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Dominic White posted:More ending talk: The control ending is still pretty dark too, all Mass Relays are toast but, eh. You're right. A)They can be rebuilt with reaper/geth/whatever help and B) all species are now at a severely depopulated Earth, so maybe it is a new beginning. But I simply don't trust this was the direction. I hope it is, I do, I'm just not sure whoever wrote that actually planned something good. It's still not good enough.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:35 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 04:21 |
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DivisionPost posted:I wish it was exhausting. Then I could get some sleep instead of trying to come to terms with it. If it helps, we're with you. Well, I am at least. I get myself wrapped up in stories, books, videogames, whatever. When it doesn't resolve properly it feels like something is just innately wrong. It's irritating to think that this is the ending we're stuck with after the 100+ hours I spent on this drat series. Oh well, there will be plenty 'o time to bitch tomorrow.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:37 |
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I'm gonna speak out in defense of this ending. For all the ways it was bad, at least it didn't make anything else retroactively dumber. And there are a lot of crummy endings out there that do just that.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:37 |
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Bongo Bill posted:I'm gonna speak out in defense of this ending. For all the ways it was bad, at least it didn't make anything else retroactively dumber. And there are a lot of crummy endings out there that do just that. It kind of broke Mass Effect 1's plot
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:40 |
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Bongo Bill posted:I'm gonna speak out in defense of this ending. For all the ways it was bad, at least it didn't make anything else retroactively dumber. And there are a lot of crummy endings out there that do just that. Can you explain/give example?
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:40 |
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Pladdicus posted:The control ending is still pretty dark too, all Mass Relays are toast but, eh. You're right. A)They can be rebuilt with reaper/geth/whatever help and B) all species are now at a severely depopulated Earth, so maybe it is a new beginning. But I simply don't trust this was the direction. I hope it is, I do, I'm just not sure whoever wrote that actually planned something good. It's still not good enough. I've taken 'control' as the good ending. Because the Geth are still alive, the earth has some of the smartest scientists in the galaxy on it and you are in charge of a bunch of dudes that know how to rebuild the mass relays. I think it's kind of a 'Team Reaper fixed up all the poo poo they hosed and then went off into the west' kind of ending. But seriously, job 1 as leader of team reaper is all the reapers that look creepy as poo poo go off and do back of house jobs. If I am going to rebuild the universe for everyone, I want it done by creatures that don't look like my dead uncle.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:40 |
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DivisionPost posted:I wish it was exhausting. Then I could get some sleep instead of trying to come to terms with it. There was so much foreshadowing leading up to the Cerberus mission and during the Earth invasion that I came to terms with Shephard sacrificing himself. But the way the Destroy ending went (gently caress the Reapers. I waited three God drat games to kill them) and the in-conclusion that followed, just...gently caress.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:42 |
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thumb posted:So much nerd rage about this ending. Thumb since nobody explained this to you yet the child vi is the same child that Shepard kept seeing in his dreams and was the personification of his emotional investment in the war at large, the guilt over everyone who died, etc. The reason the Catalyst took on the form of that child specifically is most likely some Contact reference to beings beyond our imagination taking a form that they'd comprehend.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:43 |
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s0nar posted:I just beat the game. What an underwhelming and exhausting finish. I'm kind of underwhelmed, but people comparing it to the Fallout 3 ending are bonkers. My main misgiving is that we don't get enough on the impact of the last decision with regards to the rest of the galaxy. Hell, we don't even really get much post-game closure on characters we've gotten really attached to. While I think it could have done better, it didn't leave me with the feeling that the writers realized there was a really easy fix the player should be able to use for the dilemma that they hastily covered up two seconds before the game went gold.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:44 |
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Heliotic posted:I've taken 'control' as the good ending. Because the Geth are still alive, the earth has some of the smartest scientists in the galaxy on it and you are in charge of a bunch of dudes that know how to rebuild the mass relays. I think it's kind of a 'Team Reaper fixed up all the poo poo they hosed and then went off into the west' kind of ending. Haha, well I can side with this somewhat. It makes me a little bit more comfortable. Also! For Kelly Chamber fans! She appears on the citadel, you can chat with her, but she won't come back to the Normandy, reoccurring nightmares of her capture. After the citadel is raided she can no longer be found and your engineers, if pardoned, tell you she was found, asked for her name and then shot dead. If you never had dinner with her, she won't appear at all. If you do save her, she'll email you and join up, also if she was taking care of your fish, she will return them. Oh but it doesn't stop there. If you talk to her after her name change she lets you know the Illusive man ordered her to spy on you, apparently you can yell at her and it's found out later she killed herself with cyanide out of depression. Eesh.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:45 |
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Defiance Industries posted:I'm kind of underwhelmed, but people comparing it to the Fallout 3 ending are bonkers. My main misgiving is that we don't get enough on the impact of the last decision with regards to the rest of the galaxy. Hell, we don't even really get much post-game closure on characters we've gotten really attached to. While I think it could have done better, it didn't leave me with the feeling that the writers realized there was a really easy fix the player should be able to use for the dilemma that they hastily covered up two seconds before the game went gold. The ending to Fallout 3 loving ruled. That's how you do a sacrifice ending.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:46 |
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s0nar posted:The ending to Fallout 3 loving ruled. That's how you do a sacrifice ending. Agreed. This was not that. It was a downer, and broken steel was cool, but the ending stood on its own.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:47 |
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Dominic White posted:More ending talk: Your earlier post hits the nail on the head with how you saw the Paragon/Renegade TIM vs Anderson thing, though I think Synthesis is a good paragon option as well, being that it has the same effect as blue, but avoids any chance for the destruction of this cycle due to what the catalyst was trying to prevent. Control and destruction both implied that the imminent threat would be dispatched, but eventually poo poo would go haywire again, reapers or not. That being said, the point is almost moot because of how terrible all the endings are. Bring on Mass Effect 3: Broken Steel. Ideally, it would just give an ending similar to destroy, but without the mass relays being destroyed, or the geth/EDI being killed. The DLC would consist of various cutscenes and things to do in an epilogue, like going to the various planets and talking to people about what happened. Maybe some Cerberus mop-up missions just to have some kind of combat addition. edit: Don't want to derail, but the whole thing with Fawkes made the Fallout 3 ending stupid as hell, don't know what you guys are talking about.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:49 |
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DivisionPost posted:I wish it was exhausting. Then I could get some sleep instead of trying to come to terms with it. I'm with you. It's 6 AM here, and I can't sleep because I can't get over how godawful the ending for this series was. It's just depressing. 
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:53 |
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Darke GBF posted:The problem with synthesis is that it's really really stupid/nonsense
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:55 |
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s0nar posted:The ending to Fallout 3 loving ruled. That's how you do a sacrifice ending. You're seriously defending FO3's vanilla ending? The one where you have the radiation-immune mutant or the ghoul who is HEALED by radiation or a drat robot, and you turn to them and say "Hey, here's the code, can you press it so I won't die to the thing you are healed by?" And they respond, "Nope! Have fun dying in there. I'm gonna watch." It was the kind of plot hole that makes you scream at the monitor when it happens. It was the only time I've done that Captain Picard facepalm meme in real life.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 10:58 |
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So the reapers are a force that is trying to prevent technological singularity, ie the destruction of organic life through the development of synthetics replacing people by invading when society gets advanced enough...er. Then they take people and melt them down to preserve their species but otherwise leave the less advanced beings? Bringing it up like that it almost seems...sensical. Help?
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:00 |
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randombattle posted:So serious question now While on some level I'd like to say I would, for me it really depends on how Bioware addresses the situation. If they handle it in the manner they did the complaints on DA2, then they'd have to be packing a gently caress of a lot (think more on the lines of the old school expansion packs) into the DLC to get my money. If they give us a wider range of endings such as the 'happy wedding with Chakwas catching the bouquet' and the 'Galaxy dead with Shepard laughing insanely as she breathes her last amidst the ruins' along with some more missions to help balance out this reported discrepancy between what's possible pointwise without multiplayer or to even help pad out previous choice repercussions, it'd ease some of my sourness over the situation. As it stands now, I won't be doing anymore pre-orders of fancy versions of Bioware games, and if they handle this like they did in the DA2 situation, only thing I'd consider of Bioware's then would be a big maybe on Jade Empire 2.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:01 |
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Pladdicus posted:So the reapers are a force that is trying to prevent technological singularity, ie the destruction of organic life through the development of synthetics replacing people by invading when society gets advanced enough...er. Then they take people and melt them down to preserve their species but otherwise leave the less advanced beings? Almost, except reapers themselves are synthetics. Closest analogy would be a god saving his creations by killing them. It doesn't make any sense.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:03 |
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freeforumuser posted:Almost, except reapers themselves are synthetics. Closest analogy would be a god saving his creations by killing them. It doesn't make any sense. They're closer to a mix. A synthetic shell made from organic life. They're a living museum of whatever species they came from, you get this strongly on the Quarian planet of you tell the reaper they're hosed and get the paragon quick time. It's more like the only known way they had of preventing synthetic life from simply destroying organic by 'over-evolving' while still preserving what the species were. If it was handled like this I may have even liked the ending. But they were eldricht horrors who did not have any of this poo poo explained at all.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:06 |
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Pladdicus posted:So the reapers are a force that is trying to prevent technological singularity, ie the destruction of organic life through the development of synthetics replacing people by invading when society gets advanced enough...er. Then they take people and melt them down to preserve their species but otherwise leave the less advanced beings? Yeah. I think something people aren't getting is that the Reapers are not, like, killing everything instead of letting them be killed by their own synthetics. They destroy advanced civilizations and allow the smaller ones to continue growing. There's a lot of unexplained stuff, though, about how the Reapers "influence civilization to grow in certain ways" with the Citadel, mass relays, etc. Is there no way they could have influenced civilization to, y'know, not make loving synthetics, since otherwise they appear to follow the patterns they set out? By the way, my favorite mostly-ignored plot point in the game is the beacon on Thessia. Maybe if I had the DLC character it would have had more exposition/explanation? Liara seemed pretty loving bummed that her entire civilization's advancements have been based on that secret beacon, and that's how they overtook the galaxy - I would have liked to at least have seen her talking to the Asari leaders about it or something.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:08 |
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ASK ME ABOUT GETTING REAL MAD IN A SECRET SANTA FOR RECEIVING THE EXACT GAG PRESENT I ASKED FOR AND THEN DOING A COMPLETE U-TURN WHEN I REALISED IT WASN'T EVEN THE ENTIRE PRESENT
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Sacrificial Toast posted:I'm with you. It's 6 AM here, and I can't sleep because I can't get over how godawful the ending for this series was. It's just depressing. What makes it worse for me is that I enjoyed almost everything else about it, even the stuff that was silly (such as the scene where you can seduce Kelly's replacement if you rolled a FemShep) (I have a very different definition of silly from most of the forum). Not only does the suck of this ending negate all that, it also negates the replayability of the other ME games. Why go through all that trouble when you know the journey's going to end THERE? And the sad thing is, I never bothered to come in here to gush about what I was digging on because "Oh, these guys probably just hate everything I like about this game for reasons I can't sympathize at all with. Nerd rage  "I really hope I can forgive Bioware for this eventually, but the fact that I feel compelled to talk about "forgiving" Bioware makes me hate myself.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:09 |
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Pladdicus posted:So the reapers are a force that is trying to prevent technological singularity, ie the destruction of organic life through the development of synthetics replacing people by invading when society gets advanced enough...er. Then they take people and melt them down to preserve their species but otherwise leave the less advanced beings? I've been thinking of it as an 'organic life archival service': "We will clear your universe of pesky sentient organics, and archive their DNA/life story so you can look at them any time you want." It's a bit more interesting if you 'add-on' that they could be working on a 'long term' solution to the problem (of synthetic life constantly rebelling) in the background, and if they ever find this solution they can use the 'reaper' data to recreate all the races they absorbed. At least enough bodies to repopulate the race, along with all of their historical data.) It makes them seem less 'we are evil for reasons you can't comprehend' and more 'we are doing really twisted things for what we consider to be a good reason'. There is a sci-fi series out there by Alastair Reynolds with a similar premise (robots cull off organic civilisations that show up) and they do it because that they want to keep 'life' to a basic form until after a massive 'galaxy on galaxy' collision happens, because they see it as the best way to ensure that 'life' continues. Single celled organisms might survive on at least a few worlds, but a complex trade federation isn't going to survive. God, I've written a lot of words about video games tonight. Heliotic fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2012 around 11:12 |
| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:10 |
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Anal Tributary posted:Yeah. I think something people aren't getting is that the Reapers are not, like, killing everything instead of letting them be killed by their own synthetics. They destroy advanced civilizations and allow the smaller ones to continue growing. I think undue influence was to be avoided? I don't think you can stall progress like that for very long, it's the natural next step I guess. Wow, excellent catch on that last bit, I totally forgot about it. Really wish they did explain it further.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:10 |
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Anal Tributary posted:Yeah. I think something people aren't getting is that the Reapers are not, like, killing everything instead of letting them be killed by their own synthetics. They destroy advanced civilizations and allow the smaller ones to continue growing. Yeah she actually has a nice conversation with your prothean party member about the whole thing. I can't imagine how confusing that whole point is without him.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:11 |
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Heliotic posted:I've been thinking of it as an 'organic life archival service': "We will clear your universe of pesky sentient organics, and archive their DNA/life story so you can look at them any time you want." It's a bit more interesting if you 'add-on' that they could be working on a 'long term' solution to the problem (of synthetic life constantly rebelling) in the background, and if they ever find this solution they can use the 'reaper' data to recreate all the races they absorbed. At least enough people to repopulate the race, along with all of their historical data.) It makes them seem less 'we are evil for reasons you can't comprehend' and more 'we are doing really twisted things for what we consider to be a good reason'. This is pretty much how I've begun to view it. And it makes sense to me and is okay. I think it's still a crummy ending that was handled like poo poo and came out of nowhere. But there's a rationalization I can hang my hat on here. Still what a bad direction to go in. Take the feel of the last 30 minutes. Hold the line! Fighting all out against the reaper forces. The hell run, the taking the laser to the face and still surviving. Shooting husks that charge you, taking a shoot and pushing forward. Ending up in the horror that is the citadel reaper base, pushing on through to...a weird confrontation with the Illusive Man, oh okay that's fine, gotta activate the crucible...! And....what?
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:13 |
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Heliotic posted:It's a bit more interesting if you 'add-on' that they could be working on a 'long term' solution to the problem (of synthetic life constantly rebelling) in the background, and if they ever find this solution they can use the 'reaper' data to recreate all the races they absorbed. At least enough bodies to repopulate the race, along with all of their historical data.) It makes them seem less 'we are evil for reasons you can't comprehend' and more 'we are doing really twisted things for what we consider to be a good reason'. This is what one of the the DLCs should be about, as a mid-story mission that fixes the awfully-presented motivations for the Reapers. Bring back Harbinger to explain all of this, add some stuff about older cycles and how the Crucible was made... maybe even include, or at least hint at, the creators of the Reapers.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:16 |
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DivisionPost posted:What makes it worse for me is that I enjoyed almost everything else about it, even the stuff that was silly (such as the scene where you can seduce Kelly's replacement if you rolled a FemShep) (I have a very different definition of silly from most of the forum). Not only does the suck of this ending negate all that, it also negates the replayability of the other ME games. Why go through all that trouble when you know the journey's going to end THERE? Yeah, I was having a blast with the game up until literally the last 5 minutes. (well, also getting killed by That one marauder in the final sequence heading to the portal 3 times, ruining the tension of what was otherwise a really cool scene). I was planning to do some other playthroughs, but not anymore. I'll probably fiddle around with the multiplayer, because I find the combat and powers in the game fun, but I think I'm done with the single player.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:16 |
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Sacrificial Toast posted:Yeah, I was having a blast with the game up until literally the last 5 minutes. (well, also getting killed by That one marauder in the final sequence heading to the portal 3 times, ruining the tension of what was otherwise a really cool scene). I was planning to do some other playthroughs, but not anymore. I'll probably fiddle around with the multiplayer, because I find the combat and powers in the game fun, but I think I'm done with the single player. There's a lot of cool gems in the campaign. But I think, with certainty, the last few hours will be identical to pretty much everyone.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:18 |
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I have to agree with the not wanting to play through again sentiment. I have a total of four character who went all the way through one and two, and I don't even have the strength to turn my xbox back on, let alone play any more of three. Bummer of the century.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:19 |
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quote:On a much more superficial note: I wonder if anyone else noticed that (endgame)the Crucible looks like a giant microphone which ends up broadcasting this massive command to the Reapers. Rickrolling the reapers to death. Extra Smooth Balls fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2012 around 11:26 |
| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:21 |
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I just beat the game. I had already warmed up to the ending in spoiler form, but the execution of it was amazing. I guess this is going to be like the BSG ending all over again, where I repeatedly get into internet arguments about how no, really, this ending really is the culmination of themes explored throughout the rest of the series.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:22 |
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Rincewind posted:I just beat the game. I had already warmed up to the ending in spoiler form, but the execution of it was amazing. I guess this is going to be like the BSG ending all over again, where I repeatedly get into internet arguments about how no, really, this ending really is the culmination of themes explored throughout the rest of the series. The problem is, the only theme that is obviously explored by the ending is the synthetic/organic conflict that is so covered by the Geth and the Quarians. That being the ultimate motivation for the Reapers seems so redundant in many ways. I will say that, for going with that theme, the Control, Synthesis, and Destroy endings were great for being "Paragon, Middle, Renegade." That was smart, managing to be fairly complex (with a third option) while exploring the duality that defined Shepard.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:25 |
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The issue with the ending is (non-spoily, really - just generalities)that it just ends on the big final Paragon/Renegade/Whatever decision with no epilogue to speak of. They basically force the player to imagine what happens to the characters after your decision. You make your choice, but other than a very brief look at the immediate effects, you don't find out any long-term consequences. Any real epilogue would have had to be an hour-long cutscene taking in a ridiculous number of possibilities if they had done an epilogue, though. You did a lot of things over the course of the trilogy. I would have been cool with that - I wish they'd gone that route, and also understand why they didn't. I'm not nearly as enraged with the ending as some, though, as it does seem in keeping with most of the choices up to that point.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:27 |
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I'll remember these moments from the game: Garrus still calibratin' :3 Punching al-Jilani in the face again Being utterly shocked and furious when I lost Miranda AUTOMATIC FISH FEEDER Neil Ross narrating the codex again There are other positive ones, but those are what stand out right now.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:27 |
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Rincewind posted:I just beat the game. I had already warmed up to the ending in spoiler form, but the execution of it was amazing. I guess this is going to be like the BSG ending all over again, where I repeatedly get into internet arguments about how no, really, this ending really is the culmination of themes explored throughout the rest of the series. And i say this as someone who liked the BSG ending.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:27 |
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Rincewind posted:I just beat the game. I had already warmed up to the ending in spoiler form, but the execution of it was amazing. I guess this is going to be like the BSG ending all over again, where I repeatedly get into internet arguments about how no, really, this ending really is the culmination of themes explored throughout the rest of the series. Oh, man, as someone who liked the BSG ending, I sympathize. But I just don't have the strength to argue about it right now. I'll check in when I'm feeling less nerd-ragey and I can discuss it without sounding like a child.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:28 |
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I was dreading the ending after reading all the backlash in this thread.... and you guys are correct I don't get how anyone at EA or Bioware thought it was a good idea to end it on that note, It's like being close to finishing an ironman triathlon and quitting the race 10 feet from the finish line. I just can't comprehend how any professional writer that helped create the in depth mass effect universe decided to end it in such a terrible lovely way. It makes absolutely no sense at all to throw a stupid lovely rear end curve ball out of nowhere at the last to end a trilogy. Furthermore, I will never understand how a game budget that was in the tens of millions didn't think of hiring a competent reputable writer to read over and get his opinion on it. OG KUSH BLUNTS fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2012 around 11:31 |
| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:28 |
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Charlie Mopps posted:No, it isnt. It makes absolutely no sense. Not only would destroying the relays destroy every solar system a relay was in (so Earth and the combined fleets would, regardless of the chosen ending, be destroyed), it is a terrible ending because it gives no closure. And thats ignoring the dumbass thing with the Normandy flying through a relay with the people in your squad, which should have been killed by that reaper attack, while the normandy should have been on Earth or fighting Reaoers. I don't think the Normandy actually went through a relay, I think they were just hauling rear end at FTL speed to try and outrun the blast. Which makes it even more awkward that they landed on such a lush world.
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| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:30 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 04:21 |
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s0nar posted:I'll remember these moments from the game: The standout points for me are: Mordin dying in the tower. Having to choose the Geth over the Quarians and Tali killing herself. Talking to Joker about it later on. 'I'm Garrus Vakarian and this is my favorite place on the Citadel' after I let him win. Teaching EDI about self-sacrifice and getting it on with Joker. Shepherd and Anderson with the 'best seats in the house' exchange. Shepherd being called by Hackett and going 'What do you need me to do'. I was thinking 'Haven't I given enough already?'  These might have been attempts at easy heart-string pulling but they worked. 
Heliotic fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2012 around 11:41 |
| # ? Mar 10, 2012 11:30 |
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