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Mr. Sharps
Jul 30, 2006

The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.

Broken Knees Club posted:

As someone who used both Hammer and every Bethesda toolset since Oblivion, I assure you, it's a lot easier to make something that looks amazing in Hammer than in CK.

I've used both as well, and it's really all down to personal skill. the creation kit is easier to pick up and use, in my opinion, while hammer offers a lot more creative freedom.


Azure_Horizon posted:

I know that Source has its limits, but Bethesda still have some serious issues when it comes to generating a large world, and have for a long, long time.

Bethesda needs to have a chat with the guys behind Just Cause 2, that game is magic.

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Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Lowtax


Mr. Sharps posted:

I've used both as well, and it's really all down to personal skill. the creation kit is easier to pick up and use, in my opinion, while hammer offers a lot more creative freedom.


Bethesda needs to have a chat with the guys behind Just Cause 2, that game is magic.

Most perfect game ever? yes.

ninety
Mar 13, 2007



Am I a dork for playing Dark Descent by candlelight so I can preserve my eyesight while I preserve the atmosphere? Because I kinda feel like a dork.

Ddraig
Sep 5, 2005

Sits with a full house

Azure_Horizon posted:

Most perfect game ever? yes.

I really think that the Just Cause 2 guys could make a poo poo ton of money just by creating really awesome looking worlds for other people so that those other people can just focus on filling it up with cool poo poo and not have to worry about creating the world.

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005



That's one reason this project is so amazing. Frictional working with thechineseroom is literally a pipe dream I had. Literally.

I'm so glad Frictional are independent, the 'industry' would never do something like this, which is why we never see Bethesda hooking up with the Just Cause 2 developers or whatever.

Seashell Salesman
Aug 4, 2005


the black husserl posted:

That's one reason this project is so amazing. Frictional working with thechineseroom is literally a pipe dream I had. Literally.

I'm so glad Frictional are independent, the 'industry' would never do something like this, which is why we never see Bethesda hooking up with the Just Cause 2 developers or whatever.

What about the time Bethesda got Obsidian to make a FO game?

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Seashell Salesman posted:

Not disagreeing but people in this thread have been speculating about the machinery in the concept art being part of an industrial vitae factory. Just saying I hope that's not what it is, because I want an original scary story.

It IS a 'sequel' - or spinoff. Some people complain that there might be too little connecting them, and some people say there might be too much. I mean.. Vitae, if it exists, is a pretty horrifyingly useful substance, and I could easily see the wealthy wanting the eternal life you can gain from drinking it. If, say, an incredibly wealthy and coincidentally insane industrialist found out how to make vitae, then.. well.. .

It sort of makes sense, in a way - after all, it's hard to think up other reasons for a giant human butchering machine other than "for the evulz".

As long as it doesn't involve vitae AND the shadow AND mysterious orbs of doom I won't mind a little crossover - after all they are in the same world.

Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2012 around 11:07

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast


Not to get too about it but from what I've seen (I haven't finished the game yet) that "essence/Vitae" Alexander is after that people and animals exude when they're stressed/in pain/scared is probably just adrenaline.

Jmcrofts
Jan 7, 2008

just chillin' in the club

Travic posted:

Not to get too about it but from what I've seen (I haven't finished the game yet) that "essence/Vitae" Alexander is after that people and animals exude when they're stressed/in pain/scared is probably just adrenaline.

Nah I'm pretty sure there's a supernatural element to it.

GROVER CURES HOUSE
Aug 26, 2007

Go on...


Travic posted:

Not to get too about it but from what I've seen (I haven't finished the game yet) that "essence/Vitae" Alexander is after that people and animals exude when they're stressed/in pain/scared is probably just adrenaline.

Except the purpose of the vitae is also fairly explicitly stated! He's using it to power the Traveler's Locket in order to open a gate into his world

exploding whale
Mar 26, 2010


If you don't mind massive amounts of the game has a wiki with like every single note, diary, loading screen and flashback.

edit: Also an excellent post on Frictional's blog about designing the monsters!

exploding whale fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2012 around 01:42

Mayor McCheese
Sep 20, 2004

Everyone is a mayor... Someday..

ninety posted:

Am I a dork for playing Dark Descent by candlelight so I can preserve my eyesight while I preserve the atmosphere? Because I kinda feel like a dork.

When I first tried the game it was during a stormy night and I had some candles lit. Atmosphere is everything my dork brother.

Seashell Salesman
Aug 4, 2005


Broken Knees Club posted:

Except the purpose of the vitae is also fairly explicitly stated! He's using it to power the Traveler's Locket in order to open a gate into his world

The wiki also claims that Alexander uses it to prolong his life.

GROVER CURES HOUSE
Aug 26, 2007

Go on...


Seashell Salesman posted:

The wiki also claims that Alexander uses it to prolong his life.

And Agrippa's. I think it's just a generic energy source for magical purposes.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Man, after reading that wiki, I actually wouldn't mind at all if the Orbs were important again - there was so many mysteries they just hinted at, especially relating to the Orb. One of the more interesting ones is the implication that an object taken from the expedition where Johann Weyer found an Orb, a star carved in soapstone, gives the possessor genius and obsession but then drives them mad, and Justine got it from her father (after apparently bludgeoning him to death with said stone). There's also a couple hints in Justine that she knows of the Orbs and intends to gain and use one.

Seashell Salesman
Aug 4, 2005


Personally the atmosphere and intrigue of the first game was largely because stuff wasn't all resolved and explained to you. If they come back and do the same story giving more details it will lose a lot of its charm. Pretty much anything that trades on mystery will become less interesting the more you reveal.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


Seashell Salesman posted:

Personally the atmosphere and intrigue of the first game was largely because stuff wasn't all resolved and explained to you. If they come back and do the same story giving more details it will lose a lot of its charm. Pretty much anything that trades on mystery will become less interesting the more you reveal.

Revealing too little can be just as harmful as revealing too much - a lot of people found amnesia's storyline to be more than a little incoherent, especially towards the end. Agrippa babbling nonsensically for 20 minutes every time you saw him kind of hurt the mood, and wasn't really a good way to reveal plot, too.

Fnoigy
Apr 9, 2007

I'm fine. Why do you ask?


So I was reading the thread about the new PC Gaming wiki http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3471921 and I happened to notice it already has a page for Amnesia: AMFP, and has details on what apparently is another ARG.

Here's the wiki page: http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Amnesi...achine_for_Pigs

Is this actually going on? If it's real, how has it not been mentioned in this thread, yet?

oversteps
Sep 11, 2001



TehGherkin posted:

I'm going to echo everyone in my anticipation for this. Amnesia is the only game that's ever truly scared me (Since the wonderful advent of puberty, of course. Back in the day that last boss on the original Tomb Raider was some scary poo poo). That's probably because I played it with headphones, in the dark, baked out of my brains, like a real man

I went through the game with the strangest mix of really not wanting to play it and needing to know where the plot went, it was fantastic. That comic posted earlier really nailed it, the first time one of the monsters got close enough to actually attack me, I quit the game immediately, I was so relieved when I finished it, I'd have to play something relaxing after every severral hour session.

This is a definite pre-order.

Also, regarding the ending of Amnesia (But probably not what you think): When you face that guy in his inner sanctum, I did childish snigger at his exposed scrotum, but I thought hey, if a man can't be naked in his inner sanctum, where can he be naked?
I can't last for more than an hour in that game normally. I haven't even seen a monster yet. But baked out of my brains? I'd be crying like a baby. Kudos on that one. I wish I had that kind of mental fortitude.

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004




I just stumbled over this - don't think it was posted before:

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/101488...hieving-Success

Amnesia dev at GDC talks about their design decisions and how it made the game successful.

Faffel
Dec 31, 2008


Fnoigy posted:

It's called a Childsnake, and yea that whole room is a great touch. I think they may have had a little more planned for the room, since the entity that renders the water surface (the water physics are a defined volume, the water surface and its visual effects are a different entity) are called childsnake_water or something. Or maybe they just created the entity for the water in the decorative channels on the floor, then just used it for everything else because it ended up being simpler.

I wish they had a monster in that thing's theme. Something huge, hideous, yet vaguely biologically familiar, pale and misshapen, slithering about in search of who knows what.

One of the coolest parts of that is how that room is initially a safe bastion for you. It's a serene, calming safe spot after the first real pants-making GBS threads moment of the game. The music is beautiful, the moonlight feels safe, you feel like nothing can harm you. And then it becomes corrupted over time.

Synonymous
May 24, 2011

That was a nice distraction.


Faffel posted:

One of the coolest parts of that is how that room is initially a safe bastion for you. It's a serene, calming safe spot after the first real pants-making GBS threads moment of the game. The music is beautiful, the moonlight feels safe, you feel like nothing can harm you. And then it becomes corrupted over time.

Maybe it's due to the order in which I did things, but the only changes for me were when I came out of the Guest Room there was a torso just sitting there, and then I came back in once more from Storage, I think, and it had gone completely pants-down demonised, with the blood fountain and Shadow all over the drat shop.

I've been making a real effort to try to play this again, and mostly in the dark but goddamn is it terrifying. My latest meltdown and quit to desktop came in the Morgue, after I used the syringe on the corpse and tried to leave the room, a monster started trying to break the door down. That was okay, I ran into the non-flooded corpse pile room, shutting the door behind me, and hid behind a railing. I waited, Daniel hit "..." Sanity, and then I went to reopen the door. I had my hand on the door, had just started to push it when Daniel just... gave out. He loving collapsed on the floor, leaving me crawling back to my hiding spot absolutely terrified. I had to stop playing after that, it shook me way more than an actual monster sighting.

This game does environment possibly too well. :

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I turn my gaze out upon the field and forever burned into my eyes is a sorry pageant of spectacular failure


MUST RESSURECT THREAD. TRAILER FOR MACHINE FOR PIGS HAS BEEN RELEASED

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/d...mnesia-a/732302

THE MONSTER MAKES PIG NOISES OH JESUS gently caress

Azure_Horizon
Mar 27, 2010

by Lowtax


Oh drat I'm ready.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

What?


I'm worried they'll go overboard with the pig monsters. I'm not certain how scared I'll be of a pigman waddling after me.

The Grunt is going to be a pretty hard act to follow up on.

Gestalt Intellect
Sep 14, 2011

did someone say puzzles


1stGear posted:

I'm worried they'll go overboard with the pig monsters. I'm not certain how scared I'll be of a pigman waddling after me.

The Grunt is going to be a pretty hard act to follow up on.

Knowing Frictional, the sound design and hog-based imagery you will no doubt be bombarded with prior to encountering a pig monster will probably make it become the most horrifying thing you could imagine at the time.

At this point I'm pretty convinced they could turn absolutely any existing idea or object into something mentally unsettling.

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005



1stGear posted:

I'm worried they'll go overboard with the pig monsters. I'm not certain how scared I'll be of a pigman waddling after me.

The Grunt is going to be a pretty hard act to follow up on.

What if those aren't pigs and instead are human beings that are making that sound because of some ugly metal poo poo they wear on their head? That would be hella scary.

Mr. Fish
Nov 4, 2009

small and orange


I am so psyched to play 18 minutes of this and putting it down for ever!

It looks like thechineseroom have managed to stay close to the Amnesia style.

Jabronie
Jun 4, 2011


I've only played Dear Esther once but from reading others experience there's some randomization to the exposition, NPC locations, and minor setting differentiation. In addition to the sense of place thechineseroom are able to do I'd really be interested in seeing that terror of not being able to predict what's in the next room.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009

All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.


Jabronie posted:

I've only played Dear Esther once but from reading others experience there's some randomization to the exposition, NPC locations, and minor setting differentiation. In addition to the sense of place thechineseroom are able to do I'd really be interested in seeing that terror of not being able to predict what's in the next room.

I believe the original Amnesia was somewhat randomized as well? At least in terms of enemy placement and behaviour.

Faraday Cage
Feb 18, 2011

And when they went,
I heard the noise of their wings,
like the noise of great waters.


Hakkesshu posted:

I believe the original Amnesia was somewhat randomized as well? At least in terms of enemy placement and behaviour.
I don't know, every time I've replayed it they've always been wandering right where I've wanted to go and their behaviour has always been terrifying.

I can't wait for this to come out, since I finished The Dark Descent I've been psyched up and ready to whimper like a baby all over again.

TomWaitsForNoMan
May 28, 2003

By Any Means Necessary


Faraday Cage posted:

I don't know, every time I've replayed it they've always been wandering right where I've wanted to go and their behaviour has always been terrifying.

I can't wait for this to come out, since I finished The Dark Descent I've been psyched up and ready to whimper like a baby all over again.

I've started Amnesia twice. The first time I saw a monster walking across my path just as i was leaving the library, I turned the game off and didn't go back to it for moths. When I finally did, I was expecting the monster there but it never appeared. Instead, my first encounter was in a storage room a bit later on

Crappers
Jun 16, 2012


I'm so excited (loving terrified?) for this. I've been meaning to get another play through in but then I end up putting on a happy game like BF3.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

Everything's coming up Paz!

I'm really hyped for this. I thought Amnesia had some pretty big problems (the absolutely underwhelming and not scary at all endgame, the creepy castle aesthetics being so overtly horror that the unsettling sense of emptiness and realism from Penumbra was absent, the fact that the game punishes you for lurking in darkness too long, forcing me to rush through instead of being overly cautious, which inevitably shatters the illusion of danger in any survival horror as effectively as leaping headfirst into cold water bypasses the tension of slowly lowering yourself into it, etc.), but it's still easily one of the scariest games I've played in quite some time, and it's full of extremely clever puzzles.

The atmosphere is top notch, I absolutely love how dedicated to making you feel powerless the mechanics are, not to mention how engrossing the physics interaction stuff has remained since the first Penumbra. The writing was also really good, excepting the massive plot dumb once you meet Agrippa onwards, and it really showed the profound affection for Lovecraft's work the creators have. I also thought the framework of the Justine sidegame was an amazing way to make a Requiem-style puzzle-centric adventure feel genuinely scary and unsettling.

On the subject of Penumbra, unlike most people, I didn't find Black Plague to be more terrifying than Overture. Oh sure, the early game is quite terrifying. The new monsters are absolutely horrifying, especially the first time you encounter one, the environments are much more detailed and creepy than the samey mine corridors of the first game, and the auditory hallucinations are a great way to ratchet up the tension.

But as soon as soon as Clarence shows up, all the atmosphere goes right out the window for me. I understand what they tried to do, making you feel even more alone than ever by having the only companion you have be alien and hostile, but his lines and his over the top acting really, really detracted from the horror for me. It was like I'd slipped into an entirely different genre. And much like Amnesia, the final confrontation was severely underwhelming and not scary at all. I know endings are hard to write and all, but I just feel the end of a horror game should at least be as scary as its beginning.

Anyway I'm rambling, suffice it to say that for all my bitching, I'm very excited for this game, and I hope the problems of past installments get smoothed out by bringing the Dear Esther team onboard.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


Hakkesshu posted:

I believe the original Amnesia was somewhat randomized as well? At least in terms of enemy placement and behaviour.
They do get randomized at some point. Kind of hard to outrun Kaernk when he is placed in front of you.

The real improvement they can do in this game is to make better use of the ceiling and floor. You hear noises above you and figure it was a distraction in the last game, then something crashes behind you in a big cloud.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

What?


Scalding Coffee posted:

They do get randomized at some point. Kind of hard to outrun Kaernk when he is placed in front of you.

The real improvement they can do in this game is to make better use of the ceiling and floor. You hear noises above you and figure it was a distraction in the last game, then something crashes behind you in a big cloud.

This would be amazing. One of my favorite moments in Amnesia is in the Wine Cellar when you get the tutorial message about crouching to hide from monsters. Every tutorial message up to that point has come up when its needed and the addition of spooky noises and the spawn of a monster that wanders off causes the player to crouch down and stealth around the Cellar, terrified of absolutely nothing. Its a great little scare that deliberately fucks with the player's perception on a meta level.

I think doing things like having footsteps above you sometimes be a monster and sometimes just be noise, the "monster searching" music fade out even when the monster is still spawned, and generally messing with the player's understanding of the rules and systems would be a pretty great way to increase the horror.

hemale in pain
Jun 5, 2010



1stGear posted:

I think doing things like having footsteps above you sometimes be a monster and sometimes just be noise, the "monster searching" music fade out even when the monster is still spawned, and generally messing with the player's understanding of the rules and systems would be a pretty great way to increase the horror.

It's a nice touch but it needs to be carefully done or otherwise it gets a bit annoying. Generally players like it when a game sticks to its rules rather than loving you over, but a horror game having a few occasions where it intentionally messes with you is cool. I'm also all for randomisation, I personally find the replay value of Amnesia to be a bit low as once you get over the horror and know what to expect it loses alot of its charm.

exploding whale
Mar 26, 2010


TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

I've started Amnesia twice. The first time I saw a monster walking across my path just as i was leaving the library, I turned the game off and didn't go back to it for moths. When I finally did, I was expecting the monster there but it never appeared. Instead, my first encounter was in a storage room a bit later on

That one, IIRC, is a hallucination that only sometimes appears. The enemy placement in Amnesia varies if you die or if your sanity is very low, in which case some specific places will spawn imaginary monsters. Otherwise their spawn points are completely scripted throughout the entire game. I can see why they did that, but I hope this one is an improvement, because that was easily the most disappointing thing about Amnesia for me. You catch on to its tricks pretty quickly -- most of the noises don't really mean anything, when the music stops the monster is gone, find a hiding place before you pick up anything important, etc. etc. If this game keeps the atmosphere of Amnesia but fixes all those things it will be perfect.

Also hope those are mutilated people who just sound like pigs or something instead of actual pig-people.

John Liver
May 4, 2009



exploding whale posted:

Also hope those are mutilated people who just sound like pigs or something instead of actual pig-people.

I fully expect this game to include something akin to the brazen bull.

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Safari Disco Lion
Jul 21, 2011

Disco MORT is on a safari


Thread resurrection to say that it looks like the game has been delayed until early 2013. Disappointing, since Halloween would be a perfect release date for this, but knowing Frictional they're going to use the extra time very, very well.

I'm usually not a fan of horror games but I'm really enjoying Frictional's games, and I'm preordering AMFP as soon as it's available. I really, really hate being startled so I just don't play games that focus on jump scares (even though Amnesia does have maybe one or two, they're fairly obvious). I'm glad Frictional is doing what they're doing though, I can experience some really awesome horror games without having all the fun ruined for me by being startled every 45 seconds with cheap, lazy things popping out at you with no cues beforehand. I can expect to find something horrible if I peek around a corner or turn my camera when I'm being chased, but just walking down a hallway and BAM something jumps at you? No thanks, that's enough to kill the game right there for me.

Safari Disco Lion fucked around with this message at Jul 16, 2012 around 13:06

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