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The Indoctrination theory is cool but it seems more like a desperate fan rationalization rather than an intended read by the writers, although I'm hard pressed to figure out what the writer(s) actually intended with starkid. Another thing that makes the indoctrination theory more elegant than the actual literal ending is that it seems kind of impossible for Shepard to have been around reapers and reaper tech for so long without becoming indoctrinated. And saying that he's strong-willed doesn't really cover it unless you want to give Shep some magic willpower that everyone else including Benezia and Saren lacked, but I think some sort of willpower one-upmanship cheapens the experience.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:38 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 14:24 |
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a pipe smoking dog posted:A final showdown with Harbinger would have been so much better than the loving starchild. I finished the game this morning and I think I'm just going to be pissed off all day now. I've been pissed off since yesterday afternoon. I am literally Upset about a video game and that fact is just making it worse.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:39 |
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Meiteron posted:Honestly? While the execution of the human Reaper left a lot to be desired I was pretty ok with the broad concept of the Reaper plan as explained in ME2 and would have been completely happy if that was the only explanation of their actions ever given. ME2 was a success in my mind just for getting the idea across. Then when they show up, it could be like that death scene in Meaning of Life. "He says his name is 'Harbinger' and he's here about the reaping?" "Oh! Well, we already have combines, but we could always use a hand. Lemme show you to the fiel-GRRAASSRRGFPPHHH!!!"
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:39 |
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Geostomp posted:Does anybody know why they bothered to build Harbinger up as the single biggest, oldest, and all around baddest Reaper in the fleet, then proceed to do absolutely nothing with it aside from a few lasers and the occasional name-drop? Why would you expect a trilogy that's been focused on these big, bad alien robots coming to destroy the galaxy to end with a direct confrontation with said big, bad alien robots? You're so entitled. Sigh. God, this drat game is just a punch in the gut for people like myself that have spent so much time in this trilogy since 2007.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:39 |
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Geostomp posted:Does anybody know why they bothered to build Harbinger up as the single biggest, oldest, and all around baddest Reaper in the fleet, then proceed to do absolutely nothing with it aside from a few lasers and the occasional name-drop?
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:42 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QpU4Vg-4V0 Mordin Solus, never forget.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:46 |
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DentArthurDent posted:Changing the ending at this point would be the biggest loving copout in the history of video games. Oh dear. Let's go point by point here. It wouldn't be a cop-out, it would be a meta-moment. By getting us all to believe it, the developers have (maybe) Indoctrinated all of us. Bam, that's all they need to say and they'll look halfway respectable again. I would absolutely have more respect for Bioware if they fixed the ending. It would show consideration for their fanbadse, an ability to respond well to constructive criticism (because not all of us have been just weeping in rage the whole time), and most importantly the ability to sack up and admit fault, something they've historically had difficulty with. And, as has been said, what about this ending WASN'T predictable. MY greatest fear going into this game was that they'd asspull some lame, last second twist in an ill-advised attempt to heighten the stakes (because the survival of all sentient life that is or ever will be wasn't high enough) and provide "  Depth". And look what we got. A generic god-like entity who calmly explains his bullshit plan and dictates the terms of the ending to you, in a series that has previously revolved around forging your own story, no less. Oh and hey, he's a poorly voice acted little kid. That's deep, man, and I sure haven't seen it in a dozen other fantasies before. And oh look, Shepard suddenly has to die because I guess he's a tragic hero now even though he's never been given a tragic flaw beyond one the player might choose to create for him. Makes sense, I guess, sure is deep. And it's kind of strange how he just blithely accepts this holographic little poo poo's nonsensical ramblings and the game won't let you say "You're stupid, Kid, show me the door so I can go find a better plan." There wouldn't even need to BE a better plan, but why can't I at least go look for one?Oh, and the Mass Relays being destroyed, THAT sure isn't a massive, stupid cliche either, is it? I mean, it's not like we've been having the magic go away as a means to add a touch of sadness to the ending since before the Goddamn Lord of the Rings or anything. Only, you know, those stories tended to make it an omnipresent and constantly discussed theme of the story rather than introducing it in the last 5 minutes and blindsiding the player and the cast with no ease in to the implications or anything. It's okay Shepard, just make a unilateral decision that utterly upsets the fabric of the universe (possibly destroying all advanced life in it, if we don't assume [because we sure as heck weren't told] that destroying the Relays via the Crucible is somehow different from chucking a space rock at them) on your own, no need to even let Hackett know or anything. The ending as it stands now, however "shocking" and " deep" it might be, is not remotely challenging. It's an asspull of cliches and ham-fisted Tragic Hero nonsense that shouldn't remotely apply to the average Shepard, to say nothing of the way it spits on your ability to make your own choices and disregards those choices you've already made. I would have the greatest respect for Bioware if they wanted to change it - it would show either an attempt at a  of a plot twist or enough concern for their fanbase to admit fault and repair the damage.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:56 |
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Funkz posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QpU4Vg-4V0 I hope we get a Legion and Friends version of the ending soon.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 16:56 |
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The kid does just essentially say "oh and by the way whatever you option you chose I'll blow up the mass relays" doesn't he. Why does it do that? Why does anything do anything? gently caress you kid I'm glad you blew up in that shuttle at the beginning of the game you little poo poo. So mad at video games right now.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:02 |
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a pipe smoking dog posted:The kid does just essentially say "oh and by the way whatever you option you chose I'll blow up the mass relays" doesn't he. Why does it do that? Why does anything do anything? gently caress you kid I'm glad you blew up in that shuttle at the beginning of the game you little poo poo.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:08 |
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Funkz posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QpU4Vg-4V0 That was 105.6% better than the ending.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:12 |
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Mahuum Aqoha posted:I hope we get a Legion and Friends version of the ending soon. 
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:12 |
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So I actually really liked the ending.  There really isn't a good way to tell the audience how the bulk of the crew got on without a tiresome montage and nobody wants to see Jacob again anyway. The synthesis ending is basically happy and I don't think Shepherd being absent really matters.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:15 |
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I would like to say that Tali getting drunk and catching her and Garrus making out in the battery were goddamn hilarious. "My mandible got stuck on her helmet!"
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:15 |
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Cakes posted:So I actually really liked the ending. The largest problem there is that I would love to know how the synthesis ending makes loving sense. It is theoretically the happiest one assuming you don't actually think about it or what it means in the slightest. "Everything is part organic/part synthetic now" means things like the leaves on the trees or *robots* being part-synthetic. It means every single thing in the entire galaxy is now a robot/organic hybrid. Edit: No matter where you are or who you are. Somehow Earthworms deep under the earth are part-synthetic. People on developing plants that haven't discovered space flight? Now they're all part robot. Your toaster? Dear god, I hope it didn't develop sentience and fleshy parts. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2012 around 17:21 |
| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:17 |
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Cakes posted:There really isn't a good way to tell the audience how the bulk of the crew got on without a tiresome montage and nobody wants to see Jacob again anyway. The synthesis ending is basically happy and I don't think Shepherd being absent really matters. It's a massive, decision driven trilogy with great characters. How could you not have a montage?
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:17 |
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I've just realised that the ending had made me forget how stupid and annoying kai lang was, that was my main objection to the game and then bioware took a dump on face.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:17 |
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Spiritus Nox posted:It wouldn't be a cop-out, it would be a meta-moment. By getting us all to believe it, the developers have (maybe) Indoctrinated all of us. Bam, that's all they need to say and they'll look halfway respectable again. Bam. Meta-moment.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:18 |
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In London, after I kill the wave of 5 brutes and a Harvester, I have to fight 5 Banshees, two at a time? Great. It helps that they die instantly to the reaper beam but baiting them in and out of the beam is a ridiculous task. They take too long to kill on Insanity even as a soldier with tons of damage upgrades. Brutes however go down in a clip like butter.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:18 |
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Cakes posted:So I actually really liked the ending. I want a tiresome montage. I want to know about Jeremy and his wife and kid okay.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:21 |
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Mike Gamble just twittered this quote:The team put in another late night yesterday. Itll be worth it. which gave me a bit of hope. But then i rememberd that the same dude said bullshit like quote:There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that… and quote:BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised. 
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:21 |
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messagemode1 posted:In London, after I kill the wave of 5 brutes and a Harvester, I have to fight 5 Banshees, two at a time? Great. It helps that they die instantly to the reaper beam but baiting them in and out of the beam is a ridiculous task. They take too long to kill on Insanity even as a soldier with tons of damage upgrades. Brutes however go down in a clip like butter. There's heavy weapons in the ruined storefronts around the edges of the area.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:22 |
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ImpAtom posted:The largest problem there is that I would love to know how the synthesis ending makes loving sense. It is theoretically the happiest one assuming you don't actually think about it or what it means in the slightest. "Everything is part organic/part synthetic now" means things like the leaves on the trees or *robots* being part-synthetic. It means every single thing in the entire galaxy is now a robot/organic hybrid. Robotic leaves sound ok to me! Also it means that Edi is part organic, so maybe she and Joker can have kids.  Spiritus Nox posted:It's a massive, decision driven trilogy with great characters. Now you can leave it to your imagination and have endless discussions like this one! Personally I think Tali gets drunk and chokes to death on her own vomit before getting back to the home planet.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:23 |
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I have concluded that Mass Defect made the whole series worth while. You think you'll get tired of the fart sounds, but you don't. You really don't.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:25 |
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messagemode1 posted:In London, after I kill the wave of 5 brutes and a Harvester, I have to fight 5 Banshees, two at a time? Great. It helps that they die instantly to the reaper beam but baiting them in and out of the beam is a ridiculous task. They take too long to kill on Insanity even as a soldier with tons of damage upgrades. Brutes however go down in a clip like butter. Haha I just did that part and I didn't even know about the beam, or the heavy weapons. I kept dying on the 3rd or 4th Banshee until I eventually got lucky and they decided they didn't want to use their melee 1 shot move on me and I biotic charged about 50 times until they died. Spent a loving hour trying that over and over ugggh.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:26 |
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100 Years in Iraq posted:I would like to say that Tali getting drunk and catching her and Garrus making out in the battery were goddamn hilarious. "My mandible got stuck on her helmet!" Wait but doesn't she have her mask on? How are they making out?
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:30 |
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So I know the indoctrination theory is pretty much bunk but it does raise a good point. Starchild does actually lie to you. He states that if you choose the destroy ending the reapers, geth and you will all be wiped out. Except that's bull because you can actually survive the destroy ending. Which implies the geth probably are doing fine or at least alive in some respects. Of course we will never know because the ending is pretty much 99% speculation with no actual closure or substance but at least it got us talking like Bioware wanted. 
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:30 |
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Cakes posted:Robotic leaves sound ok to me! Also it means that Edi is part organic, so maybe she and Joker can have kids. And what about the Geth? Ever think about how synthesis is going to affect them? They're software, and have never been bound to one body before. Then synthesis comes along and makes them organic, so they can't be just software anymore. Now all the geth programs are trapped in whatever body they were in before the green wave of horror. You hosed them over.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:31 |
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Doctor Doctor posted:Wait but doesn't she have her mask on? How are they making out? Pretty sure they actually weren't, the whole "My mandible got stuck!" was just a flimsy excuse to explain why they were intimately close with each other.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:32 |
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Internet Kraken posted:And what about the Geth? Ever think about how synthesis is going to affect them? They're software, and have never been bound to one body before. Then synthesis comes along and makes them organic, so they can't be just software anymore. Now all the geth programs are trapped in whatever body they were in before the green wave of horror. You hosed them over. Imagine the poor Yahg. Sitting there on their planet, developing okay, suddenly POOF they are robots and everything around them is robots. They barely could handle meeting the Council, imagine how they respond to everything is robots!
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:34 |
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You know what I found profoundly depressing? Given what we know about the Reapers only harvesting advanced civilizations,all the civilizations would have been better off if they never reached for the stars. The whole freaking story is now a parable on how we shouldn't dare to dream the impossible and just be happy with what we have. 
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:35 |
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Internet Kraken posted:And what about the Geth? Ever think about how synthesis is going to affect them? They're software, and have never been bound to one body before. Then synthesis comes along and makes them organic, so they can't be just software anymore. Now all the geth programs are trapped in whatever body they were in before the green wave of horror. You hosed them over. Well they're alive and get to live on an idyllic garden world with new superbestfriends the Quarians. They'll never be thought of as objects again by anyone. I'm sure having a borg-hivemind was fun, but now they can just talk to each other. I hope the Quarians have telephones.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:37 |
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Rissei posted:You know what I found profoundly depressing? Fitting, I suppose, considering the ending all but tells you "all those other times you did the impossible weren't good enough. Getting a happy ending here is double-plus unpossible, so shut up and take your tragedy. It's like a kid running a bad roleplay.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:37 |
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Rissei posted:You know what I found profoundly depressing? Actually reaching the stars is just fine. It's connecting your Stargates to citadel controlled space which fucks you.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:37 |
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Rissei posted:You know what I found profoundly depressing? Before the last ten minutes of the series, it seemed like the exact opposite lesson. Shepard was leading the galaxy to finally break through the oppression of the Reapers and move on to a true future. Then one writer decided that was too happy or wasn't "deep" enough and we got the starchild telling us that we really can't do anything more while Shepard blindly takes everything it says at face value. That's what really pisses me off. I could take the Starchild's horrific reasoning as just being more Reaper-class arrogant rambling, but watching Shepard lie down like a dog and agree with it's asinine arguments is just insulting after everything s/he's been through. Geostomp fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2012 around 17:44 |
| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:40 |
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ImpAtom posted:The largest problem there is that I would love to know how the synthesis ending makes loving sense. It is theoretically the happiest one assuming you don't actually think about it or what it means in the slightest. "Everything is part organic/part synthetic now" means things like the leaves on the trees or *robots* being part-synthetic. It means every single thing in the entire galaxy is now a robot/organic hybrid. Yeah, I bet the Yahg were freaking the gently caress out. Entirely leaving alone how it worked or why or how the capability to do something like that in the universe of the story is ever implied anywhere, even in the background text, up till that point - Nothing actually changed! The differences were entirely cosmetic, and what was supposed to be (and could have been) a bold sci-fi conceptual statement became a palate swap and the implication that a secondary comic relief character and a sexy robot populate a planet like Adam and Eve. When I picked that ending I was expecting something like the ending of Star Trek 1, where the guy and his robot girlfriend merge with the big space machine and vanish into a new mode of existence to go off and have adventures. I wanted to see the actual transcendence and evolution that ending promised, and that Now Things are Going to be Different, but it was still just a few people clinging to existence in the middle of nowhere - Essentially the apocalypse. They had an opportunity to fill that ending with a sense of wonder and expanded perspective and hope for the future (did you notice all those background galaxies in the main map?) but they instead showed an amazing new world of poo poo Under a Black Light. Frogisis fucked around with this message at Mar 17, 2012 around 17:54 |
| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:43 |
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Geostomp posted:Before the last ten minutes of the series, it seemed like the exact opposite lesson. Shepard was leading the galaxy to finally break through the oppression of the Reapers and move on to a true future. I actually turned around and tried to shoot the kid when making my way to the Destroy ending today, just to make sure there wasn't an easter egg real ending everyone else missed where you kill the star kid and everything is great. Destroy is certainly the next best thing though. Also I took Garrus and Tali with me to the final mission, yet they both got off the Normandy with Joker?? What?
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:44 |
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Cakes posted:Well they're alive and get to live on an idyllic garden world with new superbestfriends the Quarians. They'll never be thought of as objects again by anyone. I'm sure having a borg-hivemind was fun, but now they can just talk to each other. I hope the Quarians have telephones. Yeah, gently caress unique life or letting stuff evolve on its own! The geth are just like everyone else now, even though they've never wanted be and goes directly against what they were fighting for; the right to determine their own future. Everything is just fine  Synthesis is a terrible ending once you put an ounce of thought into it.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:46 |
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Doctor Doctor posted:Wait but doesn't she have her mask on? How are they making out? Emergency Induction Port 
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:50 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 14:24 |
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Internet Kraken posted:Yeah, gently caress unique life or letting stuff evolve on its own! The geth are just like everyone else now, even though they've never wanted be and goes directly against what they were fighting for; the right to determine their own future. Everything is just fine He's trolling you. About to make the final push to the ending in my game. I can scarcely contain my excitement.
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| # ? Mar 17, 2012 17:51 |
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