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Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

cisneros posted:

Pickup homework: Learn this move http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGqZnBmMkuc and use it every time you can.

This is the only basketball move that has ever just completely blown my mind. No matter how many times I see it I can't figure out how it happens. Full-speed, replay, slow-motion, repeated, following the steps, I cannot figure out what the gently caress is going on.

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Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

cisneros posted:

Only an inch? You should be able to get over that easily(unless you're like 5'5" with Kwame hands or something).

God, Kwame hands. I'm 6 feet even, above-average athletically, with a solid mid-range shot, solid 3 point shot, and a pretty decent post game if I can get in there, but my Kwame hands are the bane of me. I literally have the smallest hands of anyone I've ever met. That's including girls. They are tiny. So while I've learned to compensate and can handle the ball well just practicing by myself, put the slightest amount of body on me in a game and it's almost guaranteed I'm going to lose it. This all means that while I technically have the speed, vision, and competency to drive well, unless I've got a wide open route (like, all the defenders are out on the arc for some reason), it isn't going to happen and I won't even bother trying it. Same with rebounding, catching a pass on the move, etc.

That would be fine except the college rec center where I play is packed with college athletes, and I'm almost always the shortest, smallest, fastest dude on my team which means I pretty regularly end up running point to start the game. It's legitimately embarrassing, and the looks on people's faces when I point out my hands and we compare is a look of deep heartfelt sympathy that I've become extremely familiar with. The amount of time I spend as a spot-up guy while some gigantic 300 lb 6'5 linebacker with no feel for the position is forced to run point because he can actually hold onto the ball kills me.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

spamman posted:

Here's a crudely drawn picture of what I was trying to say:



And here's a really good nbaplaybook article from Pruiti, showing this a lot better using John Wall as an example.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/10/15/is-john-wall-using-screens-any-better/#more-6157

Come on, at least mark that picture NWS or something.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:

Picturing one of those "What I think I look like when I hoop/What I actually look like".

I experienced this upon watching my shooting motion in front of a mirror for the first time after someone commented on it. I look like a fool and have much worse form that I thought; but I spent a night messing with it and just got frustrated, so I figure I'll stick with what works (kind of)

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

The best is when the guy who calls point also loves barking instructions and helpful criticisms at everyone on the team, yet never ever passes it and insists on going 1 on 5 while everyone else stands around. Then gets mad when people stop hustling to grab his 500th bricked shot, or stop even bothering to get open since everyone knows the most he'll do is use you as an extremely unconvincing pass fake before trying another wild drive.

Then tries to provide everyone with helpful lectures after your team loses about what they could've done better. I've played with like 3 of these guys in the past week and I'm convinced someone is going to kill them.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

americanzero4128 posted:

Guys, I need some help. I play post with the pickup group I play with because I am 6' which is close to the tallest and I'm 200 lbs from weight lifting (not just eating Cheetoes and drink Mountain Dew), and I have a terrible, god awful, ugly outside shot from anything farther than six feet. I have a pretty good pump fake that I use to get my guy off his feet and then pivot to get an easy layup, but I have a really bad problem with traveling. I don't even know I am doing it, but I get called for it a couple times every game. Is there some big man travel move that I don't know about but am doing? I've asked the people I'm playing with and all I get is a "You traveled dude, how do you not see that" or "Stop shuffling your feet" or something like that but I don't do it on purpose or know I am doing it, so it's pretty worthless.

Edit - mrpurplecat, I play in the NW burbs (Park Ridge) if you are interested in joining us for outdoor games (weather permitting).

It's possible you're sliding your pivot foot after picking up your dribble. It's also just as possible they don't know what a travel is, or they do and they're calling it because they're being a bitch and can't stop you otherwise.

I'd recommend getting out there alone and trying to visualize someone defending you, and running through the motions of your post moves while paying special attention to what your feet are doing. Try and do it exactly like you do during a game, or maybe get a friend to come and defend you while watching your feet. See if you're traveling, or if they're just assholes. If it's the latter, post them up and knock their rear end down, then probably find new people to play with.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Declan MacManus posted:

If you aren't practicing the Dream Shake instead of fundamentals, I don't even want to know you

I practice pretty much nothing but baseline shimmy shake turnaround fadeaways

My inability to consistently hit jumpers from anywhere else is a source of personal shame, but nobody notices because if I can hit that shot, obviously I could hit it from anywhere else too

Apply Kobe logic to your everyday pick-up game

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

crm posted:

Last night, my league team lost our championship on a one handed, 28' 3 to beat the buzzer.

I am sad.

Threes are my downfall in one on one games. I'll dominate and run up a huge lead, and shut the guy down from getting anything mid-range or at the rack, then I just slack off and basically let him shoot 3s and grab his misses over and over. I have no idea why I do it, it's a mental thing. Every time I think "ok, close it out, don't feel bad this time and let them shoot 3s" and by the time I'm up 10 or something, there I am standing off of him just letting him shoot his way back into it.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

jimcunningham posted:

Watch Olajuwon tapes.

This isn't a bad idea. Growing I was bigger than the other kids, but not that fast. Barkley was my favorite player, and I basically picked up a complex post game by obsessively watching him and Olajuwon in the 90s. I topped out at 5'11, but still spend a lot of time in the post as a little guy since it's how I grew up playing, and the post game I learned basically entirely from mimicking Hakeem spins and Barkley face up moves and physicality surprises the poo poo out of guys guarding me who're usually much bigger.

So yeah, it sounds silly, but get on Youtube and watch a shitload of Olajuwon videos, break them down, visualize them, and mimick them in games until you can use them consistently. With your size, you'll dominate pickup games, even if you aren't that fast or your handle is bad.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Boosh! posted:

I believe "watch Dream tape" was suggested in jest. That was you growing up though as opposed to a grown man at 6'7 who doesn't play; he might tip over trying to do a dream shake. I'd aim lower for starters. Work on putting the ball in the hole from the paint, throw in a dropstep or 2 and watch some entry level post game vids.

Oh, well yeah. I was mostly just responding to the Olajuwon thing, because it does sound absurd (watch Magic pass) but it isn't a bad reference point. Starting from nothing he just needs to work on like, dribbling, and releasing it so it goes in the basket, and also coming to terms with the knowledge that he is going to be real bad and having to be productive in thankless ways for a long while.

I actually think "watch a lot of basketball" in general is an underrated part of learning to play on the most basic level of pickup. There's a big gap from working on your fundamentals alone to applying them in a game, and knowing the ways you can contribute without the ball while you adapt to the competition significantly eases the pain of feeling like a stiff.

Plus guys'll pick you more, and you get more chances and leeway to try things that might otherwise leave you watching from the bench.

Learn little stuff like boxing out, getting good position, using passing lanes, setting screens, and just knowing your role and where to stand. Then you work on the scoring and using your size in other ways that require more repetition

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

cisneros posted:

Those old Pistol Pete tapes helped me to understand the mechanics of a jumpshot back in the day, and he must have know what he was talking about, he shoot 3s when such thing didn't exist and died playing pickup.

Well, I shoot like I'm shadowboxing and play pickup all the time and I'm still alive so who are you going to listen to, me or some dead guy? :smug:

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

I got roped into a pick-up game at my local church the other day with a bunch of HS freshmen.

I know they're young, but for God's sake, when you've been shooting pull-up 3s on every single possession, and not one has come even remotely close to going in, don't you even begin to consider that maybe you can't shoot 3s and should pass the ball to one of your teammates, so at least more people can try their hand at wildly off-target pull-up 3s?

There was one dude there who looked to be over 20, on the other team, and every time one of the kids on my team pulled up and clanked a jumper in transition before anyone else even got back he'd just grab the board, see the look of torment and despair in my eyes, and just frown a little and give me a "yeah, I know" look

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Omnikin posted:

Set a pick while simultaneously yelling "DRIVE!"? At that age if one of them makes a nice move to the basket and scores they're all likely to try to one-up each other which could help open their game (and yours!)

Tried. None of them had any intention of getting anywhere near the basket. Screens and any attempts to help open a lane for them was met with them standing there dribbling as though I were a phantom, then launching a contested jumper over mine and the defenders' heads. I'm not sure they even know what I wanted them to do.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Barack has got some serious vertical for an old dude

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

I'm best offensively in the post, but I rarely get a chance to use it in games bigger than 3-on-3 at my gym, if that. If it's more than that it seems like nobody has any idea how to space the floor and the floor is so crowded you're basically double-teamed with the ball anywhere inside the line, or every ball-handler just wants to slash wildly to the basket and there's nothing to do but set picks and try to clear the lane.

The worst is when everybody on the team is working in synergy, working to good shots, moving the ball, but there's one guy who doesn't get it and has to dribble around for five seconds before he can shoot. So he ends up wide open over and over, gets the pass with plenty of time to shoot, but blows it and ends up smothered because he's got to get in his mandatory between the legs dribble and series of head fakes before launching a contested shot

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Disharmony posted:

I'm on the market for a new shoe since my old one ends up burning pretty fast after a few trips up and down the court, which I guess is a ventilation issue. I primarily play in the backcourt and love to play pesky defense or press full court.

Based on research, I narrowed down my choices to the Hyperchaos or Hyperfuse 2012 which are both around $121 and the Under Armour Micro G Torch at $158 (that's the price in my country). Which of the three is better and are there better options? Obviously I can't really get a proper feel out of these things by just wearing them and walking around the store so I'd like to get input from you guys.

I've never had any good experiences with Under Armour basketball shoes. They're not horrible, just really mediocre for the prices which usually can get you a higher end Nike.

Personally I play in KDV's (recently upgraded from a pair of KDIV's) and it's the best basketball shoe I've ever put on my feet. Sticky, great balance, great ankle support, and the fit/weight is out of this world. The first couple wears are a little iffy during the break-in period, but after that it sort of molds to your foot. They're like wearing treaded-socks now, it's great.

Outside of the KD's, I've played in some Wades (the last ones from Jordan) and they were pretty good for the price I got them at. Kind of heavy, though. Most Jordans tend to feel a little heavy (to me, anyway) though, even the ones designed for quick guards.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

PantsFreeZone posted:

This is very true. Pacing is very important. So is developing that old man game. Use your rear end more, like Andre Miller.

Fun story: I'm in my mid 30s and I was out playing the other day here in Chicago at my usual court where I know all the angles and how that one bent rim is angled so you have to add more arc or it will catch the front iron, when I was invited to run 5 on 5. I usually run 3 on 3 half court at most because I have no left MCL and a really bad right ankle from years of leg injuries, but I thought what the hell. So I hit two one legged Dirk 3s from the top of the key and suddenly the next possession down the younger, healthier, way more athletic guy who was guarding me (and who I was basically standing next to when on defense and moving as little as possible) decides to start face guarding me as I come across half court. I felt pride and hilarity all at the same time. Until after the game ended (we won, yay) when I was so gassed I had to go puke behind the restrooms for 10 minutes.

Yeah, I'm 22 and of above average athleticism compared to 90% of the people that play at my gym, and my game is still almost completely dependent on my rear end. I'm lucky there's no Charles Barkley rule in pick-up ball.

I'm hoping that playing this way balances out how often I play pick-up, and will keep me in playing shape for a long time. I don't even know how I'd get injured the way I play, other than landing wrong after grabbing a rebound. It's crazy, there are guys who I used to play with (that are my age or thereabouts) at the college courts who used to play circles around me, but are now so hobbled by injuries by senior year that they don't even seem like the same guy I used to play with. I just keep my fingers crossed.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

BIZORT posted:

If you're not the one defending him then keep in mind the guys who constantly post up are lovely ball handlers and don't focus on anything going on in the game except themselves once they get the ball. They're usually easy to steal the ball from. And you can double to him if you don't think your guy can shoot or you're quick enough to get back. Doubling is kind of frowned upon in pickup games unless a play completely breaks down, though. If post up superstar is backing his man down and his back is to you, just run over and poke it away. They're usually very methodical and have distinct patterns in how they do what they do

Yeeeeep. This is it exactly. I'm aforementioned post-up superstar, and I'll score all day if nobody thinks to double. But as soon as somebody gets the bright idea to just come poke the ball away from me from my blind spot, I'll almost never see them coming unless they're clumsy as gently caress.

So yeah, just do this. If your man is close enough and the dude has got his man on his back and is clearly distracted, slip around and strip him. Most people really don't have great court vision to see doubles coming in general, much less us dudes who pretty much just have developed a post-game to disguise our complete lack of ball-handling skills.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Mr. Cool Ice posted:

I was taught to do this as a little kid and it's too late to stop now. Never had anyone get mad about it. Why would they? It's like calling out a pick, gotta let your team know there's a rebound coming.

I think he's taking issue with dudes yelling "short"/lunging/yelling at you to psyche you out as you release your shot, not calling it once it's on its course. Obviously its fine once its on its way and you can actually make a call on it for your teammates, but guys doing it when you release are just being obnoxious.

I wouldn't bitch about it in game or anything, but it does annoy me and I will be more likely to hit the guy with a particularly hard pick on defense/try to embarrass him the next trip down if I get the chance.

I just feel like you should guard your man straight up, even trash talk a little if you're into that, but yelling poo poo when a guy puts his shot up irks me as pretty weak

Edit: Oh, he said "shot." Well, point stands

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Faltese Malkin posted:

This reminded me: I wish I could play with a team in pick up where a shot didn't go up within the first 8 seconds of a possession. Usually it's 3-4 passes at most and then a shot goes up.

Wow, that many passes? I want to play with you guys

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

mynameisjohn posted:

calling someone on a carry?

Setting a solid pick.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Intruder posted:

Nothing feels worse than beating a guy then blowing the layup

Oh god, yeah. I played pickup on a street court in Thailand on a school trip in college, against some local guys. Really good ball-handlers (I'm not, at all). I get the guy isolated at the top of the key, and decide for whatever reason I'm going to try and do that Kevin Durant double-crossover thing, with the big sweeping dribble and poo poo. This typically results in my getting the ball stolen or the guy not biting because I'm a lovely slow ball-handler.

So I cross the guy, and it actually works. I break his ankles so hard he lands firmly on his rear end as I go blowing past him. I've got a clear line to the rim, and I pick-up my dribble still kind of overwhelmed I actually broke a guy's ankles. My spirit is soaring. Unfortunately, so is the ball as I airball the wide-open layup over the rim.

The group of Thai schoolchildren watching all laugh.

Probably a low point in my pickup career.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

dudemanbudguy posted:

I would love for someone to set a screen for me. Unfortunately, I doubt I could convince anyone to take that kind of involvement. Hell, I'd kill just to have a pick set for me once in a while and play with someone that knows when to roll to the basket. Easiest points in pick up basketball.

It's always a nice feeling of camaraderie when you're playing a pickup game with strangers and you set a solid pick for the ballhandler, who it turns out not only knows how to use a pick and can convert on it, but is vocally psyched at the discovery someone else on his team knows how to set a pick and is willing to actually do it for him. That moment when you suddenly develop that two-man game with a stranger mid-game is fantastic.

I like to slip screens and roll into the paint, but honestly if I've got a good slasher who knows how to get to the rim off just a simple strong pick from me, I'm more than happy to just set him up all day. It's white as gently caress but that's what basketball is all about.

That and dunking, but again, white as gently caress.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Creepy Goat posted:

I should have probably guessed when I saw the sole, but haven't picked up a ball in like 5 years so I assumed the sports guy would know what he was talking about.

As a short guy (5'8") would I just be better off in lows? Something like the Nike KD VIs, or super lightweight like Zoom Hyperrevs?
I played a bunch of outdoor 1v1 in Roshe Runs and despite not being at all supportive around the foot my ankles felt fine.

I haven't played in the KD VIs yet, but the Vs are my shoe of choice (though they're a high top) and I wore my IVs until the soles lost their tread, and those were low-tops. I've heard nothing but good things about the VIs as well, so I'd say they're a good bet.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Doltos posted:

Yeah I ain't fuckin Jordan though. I have massive hands and can palm the ball but not like, keep it in my palm while doing the fake. That's next level poo poo.

Yeah, that takes more than big hands. You've got to have an incredible and specific kind of dexterity to just wave the ball around like that. There's a reason you don't see hardly any NBA players do it too.

The guy who commented on how knowing where to keep the ball can compensate for even the weakest dribble is totally right. I self-admittedly have a horrible handle, you won't find me crossing anyone over or doing any sort of strong dribble moves. I'm working on it, but I just never developed the feel for it. But I'll almost never be forced to pick up my dribble, or turn it over that way. If you practice the fundamentals and can read the defender, it's really not hard to just keep your weak-rear end dribble away from his hands and use your body to get where you want to go.

The flip side of that is it limits what you can do (hence the working to improve), but there's definitely ways to not be a complete liability handling the ball on the perimeter even if your dribbling is kind of poo poo.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

rscott posted:

oh my god the low pass thing is my biggest gripe ever because I have a really hosed up Mike Miller-esque back and then I get these passes from 5'2" guys that are at my loving knees and of course it either gets past me or someone steals it because holy poo poo I am 6'4" at least get that poo poo up to my waist level. I have been playing with some of these people for four years and they still do it. If I complain enough about it then they start winging it like 8 feet in the air and then it's still my fault that I can't get all of those passes either since some rear end in a top hat is normally got their forearm in my back and is pushing me away from the pass. What ever happened to passing to someone's strong hand or their center of body mass?

Some people just really never learned to throw an entry pass to someone posted up. I've seen guys who are otherwise really good passers stop and just look baffled before tossing me some weak bounce-pass poo poo that gets picked off.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Doltos posted:

What kind of grown rear end man calls a timeout in pickup basketball? That only happens when someone cracks their head open on the court.

I had to the other day for like the first time in my life because I'm out of shape as gently caress and was about to puke

I'll take the shame of calling time for hypothetical puke over literally throwing up on the court

But yeah calling timeout for basketball reasons like getting trapped or whatever is kind of lame

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

laz0rbeak posted:

I didn't throw any punches, but about a year and a half ago I was on a court with a really sketchy white dude with dreads. He was getting mad at the 16-17 year old kid guarding him too tight, and after the two did a little trash-talking, he comes down with the ball and when the kid goes to guard him, he just sucker-punched him. I got between them, and this little poo poo takes a few swings at me like I'm coming at him, instead of, you know, separating him from the teenager he just punched. I ended up biting through my lip and getting a few stitches, along with a black eye, and was a groomsmen in a wedding that weekend looking like Frankenstein's monster. Of course the dude took off immediately, and the gym's only listed address for the guy was out of state, so even though I pressed charges, nothing ever happened.

Edit: here's a pic from the wedding, I think 3-4 days later:



All three of these men look like they may have been recently punched in the face I'll need some clarification

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Doltos posted:

I had that dude yesterday. Trash talker who ran the other team off the court and got pissed because I wouldn't let him shoot easy threes on the right side of the arch when my team faced him. After the first missed shot he told me he'd sink one right in my face if I tried that again.

Catches the ball in front of the arch, dribbles backwards like J.R., said "watch" to me as he shot it, and I watched it hit the top of the backboard and dribble off into the trees.

I always find as soon as a shooter starts saying poo poo like "watch this" or "come here" I should just give him plenty of room and let him launch it, because he will almost never hit that poo poo. Responding to dude's dumb trash talk with condescension is the best way to gently caress with him

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

JRizzle posted:

If there's a Nike outlet anywhere near you and you care about having ~cool looking shoes~, you can find some for pretty cheap there. Or Amazon like Bizort said.

I spent too much money on


They're kind of annoying to lace up because the strap gets in the way, but man are they comfortable. I tried on some KDs when I was getting them and I have no idea how anyone wears them to play basketball. They feel so weird.

I haven't tried the KD VIs but the Vs are my regular game shoe. The KDs feel weird at first because they have some weird adaptive poo poo that molds to your foot. After a couple of times playing in them they feel like socks with ankle support and tread or something, it's great. I assume the new ones are the same way but I get too nervous about turning my ankle to go all in on low-tops.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Intruder posted:

You don't have to worry about ankle injuries if you play with a total lack of athleticism, guys. That's my secret

I feel like that's when you're most prone to ankle injuries, but I feel you regardless

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

I've never rolled my ankle on offense, but I've rolled it plenty of times on defense and crashing the glass.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

The B_36 posted:

I've only ever rolled my ankles when on offense, usually coming down from a layup attempt.

Maybe you should get better at defense so that your man isn't constantly breaking your ankles with sick crossovers? hth

Yeah and maybe after that I'll perfect my free throw line dunk

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

iamsosmrt posted:

Yeah I didn't get as upset as you might think since I had no reason to believe there was anything malicious behind it. Football guys tend to be pretty wild. But you're right, hit me once, accidents happen. Once patterns develop, you have to channel your inner Oakley and make sure it doesn't happen again.

As far as a question for practical advice, I typically play with a mix of guys from 21-40 (plus my boss who's a very fit 64). The mid 30 and 40 year-olds are attorneys who tend to play rather physical and relatively dirty defense. Grabs, elbows, shoulder checks, shoving their way through legal screens and my biggest bane--hacking in on-the-ball defense. I've never been the steadiest ball handler, and I generally don't like calling ticky tack fouls. Whenever these guys stick me, they tend to get up in my face, handcheck, and slap at the ball. There tends to be a good amount of physical contact they initiate. Flustered, I often respond by either passing the ball off pretty quick, rushing a shot, or turning it over altogether.

I feel like my only resort is to adjust to old-guy basketball, of which I'm not a big fan. What should I do? Call fouls, engage in physical warfare, or abstain from handling the ball altogether?

Work on your ball handling, learn to use your body and youthful athleticism to punish them for playing so aggressive. I find that dudes that play that way in pickup are usually overcompensating for being pretty deficient in other parts of their game, and they get discouraged if you just bull your way through them and score anyway.

Just don't get flustered and don't let them get under your skin, use your body and off arm to shield your dribble and slap them away if they try to reach and grab. Be patient and deliberate in your motions and they won't be that effective.

If you don't think you can adjust I guess you could try just playing off the ball and limiting yourself to spot-up/cutting on offense, but I know I'd rather make them bend to my style of play than the other way around

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

danucleus posted:

Is this actually legal to do? If it is then I've been missing this important piece of defense in my arsenal.

I mean it's totally not at all, but if the defender is hand-checking or hacking the poo poo out of you then it's fair game in my mind. It's pickup, it's not like there's a ref who's missing calls on the other guy but will whistle you. If they bitch about it, then they can learn to play defense or man up

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

Tips are awful. If anybody's even reasonably athletic the game ends up going on forever, and it just turns into a shooting drill since nobody's playing defense.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

BIZORT posted:

If I'm playing 21 one on one then I play tips since it's just the two of you. Otherwise I don't like playing tips since it rewards the fat guy that doesn't like to do anything but lay under the basket, as everyone has said. People play really lazy defense and will only guard threes or drives to the basket. My whole game revolved around garbage points near the bucket or 15 footers so I'd just calmly knock down free throw jumpers until I won. And I play 21 one on one because I am lazy and you get more breaks if you play that way.

I was not aware that people above elementary school age still played knockout

Knockout happens where I play (college rec center) seemingly only when a group of dudes who don't ever play pickup or basketball at all wander in to the gym, get wrecked in one game of pickup, then start proposing all sorts of weird schoolyard games everyone should play instead that they promise are "really really cool" if you'll just let them explain the rules. Meanwhile everyone looks at each other in shared understanding that this is just a big excuse for these guys to not have to play real sports

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Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006

yeah I've never seen a carpeted basketball court in my life so I don't even know what that would be like

every church I've been to that had a basketball court had an actual wood court so shrug

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