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CaptainCarrot posted:He's not controlling a regular person. He's forcing your actions through the implants he put in you during the rebuilding process at the beginning of 2, which are probably based on Reaper tech since everything in this series seems to be. He's controlling Anderson too, who has no Reaper implants.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:35 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 15:39 |
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Dominic White posted:Yes, just like how Endor was destroyed in the midst of the victory celebrations, right? Was there a scene in the original Star Wars movie where a Death Star very specifically blew up and caused this poo poo to happen? You know, perhaps in a video released to promote The Return of the Jedi after the end of The Empire Strikes Back? Because that is the situation here. This isn't just players assuming things work that way. This is specifically shown in the DLC made specifically to promote ME3. I don't necessarily agree it is the writer's intent but then Bioware hosed up really hard by releasing a DLC that flat-out says and shows that is what happens. It wouldn't even have been a concern if their promotional DLC didn't show it. (And as I said, I'm more willing to believe it is a mistake than their intention.) My problems are with everything else in the ending, including the fact that it is a thematic mess, that it removes the player's ability to chose a non-stupid ending and FORCES them to agree with the villains who murdered trillions of people, and that it is pointlessly nihilistic in a game that was anything but. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Mar 11, 2012 around 17:50 |
| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:35 |
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homeless snail posted:A lot of people are making the comparison to Gurren Lagann, and its mindblowing how apt that is, and how much better they pull it off in TTGL. They're both stories about incomprehensible enemies that periodically purge the galaxy, only later to be revealed that they're actually ancient civilizations that are trying to protect nature from the inevitably destructive nature of life. The difference that makes Gurren Lagann so successful is that they condense the central struggle into a very easily digestible visual metaphor: spirals. Long before you know anything about the antagonists you're already familiar with the power of spirals, hell, even the plot itself is structured into a gigantic spiral the way it escalates upwards and outwards. When the Anti-Spirals finally explain their intentions, you gain a new perspective on everything that's happened up to that point. Ultimately there's the loving amazing final battle sequence that appropriately uses that metaphor to sum up the series and resolve the situation.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:39 |
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Dominic White posted:A lot of the ending anger I'm seeing here seems to stem from this bizarre assumption that everyone dies, the galaxy is hosed and the game is actually a grand tragedy. Even if the catalyst can destroy Mass Relays without causing a huge solar system/cluster destroying explosion like in Arrival, you are completely underestimating how critical to the survival of the galaxy races and the galactic community Mass relays are. I've covered it in more detail before, but in short, without them, the vast majority of the population of the entire civilized galaxy is going to die. Many, many planets and entire solar systems of people are going to entirely die off because they relied resources to be transported to them that can not be without Mass Relays, and then even the homeworlds can't get the resources they need to properly rebuild and function without the Mass Relays. Things are worse than that if the Mass Relays DID explode like in Arrival, but just saying that's only the tip of how bad Shepard makes the galaxy.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:40 |
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Dominic White posted:You didn't just nuke the galaxy and throw it into a new dark age. That's retarded. But yeah, I don't think we nuked the Galaxy at least. e; beaten.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:41 |
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Drake Bate posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=booBmcFw_Lk
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:42 |
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Aristobulus posted:And honestly? I can not say I wouldn't buy the dlc, even though I know it would be scummy of them to do. I know I'd be part of the problem, but I just couldn't pass up getting an actual conclusive, good ending to the series I've invested so much time into. Doubly so if it's a happy ending for my shep and LI and characters and such. I can't say i won't be paying for a proper (for me) closure too. Yes that makes us the part of the "problem" but i've already paid 10 bucks to post on SA (and 25 more for archives+plat), an internet forum, about video games so my hard earned money management is clearly lacking. So much for "growing out of games" i guess. gently caress this gay earth  .
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:42 |
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Flatscan posted:He's controlling Anderson too, who has no Reaper implants. I assumed it was simply your proximity to the whole Citadel. It's all Reaper tech, you're at the heart of it, and while you're not aware of it for a few minutes afterwards, you're right below the lead Reaper child thing. And TIM was wired up to be a beacon to control husks, who knows what the Reapers did to him after. Or maybe he just didn't know that Reaper tech as well as he thought (which is pretty much the entire point of TIM's story). Shepard and Anderson are just so beaten up, so worn down, that the Indoctrination is able to gently caress with them somewhat without entirely taking them over. That's what I assumed anyway.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:43 |
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One of the stupidest things about the ending for me is that throughout the entire sereis, the three Reapers we ended up talking to all said the same thing when asked why they do this - we simply can't comprehend their motivation and we should submit without resisting. Then the Catalyst is able to sum it up in a few sentences and it turns out that yeah, we can comprehend it, even if we don't agree with the solution. I don't think the dark energy concept is that great either but at least it makes a little more sense in terms of "a problem so complex that nobody can truly understand it."
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:43 |
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They kept telling us that they were planning to continue the series after the trilogy was over. How the hell are they going to do that with these endings?
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:44 |
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The Gate posted:I assumed it was simply your proximity to the whole Citadel. It's all Reaper tech, you're at the heart of it, and while you're not aware of it for a few minutes afterwards, you're right below the lead Reaper child thing. And TIM was wired up to be a beacon to control husks, who knows what the Reapers did to him after. Or maybe he just didn't know that Reaper tech as well as he thought (which is pretty much the entire point of TIM's story). Shepard and Anderson are just so beaten up, so worn down, that the Indoctrination is able to gently caress with them somewhat without entirely taking them over. That's what I assumed anyway. Anderson says something about the citadel feeling wrong and that it looks like the walls are moving so you're probably right
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:44 |
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Palleon posted:Plus for some reason you seem to be ignoring the fact that the Mass Effect universe has clearly and unquestionably established that Mass Relay Explosion = Death of Star system. Earth's Mass Relay blew up, therefore, the only reasonable conclusion is that Earth will be destroyed, they made that very clear at least three times in the game. I don't really understand this conclusion. The mass relay exploded in a different, less destructive way than in Arrival, simple enough. Everything else about the Crucible was totally unexplained and hand-wavey so I have no issue with this whatsoever. Sure they could have thrown a line of dialog specifying that but everything else about the ending was a clusterfuck anyway so I'm just assuming the relays shunted the explosion energy into kicking the green crucible wave that modifies the DNA of every organinc being in the galaxy out to the next relays in the chain. When you have ridiculous magic technology capable of something like that, you don't even have to worry about it being inconsistent because who the gently caress knows how it works anyway. I mean, you can blow up a nuclear bomb without it actually going off. It might not be pretty, but if it doesn't explode in just the right way you'll get an explosion orders of magnitude less powerful. just because a mass relay CAN explode in a way that destroys the a solar system doesn't mean it always does.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:47 |
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Palleon posted:http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html No. In Arrival, the batarian system was wiped out when you slammed a giant asteroid into the mass relay. At the end of the game, the Catalyst shoots some kind of energy beam into them. You don't think those might have different amounts of collateral damage?
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:47 |
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Lotish posted:They kept telling us that they were planning to continue the series after the trilogy was over.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:47 |
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Sober posted:Didn't they say Dragon Age was in the same universe as Mass Effect? The Reapers never expected to face off against the power of Blood Magic!
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:48 |
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Dominic White posted:Yes, just like how Endor was destroyed in the midst of the victory celebrations, right? That was because a wormhole opened up and sucked all the debris away. I WISH I was kidding.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:48 |
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NmareBfly posted:I mean, you can blow up a nuclear bomb without it actually going off. It might not be pretty, but if it doesn't explode in just the right way you'll get an explosion orders of magnitude less powerful. just because a mass relay CAN explode in a way that destroys the a solar system doesn't mean it always does.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:50 |
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Sober posted:Didn't they say Dragon Age was in the same universe as Mass Effect? I think they joked about Shepard playing Dragon Age in her down time, but that was it.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:50 |
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Palleon posted:http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html Oddly enough Control doesn't show the Relay getting actively destroyed (though it might've happened), unlike Destroy, for example.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:51 |
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Flatscan posted:He's controlling Anderson too, who has no Reaper implants. The Illusive Man was given reaper tech that allowed him to control straight up regular indoctrination, the same thing that controls Husks. It works on people too, as we've seen in all games forever. That's the horrific poo poo he was building.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:51 |
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MadJackMcJack posted:That was because a wormhole opened up and sucked all the debris away. I WISH I was kidding. That is loving gold, haha. "The Endor Holocaust was a theory put forward by Imperial propaganda agents after the Battle of Endor."
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:52 |
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CaptainCarrot posted:I think they joked about Shepard playing Dragon Age in her down time, but that was it.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:52 |
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Kainser posted:There was an ogre statue in Kasumis loyality mission in ME2 as well. But yeah, it's just a bad injoke. Also the head of the statue of liberty, which was amazing. I didn't mind the Ogre statue, I thought that was an okay reference.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:53 |
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Wow, people told me the ending was bad but I didn't believe them. I actually alt-tabbed and killed the game in the task manager instead of pick one of those choices which may have been a teensy overreaction but it was 6 AM I guess I'm wondering what the point of getting my green war bar all the way to 100% was when I get to choose from"Shepard dies haha" and Everybody dies haha"
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:56 |
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I will say this about the game, despite the endings being a big pile of crap, Blasto 6 is literally the best thing ever.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 17:59 |
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NmareBfly posted:I mean, you can blow up a nuclear bomb without it actually going off. It might not be pretty, but if it doesn't explode in just the right way you'll get an explosion orders of magnitude less powerful. just because a mass relay CAN explode in a way that destroys the a solar system doesn't mean it always does. There is a video that explicitly shows the effects of the shockwave on Earth, causing Reapers to up and leave, or die in place.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:01 |
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Did anyone else save the Rachni, then have them go bugnuts and take out the Alliance Corps of Engineers and kill all of them for no reason, with no apparent consequence? This was in like a little side pop-up, and I have no idea what it meant.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:01 |
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fivegears4reverse posted:There is a video that explicitly shows the effects of the shockwave on Earth, causing Reapers to up and leave, or die in place. And since they're magical shockwaves with different effects based on the color, and the white we saw in Arrival isn't an option, then there's no reason to think everything was destroyed.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:03 |
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i think my biggest pet peeve is that it lied to me. it succumbed to that wonderful "fable clause" remember when fable was first being developed? molyneux in his blabbermouth bullshit mode said of fable 1 that anything can be done, moral choices affect everything, a sort of "butterfly effect" where one choice here will gently caress things up there. in reality, it was a linear path with a few choices but in the end, it didn't matter what you did, the ending was the same - good or bad. you're given choices at the end of me3, and they all result in the same bullshit. i will admit that they had to write an ending that would fit whatever path you took, but the endings were so similar it didn't loving matter. the colors may be different, but it didn't matter. so, all three games, all your choices, all the time you put into it, didn't matter. come on, give me some resolution here. do what fallout 1/2 did. show me how my choices affected the galaxy. how are the turians? quarians? geth? are there a billion krogan now that i cured the genophage? where are the humans resettling? SHOW ME WHAT I DID. don't tell me i have choices when they don't matter. do what you have to to end the game, but don't lie to me. that being said, it doesn't mean it's not a good game. i am very much a journey-over-destination kind of guy. i had a fuckton of fun playing this game, but it was just a lovely, lovely was of ending a great series.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:03 |
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Drake Bate posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=booBmcFw_Lk I don't loving know, I heard this prior to launch and was expecting it. What the gently caress Bioware. It's like Walters got dumped by his wife and decided to take it out on the audience, Anno style.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:03 |
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fivegears4reverse posted:There is a video that explicitly shows the effects of the shockwave on Earth, causing Reapers to up and leave, or die in place. The problem comes from the fact that is the Catalyst shockwave. People are discussing the Relay shockwave, which is never shown because the last shot is the Relays exploding. As I said, I don't agree that is what was intended and not what anyone at Bioware is going to say actually happened. Bioware just should have meshed better with their Arrival DLC so players didn't get that impression. Man-Thing posted:Did anyone else save the Rachni, then have them go bugnuts and take out the Alliance Corps of Engineers and kill all of them for no reason, with no apparent consequence? This was in like a little side pop-up, and I have no idea what it meant. You saved some false Rachni. That happens if you killed the original in ME1.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:03 |
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Man-Thing posted:Did anyone else save the Rachni, then have them go bugnuts and take out the Alliance Corps of Engineers and kill all of them for no reason, with no apparent consequence? This was in like a little side pop-up, and I have no idea what it meant. It means you lost those war assets.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:04 |
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CaptainCarrot posted:And since they're magical shockwaves with different effects based on the color, and the white we saw in Arrival isn't an option, then there's no reason to think everything was destroyed. Sure there is, you can stay angrier for longer that way. ImpAtom posted:The problem comes from the fact that is the Catalyst shockwave. People are discussing the Relay shockwave, which is never shown because the last shot is the Relays exploding. Except that don't you think that if the relay blasts (which were far larger than the one occuring in Arrival, I mean holy poo poo you see that from outside of the milky way and they take up an absolutely huge portion of the galaxy with every blast) were actually destroying everything, they'd show at least a few of the stars in the galaxy joining in? The relay blowing in Arrival destroys the whole system, star included IIRC. These blasts were much larger. Watch the detonations of the relays as they envelop the ENTIRE GALAXY. If they were as destructive as people keep assuming they were, Grandpa shouldn't have even been around to say As You Wish to his grandson at the end. So, you can either chalk it up to FUCKBIOWQAREFOREVEREVRYONEDIESAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH, or space magic color coded blasts. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at Mar 11, 2012 around 18:11 |
| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:04 |
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Haledjian posted:Wow, people told me the ending was bad but I didn't believe them. I actually alt-tabbed and killed the game in the task manager instead of pick one of those choices which may have been a teensy overreaction but it was 6 AM I, on a whim, quit the game a spoiled the endings in couple of minutes. Now i can't make myself to play it because "it is about the journey" statement is bullshit when the journey ends up in the shitter. Also, why bother with scanning planets or even doing missions when i can just edit the .ini file (as suggested on the game thread) for a single asset having million billion rating since i was going for Destroy ending. Come to think of it, Mass Effect -technically- is a semi-clunky Gears of War style cover shooter with space magic which something i don't even like much. Without a story to follow or care, i don't feel the urge to play it. 
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:06 |
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Jarmel posted:I don't loving know, I heard this prior to launch and was expecting it. What the gently caress Bioware. Yes, Mac Walters cut a dialogue that was already recorded. Come on, man, this path only leads to dickishness and phone call threats.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:07 |
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ImpAtom posted:The problem comes from the fact that is the Catalyst shockwave. People are discussing the Relay shockwave, which is never shown because the last shot is the Relays exploding. That's why people had weird poo poo that didn't synch up. I was like "Uhhh, no, they helped build the crucible." Thanks for filling me in. About the relay shockwave, that happened because the sheer energy of the mass relay had to go somewhere in Arrival. At the end of Me3 it was used to power whatever field/color you chose, so no destruction.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:07 |
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Galewolf posted:I, on a whim, quit the game a spoiled the endings in couple of minutes. Now i can't make myself to play it because "it is about the journey" statement is bullshit when the journey ends up in the shitter. Also, why bother with scanning planets or even doing missions when i can just edit the .ini file (as suggested on the game thread) for a single asset having million billion rating since i was going for Destroy ending. The reason not to edit the assets is because I like to read the assets at the end, up on what they all are and what I've done to improve (or damage) throughout the game. But yeah if you don't like that then it's bullshit to bother as EMS is effectively worthless.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:08 |
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Pladdicus posted:The reason not to edit the assets is because I like to read the assets at the end, up on what they all are and what I've done to improve (or damage) throughout the game. Yeah the fluff is nice but i can't get over the fact that they ultimately mean jack poo poo. From what i understand assets don't even come up in specific places like Marines helping you to hold some chokpoint or Alliance Exploration Flotilla doing something heroic. It boils down to, as it seems, people biting it by the million in a cutscene while you and couple of nerds talk it out and push a button at the end.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:13 |
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Galewolf posted:Yeah the fluff is nice but i can't get over the fact that they ultimately mean jack poo poo. From what i understand assets don't even come up in specific places like Marines helping you to hold some chokpoint or Alliance Exploration Flotilla doing something heroic. It boils down to, as it seems, people biting it by the million in a cutscene while you and couple of nerds talk it out and push a button at the end. Can anyone confirm/deny the cutscene changes based on levels of EMS? I mean, they show certain big things popping in, the destiny acension for example, but otherwise?
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:19 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 15:39 |
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fivegears4reverse posted:These blasts were much larger. Watch the detonations of the relays as they envelop the ENTIRE GALAXY. If they were as destructive as people keep assuming they were, Grandpa shouldn't have even been around to say As You Wish to his grandson at the end. The shot of the Galaxy at the end I took to be artistic licence, because the 'blast waves' were propagating waaaay faster than the speed of light. I guess since it's an FTL device exploding that might make sense anyway, but gently caress it. They wanted a shorthand way to show the network collapsing and went with a picture of the galaxy because we've been staring at the galaxy map for three games so it's sort of iconic. I'm at the point that I'm hand waving everything that has to do with the Crucible because that was clearly the writer's intent in the first place. As I said before, with so little internal inconsistency as it is, it's basically impossible to extrapolate anything about the ending. The ending to ME3 is a singularity of awful -- the regular rules of plot and drama and physics are all superseded, making the results impossible to predict by any rational actor. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at Mar 11, 2012 around 18:23 |
| # ? Mar 11, 2012 18:19 |
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