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Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

I do remember one thing.

nifty1 posted:

With all the talk of running the pick and roll in this thread, I have a friend that's like 6'0, 230lbs of muscle brick wall that wants to run the pick and roll with me.

I basically know how it works but I did some google searching on it and watched a bunch of videos. I never played organized basketball so I've never had any coaching. I'm looking for tips that you might not pick up from one of those generic "how to coach" basketball sites. Anyone have any good tips, stories or experiences to share about running the pick and roll in 5v5 pickup games?

Come up with a signal. If you're doing it with someone you've never met, you'll probably have to call out loud for a screen, but if you can do something like hold your fist up, it's faster and it gets someone's attention more easily, especially if there are a lot of games going on. You also need to have your guy practice cutting to the hoop or popping out, depending on what he's better at, assuming that you're the ball handler.

Guide the guy into the pick and then use the separation to take an open shot or drive to the basket (if the big man comes to defend you), or if they double team you, pass it to the screener to either take a jump shot or drive to the hoop.

There's no secret to running the pick and roll. It's the most basic play in basketball and you can run it over and over until someone stops you, and to stop you, they need to know how to stop a pick and roll, because you're not going to just stumble into it.

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spamman
Jul 10, 2002

Chin up Tiger, There is always next season...

A thing with using screens in general is that you want to go really close to the screener yourself, to the point where you are just grazing them. If the defender doesn't know the pick is coming, or you've guided him in well, they will go right into the middle of your screener and you'll get a stack of space.

BigLeafyTree
Oct 21, 2010



spamman posted:

A thing with using screens in general is that you want to go really close to the screener yourself, to the point where you are just grazing them. If the defender doesn't know the pick is coming, or you've guided him in well, they will go right into the middle of your screener and you'll get a stack of space.

This. Bump shoulders with the person who sets the screen for you. It's annoying to set screens for someone who takes the screen so wide that the defender can follow them anyway. Take what the defense gives you and work with it. Don't decide ahead of time what you're doing after the P&R and force it no matter what. If you know your options, and when to use them it'll be much scarier.

spamman
Jul 10, 2002

Chin up Tiger, There is always next season...

Here's a crudely drawn picture of what I was trying to say:



And here's a really good nbaplaybook article from Pruiti, showing this a lot better using John Wall as an example.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/10/15/i...tter/#more-6157

Admiral BJ
May 28, 2005
Kicking ass and taking names

I usually set lots of screens for pick and rolls and just look at the situation to decide whether to cut or pop. Setting screens for a good shooter is nice too when they can get get a fairly open 3 right over you and their guy.

Speaking of screens, on defense yell out when one is gonna happen and if it's to the left or right. Also, if your teammate gets caught in the screen switch to their man if you need to.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009


Man the wind was blowing something fierce today but we played anyways. Nothing was going in unless it was up close or a bank shot.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

Valyrian, motherfucker! Do you speak it?!

spamman posted:

Here's a crudely drawn picture of what I was trying to say:



And here's a really good nbaplaybook article from Pruiti, showing this a lot better using John Wall as an example.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/10/15/i...tter/#more-6157

Sorry, but your drawing made me laugh really loving loud.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006



spamman posted:

Here's a crudely drawn picture of what I was trying to say:



And here's a really good nbaplaybook article from Pruiti, showing this a lot better using John Wall as an example.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/10/15/i...tter/#more-6157

Come on, at least mark that picture NWS or something.

Jack's Flow
Jun 6, 2003

What happen then, Mr Bones?
if be you cares to say.


teagone posted:

Sorry, but your drawing made me laugh really loving loud.
It's a high-res photograph straight out of Vinny del Negro's playbook though.

spamman
Jul 10, 2002

Chin up Tiger, There is always next season...

Jack's Flow posted:

It's a high-res photograph straight out of Vinny del Negro's playbook though.

....sshhhhhhh.....

stephelopholus
Feb 24, 2011


Someone had some fingernails last night. I have a nice sized scratch across my entire forehead, and clients have been staring at it all day.

Also a fight with real punches thrown during a game last night. Standard pick-up stuff.

Yaphet
Dec 30, 2006



What are your guys' opinions on people screaming/yelling/clapping at someone while they take a jumpshot? I think that poo poo is annoying as hell...

streetlamp
May 7, 2007

Danny likes his party hat
He does not like his banana hat

Yaphet posted:

What are your guys' opinions on people screaming/yelling/clapping at someone while they take a jumpshot? I think that poo poo is annoying as hell...

I've probably yelled at a few people taking a jump shot but if your doing it constantly its just annoying and immature.

Vladimir Putin
Mar 17, 2007
Pardon me sir, would you like to have some Polonium ?

stephelopholus posted:

Someone had some fingernails last night. I have a nice sized scratch across my entire forehead, and clients have been staring at it all day.

Also a fight with real punches thrown during a game last night. Standard pick-up stuff.

I hate fights at a pick up game. I reeaaallllly hate when someone gets on their bike/car and says "Ima get my buddies and kick your asses/Ima get my gun and shoot you all" Then I'm like "Oh gently caress, I didn't want to leave yet, but now I guess I have to."

stephelopholus
Feb 24, 2011


Vladimir Putin posted:

I hate fights at a pick up game. I reeaaallllly hate when someone gets on their bike/car and says "Ima get my buddies and kick your asses/Ima get my gun and shoot you all" Then I'm like "Oh gently caress, I didn't want to leave yet, but now I guess I have to."

"Yo man, I'm from Portland. I will gently caress you up." This was a real quote from the argument that lead to the fight. Realize we are playing at a gym 15 minutes away from downtown Portland, and i would guess at least 50% of the people there were from Portland. And Portland is the least intimidating city on the planet. Nothing about Portland or the people are scary.

Jack's Flow
Jun 6, 2003

What happen then, Mr Bones?
if be you cares to say.


stephelopholus posted:

Someone had some fingernails last night. I have a nice sized scratch across my entire forehead, and clients have been staring at it all day.

Also a fight with real punches thrown during a game last night. Standard pick-up stuff.
O punches! Story time:

I used to play in a gym where a lot of guys from the Philippines came to play. Good natured people who brought their families, so you had like ten of them playing while their wives and kids ran around the sidelines. One day, a couple of teenagers that none of us knew showed up and immediately started poo poo. They wore wifebeaters, lots of sweatbands and the laces of their shoes were untied... they were total clowns. One of them started to piss off one of the dudes from the Philippines, who was also a good friend of mine, constantly pushing him around, giving him cheap elbows, taking trash and doing stupid dribble tricks that amounted to nothing. I would say he was maybe 16 or 17 years old, 6'2" and somewhat athletic. My friend was 5'8", 30 years old and had just returned from his latest trip to Afghanistan with the US army. It was a disaster waiting to happen. And then, after about 90 minutes, when the teenager "boxed him out" by simply pushing him with both hands right into the wall underneath the basket, my friend snapped. He calmly turned around, didn't say a word and simply punched the teenager in the face. Broke his nose, gave him a concussion, there was blood everywhere. We were in total shock and the guy apologized profoundly. To us, his wife, his kids. But not the dude on the floor, he didn't even look at him.

Jack's Flow fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2012 around 05:33

Jota
May 6, 2003

uga-booga uga-booga

Hahah that is great. Only thing he should have apologized for was taking so long to do it.

nifty1
Feb 9, 2010


Thanks for the pick and roll tips. Sometimes when using picks in the past I think I wasn't getting close enough to the pick setter. Also in my experience most people aren't very good at rolling to the hoop and being open after setting a pick so I usually end up driving/shooting. I think when I start running it with a friend I can pass it off more. I'm going to try it tomorrow when I play.


quote:

Any recommendations for good basketball shoes?
The type of player you are determines what kind of shoe you should get.
I'm a 6'1 175 lbs athletic slashing type of player, I only play indoors so shoe durability is not an issue. My favorite shoe of all time is the Nike Zoom Kobe VI because it's super light weight(I think the lightest weight shoe Nike makes) and your feet feel really close to the ground for cutting and quickness. I'm on my 2nd pair, after maybe 8-9 months the sole started to get worn down. Before that I went through 3 pairs of the Nike Zoom BB 2 over a couple years which I liked for the same reasons but the Kobe VI is even lighter and lower to the ground.

Some other shoes are made for "big men" players. They have more stability and cushioning. For example I had a pair of Lebrons right before the Zoom BB 2 and I could tell a huge difference. Those things weighed a ton and I really didn't like them.

It bothers me when I see my friends who could afford a nice pair of basketball shoes wearing some 5 years old worn down shoes that aren't even made for basketball. Nice shoes make a difference.

(edit added some stuff about big man shoes)

nifty1 fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2012 around 07:57

BigLeafyTree
Oct 21, 2010



nifty1 posted:

Thanks for the pick and roll tips. Sometimes when using picks in the past I think I wasn't getting close enough to the pick setter. Also in my experience most people aren't very good at rolling to the hoop and being open after setting a pick so I usually end up driving/shooting. I think when I start running it with a friend I can pass it off more. I'm going to try it tomorrow when I play.

For people who don't know how to roll after a screen I just tell them "when I hit your screen, open up like a door and cut to the basket with a hand up". Works for me.

Shoe Talk: I've only been playing indoors and I've been wearing Nike Hyperdunks and they've been pretty great apart from forcing me to wear high socks or else I end up chafing my ankles raw after an hour.

Ironman
Jun 19, 2001
If you see this text that means I'm not working.

nifty1 posted:

Thanks for the pick and roll tips. Sometimes when using picks in the past I think I wasn't getting close enough to the pick setter. Also in my experience most people aren't very good at rolling to the hoop and being open after setting a pick so I usually end up driving/shooting. I think when I start running it with a friend I can pass it off more. I'm going to try it tomorrow when I play.


I'm a 6'1 175 lbs athletic slashing type of player, I only play indoors so shoe durability is not an issue. My favorite shoe of all time is the Nike Zoom Kobe VI because it's super light weight(I think the lightest weight shoe Nike makes) and your feet feel really close to the ground for cutting and quickness. I'm on my 2nd pair, after maybe 8-9 months the sole started to get worn down. Before that I went through 3 pairs of the Nike Zoom BB 2 over a couple years which I liked for the same reasons but the Kobe VI is even lighter and lower to the ground.

It bothers me when I see my friends who could afford a nice pair of basketball shoes wearing some 5 years old worn down shoes that aren't even made for basketball. Nice shoes make a difference.

I agree that the Kobe's are really nice basketball shoes. They feel incredibly light weight compared to most basketball shoes and I never had a problem with my ankles in them, if you are like me and have a history of making bad landings.

I'd advise you stay away from most Jordan brand shoes (the pro player models excepting) for that reason, as well. They're heavy, and thick soled which gives a sort of walking-on-air feeling. I was out of any sort of exercise for a month when I turned my ankle in them.

edit: That probably doesn't seem like a lot of missed time, but it is nearing a year later, and I still have weakness in my right ankle. I definitely think having the right shoes helps to protect against ankle injuries.

Ironman fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2012 around 08:00

Brolander
Oct 20, 2008



I have a school alumni tournament at the end of the month. Been a while since I balled, so I'm sort of nervous. My mechanics are still pretty good, my bread and butter is across the lane floaters and midrange turnarounds/quasi fades, kind of have to do that when you are my height. I usually snowball people by popping lots of jumpers, then when they're conditioned to that start blowing by them. My main concern is endurance, I smoke cigarettes and I'm going to have do some heavy wind sprints and poo poo to get back in shape, I have two weeks.

BIZORT
Jan 24, 2003



Brolander posted:

I have a school alumni tournament at the end of the month. Been a while since I balled, so I'm sort of nervous. My mechanics are still pretty good, my bread and butter is across the lane floaters and midrange turnarounds/quasi fades, kind of have to do that when you are my height. I usually snowball people by popping lots of jumpers, then when they're conditioned to that start blowing by them. My main concern is endurance, I smoke cigarettes and I'm going to have do some heavy wind sprints and poo poo to get back in shape, I have two weeks.

All of your shots are the type that you have to keep up with if you want to make them. Runners and fadeaways are some of the hardest shots you can take

sc0tty
Jan 8, 2005

too kewell for school..

Ironman posted:

I'd advise you stay away from most Jordan brand shoes (the pro player models excepting) for that reason, as well. They're heavy, and thick soled which gives a sort of walking-on-air feeling. I was out of any sort of exercise for a month when I turned my ankle in them.

I rolled my ankle and couldn't play ball for like 6 months, even though at the time it felt okay and I could walk on it fine. Rolling ankles is the worst and I hate it.

My favourite shoes were a pair of Jordan 20's. I'm a big fat guy so I find the thick soles save my knees from exploding. The shoes had a lace cover though that would velcro over, and it literally wore out after like 3 weeks. I just ended up taping it down with some tape before the games. They looked completely ghetto but they were my favorite. I play in some Scottie Pippen I's now because they are massive and have a lot of ankle protection.

For new players the best thing is definitely to work on your fitness. Just practice jumping over and over again until you get your fitness up. It's always funny seeing the game slowly die as people get more and more tired.

The one true heezy
Mar 23, 2004


the hypermax or hyperdunks are great feeling lightweight shoes that wont break the bank

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008



I keep seeing posts about 'just focus on rebounding,' but how the heck do I learn to get position over people 6+ inches taller than me? I can do it when I crash in and and not man up on someone, but when I'm playing defense low, it seems like there's nothing I can do since tall dudes can just reach over me even when my body is on theirs.

Vladimir Putin
Mar 17, 2007
Pardon me sir, would you like to have some Polonium ?

mastershakeman posted:

I keep seeing posts about 'just focus on rebounding,' but how the heck do I learn to get position over people 6+ inches taller than me? I can do it when I crash in and and not man up on someone, but when I'm playing defense low, it seems like there's nothing I can do since tall dudes can just reach over me even when my body is on theirs.

If I were playing people 6+ inches taller than me, I would probably move away from the basket area and focus my play on more "guard"-like things.

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


Probably the best advantage a short dude can have is to be quick and agile. Concentrate on JJ Barea things if you want to improve. Six inches is a lot to overcome in rebounding.

Jack's Flow
Jun 6, 2003

What happen then, Mr Bones?
if be you cares to say.


It works for me, but maybe it is a stupid tip in general: learn to tip rebounds to yourself. I'm a short dude with average hops, but I can snatch a lot of rebounds by tipping them out of the hands of the bigger dudes (if they go up with just one hand, they just gave up their height advantage). You don't need to control the ball right away, a little controlled tip can go a long way to grabbing the rebound in a spot where no other player is around.

edit: I should probably clear this one up: 6 inches are a world to overcome, but for general rebounding or guys just two or three inches taller than you, tipping the ball is really useful.

Jack's Flow fucked around with this message at Mar 16, 2012 around 17:57

Vladimir Putin
Mar 17, 2007
Pardon me sir, would you like to have some Polonium ?

Jack's Flow posted:

It works for me, but maybe it is a stupid tip in general: learn to tip rebounds to yourself. I'm a short dude with average hops, but I can snatch a lot of rebounds by tipping them out of the hands of the bigger dudes (if they go up with just one hand, they just gave up their height advantage). You don't need to control the ball right away, a little controlled tip can go a long way to grabbing the rebound in a spot where no other player is around.

I think timing (jumping at the right moment) and position have a lot to do with it also. But a six inch difference is just killer. If I was playing somebody six inches shorter than myself, I would murder them on the boards no matter when I jumped or what position he was in. Unless he had the physique of a brick wall and just shoved me out of the way.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009


I rebound over people 6"+ shorter than me without even leaving my feet.

Vladimir Putin
Mar 17, 2007
Pardon me sir, would you like to have some Polonium ?

rscott posted:

I rebound over people 6"+ shorter than me without even leaving my feet.

I would have a field day in all aspects of the game if playing somebody 6" shorter than me. Posting up, I wouldn't even have to put in any effort. I would take jumpers from anywhere on the court since I wouldn't even be afraid you could block my shot. On defense, I'd probably block everything.

I would be *very* afraid of the following: 1.) If you had skills and can dribble, you could probably blow by me and make me look stupid. I'm assuming here that you are fast. 2.) If you established that you had skills and could get by me, and started taking me out way past the basket. I'd have to give you space to respect your drive and you could start hitting jumpers all day on me.

Ironman
Jun 19, 2001
If you see this text that means I'm not working.

I agree that 6 inches may be too much to overcome with technique, but what you could try to do is work on your leg strength. I've found that since I started doing heavy back squats about 2 years ago I can move people around pretty easy by backing into them. It's the Barkley school of basketball, son.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

stephelopholus posted:

"Yo man, I'm from Portland. I will gently caress you up." This was a real quote from the argument that lead to the fight. Realize we are playing at a gym 15 minutes away from downtown Portland, and i would guess at least 50% of the people there were from Portland. And Portland is the least intimidating city on the planet. Nothing about Portland or the people are scary.

As someone from Portland, this owns so hard.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009


I went into today's game with the intention of being a pass first big man and holy poo poo does it ever work out well. The only other guy over 6 feet was on the other team and while he's more athletic than me he has quite possibly negative basketball IQ. Never passes the ball (or when he does he telegraphs the pass so obviously that you can step right out in front of it), every jump shot he takes is a fade away, ridiculously easy to force into a turnover with a double, etc. He plays hard though and crashes the board for rebounds so we don't get too mad at him, but its always a chore to play with him on your team.

So I would just get the ball in the high post, back him down for a couple of dribbles, wait for the double to come, pass over it to the open man for an easy layup/close jumper. We scored 6 straight points like this to win the game easily.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008



Ironman posted:

I agree that 6 inches may be too much to overcome with technique, but what you could try to do is work on your leg strength. I've found that since I started doing heavy back squats about 2 years ago I can move people around pretty easy by backing into them. It's the Barkley school of basketball, son.

Yea this is what I'd hoped to do because I'm significantly stronger than my friends, but even if I back then underneath the basket they can block me easily since I can't Dream Shake. Sounds like I'm just going to work jumpers.

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008

Arbeit macht fit

This may be kind of weird, but does anyone else have a few things they like to put on when they play seriously? Whenever I play against good people, a bunch of friends I haven't seen in a while, or if I know I'm going to play in a "serious" game, I like to wear this blue pair of basketball socks I have. I also have two shirts that I noticed I tend to shoot well in so I like to wear either or as well.

Basketball is alot more mental for me than football or baseball and it helps. Do other people do this too?

Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006


mastershakeman posted:

I keep seeing posts about 'just focus on rebounding,' but how the heck do I learn to get position over people 6+ inches taller than me? I can do it when I crash in and and not man up on someone, but when I'm playing defense low, it seems like there's nothing I can do since tall dudes can just reach over me even when my body is on theirs.

Timing your jump to be a fraction of a second later in order to tip the ball out of their hands has been said and is good advice. The other thing is to learn the typical rebounds of a shooter and his shots; some guys will shoot long from the top of the key and consistently clank it off the front of the rim or they'll hit glass and bounce it off the rim high and long when they take a mid-range from the baseline, etc. In general looking at the arc of the shot, flat/high, helps a lot. Barkley was a genius at these things.

BIZORT
Jan 24, 2003



Waroduce posted:

This may be kind of weird, but does anyone else have a few things they like to put on when they play seriously? Whenever I play against good people, a bunch of friends I haven't seen in a while, or if I know I'm going to play in a "serious" game, I like to wear this blue pair of basketball socks I have. I also have two shirts that I noticed I tend to shoot well in so I like to wear either or as well.

Basketball is alot more mental for me than football or baseball and it helps. Do other people do this too?

I'm pretty superstitious with my league games. If I have a good game in one pair of underwear then I'll keep wearing them. With pickup games, though, I instantly forget the results as soon as I leave the court

Regnevelc
Jan 12, 2003

I'M A GROWN ASS MAN!

Waroduce posted:

This may be kind of weird, but does anyone else have a few things they like to put on when they play seriously? Whenever I play against good people, a bunch of friends I haven't seen in a while, or if I know I'm going to play in a "serious" game, I like to wear this blue pair of basketball socks I have. I also have two shirts that I noticed I tend to shoot well in so I like to wear either or as well.

Basketball is alot more mental for me than football or baseball and it helps. Do other people do this too?

My ADIDAS T-Mac 2's.

http://www.nikebrandstore.com/tracy...white-blue.html

God drat those shoes own.

Regnevelc fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2012 around 11:47

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Boosh!
Apr 12, 2002



It never occurred to me until recently when I whipped out some retro Jordans to play in the gym: Ball sneakers have come a long way in terms of weight, support, comfort and grip. Flat soles killed my feet.

Boosh! fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2012 around 14:32

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