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Jigoku San
Feb 2, 2003



That's understandable. In my High school Computer Science class homework was writing out the C++ on paper worksheets, then implementing in the CS Lab.

In Codewarrior on Mac Performa G3s, ahh good times.

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peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

PEEP THIS...
BITCH!



Install Gentoo posted:

So you actually want programming classes to start costing money, so that students will have to take home something that they may not be able to use? What's wrong with doing what schools with programming classes do now where you are given access to what you need for it for free?

You actually think there's no such thing as poor people in any school with a programming class? Are you high?

What are you trying to imply, that anyone who can't afford buying extra stuff for their kid smokes too much?
Hello, RaspberryPi is a cool low-power computer in a small package that will be a hell of a lot cheaper than a full desktop or laptop PC, EVEN AFTER FACTORING IN THE COST DISPLAY AND PERIPHERALS.

Schools are not going to suddenly be forcing every poverty stricken family to spend the last of their food money on these. Give it a loving rest and stop threadshitting.

peepsalot fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2012 around 00:54

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

How about you smarten up and realize that classes requiring students buying extra stuff is a bad idea for your average school? And stop saying poo poo about how about if parents can't afford to buy this stuff they're bad people.

You said "You are a dirtbag piece of poo poo if you can't afford that for your kid", that's straight up disgusting.


It was explicitly being said that students would have to bring the raspberry pi home to do their assignments - and that's what I have a beef with. Using them in class itself is fine because the school would have everything needed to use them.

The RPi is just one more option of what the people who make decisions in schools can choose from. You can rant and rave and lob ad-homs at me all night long but I don't run any schools nor do I care one way or the other how they set up their computer science curricula.

peepsalot posted:

Schools are not going to suddenly be forcing every poverty stricken family to spend the last of their food money on these. Give it a loving rest and stop threadshitting.

amen.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

Trophy-ko says:
~death to capitalism~
;3


peepsalot posted:

Hello, RaspberryPi cool low-power computer in a small package that will be a hell of a lot cheaper than a full desktop or laptop PC, EVEN AFTER FACTORING IN THE COST DISPLAY AND PERIPHERALS.

Schools are not going to suddenly be forcing every poverty stricken family to spend the last of their food money on these. Give it a loving rest and stop threadshitting.

It's a low cost computer that doesn't have a display, or mouse or keyboard. People would have to buy those if they don't have those or the ones they have don't work with it.

It's not threadshitting to point out that requiring people to use them at home would be a burden on some students dude. I get it you think that just because it's "cheap" that means there's no problems to doing that for a class - you're still wrong.

DNova posted:

The RPi is just one more option of what the people who make decisions in schools can choose from. You can rant and rave and lob ad-homs at me all night long but I don't run any schools nor do I care one way or the other how they set up their computer science curricula.


amen.

Yes thanks mister "poor families are basically scum", which is almost literally what you said. They're a bad choice for the curricula if students are required to take them home and use them there. Period.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Will you please start a thread in D&D or somewhere besides here if you want to debate whether or not parents should be asked to spend money on their offspring's academic supplies? This is not the place.

Mantle
May 15, 2004


How about this for an advantage? Kids learn this platform at school. Some kids like it an decide they want a personal device for themselves. They ask their parents and ok sure it's $35 and it can work with their existing tv.

Vs.

Kids learn on win32 systems and like it. They go home and ask their parents for a personal device. The parents have to decide whether they want to spend $350 on a new walmart pc that takes up space and eventually dies from bloat.

It's just like when people ask me advice about buying powerful vs small laptops. In 5 years both are going to be slow, but the small laptop will still be small.

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Oh yeah.

I'm thinking robotics. An entire platform in the palm of your hands. Today we have Arduino, PICAXE, etc which are faceless programmable microcontrollers that you hook up to your PC to upload your code, then test things out.

With the RPi, the entire thing is the dev environment, with the ability to run monitors and network connectivity right from brains. It's a totally contained environment in the palm of your hand. Be it for yourself, hobby, or students. The GPIO is going to allow this to interface pretty easily to everything that exists today. It sucks less than a watt using 1080p streaming, and far far far less doing simple path finding and adjusting motor speeds.

Philthy fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2012 around 00:59

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

Trophy-ko says:
~death to capitalism~
;3


Mantle posted:

How about this for an advantage? Kids learn this platform at school. Some kids like it an decide they want a personal device for themselves. They ask their parents and ok sure it's $35 and it can work with their existing tv.

Vs.

Kids learn on win32 systems and like it. They go home and ask their parents for a personal device. The parents have to decide whether they want to spend $350 on a new walmart pc that takes up space and eventually dies from bloat.

It's just like when people ask me advice about buying powerful vs small laptops. In 5 years both are going to be slow, but the small laptop will still be small.

See that works fine! It's the requiring the kids who want to take a programming class to bring it home and all that that would be a problem. You feel me? I mean most programming classes in schools right now are on Windows PCs but you don't see the schools requiring kids to run them at home. If they were, it'd be even worse.

Too Poetic
Nov 28, 2008

by angerbeet


DNova posted:

I said sports, not gym class. Those are different things, you see. Where I grew up (lower-middle class at best), sports all cost quite a lot to join. Learning an instrument, you could RENT the school's crappy stuff every year or buy your own. Again, not cheap. And every year I remember my parents shelling out at least $40-100 on field trips, most of which were totally worthless, not to mention random required garbage (plastic recorders, books, etc).

I guess you went to more affluent set of schools than I did.

I keep saying that keyboards and mice are cheap if they don't have them (I've said this like four times can you please do me a favor and read my posts more carefully?), not that everyone will have them at home... you keep saying that not me. I even said "fifty dollars" in my last post to help you understand that I am including those items in the outlay.

And I don't think it's out of touch and "nerdy" that I expect everyone has a television.
You have never been poor or been around poor people in your life have you?

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Too Poetic posted:

You have never been poor or been around poor people in your life have you?

Yes you and Install Gentoo have me pegged. I actually am Mitt Romney in real life.

Gehenomm
May 1, 2008

Ask me about hitting on mathematicians.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro

This was the poo poo and i'm all for getting my dumbass of a daughter to learn programming like her dumbass of a dad did so long ago.

I'm all for supporting the computer class concept.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Gehenomm posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro

This was the poo poo and i'm all for getting my dumbass of a daughter to learn programming like her dumbass of a dad did so long ago.

I'm all for supporting the computer class concept.

Yeah I really, really wish I had had an opportunity like that when I was a kid.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006
CRYBABY FUCK


DNova posted:

Yeah I really, really wish I had had an opportunity like that when I was a kid.

You realize that, adjusted for inflation, a base-model BBC Micro cost 703? You have the opportunity, right now, to buy your kid a computer that costs half as much as a BBC Micro did, and then you can load it up with free professional development tools to boot. A sufficiently motivated kid can peel apart and play with the source code to a modern operating system, and get advice from professionals in the field while they do it. There is no need to go back to some mythical "golden age" of C64s and BBC Micros, because the opportunities available today are infinitely better.

The problem here is not a lack of computers, or a lack of tools. It is the lack of worthwhile programming curricula, an attitude on the part of teachers and administrators that programming is not a worthwhile way to spend precious classroom hours, and a lack of qualified instructors. Putting all your hope in "if we just buy them this gadget and let them play with it, things will somehow work out and they'll all want to program!" is silly. Want to give kids the opportunity to learn how computers work at a fundamental level? Great. Teach them, don't build a field of dreams.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Space Gopher posted:

You realize that, adjusted for inflation, a base-model BBC Micro cost 703? You have the opportunity, right now, to buy your kid a computer that costs half as much as a BBC Micro did, and then you can load it up with free professional development tools to boot. A sufficiently motivated kid can peel apart and play with the source code to a modern operating system, and get advice from professionals in the field while they do it. There is no need to go back to some mythical "golden age" of C64s and BBC Micros, because the opportunities available today are infinitely better.

The problem here is not a lack of computers, or a lack of tools. It is the lack of worthwhile programming curricula, an attitude on the part of teachers and administrators that programming is not a worthwhile way to spend precious classroom hours, and a lack of qualified instructors. Putting all your hope in "if we just buy them this gadget and let them play with it, things will somehow work out and they'll all want to program!" is silly. Want to give kids the opportunity to learn how computers work at a fundamental level? Great. Teach them, don't build a field of dreams.

Agreed with all this.

SpaceAceJase
Nov 8, 2008

and you
have proved
to be...

a real shitty poster,
and a real james


So which supplier should I order through to get one of these to Australia?

Tiger.Bomb
Jan 21, 2012


I can't believe these kittens are still arguing. Someone get the spray bottle.

IMO: Good for learning, not as revolutionary as they're hoping (for a lot of the reasons cat#2 said) but since that's not what I care to use it for, I am pretty excited. For now my arm development board is a Gameboy Advance.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Tiger.Bomb posted:

I can't believe these kittens are still arguing. Someone get the spray bottle.

IMO: Good for learning, not as revolutionary as they're hoping (for a lot of the reasons cat#2 said) but since that's not what I care to use it for, I am pretty excited. For now my arm development board is a Gameboy Advance.

we're actually the same cat

oRenj9
Aug 3, 2004

Who loves oRenj soda?!?


Is anybody looking to use these as emulator boxes? I'm hoping to get one of these running (S)NES, Genesis and PSX emulators. Are there currently any good front-ends for Linux that boot directly into a 10ft UI for good navigation?

Jigoku San
Feb 2, 2003



^^ xbmc will have a port and it can launch stuff like emulators.

DNova posted:

we're actually the same cat

OK so I'm not THAT crazy...yet.


It managed to get made because its a charity education foundation, but I'd say 95% are going to end up as media boxes. Like mine will.

The other 4% are people who have no idea what it really is and want to do retarded poo poo like make their own tablets and replace their computers with it.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003




Jesus so much fishmeching in there. Can we get back to talking about Raspberry pi?

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Star War Sex Butt posted:

Jesus so much fishmeching in there. Can we get back to talking about Raspberry pi?

I unironically love fishmech

edit: and the Raspberry Pi

Gism0
Mar 20, 2003

huuuh?

SpaceAceJase posted:

So which supplier should I order through to get one of these to Australia?

RS has an australian site:

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/...?id=raspberrypi

Though I registered Interest a few days ago and haven't heard anything yet.

My Rhythmic Crotch
Jan 13, 2011



Does anyone know how difficult programming the GPIO will be? I will find this much more interesting if the GPIO is easier to work with than it "normally" is in Linux.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008


My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

Does anyone know how difficult programming the GPIO will be? I will find this much more interesting if the GPIO is easier to work with than it "normally" is in Linux.

http://brew-j2me.blogspot.com/2010/...user-space.html

doesn't look all that bad to me, but I imagine someone will provide nice Python wrappers and suchlike specifically for the Pi if they don't exist already.

Vlad the Retailer
Oct 16, 2011

"The cosmonauts were transfixed with wonderment as the sun set - over the Earth - there lucklessly, untethered Comrade Todd on fire."

According to this video, using the GPIO is just a matter of writing to/reading from sys/class/gpio, and Python wrappers already exist.

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003


There is some GPIO example code in the wiki as well.

http://elinux.org/Rpi_Low-level_peripherals

sharktamer
Oct 30, 2011

Shark tamer ridiculous

oRenj9 posted:

Is anybody looking to use these as emulator boxes? I'm hoping to get one of these running (S)NES, Genesis and PSX emulators. Are there currently any good front-ends for Linux that boot directly into a 10ft UI for good navigation?

PSX is probably a bit ambitious, but the rest would be fantastic.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



These poor guys can't catch a break: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781

snorch
Jul 27, 2009


sharktamer posted:

PSX is probably a bit ambitious, but the rest would be fantastic.

I don't know, PCSX seems to run quite well on similarly humble hardware...

movax
Aug 30, 2008



DNova posted:

These poor guys can't catch a break: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781

Hm, they must have used turn-key assembly or something for that to have happened. Otherwise, if they sent the factory kits of parts, it would be purely their fault in sending the wrong connector (or sending both types for some reason).

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



movax posted:

Hm, they must have used turn-key assembly or something for that to have happened. Otherwise, if they sent the factory kits of parts, it would be purely their fault in sending the wrong connector (or sending both types for some reason).

Does anyone know exactly what these magnets do? I've been googleing trying to figure out electrically what is different but am failing.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Chuu posted:

Does anyone know exactly what these magnets do? I've been googleing trying to figure out electrically what is different but am failing.

Jacks with "magnetics" included help filter out common-mode noise and improve the signal in general. That allows for simpler circuit design on the PCB.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Chuu posted:

Does anyone know exactly what these magnets do? I've been googleing trying to figure out electrically what is different but am failing.

Usually the Ethernet PHY has a magnetic isolation transformer (made by companies like Pulse, I guarantee you've seen a black rectangular slab of plastic with the Pulse logo on it) immediately behind the jack. This is for the four MDI pairs. Jacks with integral magnetics eliminate need for an external transformer which eats PCB space. Either way, the magnetics act to isolate the system from the Ethernet network, so ideally dangerous voltages/transients don't hose you, as well as improving EMI performance.

On a Pulse jack like the JW0-0006, the effective circuit is 1:1 isolation transformers (center-tapped to shield and ground respectively) followed by common-mode chokes (all inside the jack). ESD diodes are still generally discrete AFAIK.

Here is the datasheet for a common integrated-magnetic Pulse GigE jack, and here is a common discrete magnetic transformer you would need if your jack lacks magnetics. Pulse doesn't seem to make jacks without integrated magnetics and I'm a bit lazy to go find an example of one without magnetics to link its data sheet.

movax fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2012 around 22:36

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Thanks for the reply, I was just staring at a Intel CT adapter at work a couple of days ago and wondering what that big box was.

frumpsnake
Jan 30, 2001

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil.

So launch-day orders have just slipped again...from March to August.

DNova
Jan 11, 2006



Where do you see that? The element14 orders were supposed to ship in early April. At least, when they offered me an order, it was supposed to ship April 3 or something. I didn't take it though.

Lukano
Apr 28, 2003



Yeah I keep pretty up to date on the rPi website, forums, and twitter - but I've seen no mention of August. My element14 order page also still shows April 2nd as the (estimated) ship date.

frumpsnake
Jan 30, 2001

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil.

My element14 said Mar 31. As of today it says August 16.

There's a thread here with people in the same info:
http://www.element14.com/community/...l/re-ship-dates

And a cursory glance around Twitter says the same thing:
https://twitter.com/rglenn/status/185049599269023744
https://twitter.com/y0shiy0shi/stat...037050377015296
https://twitter.com/damienp/status/185022650115035136
https://twitter.com/Haaner/status/184170714939654144
https://twitter.com/jpmens/status/183268788840570881
https://twitter.com/web_martin/stat...174108643737601
https://twitter.com//jejernig/status/182636094465122304

Only one post on the forums though.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/ge...ed-to-august-16

Come August I won't even be living in this country, so I'm going to have to cancel.

Best launch ever.

frumpsnake fucked around with this message at Mar 28, 2012 around 17:20

jack.
Aug 31, 2001



Hahaha I'm never going to actually get this thing, am I?

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DNova
Jan 11, 2006



If this is true I can't even comprehend how big of a fuckup this whole launch has been.

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