Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«2 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



I'm not going to talk about fetishes.

It occurred to me that the entry on Theme Naming is a spectacular example of why just listing examples of a thing is a terrible way to go about it; you need to examine WHY the author chose to do it that way and what that contributes to literature as a whole.

The only semblance of analysis is the opening two sentences...

TV Tripe posted:

Authors like to use themes to create a sense of unity or cohesiveness within their work. Some extend themes to the names of the characters, often beyond the similarities that would be expected for characters from the same culture or who all speak the same language.
...and then many of the examples given are just "the theme is X", optionally including "here's the characters whose names fit the theme [with translations if they're in Japanese]". That's selling theme naming as a concept far short - there's more to it than just giving the viewer clues as to who's connected to whom because you can hint at the dynamics between characters with homophony or allusion.

An example off the top of my head: Simon and Kamina from Gurren Lagann. Their names are based on kami "above" and simo "below", suggesting the way they perceive one another: Simon seeing Kamina as someone to look up to and aspire to become, Kamina seeing Simon as the one holding him aloft and enabling him to try and grasp for greater heights.

A bit of analysis would cue a competent compiler in that most of TV Tropes' examples aren't actually particularly helpful because none of them really perform a function beyond creating cohesion in a group.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Patter Song posted:

Last month I saw two links to TVT on LP on the same day. Both of them got shouted down for linking to a horrible site.
I suppose that raises a useful point - what's an effective way to warn non-goons off TV Tropes? People seem to be happy using the "I just browse the wiki" defence and ignoring the giant paedophile in the room.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Metal Loaf posted:

This banned troper decided he'd had enough, so he went and set up the TV Tropes Mirror Wiki on Wikia.

The 'Permanent Red Link Club' page posted:

All Pedophiles Are Child Molesters: While we understand there is a difference between the two, and admit that, in general, the media tends to portray them as the same thing, we here at the Tropes Mirror simply do not want the controversy!

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



A Buttery Pastry posted:

Fake edit: poo poo, just realized that it came off like I agreed with the whole thing! That wasn't what I meant. I only technically agreed with the bolded part, which seemed to be what Crosscontainment focused on! Any acting upon pedophilia is of course child molestation, all I'm pointing out is that a pedophile can choose not to become a child molester, and some child molesters aren't pedophiles, they're just hosed up in different ways.
My perspective on it is that I really don't want to tar people whose brains happen to be wired to cause sexual arousal at the sight of children who never mention it to anyone and live completely normal lives with the same brush as people who actually do abuse children or condone such acts.

Policing people's thoughts is an immensely uncomfortable prospect for me.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Darth Walrus posted:


As I recall Type-Moon doesn't even get as far as metaphors involving molluscs - it's straight-up comparing things to slugs, snails and sea anemones and it is the most effective antiboner ever.

Apparently not to tropers.

I managed to stumble across a trope whose entire gimmick is it can't work in reality that nonetheless managed to have a Real Life section and intended to post about it, but now I can't find it again. It might be Space is an Ocean but I don't think it is. I found it from the So You Want To/Write The Next Star Trek page.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Gato posted:

What is it with tropers and naming elements? More importantly, what does he think guns were invented if not for killing people? Why wouldn’t people just use other weapons? What has communism got to do with anything?
Looks like it's a really stupid excuse to have "gun fu" scenes where both combatants are so close to one another they could count each other's cavities.

(Also a complete and utter lack of knowledge of how firearms work. I live in the UK and thus know nothing about guns apart from what my TFR friend tells me and I can tell you a) bullets aren't made out of lead, but tungsten; b) rounds exist which can be fired inside a building or a plane and not cause problems, so the entire reason for the existence of Mercyium bullets is specious; c) "Mercyium" is a terrible name no matter how you slice it.)

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Why does Fighteer think that any analysis at all has to be a debate held in public with everyone's laundry thrown around for the world to see? Wouldn't the whole point of the forums under an actually useful TV Tropes be to contain the debate on a particular subject so the site itself contains only the end result and not the deliberations?

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Jasper Chalks posted:

It would appear that [Games Workshop] have copyrighted [chainswords]. This does not bode well for Eddie.
Is it breaking the don't-feed-the-animals rule to politely inform them of the infringement?

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Nautatrol Rx posted:

What's worse is that he's not upset at actual critics. He's upset at the slapadaisical kid-glove criticism from tropers he's received regarding his word-salad. If the harshness of literary criticism were to be compared to the Fujita Scale, troper criticism would rank around "a fart in the wind". That's what he's upset about.
Because actual critics wouldn't actually say anything. They'd take a look at the manuscript, throw it into the bin and then stare at the alleged author until they get uncomfortable and leave.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



UberShyGuy posted:

Honestly, while I don't think TVT is really an irredeemable rapeheap like the deluded jerks over at SA seem to have convinced themselves that it is, I do however think it has some pretty major issues, most of them extending from the moderation team (FE and Madrugada worst of all, obviously, but many of the rest don't seem much, if at all, better) with their asinine, hugboxy policies and the crowd of creepazoids that said policies have attracted.
JERKS

If TV Tropes is redeemable, I'd love to see proposals for reform (even hypothetical ones, given the BTL thread's look-don't-touch rule goes even further than ours) which don't involve burning it to the ground, replacing it with a MediaWiki installation managed by a competent administrative team and banning more or less every troper in the OP of this thread on sight.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



I was referring to this.

Bottle posted:

WE ARE NOT IMPORTANT
We can't actively change anything about TV Tropes. We're not a cabal of shadowy figures gathered around a table with steepled fingers. Our words carry no weight, and our criticisms will most likely go unheard.
Which seems to be an edict not to try and suggest ways TVT could improve.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Celery Face posted:

I think Eddie doesn't bother to let users quote because he doesn't want anyone to see the inevitably thumped posts. Doesn't make it less annoying though.
I think he mentioned that it was because quote tags encourage rigorous debate where you divide a post up into individual points and refute or contest each one of them individually, and he wants to encourage a more "conversation"-like environment where people never disagree respond to entire posts instead.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Volume posted:

The same kind of power thewindfish gets off on when he indulges in his pedophile fantasies with his brother.
I think you can put the drum away now. Ceterum censeo and all that.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



General Panic posted:

e: Also, why the hell would the town tailor be jealous of your fantastic eyelashes? Don't tell me, "because anime."


Content: Troper "neo YT Pism" apparently thinks men are a) hornier than women b) less emotionally scarred by sexual abuse than women.

neo YT Pism posted:

Frankly, I think Abuse Is Okay When It Is Female on Male has a lot more potential for controversy, if only because girls abusing guys, and causing trauma to their male victims comparable to that of female abuse victims, is a lot more plausible than girls raping guys and causing trauma to their male victims comparable to that of female surprise sex victims.

neo YT Pism posted:

I wasn't claiming that women had no libido, just that it tended to be lower than for men. This follows from evolutionary logic; "eggs are expensive sperm are cheap" thus evolution would favour a species where females are generally more careful about sexual reproduction than males.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-9sIsFVSY ["Human Nature - Sexual Behavior & Reproductive Strategies" by MysteriousMaskMan, who by the looks of the other videos on the channel is a crazy antitheist; someone with a stronger mental shield than me can watch the video and comment on what the fact "neo YT Pism" endorses it says about him]

Alternatively some might interpret the sex drive gap as being the other way around, for whatever reasons, and while what I've come across doesn't sound as convincing as evolutionary-psychology logic, it would at least make more sense than the idea of the sex drive gap being nonexistant.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Debot posted:

I still think we should start measuring horniness in millihumps and just average along various lines to see who's horniest of all.
MEASURE EVERYTHING

And of course:

Madrugada posted:

This thread is serving no purpose anymore. The question that was asked in the OP was answered within four posts, and since then it's been little digs at people. Locking it up.
Nevermind the fact someone in the thread is overtly offensive, lock the thread because of tone.

Meanwhile, in the White Privilege thread:

joeyjojo posted:

I know a indian student who named Raj who started getting job call back after he changed his name to 'john' on application forms so I think there is sadly still a lot to be said about having a white name at least.
Still I think calling your child a getto name Shaniqua like is pretty stupid in it's self. But that's just me.
Swing and a miss, buddy.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



You would have thought if they were that worried about purging paedophilia from TV Tropes would lead to a slippery slope they'd make an effort to avoid that by not submitting anything that happens to contain a child and sticking to things that actually contain paedophilia.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



DaveWoo posted:

No there isn't, you idiot. They're both terrible ways to create/describe a character.
I've only ever been published by the Sheet Of Paper On Mum's Fridge Publishing Company* and even I know if you ever find yourself wasting a paragraph on telling the reader what your character is like you're doing it wrong.

*I wrote a god-awful poem was I was about ten and Y2K was a thing, and it got published in an anthology of children's poetry as part of some deal the school did with the company; I have a copy of it on a shelf somewhere. I wouldn't show it to anyone or use it to justify calling myself a poet or a published author, but it's still a step above anything a troper has ever produced.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Geokinesis posted:

You don't happen to be from the UK do you? As if you do I have the same dubious honour of having my childhood poetry published in possibly the same book.
I do! I shall liaise with you over PM and probably send a photo of the book to see if it's the same one.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



And they're keen to note none of them are to be confused with Pavel Chekov and the gun he occasionally uses.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Hedgehog Pie posted:

This is a problem many beginners seem to make, not just Tropers. I remember a screenwriting teacher telling me that when looking over his students' scripts, most musical references would be divided between vague "jazz music plays here" instructions and more specific yet ill-considered talk like "CHARACTER spontaneously starts singing 'Umbrella' by Rihanna".
I'm a little curious: what's good practice for music direction in screenplays?

Oh god, what does this mean they've done to the Mega Neko page?

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



I love how if you don't write a goddamn step-by-step how-to guide for fixing a piece of writing they accuse you of not telling them how to improve. They are utterly incapable of making basic inferences - the idea that if you call their choice of words "malapropisms" and accuse them of trying to sound smarter than they are you probably need to look up words in a dictionary and make sure they mean what you think they mean is lost on them.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Ambiguatron posted:

The only time you'll roll your eyes at some character at a trench coat is if the author means you to, and if you roll your eyes without the author's permission delivered in the form of a troper-comprehensible encoding, there's something wrong with you, not the creator or the work.
Ah yes, the perplexing Death of the Audience literary stance, known and used only by tropers. I seem to recall that getting mentioned earlier.

Time for some content.

fulltime D posted:

So in a story I am using a nuclear pulse drive on an alien spaceship that is traveling at relativistic speeds. The science officer of the human ship detects that the aliens are using their nuclear pulse drive to decelerate from relativistic speeds (presumably they had originally used it to accelerate). Is this even remotely plausible? Could the aliens do this without blowing themselves up?
Eepy-peepy is a real thing, reasonably simple to build with modern-day technology and trivially detectable; nuclear detonations are ridiculously bright. The pusher plate needed to stop a nuclear detonation behind the ship destroying it isn't that complicated - you'd have more trouble stopping the more pernicious forms of radiation from giving your crew cancer.

Matues posted:

Ever read the book Marooned in Realtime?
It had technology that could create "Bobbles", essentially a spherical area of frozen time. Anything inside was practically invulnerable, and to someone inside only a moment would seem to pass, no matter how much time passed outside.
Some people used it for this sort of thing. They'd drop a time nuke outside of their ships, bobble up, then it would go off and propel them forward. This could happen several times a second with computers setting off the bobbles.

fulltime D posted:

Fortunately I have similar technology on these ships ("supergravitic shielding") which pushes the ship partially out of the spacetime continuum, so using supergravitic force bubbles to that effect is a possibility.
Oh, right, of course, magic bubbles of time to protect everything inside from the nuclear blast, how stupid of me.

fulltime D also posted:

But I am wondering about it even without that technology. How WOULD one decelerate from 95% light speed?
Thrust in the opposite direction to your motion vector?

Matues posted:

Hit something?
We'll call that Option Moron, after its inven--

Matt II posted:

What, like a nebula? Could work I suppose.


e:

CATEGORICAL IMPERATIVE: TROPES posted:

The trope you're looking for is Orion Drive.

fulltime D posted:

Horrible, horrible, non-indicative name; I remember fighting that one.
Apparently a name the actual thing has is "non-indicative"!

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



WeaponGradeSadness posted:

Jesus Christ how clueless can you get?
Not knowing Shakespeare's plays are loving full of bawdy jokes and talking about sex is the hallmark of one who has never loving read anything by the man.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Looking at the Content Violations Discussion forum I'm amazed how much handwringing there is over whether something which happens to contain a sex scene constitutes fap-fodder. They somehow miss that when comparing sexual content in (say) End of Evangelion with visual novels like Sengoku Rance or My Girlfriend Is The President or whatever, one of the two is giving you explicit nudity as a reward for participating and the other is not.

Quoting this to put it on the new page; it's beautiful.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Patter Song posted:

Black Griffon: do your friends do that terrible thing where they write in the unique brand of non-idiomatic English pioneered by anime fansubs? "If you do this, I won't forgive you!" "I must protect you!" "He won't die even if you kill him!" "As expected from that man." "If you thought you could challenge me, you're 100 years too early!"
Ugh. Japanese cartoons for some reason seem to breed a particular class of dork, which doesn't understand that localising a work requires more than just taking the words in Japanese and looking them all up in a dictionary, then rearranging them until they're in the right order. It apparently stems from a huge disdain for "professional" l10n jobs in the 1980s which would routinely whitewash the thing attempting to remove any and all cultural reference and render the production blandly American/English.

The problem is there's more to l10n than choosing between leaving untranslated words like onigiri alone and turning them into donuts. You have to do some reasonably extensive rewording to deal with idioms like "as expected of" which don't exist in normal colloquial English and get rid of warts like "a certain" (which plagued the script of Metroid: Other M).

The one practice that really, really gets my back up more than any other is not removing honorifics. If you seriously cannot convey the meaning of an honorific with wording, you are not competent enough to be translating cultural material into another language. At all. Full stop.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Nautatrol Rx posted:

I swear these kids are some kind of super-mutants with powers to just gently caress everything up and spray poo poo onto the internet. He's wanting to assemble a list of reasons his Nazi-themed fantasy world's inhabitants would want sex slaves.

Just gently caress.
"Man, I sure wish I knew Swedish. Better see how many Swedes are on the open market!"

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Hamburger Helper posted:

But why bother with something you dislike at all? Don't Like, Don't Read (or watch, as the case may be).
There's got to be something intrinsic to this which explains why tropers have so much hatred for actual criticism. It's got the smell of something really telling which the author isn't self-aware enough to be conscious of, like how CWC's constant spiling his metaphorical guts out on camera says more about him than about his life, but I can't really read enough into it to see it for myself.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



quote:

black men: Jesus fuckin Christ dude, pull up your goddamn pants and wear clothes that fit. I already have issues with people entering my personal space, you're making it worse.
I love how out of touch tropers are with everything. Nevermind the racial stereotyping at play here, I thought low-slung trousers went out of style a decade ago.

quote:

Middle Eastern.
Kinda like them.
Except Persians.
This I just find plain hilarious, if only because I would enjoy the gently caress out of holding up a handful of photos and saying "which of these people is Persian".

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Snow posted:

I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with an optimistic and plausible near-future USA setting, and a story to put there. What I've come up with is disturbing: the country splits mostly peacefully into two or three. You have one country roughly in the South and West that's taking over Cuba and parts of Mexico, versus the Northeast and Midwest with a very different culture and government, with the Pacific coast either in the second group or as a third nation. That is my optimistic scenario at this point.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Leofish posted:

But man, what the hell is up with tropers and TATMNBN? They all seem to love it so much, and this guy is convinced that it should have stayed.
I fear the only way to answer that question would be to read/watch it. (Is it an anime, as the acronym implies, or a manga, as r(a)pgingmaster implies by saying he read it? loving Japan.)

e: oh god rapgingmaster fanfiction. The only way to express my response would be to merge with .

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Oh my god it's a Vulcan. There are goddamn Vulcans on TV Tropes.

"This trope is illogical."
"I do not see why I need to hold this knife, especially like this."

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



I wouldn't be overly surprised if the categorisation originated on Pixiv - they enjoy doing stupid things like that (with tongue firmly lodged in cheek, I hope). Tropers are just completely incapable of detecting sarcasm and/or recognising things which are the product of a Japanese sense of humour.

The concept itself (and the use of the term from Evangelion to describe it) almost certainly originates from a joke in a four-panel comic, in the same vein as "symmetrical docking". (Weirdly, this isn't a trope; the closest I could find was Marshmallow Hell. I guess tropers don't care about two sets of tits being mashed together unless they're both twelve-year-olds.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Yes, but as you can see from the URL that's a meme not a trope so

(I didn't look outside the Main namespace. I assumed it'd be on the boob index.)

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



I'm not sure which is more pathetic - the ones hoping for underage pantyshots because they're paedophiles or the ones hoping for underage pantyshots because they feel some sort of obligation to THE TROPES .

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Lottery of Babylon posted:

They think everything is surprisingly well-written.
Which is true considering their baseline for average writing is to schlock what schlock is to good creative media.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



The difference being the Internet creeps don't realise it's supposed to be sarcasm.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Olive Branch posted:

Dude, what the gently caress are you going on about. Are you drunkposting or something?
I think what he's saying is we should do more than simply post our favourite troperisms in this thread in the Post Your Favourite forum.

It's an interesting, almost Magrittesque philosophy.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Clocks posted:

and frankly it's more entertaining than hearing you go on long, rambly diatribes about how "guys, don't fall for trolls" which is all you really needed to say.
If Nautatrol Rx's diatribes were just an extremely verbose "don't feed the troll" then there'd be very little problem here. What I don't get is why we had to go through "goons have done gross poo poo too, like keyboard goop" (subtext: stop being mean to tropers ) and something about mouthbreathers protecting paedophiles by mocking fake paedophiles on the internet or something (it got kind of incoherent at that point) to get there.

quote:

You don't understand because you're all a school of scared fish in the water instead of sharks. You see the blood and wonder if you should run rather than attacking.
I too speak entirely in impenetrable metaphor.

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Gender bender deconstruction.... too dark?

Translating from Troperese, Fallen Legend wants to write a story which punctures all the stupid gender-bender stories which rely on magic genderswaps and result in the victim completely accepting their new identity after one Standard Galactic Unit of Wacky Hijinks relating to now possessing either breasts or balls where previously they possessed balls or breasts. In the hands of a competent writer this is laudable, because those stories are dumb; however, these are tropers.

Doktorvon Eurotrash posted:

Offensive to transgender people? I don't think so. The protagonist doesn't come off as a transgender person to me: he wants to become a woman on a whim, because he thinks that would make him happy. He doesn't have a deep-seated conviction that he is a woman whose physical sex doesn't match her actual one.
Now, I'm cis-gendered and unfortunately don't know a lot of transgendered people, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But my personal opinion is that your idea isn't offensive to any group of people.
The rest of the thread behaves similarly: "I'm not trans, and I don't think it's offensive to trans people". Call me crazy, but I suspect the best people to determine whether any story idea revolving around external and internal gender issues is offensive to trans people would be trans people.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Crosscontaminant
Jan 18, 2007



Namtab posted:

Here's Volatile Chill's Troper Page
This makes me want to make a parody of those song lyrics starting with "please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of tropes and surprise sex".

  • Post
  • Reply
«2 »