed

But this is precisely what the book is about. People will say one thing, especially in public for polls, but when it came to putting it into practice, they were much more likely to disapprove. Interracial marriage was always A-Ok with people until they found out it was their daughter that was going to marry a black guy or vice versa. Although I don't know how similar the statistics are for LBGT stuff.

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2012 around 02:23

ANAmal.net
Mar 2, 2002


100% digital native web developer


VROOM VROOM posted:

Governor O'Malley just signed Maryland's Civil Marriage Protection Act

Now for the referendum...

More than likely, I'll be voting for the first time ever, just to vote no on this referendum and tell conservatives to go gently caress themselves.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

I RAPED MY WAY TO N1 AND ALL I GOT WAS
A SHITTY SCORE,
A BAD CASE OF THE SPERGS,
AND THIS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

Ladies, do not let this goon simultaneously interpret for you.


marry me kapalama


blackguy32 posted:

But this is precisely what the book is about. People will say one thing, especially in public for polls, but when it came to putting it into practice, they were much more likely to disapprove. Interracial marriage was always A-Ok with people until they found out it was their daughter that was going to marry a black guy or vice versa. Although I don't know how similar the statistics are for LBGT stuff.

I'm not sure there's a hard rule about this either way. I mean there's plenty of scummy people that say bunches of dumb poo poo until they actually know someone in their close family that's going through whatever.

I think it's more likely that people are willing to make blanket statements about stuff they don't understand, and then retract or make exceptions when it finally touches their lives. Though, like you said, maybe this reverses depending on the issue.

Polo-Rican
Jul 3, 2004

granny smith apples -
the worst apples


VROOM VROOM posted:

Governor O'Malley just signed Maryland's Civil Marriage Protection Act

Now for the referendum...

I was going to update the map I made until I read that this wouldn't take effect until January of 2013? I guess it takes a state 11 months to "prepare" for gay marriage.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS


Polo-Rican posted:

I was going to update the map I made until I read that this wouldn't take effect until January of 2013? I guess it takes a state 11 months to "prepare" for gay marriage.

It really is just so that there isn't a lawsuit to stop it while a referendum happens, isn't it?

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009


U.S. having the state system makes it exist in this wierd limbo where it is both more progressive and less progressive then my country. Yes, you have gay marriages, that is awesome and I am ashamed that my country doesn't. Buuuuuttt then you have places where you can't even have same-sex civil unions...just strange, is all.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Polo-Rican posted:

I was going to update the map I made until I read that this wouldn't take effect until January of 2013? I guess it takes a state 11 months to "prepare" for gay marriage.
Wikipedia's map considers it as a marriage state. Washington has the same status and is a marriage state in your map. Maybe add an asterisk to both? Or VOTE YES? (Less than 100% sure about MD but I believe you are voting Yes/Approve or No/Reject)
...Also there's going to be a second marriage referendum (1192) in Washington that we need to vote No on because it's easy to abuse the process and confuse voters.

Delaying the bill in Maryland was a compromise that brought in some necessary votes at the cost of losing 1 month of marriage licenses before Election Day.

If you want to bitch about a totally needless delay check out Hawaii.
July 2010: Governor vetoes civil unions bill.
February 2011: New Governor approves civil unions.
July 2011: Three other states have already implemented their 2011 marriage/civil union laws.
January 2012: Civil union law goes into effect.



e:
If anyone lives in Colorado and has a GOP state representative, please harass them over civil unions.
We still need a Repulican sponsor for the House bill to have any hope of getting out of committee.
Anything will help but these votes should be easier to get.

quote:

Republican representatives that have publicly endorsed the bill but have yet to attach their name to the legislation include Reps. Kevin Priola, Laura Bradford, and Larry Liston

Rep. B.J. Nikkel, a House Judiciary Committee member who voted against the civil union act last year isnt seeking re-election.

UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2012 around 04:56

Irishdrunk
Sep 17, 2004

Take that 4th Wall!!

silvergoose posted:

It really is just so that there isn't a lawsuit to stop it while a referendum happens, isn't it?

I think the main cause for the delays is just giving the various fence-sitters the ability to boot responsibility onto their constituents "I voted yes because I knew it was going to referendum. Because this should be up to YOU the public to decide not little ol'me". The threshold for referendum is only 55,736 signatures, which is probably going to be reached after a couple Sunday Church drives. Since this came up in the last Legislative session, the anti-ssm side supposed built an online signature verification system to help them combat any challenges to their support numbers.

Lawsuits are another issue though. There was an amendment that passed in the House of Delegates that puts a stay on implementation if there are any ongoing lawsuits (I assume ongoing prior 1/1/13). So even if we win the referendum, California could still possibly beat us to legalization.

I'm really upbeat about the New Jersey referendum numbers. Quinnipiac University is showing 57-37 in support of SSM, but I really like how Catholics are in favor 52-43. That combined with 98% of Catholic women use contraceptives just goes to show how out of touch the Bishops are.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Those polls are nice but I would be shocked and very unhappy if the legislature tried to pass a referendum. New Jersey does not exist in a bubble and allowing a legislated referendum would make it harder to get "moderate" legislators in other states to vote for marriage/union laws.

Waiting sucks, but a legislated referendum messes with the process well beyond NJ. There are 21 months to override the veto and a very viable lawsuit in superior court.


e: 3/8 New poll in Maryland poll (PPP) has marriage winning 52-44 in a specific question about a referendum.
No details/crosstabs yet.

UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at Mar 9, 2012 around 03:03

Ballz
Dec 16, 2003
VARYS IS A MERMAN

Another state legislature is taking on gay marriage!

Oh wait... they want to repeal it after it was legalized.

quote:

New Hampshire lawmakers are considering whether to take the first step toward making their state legislature the first one to repeal a gay marriage law, even as the governor threatens a veto.

But regardless of the final outcome of the push to repeal the 2-year-old gay marriage law, both sides are pledging to continue fighting into the fall elections.

The bill, scheduled for a House vote on Wednesday, calls for repealing gay marriage in March 2013 and replacing it with a civil unions law that had been in place in 2008 and 2009. Gay marriages occurring before the repeal took effect would still be valid, but future gay unions would be civil unions. The bill also would allow voters could weigh in through a nonbinding November ballot question.

If the House passes the repeal measure, it would go to the Senate; both houses are controlled by Republicans. Democratic Gov. John Lynch has promised to veto the bill if it reaches his desk.

A two-thirds vote of the Legislature is required to override a veto. Opponents of a repeal have lobbied hard in the House in the hopes of achieving a narrower margin if the bill passes on Wednesday. The House would be the first chamber to take up an override vote if Lynch vetoes the bill, and if it failed to muster two-thirds, the measure would die.

Repeal opponents hope to solidify what they argue is public support for gay marriage, while supporters hope to reverse the law in a region of the country that gay rights groups have strength.

The National Organization for Marriage has pledged to spend $250,000 to help lawmakers running for re-election who support repealing the law. On the other side, the New Hampshire Republicans of Freedom and Equality PAC is raising money to back Republicans who vote to retain it.

If the law is repealed, a lawsuit is expected to be filed arguing New Hampshire's law discriminates against gays who no longer can get married.

Democrats enacted both the civil unions and gay marriage laws when they controlled the Legislature, and Lynch signed both. After Republicans took control of the House and Senate in 2010, repeal legislative was introduced, but held over until this year.

The repeal legislation, sponsored by state Rep. David Bates, would ensure the 1,906 existing same-sex marriages would remain valid if the gay marriage law is repealed. Bates said it would replace the current "illegitimate definition" of marriage with one defining it as between one man and one woman.

Same-sex marriage is legal in New York, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maryland, Washington and the District of Columbia. New Jersey lawmakers recently passed a gay marriage bill, but the governor vetoed it. An override vote could come as late as January 2014.

Since 1998, 31 states have had ballot measures related to same-sex marriage, and opponents have prevailed in every state. Those states include Maine, where voters in 2009 rejected the state's gay-marriage law.

Last month, a federal appeals court declared California's same-sex marriage ban to be unconstitutional. The ruling could mean the bitterly contested, voter-approved law will be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Republicans: looking at the marriage clusterfuck in California and saying, "Yeah, that seems like a reasonable compromise."

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Yeah they're finally voting in the NH House today. It will pass easily and it will be drat close in the veto override.
If you live in New Hampshire, please contact your legislators.

I'm sure we would win any lawsuit but that will take a long time and waste a ton of money.

@NHFamilies has a good liveblog of the House floor. There's also an audio stream if you are compelled to hear warnings of man on dog and box turtle marriages.


e: Man I was totally wrong about this.
Repeal failed 133-202 (63 abstained!)
Bill was declared inexpedient 211-116 and is completely dead.

We won!

UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2012 around 21:36

Cocks Cable
Jul 11, 2001



Awesome!

But unfortunately an admendment to the bill that would ban marriage between lefties also failed

Irishdrunk
Sep 17, 2004

Take that 4th Wall!!

Crazy victor! Any reasons why the it got shot down? The huffpo piece makes it sound like repealing rights already given and the amendment for the non-binding referendum were the main causes. It is interesting when you read the comments by some opponents to SSM make resigned statements to it passing like Maryland Senate President Mike Miller's "I am probably on the wrong side of history opposing this". I'm used to most anti-SSM making comments more along the lines "I will fight this to the grave, and then my quiver full of children will carry on in my name!"

"Huffington Post posted:

State Rep. David Welch, R-Kingston, said he had opposed gay marriage, but the time for a repeal was past because "the Legislature has given certain rights to members of our community and now we're being asked to take them away.

Also I enjoy Thomas Roberts whenever he does SSM segments like today's, especially when the supporter for SSM marriage is New Hampshire republican and the opponent is Brian Brown in Philly. Around the 4:50 mark Roberts starts getting a bit into the Brown. I particularly enjoy when he asks the "How exactly has this weakened heterosexual marriage? No one cited it in their divorce". Though eye rolling when Brown says fighting same sex marriage is a First Amendment battle, worked in one right wing fight keep slinging it until it sticks in another.

MSNB Interview New Hampshire Bill 3/21

Kem Rixen
Aug 6, 2007

With this turnip I am become death, the destroyer of worlds!


Irishdrunk posted:

Crazy victor! Any reasons why the it got shot down? The huffpo piece makes it sound like repealing rights already given and the amendment for the non-binding referendum were the main causes. It is interesting when you read the comments by some opponents to SSM make resigned statements to it passing like Maryland Senate President Mike Miller's "I am probably on the wrong side of history opposing this". I'm used to most anti-SSM making comments more along the lines "I will fight this to the grave, and then my quiver full of children will carry on in my name!"

New Hampshire (and New England) Republicans are quite a bit different from ones in the rest of the country. I've always felt they're more ideologically driven than religiously so. So, they would see that taking away something they had already given was a terrible idea. As well, New Hampshire with it's libertarian streak is the perfect place for SSM.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001
Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

Kem Rixen posted:

New Hampshire (and New England) Republicans are quite a bit different from ones in the rest of the country. I've always felt they're more ideologically driven than religiously so. So, they would see that taking away something they had already given was a terrible idea. As well, New Hampshire with it's libertarian streak is the perfect place for SSM.

There was also, until fairly recently, enclaves of holdout Rockefeller Republicanism in New England generally and Vermont in particular, which tends to be more inclined towards not joining the larger GOP in these stupid culture war crusades.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

IF U CN RD THS, SCK M FCKNG CCK NTL T SPRTS LL VR R FC

Kem Rixen posted:

New Hampshire (and New England) Republicans are quite a bit different from ones in the rest of the country. I've always felt they're more ideologically driven than religiously so. So, they would see that taking away something they had already given was a terrible idea. As well, New Hampshire with it's libertarian streak is the perfect place for SSM.

Yeah, "Live Free or Die" is actually taken moderately seriously by a lot of people here.

e- I'd have to look at statistics, but religion isn't really a big deal up here.

Corrupt Politician
Aug 8, 2007


Polo-Rican posted:



When Maryland is added to this map, here's how it breaks down by population:
  • 15% of Americans have gay marriage.

  • 37% of Americans have either gay marriage or civil unions.

  • Adding the "limited/enumerated rights" states brings it to 41%.

That's pretty impressive to me considering most these laws were passed in just the last few years. I know that for gay Americans wanting to get married, equality can never come fast enough, but the sweeping pace of progress is pretty undeniable, and in my opinion, cause for optimism.

My prediction is that within a decade or so, conservative politicians will realize that gay rights is an issue they just can't win on, and you'll see fewer and fewer mainstream Republicans willing to fight about it.

UltimoDragonQuest
Oct 5, 2011



Corrupt Politician posted:

When Maryland is added to this map, here's how it breaks down by population:
  • 15% of Americans have gay marriage.

  • 37% of Americans have either gay marriage or civil unions.

  • Adding the "limited/enumerated rights" states brings it to 41%.

That's pretty impressive to me considering most these laws were passed in just the last few years. I know that for gay Americans wanting to get married, equality can never come fast enough, but the sweeping pace of progress is pretty undeniable, and in my opinion, cause for optimism.
In 2009 marriage equality became something expected of Democratic majorities.

2009:
NH, VT, ME passed marriage.
NV and WA passed something similar
CO and WI passed limited rights.

2010:
DC passed marriage.

2011:
NY passed marriage.
RI, DE, IL, HI passed something similar.

2012:
WA, MD passed marriage.
Vetoed in NJ.

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Snow Halation
Dec 29, 2008

µ's - the story we create together


UltimoDragonQuest posted:

...Also there's going to be a second marriage referendum (1192) in Washington that we need to vote No on because it's easy to abuse the process and confuse voters.

Could they legally keep this off the ballot by saying it's redundant? Also, looking at that list, we need a referendum to stop Tim Eyman from proposing referendums.

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