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Some of the plot predictions in this thread make me think a lot of you have this show confused for a soap opera. This was the first episode filmed for the season, after more than a year off, so that might explain some of the rustiness.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 07:09 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 06:03 |
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Pilli posted:January Jones gave birth in mid-September of 2011. In all likelihood, this "fat plot" was written around her actual pregnancy weight gain since filming resumed around July/August, where she was very much pregnant. For that reason, I'm not looking too deeply into this new plot and see it more as a way for Weiner to keep Betty alive on the series regardless of the actress' personal circumstances.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 12:04 |
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Astroman posted:All I see: My immediate reaction was "You lost your war, Betty Francis." kegslayer posted:Reading through the thread, I think I completely missed Pete's power play. Isn't Roger still the main accounts man for Mohawk and didn't Pete really did help bring them back in? I don't think I understand why Roger got so peeved. He's a figurehead only, and though he's nominally in charge he sees everyone applauding Pete's smug champagnefest and realises now that Lucky Strike has gone how extraneous he actually is - both to himself and everyone else. Roger said "We both dream of throwing something through this window," and made a couple of black "bombs away" comments. I don't think he's suicidal per se but he at the very least seems he's going through some very heavy re-evalutation of his life. I can't recall if Joan's baby is actually his or not - was it confirmed she got an abortion?
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 12:14 |
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Eau de MacGowan posted:I can't recall if Joan's baby is actually his or not - was it confirmed she got an abortion? It is and she didn't. Which makes his line about the baby last episode extra special.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 12:25 |
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SpaceMost posted:And I hope Betty doesn't get hooked on diet pills because I've seen Requiem for a Dream I would not mind Betty having messed up dreams of Tappy Tibbons and sharing the fate of Ellyn Bursten.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 12:29 |
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Sepinwall pointed out that the theme of this episode is the fear of being replaced/left behind. Roger is feeling more and more irrelevant. Betty, on top of her usual gloom, sees herself growing fat while her ex husband marries a younger woman (Betty calls her 20, when Megan is supposed to be 26). Peggy wrestles with bringing in creative that might outshine her later on.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 12:55 |
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For all those suffering from fat suit blindness... you do know that there are photos of what January Jones actually looked like when she was pregnant, right? Pregnant:  Wearing a fat suit: 
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 12:56 |
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I know people complained about Harry's slightly different characterization last episode, but as of this one I'm officially loving New Harry. Every single moment he had screen time in this episode was amazing.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 13:55 |
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Astroman posted:My favorite response to this was on an ABC News blog earlier today. I can't find it, so I think they edited it since, but they reported a bit about the line and Henry's opinion and Tagg's reaction. Then at the end they dryly noted. "Henry Francis is a fictional character who is the husband of Betty, former wife of Don Draper, and also a fictional character on the television show." This is reminding me of when Dan Qualye got everyone worked up over a fictional character being a single mother.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 14:29 |
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Chinston Wurchill posted:I'm no oncologist, but couldn't a benign thyroid tumor cause weight gain? The only difference is that it's not going to spread at the moment. Yes. Any growth on the thyroid is going to have an affect on that organ. My sister has a benign growth on hers and needs to take a synthetic hormones to keep her body from putting on excessive weight. The show seemed to want to just act like, nope, Betty doesn't have cancer, she's just a fat hungry house wife.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 14:47 |
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Eau de MacGowan posted:Roger said "We both dream of throwing something through this window," and made a couple of black "bombs away" comments. I don't think he's suicidal per se but he at the very least seems he's going through some very heavy re-evalutation of his life. I think he wants to put Pete through the window.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 15:13 |
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kylejack posted:That was 6 years ago in show time? Yep. Nixon/Kennedy '60 was in season 1, remember?
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 15:26 |
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He's young, handsome, beautiful wife, Navy hero, honestly Don, it shouldn't be hard to convince America Dick Nixon is a winner.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 15:47 |
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Who was the woman that Betty ran into in the doctor's office, is it someone we know from earlier in the season? Also at the dinner with the Heinz family in the beginning, when they say "We've been married since high-school" Don says "Well, we've been married longer than you I guess." Is that just a joke like "OH haha you guys look so YOUNG I guess you must've JUST GRADUATED haha"?
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 16:14 |
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geeves posted:I would not mind Betty having messed up dreams of Tappy Tibbons and sharing the fate of Ellyn Bursten. Pilli posted:Lastly, it would seem that the new guy is gay, a way maybe for Weiner of replacing Sal, whose return has been claimed over and over by the fans ever since he was fired by Don. When Michael's father urged him to go out and try to meet a girl, crickets replied. Grocery-shopping crickets. I thought this could be a sign, if not that he's utterly insecure towards women - which he didn't seem to be when facing Peggy. I'm actually pretty curious about this new guy. At first I was put-off by him but the contrast of how he was at the office versus what he came home to really piqued my interest. I got a sort of Freddie Lyon-from-The Hour vibe from him, what with the juxtaposition of his apparently glamorous/important job to his drab apartment, and living alone with an aged father. I don't get the sense that he's gay; perhaps depressed and good at hiding it. Maybe by the end of the season, Peggy's comment about his 'acting' (or whatever) will seem ham handed. Ofc. Sex Robot BPD fucked around with this message at Apr 3, 2012 around 16:25 |
| # ? Apr 3, 2012 16:19 |
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zoux posted:Is that just a joke like "OH haha you guys look so YOUNG I guess you must've JUST GRADUATED haha"? Yes
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 16:22 |
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SpaceMost posted:I'm actually pretty curious about this new guy. At first I was put-off by him but the contrast of how he was at the office versus what he came home to really piqued my interest. He's a lot like Peggy in some ways. His background is not suitable to his choice of career, but he is talented, is enthusiastic about the company, and Don likes him right away based on his talent. And Don, whose life is a complete fabrication, also belongs in this club. Also, I miss Sal a lot. He was one of my favorite characters, and one of the truly sympathetic anchors in the early seasons. His character was cut for practical real world reasons; they had to reduce the size of the main cast and the producers chose not to pursue his story. It is hard to think of a way to bring him back in while being true to the real world esthetic of the show. It would be nice to find out somehow what he had been doing. That said, Sal also has moral ambiguities due to the times of the show. He married a girl who truly loved him in order to fit in and advance his career. His reasons are sympathetic, but he is just as much of a liar and cheater as the other guys in the office. It would be interesting to see that path played out. Is Sal really any better than the straight philanderers in his office, given all the personal destruction he is willing to sow for his career? Unfortunately the gay rights movement lags well behind the timeline of this show so it is very hard to see how he doesn't get jettisoned at some point. Lemmi Caution fucked around with this message at Apr 3, 2012 around 17:01 |
| # ? Apr 3, 2012 16:48 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:That said, Sal also has moral ambiguities due to the times of the show. He married a girl who truly loved him in order to fit in and advance his career. His reasons are sympathetic, but he is just as much of a liar and cheater as the other guys in the office. It would be interesting to see that path played out. Is Sal really any better than the straight philanderers in his office, given all the personal destruction he is willing to sow for his career? Unfortunately the gay rights movement lags well behind the timeline of this show so it is very hard to see how he doesn't get jettisoned at some point. Everything you're saying is true, he's married a girl he knows he doesn't love and he's cheating on her, he's not completely without fault at all. But until basically his last appearance in the show, Sal was deeply struggling with his sexuality, he was closeted as gently caress and doing what he was doing was clearly killing him inside. Saying he did it "for the sake of his career" is minimizing it too much. Coming out would ruin his entire life, it's essentially inconceivable. I don't have any stats or anything at hand to back it up, but there was an abundance of suicides in that era of gay guys who were in the exact situation Sal was in. Roger or Don or Pete have affairs because they feel like it, Sal is under incredible pressure to deny who he is. I don't think you can compare him to the other guys having affairs, he's much more of a victim. Hoops fucked around with this message at Apr 3, 2012 around 18:06 |
| # ? Apr 3, 2012 18:03 |
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Hoops posted:Again, I think that's judging 60s characters by modern standards. I think sodomy was actually still a felony charge in the US around that time, he basically doesn't have a choice. Kurt is young beat-generation free-love era counter-culturalist, the consequences of society knowing he is gay is nothing like what it is for Sal. We are in total agreement. I'm not trying to judge everyone by modern standards. I see that Sal is living by a different standard than everyone else, even the women. That is why he is so interesting. A major theme of Mad Men is what one is willing to do to fit in and take one's place in life. Like Don, Sal's life is a total lie. How do Don's actions compare and reflect on Sal, given that by modern mores we are more likely to sympathize with Sal? What about Sal's wife? If his reasons are more understandable, is she any less abused? I'd love to see this played out, but it is hard to see where Sal realistically goes in the early sixties. I do hope we see him again, but I suspect if we do it may not be pretty.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 18:37 |
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Why was it that Betty couldn't remember the term tumour? Was that general naivety because of her sheltered life? Also apparently laws against homosexuality in New York state weren't fully repealed until 1980 according to Wikipedia. Would be good to see Sal's return, or at least what happened to him.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 18:56 |
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Metrication posted:Also apparently laws against homosexuality in New York state weren't fully repealed until 1980 according to Wikipedia. Would be good to see Sal's return, or at least what happened to him. Anti-sodomy laws were only recently ruled unconstitional, but they were largely unenforced previously. Homosexuals were subject to social sanction much more than legal sanction. Sal is a highly skilled professional. What happens to a person like that after having their life and career blown up? We are shown that Sal does care deeply about his wife, and at some point she realizes he is gay. We are also shown that she is basically willing to live with that, but his outing and firing ruins that.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:15 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:Homosexuals were subject to social sanction much more than legal sanction. I had assumed that to be the case. It was fully decriminalised in 1967 in England, but I know someone of the baby boomer generation who chose to get married, she has three kids and only came out about 6 or 7 years ago. One thing that always pops up when I read about the 20s is the brief acceptance or at least tolerance of homosexuality, followed by a large conservative backlash.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:27 |
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Metrication posted:I had assumed that to be the case. It was fully decriminalised in 1967 in England, but I know someone of the baby boomer generation who chose to get married, she has three kids and only came out about 6 or 7 years ago. One thing that always pops up when I read about the 20s is the brief acceptance or at least tolerance of homosexuality, followed by a large conservative backlash.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:38 |
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The more I think about that Romney line the more it sticks out like a terrible sore thumb. It's just *too* current, it cannibalised the entire rest of that scene. And I didn't get "gay" in the slightest from the new guy, don't see at all what you guys are seeing.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:49 |
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Hoops posted:And I didn't get "gay" in the slightest from the new guy, don't see at all what you guys are seeing. I haven't read back but are people really getting gay from that guy?? I got "Jewish and will probably end up banging Peggy".
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:53 |
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Hoops posted:And I didn't get "gay" in the slightest from the new guy, don't see at all what you guys are seeing. He's not gay. It's just the soap opera club trying to understand a show they will apparently never get.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:56 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:He's not gay. It's just the soap opera club trying to understand a show they will apparently never get. Anyone who doesn't want to tag-team a couple of hookers with his weird old dad is obviously gay.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 19:59 |
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SpaceMost posted:The gangster movie The Public Enemy has a stereotypically gay tailor, complete with effete mannerisms, lisp, and coy flirtations with James Cagney's gangster character. It was quite surprising to see that in a film from 1931. That entire movie is full of stereotypes
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 20:00 |
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Hoops posted:The more I think about that Romney line the more it sticks out like a terrible sore thumb. It's just *too* current, it cannibalised the entire rest of that scene. Mitt Romney is a joke, and is about to lose spectacularly to a black Democratic incumbent. The reference to his father in this show is his family's best chance at being remembered for anything.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 20:05 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:Mitt Romney is a joke, and is about to lose spectacularly to a black Democratic incumbent. The reference to his father in this show is his family's best chance at being remembered for anything. Once he loses the election, Romneydyne Systems will likely start mass production of the Mittbot-1000. With its dispassionate demeanour and minimal uncanny valley effect, I'm sure it'll be a big hit in retail environments.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 20:11 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:Mitt Romney is a joke, and is about to lose spectacularly to a black Democratic incumbent. The reference to his father in this show is his family's best chance at being remembered for anything.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 20:15 |
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I choose to think of it as a reminder that our politics and politicians today do not exist in a vacuum, but have a long history stretching back to times we might think of as unsavory.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 20:25 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:I choose to think of it as a reminder that our politics and politicians today do not exist in a vacuum, but have a long history stretching back to times we might think of as unsavory.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 22:42 |
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El Destructo posted:This. Also, news flash for anyone who thinks women and minorities are shocked (shocked, I tell you!) at sexism and racism in the "distant" past: They still deal with that crap on a daily basis. It's just hidden better now. e: Gendered insults hurrah. 
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:05 |
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Lemmi Caution posted:I choose to think of it as a reminder that our politics and politicians today do not exist in a vacuum, but have a long history stretching back to times we might think of as unsavory. Same here. Actually I felt the same way about the mention of Nader last season- it kind of forcefully reminds you that, yeah, this show is based on reality and your parents or grandparents actually existed in this world- that there are people alive right now who actually lived through all the stuff in the show.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:08 |
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Here's a question for the female fans of the show: Do you find Jon Hamm *that* good-looking? Barely an episode goes by without some kind of comment about how good-looking he is. I don't really see it. He's a handsome enough guy sure, but doesn't strike me as so far above average to warrant all the attention he gets. It was the whole idea of his character on 30 Rock too. Don Draper the character is obviously this powerful, dashing seducer, I get that part. But I don't think the actor himself compares to most guy celebrities these days. Are they just playing up the fact that tastes were different back then? Carey Grant and Errol Flynn were both complete dreamboats in their day but don't have model looks at all by today's standards. Can't believe I'm actually asking this. Hoops fucked around with this message at Apr 3, 2012 around 23:21 |
| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:18 |
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Hoops posted:Here's a question for the female fans of the show: Do you find Jon Hamm *that* good-looking? Barely an episode goes by without some kind of comment about how good-looking he is. I don't really see it. He's a handsome enough guy sure, but doesn't strike me as so far above average to warrant all the attention he gets. It was the whole idea of his character on 30 Rock too. This probably helps, too. And I think he just gets interesting for being in the best TV show of all time and playing one of the most captivating characters.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:27 |
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ufarn posted:It's probably relevant to ask whether you're into guys; I only know what's attractive about women for those reasons, but Hamm is a pretty drat charming guy. Voice, acting chops, humour.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:32 |
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Hoops posted:I'm straight, but anyone can recognise a good-looking man when they see one. Jon Hamm is a pretty good looking guy sure, strong jaw and all that, but such a big deal is made out of the fact that he's sooo handsome (Neil Patrick Harris sang about it at the Emmys as well) and I just don't see it. ufarn fucked around with this message at Apr 3, 2012 around 23:43 |
| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:40 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 06:03 |
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Hoops posted:I'm straight, but anyone can recognise a good-looking man when they see one. Jon Hamm is a pretty good looking guy sure, strong jaw and all that, but such a big deal is made out of the fact that he's sooo handsome (Neil Patrick Harris sang about it at the Emmys as well) and I just don't see it. I also think it has to do with the character that he portrays on the show. It's all the characteristics of the Don Draper character that make him so attractive to many different people.
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| # ? Apr 3, 2012 23:41 |
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