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Bad Munki posted:All righty. I really have no idea what the soil is like, I'll have to take a shovel out there when I move in at the end of the month. For the compost-cardboard-compost-wood chips thing, would that just be going straight on top of the grass, or...? I swear I heard at some point in my past that putting soil down directly on grass turns the grass into some sort of waxy layer that traps water and basically reduces drainage to zero. I've never heard of that happening. Water will probably sheet off of the cardboard for a while until it starts to break down. The bottom most layer under the cardboard is composted manure which is different from compost. It's high in nitrogen and will kickstart the soil microbes to start breaking down the layer of sod.
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| # ? May 21, 2012 20:23 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 06:56 |
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Also, worms really love damp cardboard, and will aerate the soil by coming up and down to munch on it. As the grass starts to rot down there the worms will burrow through it and maybe eat it too.
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| # ? May 21, 2012 20:29 |
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Bad Munki posted:Durr, I guess that would be relevant, wouldn't it? Erie, PA, so a few miles from the lake shore. Lots of vineyards in the area. My yard is all nice and open and south-facing, except at the very south end where it's up against a forest, so I'll have shade back there if I need it. Drainage in the yard isn't awesome (although some culverts were installed recently) but it's not like it's a swamp, it's just that if it dumps a few inches one night, the yard might be a little soppy the next day. I can't imagine that hugely impacting planters, though. One thing I learned the hard way, is to set your planters up SO IT'S EASY TO loving MOW AROUND THEM!  I'm going to be moving my beds (and all the dirt from them) this fall, because I created a nightmarish labyrinth to mow around in my front yard.. 
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| # ? May 21, 2012 23:46 |
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Can someone talk to me about attractive ways to keep deer out of my garden? I think that while I'll love those woods back there, I may occasionally curse them when it comes to trying to keep vegetables.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 03:24 |
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Bad Munki posted:Can someone talk to me about attractive ways to keep deer out of my garden? I think that while I'll love those woods back there, I may occasionally curse them when it comes to trying to keep vegetables.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 05:10 |
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Bad Munki posted:Can someone talk to me about attractive ways to keep deer out of my garden? I think that while I'll love those woods back there, I may occasionally curse them when it comes to trying to keep vegetables. An attractive fence? The options are: dog, fence, hedge, or walls. Permaculturists would go with the hedge made up of things deer like to eat on the outside and things people like to eat on the inside but it would take time to grow and maintain. The quickest fence is probably sinking some 4x4 posts and stapling up deer netting/fencing, usually a 1 inch square black plastic mesh that isn't too bad to look at. Or you could build a more traditional wood fence and then plant something to grow on it, cover it and make it more attractive.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 05:11 |
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coyo7e posted:What do you consider 'attractive'? Or more succinctly, what do you consider 'unnattractive'? At the far "un" end of the attractive fence spectrum would be chicken wire on stakes in the ground. At the top end would probably be something like this. I like the hedge idea, though, I could start something this year. If I were to build some sort of proper fence, though, how tall would I need to make it?
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| # ? May 22, 2012 14:50 |
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Speaking of deer, one walked over my deer netting last night, left hoof holes in my garden, mowed down a bunch of my amazing strawberries and trampled my carrots.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 15:02 |
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Wrong button
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| # ? May 22, 2012 15:02 |
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Bad Munki posted:At the far "un" end of the attractive fence spectrum would be chicken wire on stakes in the ground. At the top end would probably be something like this. I like the hedge idea, though, I could start something this year. 8 feet if you can, though most cities don't allow higher than 6.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 15:31 |
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Deer are utter bastards and they can and will jump over fences 8-10 feet tall, so I would suggest curtailing your expectations of keeping them out with a simple fence. Maybe adding lattice to the top of the fence for extra height, would be a way to sidestep the height code issue.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 16:32 |
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I'm thinking an angled plexiglass wall extending another ten feet up from the top of the fence so that they try to jump it, but then just miserably slide back off. Throw in a webcam and we have internet gold.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 16:38 |
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One thing is to never let them get acclimated to dining in your garden in the first place. If they gorge on your delicious veggies and fruits one year, and next year there's an 8 foot fence in the way then of course they're going to jump it. There are a few other things I've heard of working. One is making the fence solid. They don't like jumping stuff if they can't see where/what they'll land on. Planting stuff along the fence that they would have to land on like shrubs would be an option with a non-solid fence. Another idea is using two fences 3 feet apart. Apparently they don't like being stuck between them.
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| # ? May 22, 2012 18:50 |
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Well I made it into our new house last Thursday and have started sprucing things up on the vegetation front. I have yet to put in any planters for vegetables and such, but some new mulch and a couple hanging baskets are a nice start. Found an amazing plant outlet/garden supply place just a couple miles from our house, it was at least a couple of acres of greenhouses with every kind of plant we could imagine, as well as a good deal of outdoor space for even more stuff. We just got a couple baskets for now.   Bulk aged bark mulch for $18 for a half yard, so I had them dump some of that in my pickup. That was enough to do the planter off the patio, and the little one by the front steps. I'll need probably two more loads for the planters at each end of the house as well as the big one out front.   And just as a bonus, when we showed up, we found these gorgeous flowers growing in the patio planter. The flowers are easily 6" across and the plants are about waist high.  Next up: mulch the rest of the planters, put in a few more flowers, trim back some of the bushes, and maybe then I can get some planter boxes down.  e: Oh, and maybe not completely relevant here, but I was asking about it: the lawn definitely isn't bad, although it could still use some more focused attention, so I went ahead and fertilized the entire thing. Here's how it looks now, pre-fertilizer. We'll see how it looks in a month or two.  
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at Jun 7, 2012 around 02:52 |
| # ? Jun 7, 2012 02:35 |
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I totally need to take some good pictures at our friend's house where we have our community victory garden between us and two other couples (friends are the only ones with a house). Been getting so many strawberries and cucumbers already.  Unfortunately, all of our zucchini got squash moths or something, so we pulled them out last week. They were rotting at the base and little larvae were in the hollow stems. Oh well. We still have a compost pumpkin growing, though.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2012 16:17 |
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Is this a good place to ask about drip irrigation? I have two baskets (posted just a couple up) above my porch, as well as a big planter in front of the porch, and a smaller one nearby. I'd like to water them all automatically. So I'm thinking I can lay some soaker hose in the planters, and put in some drip lines above the baskets. Is there anything in particular I should keep in mind, or watch out for, or stuff like that? I've been looking at parts on amazon, but I don't want to order some stuff and then find out I'm doing it all horribly wrong. So far, I'm just looking at some regular garden hose to get the water closer to the beds, a splitter to hook up the soaker hose, and off the other side of that, an adapter to go to 1/4" tubing which will run up over my porch with a T above one basket, and then just run it out to the other basket and put a dip nozzle above each one. Then put the whole thing on a timer. Should I put the two halves of this (baskets vs. planters) on separate timers so that the pressure isn't all wonky or something? There's about 8' of elevation difference between the two, I know that can add up. I can draw a map/diagram or post some pictures if it'll help.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2012 18:46 |
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Okay, holy crap, I've got myself like a 4-year plan here. Fortunately, I've designed it to be phased in in a reasonably smooth manner. The overall plan as it currently stands is to take this:  And stick it in my backyard thusly:  The left building is an already-existant shed, the right building will be a greenhouse. Each horseshoe planter box will give me about 40 lineal feet of 3'-deep planter space. The center boxes will be for flowers. The park area in the middle will be made of pure zen. There are some specifics that I ignored for these, like the exact benches: in practice, I'd like some with some planter boxes built onto the backs for flowers. The bridge in the middle may become an arched trellis with morning glories or ivy or something. It's sort of a process, but I like where it's heading. I've already started surveying and putting down stakes and marking tape so I can actually walk through it before I actually do anything. Much easier to spot problems that way. Assuming I decide to go ahead with this, I'll start by putting in the square planters and using those this summer/fall, and during that time, work on getting the horseshoe planters up and running. Then in the early spring, I'll plant the trees, use the larger planters all season long, and work on the greenhouse during that time. Depending on how well that goes, either that fall or the following spring I'll get the fence and hedges in place, and then I can fiddle with the center area to my heart's content. Thoughts? e: On a side note, my grass is already starting to look much more lush and green. The neighboring lawns, which used to match mine (as seen in the above photo) are looking much more yellow by comparison.  ee: I gotta figure out what to do with that gravel pit. I want to remove it, but then I'll have a big hole in my lawn to deal with. :/ Bad Munki fucked around with this message at Jun 18, 2012 around 05:36 |
| # ? Jun 18, 2012 05:33 |
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My first impression is that seems like it's an awful long way from the house. Permaculture design uses a series of zones that roughly radiate out from the house in concentric circles. The location strikes me as more of a zone 4/5 area with little intervention whereas the design you've got is more zone 1/2. Are you going to have water available for irrigation out there? It seems to me like you'd be better off dealing with the gravel pit by putting your new design right on top of it, closer to the house and irrigation.
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 16:03 |
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I've thought about that, but the problem with putting it closer is that it really cuts the yard in half. It's a long, narrow lot, and so I've gotta work with that. The whole thing, as designed, would be about 20x50 on the inside. I fear that putting it in the middle of the yard would look really random and out of place. Instead, I'm aiming more for a "retreat," if I can. As far as irrigation goes, yeah, I intend to run an in-ground water line out there. There's already a sub-panel in the shed, and so I'm hoping (code-wise) I can come off of that for any power requirements I might have. I could, of course, take the whole thing and move it closer, even right up against our patio, although I'd be doing some heavy redesigning then to make it work better with the existing structure. Also, if I did that the shed would remain where it is and not be part of the design, and the greenhouse would not be there either. If I went that route, the greenhouse would probably just become a small lean-to up against the house itself.
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 16:12 |
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Am I understanding correctly that your photos are looking south? It seems like it's going to get a lot of shade from the trees at the end of the lot and then some of your planters would get more shade from the two sheds as well. I understand about breaking the yard in half and looking out of place. Personally, I hate unproductive grass so I'd be designing permaculture-style gardens for the whole thing with some annual veggie beds closer to the house.
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 16:49 |
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Bad Munki posted:The left building is an already-existant shed, the right building will be a greenhouse. Each horseshoe planter box will give me about 40 lineal feet of 3'-deep planter space. The center boxes will be for flowers. The park area in the middle will be made of pure zen. There are some specifics that I ignored for these, like the exact benches: in practice, I'd like some with some planter boxes built onto the backs for flowers. The bridge in the middle may become an arched trellis with morning glories or ivy or something. It's sort of a process, but I like where it's heading. I hope you realize how much dirt 40 lineal feet of 3' deep dirt (I'm assuming the beds are 3-4 feet wide as well,) is! You'll need to top those beds off every year or two, as well.
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 16:51 |
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Cpt.Wacky posted:Am I understanding correctly that your photos are looking south? It seems like it's going to get a lot of shade from the trees at the end of the lot and then some of your planters would get more shade from the two sheds as well. Not quite south, it's actually at an angle. I was sort of hoping that it'd be far enough off the trees to get sufficient light, but I've been questioning that the whole time. Because of the perspective, it's hard to tell how close it really is to the trees, but rest assured it's not as close as it looks. After thinking some more (since I am really just at the brainstorm-and-stake-it-out stage, so I can keep trying new options) I'm really liking the idea of moving it up against the patio, as a sort of extension of that area. I like the overall design, and by removing the buildings, I can move it pretty much anywhere I want to. If I bring it up against the house, it would become a little less wide, but I think I can work with that, maybe just by squishing the middle, or perhaps by making it a little deeper. Also, if I went the lean-to route up against the main house for the greenhouse, it'd get maximal sun year-round. coyo7e posted:I'd put off beginning to work on the water feature and bridge for as long as possible, it'll be a LOT easier to work in that area if you aren't trying to go around it constantly. When you finally do make your little pond, do NOT skimp on the liner and stuff, leaks can be a huge bane (aside from raccoons and poo poo eating your expensive koi) for home-built water features, and a huge hassle to deal with once everything's established and you've got a half-grand of fish and plants and stuff you've gotta move while you drain and patch.. Yeah, the water feature will come dead last, if at all. As for the dirt, yeah, it's a lot, my motto's always been "go big or go home," and this project is no exception to the rule. Money isn't really an issue, although the more I save now the more I can spend later.  I shouldn't have any trouble finding compost and manure and the like around here, and the soil out there now is actually pretty good, so I'm hoping I can take what's there, add a little TLC, and have a good start for next year.Thanks for all the input! This is a big project, so it's nice to get feedback before I get myself in a position I can't back out of. I'll try staking it out up against the patio this afternoon to see what it looks like, pictures will follow.
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 17:05 |
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Okay, I tried to integrate some of the advice here, and I really like where it went. Here's Garden Mark II: This time, it's right up against the patio, and I think with this layout, it feels like an extension of the patio itself, like we're not actually getting rid of anything, are are rather just making the patio into a garden. The trees at either side will cast some shade on the one side of the garden in the morning, and the other in the evening, but I think that could be used advantageously depending on what I decide to plant there. The planters along the long edge would get sun all day long. I like how this makes the garden feel like it really is a natural part of the patio. It makes for a very nice gateway area to the back yard, as well. Overall, it's a more modest design, but that's okay. Just means I didn't have as much room to play with in the middle, and that I'll spend less on fencing, hedges, and dirt. Also, running water/electric to this will be a total cinch, so that's nice. In the above drawing, I just made the back of the house a big slab, but here's a picture that shows what it actually looks like.  I need to mow my clover As you can see, the patio slab and half the trees are already there. There is a bed as well, although that would become the raised bed against the patio. My only concern is that whatever trees go in could eventually block the view from the deck, although at least in the time I'll be here, that' not likely to be an issue. Any thoughts on round 2?
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 20:23 |
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Bad Munki posted:Any thoughts on round 2? Please don't take this the wrong way, it's the same flaw I see in my own designs because I'm not a "creative" artsy type. It looks better, but very heavy on right angles. Obviously with raised beds you can only do so much. The trees don't need to be in their own raised beds. You could move the two trees to the corners near the house. Then have a Y-shaped path with one entrance near the stairs and the other near the lower sliding door. Raised beds in between the entrances. They could come together a little closer to the lawn side for a single exit to the lawn. Then a water feature could run under the bridges on each branch of the path and have a large area on either end to pool. Maybe a rock-mound running water feature right in the crotch of the Y I'm going to be designing a smaller space from scratch at the community garden and then my own entire yard at home so I'm very interested in the process.
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| # ? Jun 18, 2012 21:45 |
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The problem with making it too complicated on this one is that the space is just so darn limited. It's a lot easier to get charming swoops and curves when you've got more space to work with. In this case, it's just not available. That's partly why I liked the first design so much: the larger central space let me lay that out much more organically, while still keeping the planters themselves regular and utilitarian. The reason I have the trees in beds in both of these is that I want to also put flowers in there, lots and lots of flowers. I could do that on the ground, as well, but then the drainage of the yard becomes more of a concern. Unfortunately, putting the trees in the corners near the house won't work because at least one of them would be right up against the deck from day one, that just won't work for long. If I could literally do anything at all, I'd probably rip up the existing privacy trees, put beds where they are, and then put trees in behind the beds, widening the entire area by about 4 feet on each end. What I think I might do as one small alteration is move the entire thing away from the house about 3 feet so that the existing flower beds at the edge of the patio can remain as they are. Then there'll be the patio planter at ground level, and the garden planter raised above it a little, a sort of tiered effect. I agree re: a more organic feel, though, I'm just not sure how to fit it in. I'll probably play around with it on a whiteboard or something, see what I can come up with.
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| # ? Jun 19, 2012 00:21 |
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Here's something along the lines of your suggestion, but I dropped the symmetry just for fun. I didn't put in the fence and hedges on this drawing, they're still implied though. I really can't say how much I appreciate the feedback so far. This is a fairly major project, so getting it "right" (whatever that means in the end) is really important. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at Jun 19, 2012 around 02:28 |
| # ? Jun 19, 2012 02:25 |
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Yeah that's basically what I meant. I like preserving the existing bed as a border. Raised beds for trees makes sense if you're planting flowers in there. It looks like the existing path across that bed is already offset a little. You could just have a single path through the garden that went from where it is now to offset on the other side by roughly the same amount.  I guess it depends on which route you're more likely to use the most, stairs from the deck or sliding door. If it was the stairs then you could just flip the path around.
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| # ? Jun 19, 2012 17:06 |
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Cleaned off the patio and put in the BBQ last night. Emptied the 14" pot that's just been sitting out there and decided that we should get some plants. I did a very, very small amount of research and picked up a hosta along with some soil for the pot. I know poo poo from poo poo about gardening, but it's become my job to beautify the patio, and plants seem good considering the season. I've somehow kept a plant (looks like some type of succulent) alive for the past year, so how hard can it be?  I'll post some pictures later with the area I have to work with. But for now: my patio is East facing, and gets a decent amount of sun (assuming it isn't cloudy) in the morning with full shade by midday. There is another patio above us, but anything on or just inside the railing will get wet. There's a cover that wraps all the way around the railing, so anything on the patio will get little to no sun at all. I want to keep this simple in terms of plant choice. I chose a hosta to start because, according to my research, it's a low-to-no shade plant that needs watering about once a day and is fairly hardy. I'm looking for plants that will do good in direct sun, but don't need it constantly, for hanging & railing pots and mostly to all shade plants for behind the railing cover. I guess I need more pots and potting soil. Those aqua globes work, right? Depending on how this turns out, I might branch into herbs and small veggies. Guide me garden goons.
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| # ? Jun 20, 2012 19:53 |
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Pope Mobile posted:I want to keep this simple in terms of plant choice. I chose a hosta to start because, according to my research, it's a low-to-no shade plant that needs watering about once a day and is fairly hardy. Confused by this - hostas are great shade plants, and drat near the only things that will grow in my east facing front garden. They sound like a great foliage choice for shady parts of your patio. Ferns are also pretty and shade tolerant. You could probably get some tasty salad greens going too - arugula, spinach and mustard greens will all do fine with about 4 or 5 hours of sunlight. The Internet reckons you could try peas and beans too.
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| # ? Jun 20, 2012 20:03 |
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Sorry if it was confusing. I'm looking for good shade plants and good partial sun plants in Seattle weather. Hosta is just the first one I picked up. Thanks for the tips. I'm thinking greenery (hosta, fern, etc) on the patio floor with more colorful flowers in hanging or rail mounted pots.
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| # ? Jun 20, 2012 20:08 |
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We planted some cucumbers and watermelon about a month ago and we are yet to see anything sprout up. We planted just after last frost, but it hasn't been super warm until this week. I've gathered that cold soil can stunt these plants, but will they ever grow? Has the cold killed them or just delayed them? Can I dig in there and try to see how they are doing?
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| # ? Jun 20, 2012 20:10 |
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I tend to just reseed cause sees are cheap as hell and it's easier to thin things than get them established. Some of my squash did that a bit this year, and I cannot get my zucchini to sprout. Course, now that I've said that, six seeds will have just all raised their heads at once and my entire house will be stacked top to bottom with zucchini.
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| # ? Jun 20, 2012 20:59 |
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Okay, this is what I have to work with:  
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| # ? Jun 21, 2012 00:44 |
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A couple hanging baskets from above would be nice, but don't go crazy and get huge ones, keep it small, and just have a couple of them, or it'll seem super crowded. How many beams do you have there? Four? I'd put one at the far corner and one at the near corner, or thereabouts. Maybe a third in the middle depending on how much space you actually have, and if you can get it in the middle. If you find that the overhead hanging baskets are crowding the porch too much, you might be able to affix some hangers to the end of the beam there, and hang them out over open space. Some wide planters hung outside the railing will give you a nice long space to plant, while not changing the view or available space for other stuff. Makes the planters themselves virtually invisible, with nice flowers springing up from nowhere. If you wanted to get crafty, you could probably get some sort of creeper growing in low, long planters along the bottom edge, growing out of their beds and under the railing, hanging down over the ledge, but that'd be more of a "pretty from the outside" thing and not do much except eat up floor space on the inside. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2012 around 01:08 |
| # ? Jun 21, 2012 01:05 |
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Four beams. I like the idea of keeping the hanging plants simple. The people below us have way too much going on.
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| # ? Jun 21, 2012 01:34 |
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So yeah, with four beams, probably one at each end. If you don't want the pots themselves to be visible under the flowers (I prefer them not to be) you can always get the peat-lined baskets, although they'll likely cost a little more since you have to get a metal basket to hold it. On the other hand, you can re-use that metal basket indefinitely, and just buy a new peat liner every year and start your flowers from seeds. If you only do the two baskets, you could probably get away with slightly larger ones, if they're going one on each corner and there's nothing up against the edge of your deck (it looks like there isn't) so that's good to have as an option. Probably don't bother putting anything on the rail at each end of your porch...the grill will make it difficult to access that end, and the heat could damage the plants anyhow. Anywhere along the long rail should be fine and non-damaged by the grill, though, as that's far enough away from the actual heat. Anyhow, that's all just me. Find a big supplier and see what you like!
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| # ? Jun 21, 2012 02:44 |
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Double-post: Simple, easy to care for, and pretty. And maybe it's just me, but if you had a basket on each corner, I'd move your bird feeder to the one of the middle beams so it's framed by all your lovely plants (and put some seed in it, too)
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| # ? Jun 21, 2012 02:51 |
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I actually noticed it was almost empty after taking the picture. I'd filled it monday night. They go through that stuff like crazy. I might put some suet up too, along with a nicer, less plasticy-piece-of-crap feeder. When I first got the feeder, I wasn't sure how many birds I'd actually get. The day after I set it up, I peaked through the curtains and saw about two dozen birds swarming it  I try to keep it extended and off the side because they make quite the mess. Birds are cool. Their poop is not.I think I'll go with two hanging plants on either end and two rail planters. What are some plants to hit up? Geraniums? Begonias? Dahlias? anything with color? I have to say I let out a hearty laugh when I saw foxglove for sale at Fred Meyer for $5 a plant. That stuff's everywhere at my parent's place. I told them about it and they said "Come and take the drat stuff." Did some searching, and it looks like I can just use wine/sake/beer bottles in lieu of aqua globes. That'll definitely help out on weekends and trips. Pope Mobile fucked around with this message at Jun 21, 2012 around 16:17 |
| # ? Jun 21, 2012 16:14 |
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I've got a balcony now with a metal railing and I thought it would be cool to grow some sort of vine up onto the railing. I was thinking something like morning glory, they are kind of known for being quick growers. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
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| # ? Jun 21, 2012 20:51 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 06:56 |
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Pope mobile, some geraniums will do okay with just morning sun. Im not sure if they the same ones that smell awesome, but you never know your luck. Also primulas maybe, they're ever so pretty. Orchids like a lot of shade too, if you live somewhere warm enough. Delta Wye, how much sun do you have? Sweet peas are nice fast growing climbers, or snap peas, then you could eat them! Some pole beans have bright fancy flowers too.
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| # ? Jun 21, 2012 21:12 |
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