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No "Save and Quit" is very dumb, but it won't keep me from playing the game. It just means that I won't play the game as much, just like with Binding of Isaac, and I'll probably forget about the game faster. If they are totally committed to no temporary saves then they should at least have an "Abandon Ship" or "Self Destruct" option that gives you your score for the progress made so far instead of just throwing it all away. EDIT: The advantage of no one reading what I write is that no one called me out on the fact that the game DOES give you a score when you quit. It just does so silently and you won't notice unless you look at the STATS page and wonder where the mystery scores came from. XenoCrab fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 19:32
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How is the production value for the game? They have $200k to spend so I'm wondering what they are spending it on.
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Jun 14, 2012 19:36
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Made it to the final sector, but it was mostly by running from everything. No way I was tough enough to take on all the bad guys. Another loss. 
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Jun 14, 2012 19:41
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Ugly In The Morning posted:What the gently caress. Why. Why would you do that? Are you stupid? Do you want to be a pain in the rear end deliberately? I have a life, sometimes I need to do things that'll interrupt my game!
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Jun 14, 2012 21:10
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added my voice to the throng. Hopefully they reconsider.
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Jun 14, 2012 21:25
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The no-save choice reminds me of another roguelike spaceship sim, Flotilla, and while I didn't necessarily like that (I loved the game so much that I wish there was an endless-sandbox mode, where I could play for hours in an ever-expanding playground, and save it for later bouts), it's understandable that short-lived games don't necessarily need them. That being said, it's always something to hope for. In less reputable posting, if anyone has an extra key (I know that some KS tiers involved a "for a friend" option), I'd be happy to trade for it with an extra steam game or two that I have floating around. I missed the KS drive through nothing but my own failings.
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Jun 14, 2012 21:40
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God, everyone who defends their no-save desicion is always such a smug douchebag about it. The response to "hey guys, this isn't a good idea, it's really inconvienent" shouldn't be "Well, somebody doesn't play enough roguelikes!  "
Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 22:01
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queue the fanbois.. what a bunch of retards. Bad design is bad design. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 14, 2012 22:16
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Ugly In The Morning posted:God, everyone who defends their no-save desicion is always such a smug douchebag about it. The response to "hey guys, this isn't a good idea, it's really inconvienent" shouldn't be "Well, somebody doesn't play enough roguelikes! Mecron himself would be proud. Depending on the length of the game I really won't care anyway.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:18
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Ugly In The Morning posted:God, everyone who defends their no-save desicion is always such a smug douchebag about it. The response to "hey guys, this isn't a good idea, it's really inconvienent" shouldn't be "Well, somebody doesn't play enough roguelikes! It's funny because my first thought was that Roguelikes all have a save system.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:19
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I don't have beta access (I just threw in 10 to get it at release) so I dunno if I can post in that forum, but would it be worth pointing out that if they ever want to release this thing on a mobile device they need support for this? If an iOS / droid game isn't able to suspend and resume, it's basically worthless. Might not help anything in terms of fanboy outcry (ios isn't a real gaming platrform, hurrr, etc) but it's still true -- and I think this game would work great on an iPad. E: My main annoyance with games that don't support temp saves like Flotilla is that a longer a game goes the more likely it is I might get interrupted, and in a particularly long game I'll really want to save because if If I'm still alive it means I've probably been making good progress. E2: I haven't been keeping good track of the specifics, are there global leaderboards or anything that might get messed up by people savescumming? If they're worried about that they could just make it so any resumed game is flagged somehow... NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 22:51
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Ugly In The Morning posted:God, everyone who defends their no-save desicion is always such a smug douchebag about it. The response to "hey guys, this isn't a good idea, it's really inconvienent" shouldn't be "Well, somebody doesn't play enough roguelikes! That guy is just absurd, now he's accusing people of "dragging him into a debate". Those awful bullies forcing him to make ludicrously poor arguments to back up his ludicrous claims by calling him on his bullshit.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:56
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A strange move indeed, but hopefully can be reconciled in the near term here as opposed to this being some kinda last minute surprise arriving at the end of beta.
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Jun 14, 2012 23:08
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Can someone explain how to put out fires without killing your crewmen? My men keep putting out fires incredibly slowly until they basically just die.
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Jun 14, 2012 23:28
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You can vent them by opening up all the doors to the fire. Alternatively, you can keep the guys in the fire until their low on health, then switch to higher health guys and let them heal.
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Jun 14, 2012 23:32
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Anyone have any idea how to unlock the stealth ship? My guess from the tooltip is that I need to fly the Circle Cruiser to the Engi homeworld, I just haven't had an luck finding it, and I really prefer the Ketrel .
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Jun 14, 2012 23:45
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This game is awesome.
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Jun 15, 2012 00:06
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VendoViper posted:Anyone have any idea how to unlock the stealth ship? My guess from the tooltip is that I need to fly the Circle Cruiser to the Engi homeworld, I just haven't had an luck finding it, and I really prefer the Ketrel That's what I've been trying. I love the CC, and even had two of my best games with it (even though the Ketrel is the only other ship I have...)so I've been playing it anyway. But anytime I make it to an Engi sector, I never find the stealth ship.
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Jun 15, 2012 00:42
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So I went back to the Kestrel, because it is just so much more  from turn one, that burst laser owns bones, and this time while I was in the Engi Home world sector, I happened on an encounter that had a blue option. The only requirement was that I have an Engi on board, you don't have to be in the CC. Unfortunately it is a multi stage quest, and I ran out of gas and then got exploded before I could complete it!Now that I played a round without the healing effect through the whole ship, I am not sure what I like better. They did such a good job with this game, I look forward to unlocking more of the ships.
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Jun 15, 2012 01:21
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I hosed up on my first run because I opened all the airlocks to extinguish the fires forgetting that my O2 systems are in the red. Each of my men died of oxygen starvation running to fix it  
breadshaped fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 01:41
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VendoViper posted:Anyone have any idea how to unlock the stealth ship? My guess from the tooltip is that I need to fly the Circle Cruiser to the Engi homeworld, I just haven't had an luck finding it, and I really prefer the Ketrel I just unlocked it on my most recent game. There's a quest in one of the Engi Sectors where you have to chase down a few Mantis/Rebel ships that stole the Stealth Ship data (I think the quest might require an Engi crew member to start, I was playing with a Torus so V  V). After you beat the third or fourth ship you complete the quest and unlock the ship.
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Jun 15, 2012 01:56
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VendoViper posted:So I went back to the Kestrel, because it is just so much more Hmm, nice. I'll try the Kestrel some more then, since you only need an Engi. The heal is nice, but unless I get some weapons ASAP on the Cruiser, I have trouble later on since my damage seems to be pretty pitiful.
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Jun 15, 2012 02:10
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Dipes posted:How is the production value for the game? They have $200k to spend so I'm wondering what they are spending it on. I'm kinda wondering where all the money went too. So far this is pretty much just a completed version of what they had as a demo. If hiring the writer was a good portion of their budget they're loving idiots, because that means they spent real money on a video game "writer" for a roguelike. But then no save option also points to the "morons" option. On a more game related note, is anyone else feeling like the threat wave is over the top in terms of speed? I originally thought it was basically the hunger mechanic other roguelikes have (something to keep you moving), but hunger works much slower. Then I realized they already have a more direct hunger analogue in Fuel, so they've actually got two hunger mechanics at once.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:05
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DatonKallandor posted:I'm kinda wondering where all the money went too. So far this is pretty much just a completed version of what they had as a demo. If hiring the writer was a good portion of their budget they're loving idiots, because that means they spent real money on a video game "writer" for a roguelike. One cute thing I'd have like to have seen some of the  spent on would be little crew voices calling poo poo out:"Captain, power levels critical!" "02 off line!" "We can't take another hit, sir!" "Hull breach in port engineering!" Obviously you'd have the option to turn them off, but I think that'd add a lot to the TV spaceship experience.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:14
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DatonKallandor posted:I'm kinda wondering where all the money went too. So far this is pretty much just a completed version of what they had as a demo. If hiring the writer was a good portion of their budget they're loving idiots, because that means they spent real money on a video game "writer" for a roguelike. You know, this is kind of unreasonable. They asked for an incredibly modest amount through Kickstarter. The fact that they got 20x what they asked for doesn't mean they can magically put that much more polish into a game that was probably nearly complete already, unless you want them to also spend that much more time working on it. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 03:19
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Writing is also an easy thing to add without requiring any new game design/art/etc. So, they don't have to modify their original plan and they don't have to overtax their artist.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:23
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I'm hoping the extra cash will allow them to do a lot of post-release support with patches that add new content. Seeing how much having a different ship changes the game they could get a lot of mileage out of just adding more ship types. I would rather have the game now with updates coming than have it delayed for a few months while they figure out how to stuff it full of more poo poo.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:37
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LumberingTroll posted:I am now pretty unhappy with these developers. I completely agree. This makes no sense at all to me. But I don't think they'll ever actually add it if they're rejecting the very input they are requesting this early in. They seem to be one of those kinds of indie devs.  I know that Caves of Qud, an awesome roguelike by one of our resident game devs has a suspend feature. It also has a savescumming debug option for people who are so inclined (and testing), but I can't speak to whether or not that would be in the final version. Dipes posted:How is the production value for the game? They have $200k to spend so I'm wondering what they are spending it on. If they are smart, they'll make the game for 50-75k and keep the rest as seed money for their next project. dvorak fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 03:47
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dvorak posted:I completely agree. This makes no sense at all to me. But I don't think they'll ever actually add it if they're rejecting the very input they are requesting this early in. They seem to be one of those kinds of indie devs. It makes perfect sense, for how they want the game to be played. That being said, there is certainly a point where game developers should not compromise their vision/design but saving crosses into the quality of life argument where you tell people the idea is to run through without saving but still provide the functionality because it's retarded not to. nessin fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 04:03
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nessin posted:It makes perfect sense, for how they want the game to be played. However while there is certainly a lot to be said for game developers not compromising their vision but saving crosses into the quality of life argument where you tell people the idea is to run through without saving but still provide the functionality because it's retarded not to. I basically just want a feature to suspend my game while I go to work or go do something. Go ahead and delete the save after I jump back in, I just want to be able to turn my computer or laptop off. In 2012, I don't think that's much to ask for. But they'll do whatever they want, as they should.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:06
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nessin posted:It makes perfect sense, for how they want the game to be played. That being said, there is certainly a point where game developers should not compromise their vision/design but saving crosses into the quality of life argument where you tell people the idea is to run through without saving but still provide the functionality because it's retarded not to. Except "how they want it to be played" is apparently "in single sittings only" and "lose all of your progress if you have a power outage or the game crashes". The former is bullshit fake difficulty that makes it harder to play the game rather than adding any actual challenge to the game itself and, in my view, puts it in the same category of unacceptable player-hating bullshit as Kojima's "I wish I could make a game that erased itself, forcing the player to buy a new copy, when they got a game over". The latter is just a dick move. Neither is excusable, especially in this day and age when save/restore is a solved problem and there are off the shelf libraries for just about any engine or language that make it, if not trivial, at least not particularly hard.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:16
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It does seem like you have to be an incredibly entitled-feeling developer to not allow players to quit the game without losing progress. Like, do you really need that much control over how people play? It's not like you're adding a feature that lets you savescum or something, which would conceivably change the way people interact with the game by letting them reload when bad things happen or something like that. The only conceivable reason not to allow saves is to force people to play through in one sitting/keep it alt + tabbed when they want to set it aside. That's not really a gameplay thing so much as an "I want to control your life" thing. The game's the same either way: you're just forcing people to play it in one sitting. WHY
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Jun 15, 2012 04:39
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TychoCelchuuu posted:It does seem like you have to be an incredibly entitled-feeling developer to not allow players to quit the game without losing progress. Like, do you really need that much control over how people play? It's not like you're adding a feature that lets you savescum or something, which would conceivably change the way people interact with the game by letting them reload when bad things happen or something like that. The only conceivable reason not to allow saves is to force people to play through in one sitting/keep it alt + tabbed when they want to set it aside. That's not really a gameplay thing so much as an "I want to control your life" thing. The game's the same either way: you're just forcing people to play it in one sitting. Someone should just lend one of them a two-year-old to watch for a day or two. They'd come around.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:40
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Anybody have any idea why my game is just a black screen when I start it up? I can't hear music or anything and the game isn't crashing, the game window is just black and I can't play.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:42
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dvorak posted:I completely agree. This makes no sense at all to me. But I don't think they'll ever actually add it if they're rejecting the very input they are requesting this early in. They seem to be one of those kinds of indie devs. And the can always add in a Iron Mode for dorks who want to agonize over things such as no saves allowed.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:47
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Badingading posted:I just unlocked it on my most recent game. There's a quest in one of the Engi Sectors where you have to chase down a few Mantis/Rebel ships that stole the Stealth Ship data (I think the quest might require an Engi crew member to start, I was playing with a Torus so V Thanks, I can go back to the Kestrel now and do it that way.
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Jun 15, 2012 05:00
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etalian posted:And the can always add in a Iron Mode for dorks who want to agonize over things such as no saves allowed. Except that's the thing, even the "hardcore roguelike audience" has had a save quit option since second generation roguelikes (nethack etc), which was 25 years ago. Even the system admins of yesteryear had to sometimes quit their game to bring up something that looks more productive on their terminal for when their boss walked in. But whatever, there is probably no point discussing it anymore if the devs have already made up their mind and I'm already tired of arguing about it because it was debated not long ago in regards to Neo Scavenger. The difference being that it was other players to "argue" against and not the dev. It ended up being implemented because its dev is great and actually means it when he says he is open to feedback.
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Jun 15, 2012 05:07
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TychoCelchuuu posted:It does seem like you have to be an incredibly entitled-feeling developer to not allow players to quit the game without losing progress. Like, do you really need that much control over how people play? It's not like you're adding a feature that lets you savescum or something... Well, to be fair, it does let players savescum by backing up the save files and then restoring them out-of-game. That said, someone willing to go to that much effort to savescum is also probably willing to run the game in a VM or use Cheat Engine or whatever, and on top of that you then ask the question "and why is people savescumming such a big problem" and come up empty. The devs haven't actually said what their rationale for opposing it as far as I know, though.
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Jun 15, 2012 05:20
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ToxicFrog posted:Well, to be fair, it does let players savescum by backing up the save files and then restoring them out-of-game. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for leaving out "normal" saving, but I can't think of any great reason for leaving out save on exit.
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Jun 15, 2012 05:26
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queeb posted:This game is awesome. It is, it just needs save and quit.
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Jun 15, 2012 06:38
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