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BobTheJanitor posted:I'm not getting why you would want to bank points. Are you talking about stat points? Wouldn't you basically just put those in whatever is good for your class? Or are you saying to save them until you get armor that needs certain stats and then spend them? If I get armor that needs a lot of strength points on a caster, I'm just going to sell it, not waste a bunch of points in a stat I don't need. I don't want to bank skill points. It's an unavoidable part of the skill and ability system torchlight is lifting from diablo. Use torchlight 1's Destroyer as an example. The first active ability in the berserker tree is Slash attack, which is a simple frontal cleave. You have the option to put points into it but this is a Bad Decision because if you choose not to spend any points on it, it means down the road you can put those points into Devastate. Devastate causes the destroyer to " rush forward in a flurry of powerful attacks using all equipped melee weapons." Skills (some skills at least) get incrementally better as you continue to add points them, but end game skills are objectively better than early game skills with the same amount of points invested into them every time with the only exception being passive abilities like critical strike or dual wield or treasure hunter etc. Stat points are miserable, particularly magic-user classes because most armor has strength and defense requirements. A new player will use their stat points to boost hp or mana - which would seem like a good idea until they find a rare plate helmet of omnipotence and get to throw it in the stash for 10 or so levels until they have grinded enough strength to be allowed to wear the item they own. Normal Adult Human fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 21:56 |
| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:49 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 18:28 |
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emoticon posted:There have been more posts about D3 in this thread than about TL2, which is not a good sign. I'm probably going to wait for TL2 to drop in price like I did with TL1. Wasn't it like 20 bucks on launch? That was a steal.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:52 |
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Mokinokaro posted:Diablo 2 had a huge skilltree with quite a few useless skills so it somewhat made sense to get to a decent level before spending points so all of your points would go towards the good ones. You don't really need to bank points for 90% of viable builds post-1.10, and the remaining 10% are mostly specialized stuff that you'd only try once you had other characters to twink off of and/or someone to rush you to higher levels. And post-1.13 you have respecs which makes the entire question irrelevant.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:52 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You don't really need to bank points for 90% of viable builds post-1.10, and the remaining 10% are mostly specialized stuff that you'd only try once you had other characters to twink off of and/or someone to rush you to higher levels. I'd be shocked if T2 didn't have a respec built in OR a simple respec mod out within a week of launch.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:56 |
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Retro42 posted:I'd be shocked if T2 didn't have a respec built in OR a simple respec mod out within a week of launch. Yeah, same here. It would be nice if they also implement a skill system where early skills stay relevant all game (with enough points invested) and later skills simply provide specialized tools or combinations, but as long as you can switch points around either works well enough.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:58 |
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QUICK NERD BOTTLE posted:Wasn't it like 20 bucks on launch? That was a steal. I want to say it was 15 or 20, yeah. I bought it straight from Runic on day 1. I definitely got my money's worth. $20 for TL2 with all the coop possibilities and the likelihood that the modding community will be even bigger this time is really exciting. I may even dip my toes into it. Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yeah, same here. It would be nice if they also implement a skill system where early skills stay relevant all game (with enough points invested) and later skills simply provide specialized tools or combinations, but as long as you can switch points around either works well enough. Synergies did this well in Diablo, I feel. They also made putting together a build relatively straightforward. Fergus Mac Roich fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 22:04 |
| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:59 |
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Synergies really did nothing to increase diversity of gameplay. Instead of spending 20 points on frozen orb the sorceress is spending 80 points on frozen orb.Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yeah, same here. It would be nice if they also implement a skill system where early skills stay relevant all game (with enough points invested) and later skills simply provide specialized tools or combinations, but as long as you can switch points around either works well enough. Yeah it'd be really cool if there was a way to modify the way skills work to be useful for the rest of the game. Normal Adult Human fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 22:03 |
| # ? Apr 8, 2012 21:59 |
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Honestly stat levelling is a bit redundant in this kind of game. You could probably just automate stat allocation while levelling and keep things skill focused.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:02 |
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:Synergies did this well in Diablo, I feel. They also made putting together a build relatively straightforward. Synergies were a good idea implemented really badly, I think. They made putting together a build "straightforward" by forcing you to only take synergy-paired skills if you wanted to get anywhere in the higher difficulties. A better system might be to remove standalone passive skills altogether, and instead give low-level active skills a second, passive component. This both gets rid of the boringness of spending your levelup on "1.5% more damage with swords" and gives you much more freedom in your skill selection.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:03 |
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Yeah, stat leveling has kinda reached the point of being an outdated feature. Only problem is too many classic ARPG fans would bitch and moan if they made it purely automated.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:03 |
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Also the fact that you mostly put all your points into one attribute in D2 anyway.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:04 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Synergies were a good idea implemented really badly, I think. They made putting together a build "straightforward" by forcing you to only take synergy-paired skills if you wanted to get anywhere in the higher difficulties. I also like the idea of a skill system where, say, synergies act sort of like runes and change the effect of a skill. So let's say you put 5 points into Lesser Fireball only to find it outright replaced with Baleful Fireball, but points in Baleful Fireball give Lesser Fireball an AoE weakness to fire effect. Something more interesting than that, surely, but it would be cool, I think, and keep early skills relevant. Retro42 posted:Yeah, stat leveling has kinda reached the point of being an outdated feature. Only problem is too many classic ARPG fans would bitch and moan if they made it purely automated. People bitch about its removal in D3 but it's totally fine.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:05 |
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Retro42 posted:Yeah, stat leveling has kinda reached the point of being an outdated feature. Only problem is too many classic ARPG fans would bitch and moan if they made it purely automated. These people can play path of exile and be dazzled by the giant loving constellation stat labyrinth that has three viable paths. There's over ten trillion ways to assign +10 int to a character!
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:06 |
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What if, instead of outdating skills, each one had several tiers you could level through. Basically a more complex version of ME3's skill system could fit this kind of game. Basic skills, at higher tiers, can be evolved to emphasize certain components (damage vs. range, elemental attribute, etc.)
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:06 |
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Mokinokaro posted:What if, instead of outdating skills, each one had several tiers you could level through. You mean like runes?
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:08 |
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:I also like the idea of a skill system where, say, synergies act sort of like runes and change the effect of a skill. So let's say you put 5 points into Lesser Fireball only to find it outright replaced with Baleful Fireball, but points in Baleful Fireball give Lesser Fireball an AoE weakness to fire effect. Something more interesting than that, surely, but it would be cool, I think, and keep early skills relevant. I always liked how TQ did it where later levels unlocked secondary boosts to skills. You'd still be leveling that level 1 skill, but also unlocking additional features as you level up. Link: http://www.titancalc.com/ Just look at the different classes in here. Marksmanship is a great example. Starts as a pure damage boost but can gain piercing and explosive arrows as it levels up. Retro42 fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 22:14 |
| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:08 |
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:You mean like runes? Maybe? My time with the D3 beta was fairly short as I found something about the game offputting.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:09 |
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QUICK NERD BOTTLE posted:Wasn't it like 20 bucks on launch? That was a steal. I bought the original for $10 I think. I'll buy TL2 once it hits $20. Mokinokaro posted:What if, instead of outdating skills, each one had several tiers you could level through. In lieu of stat allocation, they should have things you can slot into different skills that adds or chances effects as you level up, and skills should scale with weapon damage so skills don't become obsolete. VVV Awesome. I might as well get it at launch. VVV emoticon fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 22:31 |
| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:17 |
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emoticon posted:I bought the original for $10 I think. I'll buy TL2 once it hits $20. Last I heard TL2 will be $20 at release.
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:18 |
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Retro42 posted:Last I heard TL2 will be $20 at release. TL2 will be $20 at launch, yes. TL1 was the same price at launch. I got TL1 on Steam when it went on sale for $5. 
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 22:19 |
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Mokinokaro posted:Maybe? My time with the D3 beta was fairly short as I found something about the game offputting. You'll be waiting a while for TL2, might as well boot up the ol' D3 beta to check it out if you haven't seen the Rune overhaul. Basically, some levels you don't unlock a new skill but rather a rune to a pre-existing skill. Some runes just increase the damage, decrease cooldown or power cost but others completely change the skill. For example, Freezing Ray can turn from channeled line into a channeled point blank AOE around you. Meteor can be changed to ice damage and leave behind a patch of frost that slows, into a shower of smaller meteors that do slightly less individual damage or just leave a burning patch on the ground for longer duration. Cleave on the Barbarian can be runed to do more damage, cause enemies to explode on death dealing more aoe damage, snare enemies by 80% for 1 second or knockback on critical hit, dealing damage to enemies where they land. The only restrictions are that you can only have one rune active at a time (or none at all, if that pleases you) and that you can only have 6 skills equipped at any given time (which can be changed out of combat but that invokes like a 30 second cooldown on that slot).
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| # ? Apr 8, 2012 23:16 |
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Looking in my Steam list, I only played Torchlight for 36 hours. Was there a demo? I'm sure I spent a lot longer than that. Regardless, I still feel like I got my money's worth with it and I'll be getting Torchlight 2 on release (or maybe the first time it goes on sale if I feel poor). I read that the system requirements are similar to Torchlight which is good news, I can probably talk my girlfriend into playing co-op. I'm going to start playing Torchlight again, are there any must-have mods? e.g. best/most complete high res texture pack or any nice gameplay/interface improvements.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 00:03 |
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I feel like the issues of stat allocation and skill point banking are only really issues insofar as they're set in stone. If you can easily reset your stats/skills so that you can never really screw up, then it's goes from "OMG WHY DID YOU IMPLEMENT THIS DESIGN IN THE YEAR 2012" to "It's a little annoying but you'll get it eventually"
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 00:28 |
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IT's also only a problem for min-maxers. You can "gently caress up" stat allocation in all the games and still win.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 00:31 |
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I've actually always wondered what proportion of players actually continued on to nightmare and hell modes in Diablo I and II. Certainly bad stat choice would utterly gently caress you there, but it was never much of a concern to me as despite having sunk hundreds of hours into both games over time (1 moreso than 2), I've never continued past the end of normal mode.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 00:35 |
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Reveilled posted:I've actually always wondered what proportion of players actually continued on to nightmare and hell modes in Diablo I and II. Certainly bad stat choice would utterly gently caress you there, but it was never much of a concern to me as despite having sunk hundreds of hours into both games over time (1 moreso than 2), I've never continued past the end of normal mode. Personally I would play to the end of Nightmare consistently and have most of my fun there, especially since you could go up to level 75 or so and thus have most of your skill build and item build completed, but I'd quickly lose my taste for D2's Hell difficulty because the hard immunities just sucked the fun out of most characters.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 00:50 |
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Unless you are a paladin in which case you don't even notice any difference between nightmare and hell.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 01:17 |
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The one time I tried to clear D2 solo was as an assassin. Duriel was impossible, I'd die in a quarter second. Putting points into stats is an outdated mechanic. You'd basically max one stat, every time. Pointless.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 02:39 |
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What happened to the feature where you could meet the stat requirement on the armor or just be a certain level and the armor is automatically equipable at that point? Always thought that was pretty nifty way of doing it.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 03:59 |
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Metal Meltdown posted:What happened to the feature where you could meet the stat requirement on the armor or just be a certain level and the armor is automatically equipable at that point? Always thought that was pretty nifty way of doing it. Otherwise, you have no say in how your stats get allocated when you level up, at least in the traditional sense, and "stacking" a particular stat you like, such as Strength for more DPS or Stamina/Vitality for more hit-points means looking for items with a lot of those stats and wearing them. It's quite similar to a traditional-but-with-resets stat system, in that you're never locked into anything. The D3/WoW system requires you to actually find the items with the stats you want first, though.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 06:51 |
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If they put in support for the 360 controller on PC, I'll buy this so hard. Ever since playing Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance on Xbox I've felt this style of game works well with gamepads.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 09:16 |
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I bought Torchlight when it came out for 360, don't know why I never picked it up on PC. Anyway, it was way back when I didn't have an HD tv, so naturally, because I couldn't read poo poo, I didn't really get into the game that much. What I did experience felt very, very easy. I can't remember, is there a super-hard mode or something? I love games that just kick my rear end. I'm not at my 360 now to check if there is, but after reading this thread, it looks like I missed out on picking Nightmare mode? Or is that a Diablo 2 thing only? (I've never played Diablo 2  ) I'll definitely be picking the game up again and getting through it very soon.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 12:05 |
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I can't remember, is there a super-hard mode or something? I love games that just kick my rear end. I'm not at my 360 now to check if there is, but after reading this thread, it looks like I missed out on picking Nightmare mode? Or is that a Diablo 2 thing only? (I've never played Diablo 2 It has a difficulty slider, but Torchlight's "Hard" is "easy for anyone who's ever played Diablo" and Very Hard just cranks up monster damage and HP until the game stop being fun. There's also a hardcore (i.e. permadeath) mode. Diablo 2 works differently; instead of traditional difficulty levels, it basically has a New Game+ option where you play the game over again with higher-level monsters. You can do it twice and the higher difficulties are unlocked per-character each time you beat the previous difficulty.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 15:01 |
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Has to be said that gameplay in Diablo 2's higher difficulties is substantially different, since you start with potentially all your skills opened. Oh, and immunities.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 17:37 |
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I can't remember, is there a super-hard mode or something? I love games that just kick my rear end. I'm not at my 360 now to check if there is, but after reading this thread, it looks like I missed out on picking Nightmare mode? Or is that a Diablo 2 thing only? (I've never played Diablo 2 The concept of "nightmare mode" isn't specific to Diablo 2, but the gameplay does change slightly in Diablo 2 (and 3, apparently) on higher difficulties. I don't know how it will work in Torchlight 2 since there hasn't been too much information about that kind of stuff. I assume it will be some kind of standard monster health and damage scaling.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 19:34 |
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I'm sorry if this thread isn't appropriate to ask this type of question, but I've finally gotten around to playing the original Torchlight after getting it cheap at the last Steam Summer Sale and I've run into a bit of a problem. I've taken a pretty shallow approach to the game (as I did with Diablo and Diablo II) - I haven't really bothered with transmutation or enchantment at all and my approach to gear has pretty much been "this gear has bigger/more bonuses so I'll use it" and my stat leveling has been focused entirely on offensive magic with nothing at all in the other two options. Playing on Hard, all the way through to the Lost Fortress has been a breeze - my Mage has been able to take on a multitude of enemies at once and wipe them out handily. I rarely needed to use potions because my mana regenerated so quickly and I could just throw a good heal onto myself. My pet also rarely lost health and we bashed our way through the levels without much in the way of problems. But once we got through to the Black Palace that all changed. Suddenly my dog is getting smashed, I feel like I'm getting one-shot by opponents and my magic attacks are taking forever to kill anything. I'm getting swamped as soon as I enter a room and unless I'm spamming health potions (which happily I have a large number of) I'm dying incredibly quickly. Is there a noted lift in the difficulty curve at this point of the game or is this just my shallow approach to gear/leveling/stats coming back to bite me in the rear end? I'm still able to progress through the game but it has become frustratingly stop/start as I struggle to clear a room, heal up myself and the dog, sort through the inventory and then get swamped in the next room.
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| # ? Apr 11, 2012 23:23 |
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The Dark Palace can be a problem because the main enemies (Dragonkin and Dark Zealots) focus on heavy fire and poison/lightning attacks which are way more powerful than the same damage types encountered earlier. In past levels you could get through without worrying about elemental protection on your armor but you have to be mindful of it here, so go through your stash for anything anti-fire/poison. Enchantment helps a lot but the vanilla system is bullshit since you're chancing a disenchantment - install Torchleech and get the 100% enchantment mod. e: you should probably also have some elemental protection spells in your inventory, so use those as well. Summon minion spells are great too since they take some of the pressure off of you and your pet, spam the hell out of the end-tier ones. Der Luftwaffle fucked around with this message at Apr 12, 2012 around 00:01 |
| # ? Apr 11, 2012 23:50 |
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Thanks, ironically my Dog has all the elemental protection spells, I never bothered with them. I'll look into those mods, I did notice the Dark Zealots were doing the most damage when they managed to shoot off those giant blasts of green energy. Normally I can wipe them out pretty quickly, but not if they've got those little green skeleton bastards getting in the way. This may be why I was taking so much damage.
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| # ? Apr 12, 2012 00:20 |
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New pet reveal; http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...d&v=CbWcDSa6gps 
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| # ? Apr 13, 2012 20:28 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 18:28 |
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I said come in! posted:New pet reveal; http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...d&v=CbWcDSa6gps In the PAX gameplay video they explain that the new pet is based on their office dog. They even videotaped it to get all the animations right so they would fit the manerisms of their real dog. Really cant't wait to get TL2. Got TL1 for less than 5 bucks at a steam sale and got 150 hours of gameplay out of it I really loved Diablo 1 but never got into Diablo 2 and consequently don't care much about Diablo 3. Also D3 will be 55€ (72$!!! WTF) when it comes out. I'd rather give my cash to the the guys at Runic. I feel like I still owe them money for TL1 
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| # ? Apr 14, 2012 17:15 |
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