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Was there a different editor this episode, or just Slattery's heavy hand? Signal 30 was a bit too heavy on the match cuts for my liking (under-the-desk via the car was just plain nasty), but with all the melodrama this episode some editing shenanigans were sure to come with it, I guess... High notes were anytime we were complicit with Pete's gaze, and it was deliciously lingering (by TV standards); taking us down the Driver's Ed jailbait's leg before settling on the tapping of her flip-flops, travelling up the tight jeans of Handsome sizing up his crotch and bicep bulges.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:02 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 23:31 |
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Actually, I'm not so sure now about that robot story interpretation - I went back and grabbed the quote:quote:Don: Why does he do it? I could see that going either way depending on how you want to interpret the second part of that line. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 18:08 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:06 |
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SpaceMost posted:I think they missed the point of the robot story. At least, I don't remember it being as they describe it in the review.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:10 |
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kylejack posted:I think you have it right. Ken was explaining that the robot was a slave, and the robot's programming forces him to continue serving his masters, the humans. The robot can't just decide he wants to go be a chef or something, he can only maintain the bridge. But within that scope, he has latitude to make these very small decisions, like where bolts go, and so he chooses to remove the bolt to overthrow the people making him miserable. Another reason Cosgrove hides his stories is because they're about his work life and co-workers, he's somewhat worried they'll notice.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:14 |
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Miss Lonelyhearts posted:Another reason Cosgrove hides his stories is because they're about his work life and co-workers, he's somewhat worried they'll notice. A good story, with some nice ambiguity. And it's just tossed in for a quick scene. This is an amazing show!
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:19 |
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Also didn't someone say in this thread a couple weeks ago that Ken is like this useless character who doesn't get any time to expand his character? Nice of him to get his own subplot in an episode.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:30 |
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Where is it Trudy keeps saying she and Pete live? Koskob? Causcob? I've been trying to look it up but I can't seem to spell it.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:32 |
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Brick Card posted:Where is it Trudy keeps saying she and Pete live? Koskob? Causcob? I've been trying to look it up but I can't seem to spell it. Somewhere in Conneticut.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:35 |
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Some of the cuts were heavy handed, but overall I loved the directing. Fantastic episode, and for me what stuck out is how much Pete looked like Don due to the lighting/hair/wardrobe when getting up to fix the sink and then later when coming home drunk.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:35 |
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On a rewatch, some notes -Pete asks Roger to give advice to Lane. The Ken/Peggy pact includes them both leaving together: "The pact still stands, if I go anywhere, you go with me." - Ken -Megan convinces don to change his sport coat pre-party. Don had a normal suit on before. -Is Megan sterile? -Lane got a couple of openings to "share" problems with the Jaguar guy. The first was gardening then there was some war talk. -Ken's genocidal robot acted on its own accord: Don asks: "Why does he do it?" Ken: "...He dsoen't have the power to make any decisions except he can decide wether that bolt's on or off." feedmyleg posted:Actually, I'm not so sure now about that robot story interpretation - I went back and grabbed the quote Bishop fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 18:45 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:37 |
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Brick Card posted:Where is it Trudy keeps saying she and Pete live? Koskob? Causcob? I've been trying to look it up but I can't seem to spell it.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:37 |
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feedmyleg posted:Actually, I'm not so sure now about that robot story interpretation - I went back and grabbed the quote: My PVR cut out after Lane and Joan in the office together and that's the only part I really regret missing.  e: \/ I have a hard time imagining Peggy would bail on Don. Maybe I'm putting too much stock in their relationship, but they had a little bit of a mentor/apprentice thing going on and it just doesn't seem like Peggy's style to up and leave. Ofc. Sex Robot BPD fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 19:19 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:41 |
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Bishop posted:The Ken/Peggy pact includes them both leaving together: "The pact still stands, if I go anywhere, you go with me." - Ken Did he literally mean another company? I just thought he meant that he wouldn't try to be "upward moving" without her.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:44 |
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feedmyleg posted:Did he literally mean another company? I just thought he meant that he wouldn't try to be "upward moving" without her. Madame: "If there's something you can't find here, a friend of mine has an apartment, maybe more what you're looking for and he's walking distance" Don: "Best I've ever seen that done" 
Bishop fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 18:51 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:47 |
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feedmyleg posted:Did he literally mean another company? I just thought he meant that he wouldn't try to be "upward moving" without her. I think it was more "If I go to dinner with a client, I'll let you tag along"
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:53 |
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SpaceMost posted:Could you transcript the voice over at the end? "The Man with the Miniature Orchestra by Dave Algonquin There were phrases of Beethoven's ninth symphony that still made Coe cry. He always thought it had to do with the circumstances of the composition itself. He imagined Beethoven, deaf and soul-sick, his heart broken, scribbling furiously while death stood in the doorway, clipping his nails. Still, Coe thought, it might have been living in the country that was making him cry. It was killing him with its silence, and loneliness. Making everything ordinary, too beautiful to bear." The episode ends with Pete looking on as drivers ed girl and mr handsome hook up in class, his face dimly lit by the light of the projection, his expression pitiably sad. The sountrack fades to the sound of a dripping faucet, and the episode ends. 
Genderfluid fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 19:02 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:54 |
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SpaceMost posted:Could you transcript the voice over at the end? quote:The Man With The Miniature Orchestra, And whoa, I just noticed the scene Ken's referring to, with Pete playing the symphony on the record player, and saying he expects to see a mini orchestra inside the record player. drat I am dense sometimes. I love that Ken took his new nom de plume from Pete's joke about Algonquins. Aha, and he takes the name Coe from Trudy's story about where the name Cos Cob comes from. quote:In 1641 Robert Coe moved to the Stamford plantation and became one of its leading figures. At about the same time, he encouraged his cousin, John Coe, to sail from England and settle at the mouth of the Mianus River. John built a sea wall at the mouth of the river to provide safe mooring for small sea craft. A sea wall at that time was referred to as a "cob" hence the name Coes' cob, which eventually became Cos Cob. Unbelievable how much subtle poo poo I miss in this show. kylejack fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 19:00 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 18:54 |
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kylejack posted:And whoa, I just noticed the scene Ken's referring to, with Pete playing the symphony on the record player, and saying he expects to see a mini orchestra inside the record player. drat I am dense sometimes. The whole thing was perfect
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:01 |
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SpaceMost posted:That ties in to Pete pretty well in this episode -- going through the motions, feeling empty and unfulfilled, and the only choices he can make are to keep performing to expectation (be a good co-worker, be a good husband), or defy it to catastrophic result -- hence the prostitute and the fight with Lane. Just so he can feel like a man instead of a robot See, I think that's a bad interpretation of Pete. Pete's real underlying problem isn't that things go off the rails when he stops performing to expectation, but that Pete doesn't really know what he wants. Pete just wants things, period, without having ever figured out what about those things it is that's going to make him happy. Pete started out wanting to be Don because he looked at Don and saw what he thought was a happy and successful man. Now he's basically Don Draper 2.0, but he's still miserable because being Don didn't make him happy. So now, he figures he'll be Don in the process of tearing his marriage apart, because Don did it and outwardly seemed very happy. That he acts in the "expected" way isn't Pete being trapped by society, but him trapped by an inability to know what it is that would actually make him happy. Since he doesn't know what that is, he co-opts other peoples' models of happiness. People say that being married brings joy to your life, so Pete starts off getting married. Ken's writing made him happy, so Pete went through that stage where he wanted to be an author. Don's life looks like it's a happy one, so Pete wants that. Here's Roger and the client whoring around and they look happy, and Don's done plenty of this in the past, so let's pursue this too. In many ways, Pete's rifle epitomizes his childish attitude. He wants it not because he has a use for it but because of the sort of person he imagines he can be with it. He has the resources to get it, but once he gets it he doesn't know what to do with it and it doesn't make him any happier. So it gets shoved into a box in his office and he's off to wanting something new in the hopes that, this time, the new thing is really the key to make him happy that he's been searching for all along.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:03 |
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Bishop posted:On a rewatch, some notes Oh god, that coat.  Beautiful.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:04 |
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seravid posted:Oh god, that coat. I am so glad that I started reading Tom + Lorenzo's Mad Style column this season, they're going to love this. The great thing about their commentary is that it really makes me a more active and intelligent viewer since it's something I hadn't put nearly enough thought into until the styles really started changing.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:10 |
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We're all gonna be wearing coats like that in 15 years and think it's a new trend.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:17 |
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Bishop posted:We're all gonna be wearing coats like that in 15 years and think it's a new trend.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:29 |
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Bishop posted:-Is Megan sterile? I was wondering this a couple pages back. I don't know why she would have mentioned that her getting pregnant is "impossible". Also, if she is sterile, Don doesn't know.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:37 |
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I loved Lane's dinner with Jaguar man, where he kept trying to steer the conversation toward matters of dark permanence, only to have it turn out that the guy had nothing but cheerful memories about everything.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:51 |
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Strong Sauce posted:Also didn't someone say in this thread a couple weeks ago that Ken is like this useless character who doesn't get any time to expand his character? Nice of him to get his own subplot in an episode. I'm relatively certain that this is the first subplot he's had that focused on his own internal motivations and feelings instead of just him doing something and someone else responding to it (Pete being jealous of him or trying to challenge him, Sal being attracted to him, Harry being upset that he makes more money than him, etc)
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 19:53 |
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Sober posted:Also, who is the actor who was playing Hanson/Handsome? I could swear I remember him from something recently, pretty much playing a super dumb meathead character but I can't put my finger on it. Parker Young, he plays Ryan Shay on Suburgatory.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 20:04 |
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windwaker posted:I was wondering this a couple pages back. I don't know why she would have mentioned that her getting pregnant is "impossible". Also, if she is sterile, Don doesn't know. I don't even know why it matters if she is. I know drunk Don was all "let's make a baby", but I seriously doubt he actually wants more kids, he has enough of a hard time trying (failing) to be a good dad with his existing ones. Maybe it's just their way of preempting a cheap future storyline.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 20:08 |
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I very highly doubt this would actually happen but realizing Ken is writing all his stories off his work experience makes me envision an ending where it shows him at a successful, progressive ad firm in the 70s writing an actual book about SCDP. I know that's too cheap a thing for Weiner and co. to actually do but I could see it happening to Ken,
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 20:22 |
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Did anyone else get some serious Norman Rockwell vibes in the scene just after Don fixes the sink and then Trudy brings the baby out? It was almost too saccharin, but it felt intentionally so and not hokey.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 20:35 |
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windwaker posted:I was wondering this a couple pages back. I don't know why she would have mentioned that her getting pregnant is "impossible". Also, if she is sterile, Don doesn't know. I simply thought she was on birth control, being the young stylish girl that she is. Of course, WE know now that birth control isn't 100% fool proof, but did they know that back then?
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 20:56 |
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Did they ever explain why don was the focus of the dinner party? Seems weird to me and kind of adds more to Pete's emasculation in the episode.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:00 |
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Meow Cadet posted:I simply thought she was on birth control, being the young stylish girl that she is. Of course, WE know now that birth control isn't 100% fool proof, but did they know that back then? I would imagine Peggy knows.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:10 |
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Elftor posted:I would imagine Peggy knows. i thought she started on birth control after her first tryst with pete, but maybe i'm misremembering
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:12 |
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SpaceMost posted:Did anyone else get some serious Norman Rockwell vibes in the scene just after Don fixes the sink and then Trudy brings the baby out? Not really, I was way too preoccupied with how goddamn cute Tammy Campbell is. Those chubby little cheeks! Meow Cadet posted:I simply thought she was on birth control, being the young stylish girl that she is. Of course, WE know now that birth control isn't 100% fool proof, but did they know that back then? I didn't think that it meant Megan was sterile, or that she thought birth control is foolproof, just that she doesn't want a child of her own right now. She's great with her stepkids (You're like Maria von Trapp!) and its obvious she genuinely loves them and likes having them around, but I figured that Megan is enjoying her life a great deal. She's got a good job that she likes, and she and Don are enjoying being Mr. and Mrs. right now. There's no need to rush into parenthood. I think my own life colors my perception of Mad Men a bit too much, because that's how me and Mr. Fooby are right now. Our second anniversary is next month. We want kids, but not right now. We like being a pair, and that's how I see Megan and Don also. They enjoy each other's company and going to work together, lunch and whatnot. They've got the freedom to go out and be social, or get dinner spontaneously. Having a baby would cut down on the off-the-cuff decisions to go out and get dinner or stay out late dancing or whatever. Its hard to throw a big, loud, sloppy (fun) birthday party with a live band when there's a baby down the hall. I don't want it to sound like I find Megan selfish or childish, because I think she's cool as gently caress and great for Don. They're each improving and growing as people by way of being together- each makes the other stronger. I just think they like the way things are right now and they're content to enjoy it for awhile. fallin1 posted:Did they ever explain why don was the focus of the dinner party? Seems weird to me and kind of adds more to Pete's emasculation in the episode. I didn't catch it if they did- maybe it was meant to be "we're so glad you came!" and it came out wrong? I don't know, I cringed- c'mon, Pete, your job is to be a smooth talker, foster relationships and make people feel good, what the gently caress was that? JaundiceDave posted:i thought she started on birth control after her first tryst with pete, but maybe i'm misremembering Right after she got hired at Sterling Cooper. It is implied that she either hosed up or didn't know to take it at the same time every day, or that it failed in some other way. She couldn't handle the thought of being pregnant, even as she's going into labor- impossible, she says. It's implied that she was taking the birth control the whole time, since she never thought of pregnancy, just that eating off the food cart was making her fat. On a completely different note, I find myself wondering if maybe Peggy and Ken will strike out on their own one day. They seemed a bit antsy with SCDP this episode. Peggy might want to go with Ken to client dinners to learn more about that side of the business. She's killing it on the creative side, and has a bangin'-rear end job to prove it, but client relationships are just as vital as great ideas if you're going to keep their business. They're the best in their respective departments, and they've discovered that they are unstoppable when they work together. They broke the no-new-business streak after Lucky Strike hosed off. I think they'd do very well together. I loved this episode. I would've liked for Sally and Peggy to get more screen time because they are my favorites  but I will admit that two more storylines in one episode might've been a bit crowded. MAD MEN 
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:16 |
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JaundiceDave posted:i thought she started on birth control after her first tryst with pete, but maybe i'm misremembering She got her prescription that day and she did not start or it did not have time to take effect. I also see that Peggy and Kenny have the pact is due to Don no longer being the man he was so Peggy has no loyalty to the firm. bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 21:24 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:16 |
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bobkatt013 posted:She got her prescription that day so wither she did not start or it did not have time to take effect. thought it was something like that, thanks for clearing it up.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:22 |
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Sober posted:I couldn't stop laughing when Megan just blurted out Cynthia's name during the scene at the dinner table. It was also an extra level of funny for me because Ken/Cynthia are also my parents' names. (But we are not the Cosgroves) He's Ryan Shaw in Suburgatory.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:39 |
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foobyfooby posted:On a completely different note, I find myself wondering if maybe Peggy and Ken will strike out on their own one day. They seemed a bit antsy with SCDP this episode. Peggy might want to go with Ken to client dinners to learn more about that side of the business. She's killing it on the creative side, and has a bangin'-rear end job to prove it, but client relationships are just as vital as great ideas if you're going to keep their business. They're the best in their respective departments, and they've discovered that they are unstoppable when they work together. They broke the no-new-business streak after Lucky Strike hosed off. I think they'd do very well together. But yeah, the cracks are starting to really show with the partners and I really doubt we'll have another season without some major changes in management. I think both Ken and Peggy are different than the rest of the office because they don't really see themselves identifying with the people that they work with. It's obvious that the walking disasters around the office effect them personally, but it seems that they don't really feel the pressure to emulate others the same way Pete does. Ken kind of frat-boyed it up the first couple of seasons, but that slowly faded away. I'm not sure if that was an error of an unfleshed out character (he was really creepy in the first episode) or if it was meant to be taken that he changed -- possibly by pursuing his own passion, getting married, or both. passionate dongs fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 21:59 |
| # ? Apr 16, 2012 21:57 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 23:31 |
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JaundiceDave posted:"The Man with the Miniature Orchestra Thanks for this. I was coming into this thread again specifically to ask for a transcript of the voice over at the end. Goddamn, Cosgrove.
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| # ? Apr 16, 2012 22:02 |
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