Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«257 »
  • Post
  • Reply
MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Vire posted:

Wizards basically has no idea how to do software development and I don't think Hasbro gives the DnD franchise enough capital to hire a competent department or outsource it to a software development company.

They did do that. The lead developer on the project was the victim of a murder suicide which killed any momentum the project had. On top of that they actually did the smart thing and actually used one of the open source programs of the foundation of the project that got canceled.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Vire
Nov 4, 2005

All hail the king.


MadScientistWorking posted:

They did do that. The lead developer on the project was the victim of a murder suicide which killed any momentum the project had. On top of that they actually did the smart thing and actually used one of the open source programs of the foundation of the project that got canceled.

Okay I can understand that delaying things but derailing a project for four years because some one died?

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Vire posted:

Okay I can understand that delaying things but derailing a project for four years because some one died?
It wasn't. The project was effectively dead at the point.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009



Also you don't need a VTT when you have the TOTM.

Vire
Nov 4, 2005

All hail the king.


MadScientistWorking posted:

It wasn't. The project was effectively dead at the point.

But it clearly wasn't because they kept promising it would come and it did make it to beta. So people where being paid to work on it.

MadScientistWorking
Jun 23, 2010

"I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."


Vire posted:

But it clearly wasn't because they kept promising it would come and it did make it to beta. So people where being paid to work on it.
Not really. Believe it or not they bought out an entire program and just threw it into some mechanical shape. Ironically that is why the VirtualDaaive fork was created more or less because the original program no longer existed.

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

Stole? Made up? What's the Difference?

homullus posted:

You guys are at the point where you're falling over yourselves to find ways to hate on the column. He's talking about the presentation of the effects, and yes, they really do diverge.

Compare the wizard's spells in AD&D and 4e. Compare the first Monster Manual in each. Recall the wailing of the grognards at the formatting of powers and items and monsters in 4e -- "there's no story!" "there's no flavor!". He is promising that they can have both balanced, clear mechanical effects and delicious metagamey story effects. Regardless of whether he can accomplish this to the satisfaction of those who feel that there is One True Way on either side, I think he has a blog-valid point: it's something designers need to think about when designing a game.

Yeah after reading the first paragraph I was ready to comment "This is a false dichotomy, like saying "This is a poorly written article, or Mearls is a bad designer.""
However he quite clearly says it's a false dichotomy in the second half of the article and both fluff and crunch have roles in the game.

Of course I think Cirno was pretty right about this point:

ProfessorCirno posted:

I think the main reason is that Mearls absolutely, 100% believes everything he has written. D&D Next is absolutely going to unite the fanbase and be the wonderful edition for everyone. D&D fans don't hate each other and nobody hates other editions, they're just misinformed about things. We're all one big happy family and by golly his edition will be the holiday dinner that unites us all!

homullus
Mar 27, 2009



It is definitely part of his job to be publicly optimistic about it and to sound sincere about it, whether he believes it or not. Developers Of Things as well as People At The Helm have to do that. While you may appreciate greater honesty about its feasibility or a more nuanced view of 5e's future, 5e's future is still even worse if he comes out and says "ehhhh . . it's probably not gonna work, sorry guys, but we gotta make rent somehow."

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




I'm honestly wondering a little if the true thesis of the article wasn't "Crap, it's Monday and we have nothing new to show anybody. Let's just say nothing very elaborately."

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.


Well if you want them to say something, in a more straightforward fashion, there's a new Rule of Three, as if by magic, here to say "gently caress you fighters."

http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ro3/20120710

quote:

Is the plan with D&D Next for different classes to have different attacks/actions they can do when using the tactical rules modules? Or is the plan for the module not to really add any more options/complexity to characters?

This is an area where we learned a lot from the way that the math behind the 4E game worked out, and built on those concepts for D&D Next. Daily refresh rates on resources do not cause short adventuring days; the ratio between the number of those resources available and the length of time it takes to spend those resources is the cause. Since we're focusing more on the adventure (and the adventuring day, as a point of resource refreshing), we want to make sure that characters have a good ratio of available daily resources to what we want to be an acceptable length of the adventuring day for each level. Essentially, when we design a class, we try to build that class toward a target adventuring day, and to make sure that if the class has daily expendable resources, it has enough of them so that it will reach the "end of day" target around the same time it starts running low on expendable resources.

Alongside that, we want to supplement a class's daily resources with other options that feel just as good and appropriate to the player as spending one of the limited resources. This is one arena where at-will spells come in very handy; one of the biggest reasons that spellcasters often burned through their spells very quickly was a desire to always be doing something magical (thus, living up to the promise of a class whose schtick is spellcasting). At-will spells let you do magical things and thus reduce the temptation to burn daily resources. For those classes who don't have daily resources, we're still balancing the character against the length of that expected adventuring day, using hit points as our main (but not only) indicator of when that character's day is finished. This all ties into the core math behind our game, which is built on expectations about everything from accuracy to the life expectancy of a monster to the number of rounds a character can go toe-to-toe with any given monster and keep on fighting.

Daily spells: A tracking metric on par with "has more HP."

eth0.n
Jun 1, 2012


Also, Wizards having at-will spells will somehow make them not want to cast their encounter-winning spells at every opportunity, and rest as early and as often as the DM will permit them.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003



No, see, that's the thing. Wizards will be able to memorize as many daily spells as an adventuring day contains encounters, because they will only ever need to cast one per encounter, by design.

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Ferrinus posted:

No, see, that's the thing. Wizards will be able to memorize as many daily spells as an adventuring day contains encounters, because they will only ever need to cast one per encounter, by design.

This... makes way too much sense. Yes, that's exactly the rationale.

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Necrofamicom posted:

Over the course of its lifespan, Magic: The Gathering has only had two real rules revisions. The first was was with Sixth Edition and was fairly major, eliminating an entire card type and folding it into another, and changing the way the new category of spells interacted as they were being cast. The second was more minor and just elimated a bit of combat cheese and clarified some rules, but also added a bunch of new types to old, out of print cards.

Yeah here's the thing. Two major overhauls of the rules since 1993 isn't really that different from D&D. That's AD&D -> 3.x -> 4e.

eth0.n
Jun 1, 2012


fosborb posted:

Yeah here's the thing. Two major overhauls of the rules since 1993 isn't really that different from D&D. That's AD&D -> 3.x -> 4e.

Those "major overhauls" are incredibly minor compared to those edition changes. MTG has remained basically the same game throughout its history. AD&D, 3.X, and 4E are much different games.

The significant thing is that cards from 1993 still work basically the same way in the modern game. Whereas splat-books from AD&D and 3.X are worthless in 4E as anything but fluff inspiration.

Elfgames
Sep 11, 2011


eth0.n posted:

Whereas splat-books from AD&D and 3.X are worthless in 4E as anything but fluff inspiration.

So they work about the same now as they did then.

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011



Rule of Three posted:

if the DM wants to run a single, massive combat encounter that eats up the whole budget for the adventuring day, that's fine! However, thanks to the XP budgeting system and the adventure design guidelines, this should mean that the single massive encounter lasts about as long as a more traditional adventuring day with several smaller skirmishes, thus keeping adventures paced correctly and the classes balanced against one another.

"Rolling several encounters worth of monsters into one just means that the battle will just last longer, no other effects, no sir"

DnD Next: Design by Wishful Thinking.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest! The rightest!


IGNORE THIS I AM DUMB

WhitemageofDOOM
Sep 13, 2010

... It's magic. I ain't gotta explain shit.

Vire posted:

We are just going back to the dumb well you ran into an ancient wyrm in a level 1 cave you where not suppose to fight him. It's not my fault he lives there.

Lemme say this as a hex crawl GM.

I will include high level creatures around the area in a hex crawl right from the bat. But there will be ways for the party to find out since it's well the strongest dude in the area, everyone talks about it. And it has reasons for being there, namely being a threat the players need to avoid or perhaps run away from if they meet it to early.

Necrofamicom posted:

I think this is the model they want to use on D&D. Create an underlying structure and find a way to monetize it with new products. Every new Magic set introduces new rules and changes the metagame, but the underlying rules are relatively unchanged.

Here is the thing, mtg doesn't sell itself on new content(rules/cards/feats/powers), that's what you buy sure. But what the game is selling is new enviroments.

It's selling a game where cleric, fighter and thief are banned, but their roles are filled by battlemind, ardent and hexblade.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Winson_Paine
Oct 27, 2000

Oh no, the Grumpy Old Troll! Maybe if you solve his riddle he will leave you alone.


What a wretched pile of poo poo this thread is. It is time for the 2nd Edition of this thread, because the threadshitting creep has spread all over this one.

  • Post
  • Reply
«257 »