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I'll agree that this episode was a little heavy handed in spelling out it's themes, but I still enjoyed it. I'm usually Sally's number one fan but man she was really Betty Jr for most of this show and that was a bummer. I get the impression that the show wants us to feels sympathy for Betty and Jane but I just can't. Betty is a manipulative bitch, who truly doesn't give a poo poo about her children. She's so obsessed with how Don's new marriage is going that she throws away her son's drawing without a second thought, uses Sally to attempt to get Don's attention and even tries to pit Sally against Megan. If she jumped off a bridge next episode I'd probably cheer. Don definitely did a number on her, but as she said at the end of the episode, she has everything she thinks she wants: a supportive husband, three beautiful children, and a new home. Yet, all she can think about is Don. She's acting like a victim of domestic violence. Jane, on the other hand, is a little more sympathetic, but I have trouble feeling bad that her rich husband is leaving her because they don't love each other anymore. Roger is a very selfish person, but at the same time, she went from being Don's secretary to a rich stay-at-home wife in the span of a few weeks. If Roger hadn't come along she'd probably still be manning a desk somewhere in the office, or more likely she would've been fired after Don sleeps with her one night. She accuses Roger of ruining everything for her, but she didn't have to show him the new apartment, and she could have easily denied his sexual advances, but chose to give in to them ("roger wait..."). I'm not exactly siding with Roger, however, for he is clearly a man who is allowing his penis to lead him around. First he knocks Joanie up, now he worsens his ex-wife's depression. I fully expect him to be alone and penniless by the end of this season.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 03:38 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 07:00 |
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That episode was really firing on all cylinders for me! I loved the scene with Don and Megan in the bedroom. "She said WHAT!?" was classic Old Angry Don, and seeing Megan diffuse him so quick was a beautiful thing. Another good Don moment was how quickly he shifted gears from ripping Pete apart on the phone to being the Good Dad with Sally. But he still has a way to go with becoming a better person, as we see with his workplace behavior. When he says that he's glad good people like Ginsberg work for him, it should be the genuine sentiment of a manager surrounding himself with good people, not sarcastic petty jealousy. I also dug the Dark Shadows reference. As with Man From Uncle, my mom was a fan of that show and was roughly Sally's age at the time, and she got me into it in the 80s. Another good tapping into the cultural zeitgeist of the time. And as bad as the movie is, the way this ep aired on it's premiere weekend was either an amazing coincedence or timing of Romneyseque proportions on Weiner's part.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 05:21 |
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"I try out for every part, and wait tables for a living" "That's not fair" "I know" I tried to count the layers, but I lost track at 702. This show is so, so, so, so, so, so, so well written. Season 5 absolutely the strongest yet. "I feel bad for you" "I don't think about you at all" YES MC Fruit Stripe fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 05:50 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 05:34 |
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^^^One of my favorite scenes this episode. It's interesting that Megan's luck in life, and "selling out" according to her Marxist dad, has become a plot point, because I remember when Don proposed quite a few people figured she had planned for something like that to happen. Wasn't a huge fan of this episode, aside from the bombshell Betty introduced into Don and Sally's relationship. I think Fat Betty and this episode have been the weakest this season (though, of course, still miles above pretty well everything else); not a coincidence IMO that both were Betty-centric. I loved to see that Don still has it though. I actually thought his Satan snow-cone ad was really good and would love to see a commercial with Jon Hamm doing his Satan voice. It seems to me they're setting up a Ginsberg/Don showdown for the finale. I just wonder how Peggy factors in - it seemed highly significant that he noted that not only his name, but Peggy's name was absent from all the copy at the beginning. Disregard an earlier comment here re: Dark Shadows - I just read Sepinwall's review, and it seems more likely the fact this episode premiered around the same time as Burton's movie was just an extraordinary coincidence. Finally I loved that Manischewitz is a prospective new client, because my family has bought their matzo every Passover for years (owing to Jewish ancestry, though we don't practice). cletepurcel fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 06:05 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 05:50 |
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I love how Sally effortlessly flipped the Anna stuff right back onto Betty. "They spoke very fondly of her"  That was just perfect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_wEs9x7G3w
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| # ? May 14, 2012 06:14 |
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Hahaha, Ginsberg getting called out for not knowing the point of the Ozymandias poem was great.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 06:44 |
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kylejack posted:Hahaha, Ginsberg getting called out for not knowing the point of the Ozymandias poem was great. For some reason I feel like people have quoted that line to Weiner in his life and that was the exact comeback he used.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 06:49 |
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BrooklynBruiser posted:"I feel bad for you" "I don't think about you at all Ellsworth Toohey: Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me in any words you wish. Howard Roark: But I don't think of you!
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| # ? May 14, 2012 06:53 |
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I like the irony of Ginsberg getting offended about Jewish stereotyping, when during his Sno-Ball pitch he was all: "a cop, businessman, teacher with glasses, Indian chief -- anybody kids hate"
h_double fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 07:18 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 07:12 |
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"Can you keep a secret?" "No." And he didn't. Bless his heart.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 07:54 |
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kylejack posted:Reminds me of some dialogue from Atlas Shrugged. You've outed yourself as a normal person, Roark is from The Fountainhead. Rand 
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| # ? May 14, 2012 08:09 |
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Oh man, Betty is so toxic. e: I honestly sort of feel bad for Roger's (ex)wfe and Roger. Enigma89 fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 09:19 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 09:14 |
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Ginsberg is the best.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 11:26 |
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Really hoping Ginsberg is what Don needs to get back into the business. That kind of rivalry could do wonders for SCDP.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 12:15 |
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I am loving the recurring instances of Roger forking over large sums of cash to get the younger SCDP employees to do his bidding.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 12:25 |
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cletepurcel posted:^^^One of my favorite scenes this episode. It's interesting that Megan's luck in life, and "selling out" according to her Marxist dad, has become a plot point, because I remember when Don proposed quite a few people figured she had planned for something like that to happen. Also the name of the episode is Dark Shadow.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 13:09 |
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I wonder if they're setting up a plot point where Roger's going to go broke, what with all the expenses he keeps racking up without care. Also while I don't like Betty's actions I can totally understand where she's coming from and I think this episode set up an interesting parallel between her and Don's behavior. She was presented as being good dealing with the professional side of her life, counseling her husband about his career choices and offering to support him in what I thought was a very nice scene that also, coincidentally, showed her being way more adult than usual. She's also shown committing to the weight watchers thing with actual effort and willpower. Then she feels threatened in the personal sphere and lashes out through her children, who she shouldn't have involved, and tries to destroy someone else's happiness. That whole scene with the whipped cream was awesome and you can tell that she (unjustly) really hated Megan and Don for reducing her to that. Don reacted to this by being effective in dealing with his personal life and working through some things, very pointedly keeping the kids out of it. Then, inspired by one of his subordinate's ideas, he stays up working on something late, the first time in a while we've seen him really throw himself into his work. Of course, then he has to go up against Ginsberg, and Don isn't used to having to compete for approval within the ad agency. So he pettily trashes someone else's shot just to guarantee that his hard work is rewarded, instead of just letting his stuff stand on its own merits. Huh, now that I think about it Megan was good personal/poor professional and Roger was good professional/poor personal. Benagain fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 13:28 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 13:25 |
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Benagain posted:I wonder if they're setting up a plot point where Roger's going to go broke, what with all the expenses he keeps racking up without care. I'd be shocked if this doesn't happen before the series end. They've made such a point of him throwing dollars around in the most cavalier way possible that I think it's a near-certainty.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 13:40 |
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Doesn't Roger come from old established family money? I seem to remember something like his mother owns half the buildings in Manhattan.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:15 |
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Am I the only person who preferred Don's Snoball ad to Ginsberg's? 
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:41 |
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kaujot posted:Am I the only person who preferred Don's Snoball ad to Ginsberg's? Absolutely not! Every time Don used the devil voice was positively glorious. "YES... EVEN ME." Caveat: hearing "the Sno Ball, a sinful treat that gets you into hell!" was the biggest mindfuck. vvv As did I. vvv strangemusic fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 15:59 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 15:54 |
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Came into this thread expecting a gif of Betty pounding the ReddiWhip 
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:55 |
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I liked the visual but I thought the tagline was pretty bad. "This changes everything." What the hell does that even mean in relation to snowballs or the devil?
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:56 |
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bobkatt013 posted:Also the name of the episode is Dark Shadow. Sepinwall just confirmed it really was a giant coincidence.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:58 |
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SpaceMost posted:I liked the visual but I thought the tagline was pretty bad. "A snowballs chance in hell" means there's no chance for [x] to happen. The snoball frozen whatever product in the devil's hand wasn't melting.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:58 |
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flashy_mcflash posted:I'd be shocked if this doesn't happen before the series end. They've made such a point of him throwing dollars around in the most cavalier way possible that I think it's a near-certainty. I would like to agree, but that's just how a man of his stature, and Roger's personality is. He has the money to throw around. He has family money as well as his own from his years at SC and SCDP. Personally, I think the guy is super loaded.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 15:59 |
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SpaceMost posted:I liked the visual but I thought the tagline was pretty bad.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 16:06 |
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Yeah I thought Don's was way better. Still a dick though.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 16:10 |
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GramCracker posted:I would like to agree, but that's just how a man of his stature, and Roger's personality is. He has the money to throw around. He has family money as well as his own from his years at SC and SCDP. Personally, I think the guy is super loaded. Yeah, I doubt that will happen. I liked the bit where Bert and Roger were plotting to look relevant.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 16:14 |
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crazypeltast52 posted:You've outed yourself as a normal person, Roark is from The Fountainhead. Rand
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| # ? May 14, 2012 16:32 |
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Usually I don't get to watch Mad Men when it airs, I have to catch it Monday mornings. So I have to hold off reading the thread until then. Jesus Tapdancing Christ. This episode was full tilt, no holds barred, old school Mad Men. I saw the following: -Joan in Don's office at the beginning was so old-school that I'm having a hard time describing it. -Don tooling his huge Jack Kirby-esque head through a deserted SCDP was awesome. -Peggy with the "Am I the only one who can drink and work" line. No Peggy, I can drink and work. Hmmmm. -Kiernan Shipka out acting the living poo poo of four or five adult actors. -Ginsberg, Ginsberg, Ginsberg. "I don't think about you at all." is such an outstanding line. -Pete being the Pete we grew to know and hate in Season 1. -Tons of skin from the former Gilmore Girl. Holy moly. -Roger and his clumsy as balls Manischewitz bid, and his subsequent destruction of his ex-wife's happiness. What an idiot. He's so Season 1 Roger. -Megan once again being the voice of reason. Her bit with the redhead acting partner was absolute gold. Also, the shot of Betty checking out Megan was loving gold. And I have to reference her bit with Sally. I'm abusing the word gold, but dammit, that was loving gold. Gold, Jerry, Gold! -Also to be honest, Betty at the Weight Watchers meetings was incredible. January was visibly pregnant, but that just gave her role more gravitas. Heh, figuratively gravitas. -In addition, Chris Stanley is absolutely destroying his role. Watching him out act Betty is gravy at this point. -One last thing, Kiernen Shipka should send a tape of this episode to the Emmy voters, because drat, she crushed her role as the "tween daughter to Don Draper" I loving loved how she completely disarmed Megan and then asserted herself. And then she does the exact same thing to Betty. She's shaping up to what we thought Dakota Fanning could do until she grew up and suddenly couldn't act. EDIT: Somehow forgot how to spell. Recursive fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 16:42 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 16:35 |
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One tiny, niggling point is that I refuse to believe any of those WW women would let themselves be weighed wearing coats. Stripping off 5 pounds of tweed coat is a no-brainer.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 16:45 |
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hepscat posted:One tiny, niggling point is that I refuse to believe any of those WW women would let themselves be weighed wearing coats. Stripping off 5 pounds of tweed coat is a no-brainer. That ruins the strategy of wearing progressively lighter coats until summer when you have suddenly lost pound after miraculous pound.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 17:03 |
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cornface posted:That ruins the strategy of wearing progressively lighter coats until summer when you have suddenly lost pound after miraculous pound.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 17:06 |
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"She's hungry, Bobby." - Oh Sally 
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| # ? May 14, 2012 17:07 |
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hepscat posted:Doesn't Roger come from old established family money? I seem to remember something like his mother owns half the buildings in Manhattan.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 17:18 |
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   http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd...-machine-f_sexy
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| # ? May 14, 2012 17:33 |
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OnlyJuanMon posted:This sums it up nicely, but dayum. To be real, it's just an attractive young woman showing her breasts to us, but O HOLKY poo poo. Recursive fucked around with this message at May 14, 2012 around 18:46 |
| # ? May 14, 2012 18:39 |
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Hey who cares about anachronistic words showing up on Mad Men????!!!! http://www.prochronism.com/2012/05/callbacks.html
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| # ? May 14, 2012 18:40 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 07:00 |
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Recursive posted:This sums it up nicely, but dayum.
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| # ? May 14, 2012 18:58 |
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