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Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009


Zoran posted:

Has to be after that, because you get war assets there.

Oh, I misunderstood, yes that one time acquisition adds to it and I believe if you do more multiplayer after that point, it does raise it, it just doesn't give you any more assets after that point (aside from that one) and you can't go looking for anymore, as I understand it.

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AppleCobbler
Feb 8, 2003

Be careful what you wish for.

Is it wrong that I felt legitimately sad after the geth vs. quarian mission where you decide whether or not to update the geth and make them sentient. I chose to update the geth and then they proceeded to wipe out the quarians and then Tali killed herself in front of me .

ChronoReverse
Oct 1, 2009


AppleCobbler posted:

Is it wrong that I felt legitimately sad after the geth vs. quarian mission where you decide whether or not to update the geth and make them sentient. I chose to update the geth and then they proceeded to wipe out the quarians and then Tali killed herself in front of me .

You would be a terrible person if you didn't =P

MadRhetoric
Feb 18, 2011

I POSSESS QUESTIONABLE TASTE IN TOUHOU GAMES


Lotish posted:

This would be awesome if you could insult him at every opportunity for being a smug git. If even the auto-dialogue Shep basically treated him like an unsympathetic Conrad.

"Commander, my augmentations make me the superior choice to fight the--"
"That's nice, Kai. Hack this terminal."
"But Commander, I am a master nin--"
"Terminal. Now. Or I break your sword again."

I liked Kai Leng a lot because of this. He's an ~*anime badass*~ who's good at running away and cheap shots, when you finally fight him straight up you mock him incessantly, and he comes off as a cocky git who tries too hard. Struggling against an assassin suffering from oxygen deprivation, beating Shep through trickery and a gunship, and getting gutted by space Jesus isn't the best track record for an uber-badass. Kid needed another thousand years.

That Thessia message was a masterstroke troll, though.


The fact that people are salty about him means be did his job as a heel well.

Capt Happhypants
Mar 16, 2009


So I just read a good article about why the ending is bad in so many ways. I tend to be very forgiving of movies, games, and all sorts of media and try to enjoy myself no matter what. I was willing to appreciate whatever ending ME3 gave me, but after reading this (massive spoilers in it so don't read if you don't want to know them) I truly do hope that Bioware will do something to fix it at some point, even if I have to buy a freaking DLC to get a better resolution:

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effec...fans-are-right/

If nothing else it would be nice to get a press release explaining why they decided to butcher the end as badly as they did, even if it is, "We ran out of time and the finance guys said to shoehorn this rubbish in."

Charlie Mopps
Jan 27, 2007

Beter twee tetten in de hand dan tien op de vlucht.


Capt Happhypants posted:

So I just read a good article about why the ending is bad in so many ways. I tend to be very forgiving of movies, games, and all sorts of media and try to enjoy myself no matter what. I was willing to appreciate whatever ending ME3 gave me, but after reading this (massive spoilers in it so don't read if you don't want to know them) I truly do hope that Bioware will do something to fix it at some point, even if I have to buy a freaking DLC to get a better resolution:

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effec...fans-are-right/

If nothing else it would be nice to get a press release explaining why they decided to butcher the end as badly as they did, even if it is, "We ran out of time and the finance guys said to shoehorn this rubbish in."
They will never do that. There have been a few responses and it ranges from 'this ending has people talking about it, so its really smart and philosophical ' to 'we wont reply now because people are still playing the game [and we have no idea how to deal with this backlash]' to 'we dont make games for the players' (lol).

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



I liked the ending. Call me crazy!

e: to elaborate I felt like it fit and made sense and was moving and etc. It actually seems quite shocking to me that there are gaming news outlets up in arms about it.

Android Blues fucked around with this message at Mar 15, 2012 around 17:15

melon farmer
Oct 28, 2009

My boy says he can eat fifty eggs, he can eat fifty eggs!


Android Blues posted:

I liked the ending. Call me crazy!

e: to elaborate I felt like it fit and made sense and was moving and etc. It actually seems quite shocking to me that there are gaming news outlets up in arms about it.

I'm jealous

I want to feel that feeling

Lotish
Dec 10, 2008

I pick up my Devil Axe...
...and DEVIL!


Android Blues posted:

I liked the ending. Call me crazy!

e: to elaborate I felt like it fit and made sense and was moving and etc. It actually seems quite shocking to me that there are gaming news outlets up in arms about it.

Perhaps you're ready to watch this then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPel...eature=youtu.be

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Lotish posted:

Perhaps you're ready to watch this then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPel...eature=youtu.be

Okay, that's pretty lame. Having only seen the synthesis ending I guess I figured the other two were different.

I still liked what I saw though!

Gadzuko
Feb 14, 2005


Android Blues posted:

Okay, that's pretty lame. Having only seen the synthesis ending I guess I figured the other two were different.

I still liked what I saw though!

Out of curiosity, did you start with ME1 and carry forward a save through the whole series, or come in at a later point?

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Gadzuko posted:

Out of curiosity, did you start with ME1 and carry forward a save through the whole series, or come in at a later point?

The former.

Gadzuko
Feb 14, 2005


Ah. Everyone I know who finished the game dislikes the ending for the lack of any kind of epilogue about the characters and choices you made, and I was curious if that might not bother someone who was late to the party quite so much.

richardfun
Aug 10, 2008

Twenty years? It's no wonder I'm so hungry. Do you have anything to eat?

Capt Happhypants posted:

So I just read a good article about why the ending is bad in so many ways. I tend to be very forgiving of movies, games, and all sorts of media and try to enjoy myself no matter what. I was willing to appreciate whatever ending ME3 gave me, but after reading this (massive spoilers in it so don't read if you don't want to know them) I truly do hope that Bioware will do something to fix it at some point, even if I have to buy a freaking DLC to get a better resolution:

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effec...fans-are-right/

If nothing else it would be nice to get a press release explaining why they decided to butcher the end as badly as they did, even if it is, "We ran out of time and the finance guys said to shoehorn this rubbish in."

All that rage and disappointment I'd been feeling, perfectly worded. Cheers to the author

richardfun
Aug 10, 2008

Twenty years? It's no wonder I'm so hungry. Do you have anything to eat?

Charlie Mopps posted:

It really summarizes the game. its beautiful throughout, you get this buildup to watch a great ending and then it just stops.

And a very well executed cover, for good measure

Now I wish I played the piano...

The Quake
Nov 1, 2006



Is anyone else disappointed that none of the rooms seemed to get used much at all on the Normandy? I guess I'm just used to there being someone in every room from ME2, but except for the occasional special event they were empty most of the time.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Watch that tongue... sticky!


The Quake posted:

Is anyone else disappointed that none of the rooms seemed to get used much at all on the Normandy? I guess I'm just used to there being someone in every room from ME2, but except for the occasional special event they were empty most of the time.

I preferred that actually. People wandering around made it feel more like people inhabited the ship instead of "Welp, thanks for recruiting me Shepard, time to stand in this one room and NEVER LEAVE."

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

The last thing Killstealing sees before his mustache ride.

~*~Straight Balling~*~


I'm just disappointed the poker table never got used. It was cool though to see people lounge in random areas, just chatting. Makes it feel more alive.

Count Choculitis
Sep 13, 2007

I love you, Shepard. I always have. I want to understand what this is between us... and make it real.


Davincie posted:

I'm just disappointed the poker table never got used. It was cool though to see people lounge in random areas, just chatting. Makes it feel more alive.

It does if you have Kaidan. He and James play, and James kicks his rear end, unsurprisingly, haha

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

Capt Happhypants posted:

So I just read a good article about why the ending is bad in so many ways. I tend to be very forgiving of movies, games, and all sorts of media and try to enjoy myself no matter what. I was willing to appreciate whatever ending ME3 gave me, but after reading this (massive spoilers in it so don't read if you don't want to know them) I truly do hope that Bioware will do something to fix it at some point, even if I have to buy a freaking DLC to get a better resolution:

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effec...fans-are-right/
I agree with some of that article but I think a lot of it is just more complaining for the sake of it. I found this article to be more compelling, because it points out the absurdity while also ponting out how ridiculous the idea of BioWare "fixing" the ending should be.

Charlie Mopps
Jan 27, 2007

Beter twee tetten in de hand dan tien op de vlucht.


kuddles posted:

I agree with some of that article but I think a lot of it is just more complaining for the sake of it. I found this article to be more compelling, because it points out the absurdity while also ponting out how ridiculous the idea of BioWare "fixing" the ending should be.
I hate this idea that fixing the ending is some horrible thing. We arent talking about art here (and even artwork sometimes get changed if the people paying for it dont like it), we are talking about a consumer product which a shitload of people are complaining about. We dont think that fixing bugs is strange, or that fixing performance issues is strange, and neither get bitching about such things called having 'entitlement issues'. Yet the story is apparently sacred and cannot and should not be touched.

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



I didn't hate the endings because I feel they are just misplaced mostly; they feel disconnected and you can tell the writing had a heel face turn at some point there.

Aristobulus
Mar 20, 2007

Slap omni-gel on
everything.



These avatars paid for Lowtax new boat.


Charlie Mopps posted:

I hate this idea that fixing the ending is some horrible thing. We arent talking about art here (and even artwork sometimes get changed if the people paying for it dont like it), we are talking about a consumer product which a shitload of people are complaining about. We dont think that fixing bugs is strange, or that fixing performance issues is strange, and neither get bitching about such things called having 'entitlement issues'. Yet the story is apparently sacred and cannot and should not be touched.

Seriously. There is no medium where changes to a released product should be accepted, than videogames. Patches and expansions are a common occurrence.

XyloJW
Jul 23, 2007


Looked through the first couple pages and the last couple pages and didn't see anything about this.

Where can I buy Mass Effect 1 for the 360 at a normal price? I bought it for $10 a couple years back, and now every online merchant wants $40-$60 for it, and I can't afford that. $20-$25 would be acceptable.

MrJacobs
Sep 15, 2008


Why did Cerberus attack the salarian base for Eve or the citadel again? I understood assaulting mars for information on how to use the reapers and control them, but was the attack on the citadel simply to try and kill the council or to capture the citadel for the catalyst or something? And why would the krogans be an immediate threat to their operation?

strangemusic
Aug 7, 2008



Ryan-RB posted:

Javik: It is interesting to see the lesser races of my cycle--Asari, Humans, Turians--ruling this one.
Liara: The Salarians as well.
Javik: The lizards?
Liara: I believe they are amphibian.
Javik: ...they used to eat flies.

A bit late, but Javik's joke-related conversation with Vega had me falling out of my Goddamn chair laughing. He really is the greatest. the joke is now on you, human.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



Charlie Mopps posted:

I hate this idea that fixing the ending is some horrible thing. We arent talking about art here (and even artwork sometimes get changed if the people paying for it dont like it), we are talking about a consumer product which a shitload of people are complaining about. We dont think that fixing bugs is strange, or that fixing performance issues is strange, and neither get bitching about such things called having 'entitlement issues'. Yet the story is apparently sacred and cannot and should not be touched.
This is a point with which I agree, backed by a reasoning with which I couldn't disagree more.

In my opinion, Mass Effect definitely qualifies as art (even if you think it's bad art, it's still art; also, it doesn't mean it can't be a consumer product at the same time). However, even artwork is changed all the drat time, especially when it's a collaborative project or when it's bound by logistical necessities.

For the most obvious example, a shitload of films get Director's Cuts that change the theatrical version in ways that the artists involved feel are an improvement. That has nothing to do with pandering or entitlement.

I do agree, however, that Bioware should not make a new ending unless they believe in it - unless they believe that they can do a better one and that Mass Effect would be better off for it. But if they do not believe that, if they believe that the current ending is the right and proper one, they should say that outright and defend their artistic choices, not wish-wash.

skoolmunkee
Jun 27, 2004

Tell your friends we're coming for them



MrJacobs posted:

Why did Cerberus attack the salarian base for Eve or the citadel again? I understood assaulting mars for information on how to use the reapers and control them, but was the attack on the citadel simply to try and kill the council or to capture the citadel for the catalyst or something? And why would the krogans be an immediate threat to their operation?

Regarding Eve, there was a Cerberus informant at the STG base (which I don't think they found while you were around). Presumably he tells Cerberus that there is a cured krogan on site and Shepard is coming for her. I'm guessing that either Cerberus decided anything Shepard wants, they should try to get first. Or, they might also gain leverage on the krogans by delivering Eve (or holding her hostage) themselves. As far as the Citadel, it's explained that was an attempted takeover facilitated by Udina- I'm guessing that they would have pulled the same stunt on the Citadel as they did on their other holdings, indoctrinate the populace to create shock troops. It would also make a pretty good base of operations! But I can't remember if they actually explained. They can't have known it was the catalyst though. Considering how closely connected the citadel is with the reapers though they probably figured it was an asset worth having regardless.

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

Charlie Mopps posted:

I hate this idea that fixing the ending is some horrible thing. We arent talking about art here (and even artwork sometimes get changed if the people paying for it dont like it), we are talking about a consumer product which a shitload of people are complaining about. We dont think that fixing bugs is strange, or that fixing performance issues is strange, and neither get bitching about such things called having 'entitlement issues'. Yet the story is apparently sacred and cannot and should not be touched.
It's art. If it wasn't art and was just a video game product than people wouldn't be bitching so much about how it ended. The video game landscape is filled with lovely endings.

Furthermore, I cannot think of anything more dangerous and stupid then suddenly setting a precedent that the story in games should be changed so that it satisfies the vocal minority of their core audience, especially when it comes to something like the BioWare fanbase.

What should they do? Take a poll to determine the new ending? Ask what everyone wants at the end and take a bit of each suggestion? The ending sucked but it happened and demands that they "fix" it is silly entitlement nonsense. I'm not outside the front doors of Warner Brothers with my ticket to The Matrix Revolutions screaming that they need to re-film it according to my personal preferences.

kuddles fucked around with this message at Mar 15, 2012 around 18:58

Loving Life Partner
Apr 17, 2003

You want to file a WHAT!?

I just don't understand why the ending of the series has everyone so knotted up. The ending is just an ending. Stephen King illustrated this so well in the last volume of Dark Tower.

It's always about the journey, and more specifically, the climax, a good story has a slow build, and then a ramping up of events that leads to the top of the rollercoaster, and then it's all winding down. Remember how you felt after Harbinger blasts the Hammer squad, Shepard is half vaporized and stumbling toward the beam, and manages to barely hold his pistol up to put 4 more reaper troops on ice as he stumbles into the light? THAT'S the good bit. That's the peak of the story, it illustrates Shepard's entire character perfectly. Everything after that is the winding down, the tieing of ends, the capping off.

Viperix
Apr 21, 2006


Quick thoughts on the ending:

I think the main problem with the ending, irrelevant of your opinion on the philosophy presented, comes down to this: Mass Effect seems to be first and foremost about two things, characters, and choice. In the endings as they currently are, your choices are largely irrelevant, and the characters are left unresolved, or at best, in a really weird nonsensical place. Yes, there are consequences for having very low Effective War Score, but for how much Bioware played up the readiness/building an army aspect, all of that ends up having little to no effect. It makes it feel like whats the point in putting all that work in across three games. You ended a three century war between Quarians and Geth? You actually managed get the Krogan and Turians to play nice? So basically you've made a career performing the impossible. Well. Congratulations. It means gently caress-all for how things turn out in the end.

Slate Action
Feb 13, 2012

My work here is done.

kuddles posted:

Furthermore, I cannot think of anything more dangerous and stupid then suddenly setting a precedent that the story in games should be changed so that it satisfies the vocal minority of their core audience, especially when it comes to something like the BioWare fanbase.

Do you think there is a way that Bioware can come out with DLC that introduces a new, alternate ending without canonizing that ending as the 'correct' or 'best' one?

Red Crown
Oct 20, 2008

Pretend my finger's a knife.

The thing with Kai Leng is that he isn't the ~~animu ninja~~ wet dream he looks like, his character is actually lifted/a reference to the novel Neuromancer (which is a must read if you haven't). In Neuromancer, there is a ninja who fights blindfolded in certain areas. It's a throwback to the 80s sci-fi that started a lot of what we see as cliche now.

Also, Vanguards are the ultimate space badasses, even if Infiltrators are probably the most effective in combat. Seriously, I've taken down a Brute in 3 shots as an infiltrator.

Aristobulus
Mar 20, 2007

Slap omni-gel on
everything.



These avatars paid for Lowtax new boat.


Slate Action posted:

Do you think there is a way that Bioware can come out with DLC that introduces a new, alternate ending without canonizing that ending as the 'correct' or 'best' one?

Easily. Simply add a 4th option to the end, where Shepard can refuse to take any of those choices presented to him and shouts down/fights the StarChild. This way, you can still have the game ending with Shepard taking one of those choices if you want, and all 4 are equally canon

PunkBoy
Aug 22, 2008

Do I have everybody's attention now?


Just finished the game. One question:

Is there any way to get the final Paragon/Renegade choice in the Illusive Man conversation in the first run? Even after importing a character and getting the reputation bar to what I thought was max, both options were grayed out.

And the one thing that annoyed me about Kai-Leng was that I couldn't be a class like his. Ever since back in 1 where Kaiden says he snapped a turian's neck with a biotic kick, I always wanted to do biotic kung-fu. Seriously, it would be like a mix of Vanguard and Infiltrator, the best of everything!

Spikeguy
Jul 30, 2005

That awkward moment when you get shot by your wife, in front of your wife, who then proceeds to try to kill your wife, while your best friend is off to the side pregnant, with your wife.

cell posted:

For like 50 credits.

If only! 15

CaptainCarrot
Jun 9, 2010


kuddles posted:

Furthermore, I cannot think of anything more dangerous and stupid then suddenly setting a precedent that the story in games should be changed so that it satisfies the vocal minority of their core audience, especially when it comes to something like the BioWare fanbase.
Why? Movies and books change their endings all the time when the screening audience objects. And where are you getting the 'minority' bit, or is this just unprovable 'silent majority' crap?

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


PunkBoy posted:

Just finished the game. One question:

Is there any way to get the final Paragon/Renegade choice in the Illusive Man conversation in the first run? Even after importing a character and getting the reputation bar to what I thought was max, both options were grayed out.

Apparently you have to make some certain decisions in 2 and explore all of that characters dialogue in every instance you talk with him in 3 making sure to take every paragon or renegade option that comes up.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010
Bench press was, is and will never be a great chest builder.

Loving Life Partner posted:

I just don't understand why the ending of the series has everyone so knotted up. The ending is just an ending.

I'd argue that it's not even that, except in the sense of "this is where we stopped making it".

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MadHat
Mar 31, 2011


PunkBoy posted:

Just finished the game. One question:

Is there any way to get the final Paragon/Renegade choice in the Illusive Man conversation in the first run? Even after importing a character and getting the reputation bar to what I thought was max, both options were grayed out.

You have to be consistant in all your colored responses to him throughout the game, always Red or Always Blue. To make things worse one of the choices in hidden in a side conversation [Left side convo wheel] so many people never see it.

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