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Vindicator posted:I don't know, there are so many setpieces that were interesting and stuff, but like, as soon as Reapers get involved the horror just seems nonexistent. You should be clawing like a wounded animal, walls closing in around you... when in the game did it really ever feel like the whole galaxy was on the loving line? Funnily enough, I thought the ending handled this well! Up until the worthless Illusive Man interaction and whatever followed of course. I mean Harbinger lands and proceeds to obliterate you! That's how it should be! And before that, you are completely overwhelmed by their zombie hoards. They just swarm you! If it wasn't for the saving power of cutscenes, my Shepard would have never loving made it to the finale, because there sure as gently caress was still a banshee and god knows how many other troops left when I raced to hit the button. That entire sequence was ridiculously fun chaos. Also I think Tuchanka manages it well. Your horrible plan is horrible and gets pretty much everyone involved in it killed except for the Important People.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:13 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 04:56 |
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Nichael posted:Over what span of time does ME3 take place? I don't think the Reapers are sieging Earth for months. I can't imagine something the size of the macguff-I mean crucible-took less than months to build.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:13 |
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Yare posted:Legitimate criticisms about the ending aside... No! Video games are their own medium. Ever hear that the book is always better than the movie? That's often held to be true, because books hold more detail. It's not fair to compare movies or games to books, because books cheat. Books convey huge amounts of information as part of the way we interact with them. Movies and games don't. Also, while most novels don't explain in precise detail what every character does twenty years after the story ends, they usually leave prominent characters in a place where we can reasonably infer what happens to them. Part of the entirely logical complaint with Mass Effect 3's ending is that through a variety of means, including the game itself, and the paratext of the codex and other world building materials, the end we saw essentially condemns all of the characters we've come to know to extinction, including humanity. The text of the game gives us no reason to believe otherwise. I don't need to know the name of the bar Garrus opens. I don't even want a slideshow telling me in vague terms what he did after the story ends. I just want to know if he's alive or dead. The same for the other characters. I want to know whether or not the people on the Citadel survived somehow or they've all been ground into goo or made into husks. I want the story to end, not just stop at a certain point without conveying sufficient information to draw conclusions about the fates of the secondary characters, which is what happens at the end of this game right now. Finally, this game was sold on the promise that the ending would be tailored to a long chain of decisions stretching back to the first game in the trilogy. It does not deliver on that promise. We were baited and switched. Finally, I'd like to comment on your choice of words and your attitudes. It is terribly presumptuous of you to claim that, by dint of having an opinion about video games, I am not a reader. I am indeed a reader and my consumption of literature has created in me certain expectations of coherency and narrative structure; the failure on the part of Bioware to deliver those at the conclusion of their story is the root of my objection to this work, not a "demand for a mary sue (sic) type character". I also doubt your authority to discern whether others are, as you put it, readers or not, because you have the typing and writing skills of a five year old and you elected to include in your missive both a Reddit meme and a (commonly misapplied) term that originated in "fandom" and is commonly used as a criticism by thundering morons like you to to show how cool and detached you are so no one will suspect that you are a nerd who plays video games and posts about them on the Internet. I'd like to say goodbye by expressing my wish that you will sit in an unfortunately upturned pencil, which in turn will slide up your anus, perforate your colon, and result in expensive and embarrassing surgery. It will be the closest you ever come to writing something intelligent. Also, gently caress you. Thulsa Doom fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2012 around 03:16 |
| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:13 |
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Vindicator posted:It's kind of shocking how quickly the Reapers went from incomprehensible overbeings who raze the galaxy flat with cold calculating precision for a terrifyingly unknown purpose, to a bunch of space-patsies doing the bidding of some random space-ghost-wizard. A lot of it I really felt the whole other way around. Sovereign was something a fleet could fight, with heavy losses, even surprised. Its nature was beyond and unthinkable, its age and experience immense, but the true threat was not individual omnipotence but the fact that there was a whole race. Thousands more, enough to overrun the galaxy. This was driven home by the end of ME2, and continued into ME3 where the journal and email were full of reports about how the Turian fleet was taking out some of the 2km Reaper capital ships, but not nearly enough: explicitly, it took four dreadnoughts to reliably face one full sized Reaper with safe hope of victory. The overall impression was that compared to the Prothean era, this cycle's victories )of the first two games) had turned a slow huntdown to extinction with no centralized resistance into one where civilization was at least able to bloody their unstoppable destroyers' noses even if the hail mary pass of the Crucible failed. And it worked right through the final assault on Earth, where Sword and Hammer were able to get you where you needed to go, but only in the cost of incredible losses: the combined might of the galaxy is still not a force that can stop the Reapers, but one that can score wounds and clear a path. In the end, finally, you get into their control system with a superweapon designed by hundreds of civilizations over millions of years, and put an end to it one way or the other. The only part that felt weirdly changed to me on Reaper capabilities was on Rannoch, where again there was a chance to face one destroyer class Reaper, but this time a whole massed fleet was there to provide fire support. Even with jamming to make precision difficult it seemed weird that the only way for a whole fleet to pick off one destroyer class basically immobile on the ground was for Shepard to get in close and paint it with a targeting laser. But eh, that was to fit a boss fight against a Reaper directly, and I'm okay with that.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:13 |
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Nichael posted:Over what span of time does ME3 take place? I don't think the Reapers are sieging Earth for months. Near the end, when Shepard and crew come back to the wreckage of Earth, a conversation occurs where Shepard mentions that it's only been about three months since they retreated when the Reapers began their attack.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:13 |
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Nail Rat posted:I gotta say, if it takes the reapers months to siege Earth without Earth having a fleet supporting it, and they don't immediately go to the citadel to strike at the heart of galactic civilization at the start, they're pretty lovely at their job of galaxy cleansing. Well, they've got a beef with humans. And since the Citadel won't teleport them all into the galaxy, why not hit all the homeworlds instead, Earth being first. It's more of a Plan B thing: poo poo, we can't hit the center of galactic government so gently caress it, we'll hit their major population centers and homeworlds. Then mop up and fix that drat Citadel. Power cord must be unplugged.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:13 |
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What gets me the most is how little Shepard has to do with anything in the ending. He was the first one to see the threat, the collectors knew him by name and would have their head dude personally fight you. And when you make it to the end your impact on the entire galaxy which you saved once before and united against oncoming darkness is.... Nothing. There are 3 choices, there have always been 3 choices. Why not just send an accountant up to activate the crucible, you have nothing to do with anything, you are just commander Shepard.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:14 |
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Dan Didio posted:They're systematically targeting population centres and areas of heavy industrialization. Anderson explains that the reason why people are still alive is because they're constantly moving outside of those areas. I'm just saying, it's taking a *long loving time.* If the Crucible took as long to make as I'm guessing it did, the reapers would be at this for a few centuries to completely eradicate life in the galaxy. In ME1 I was under the impression it was fast. quote:It's more of a Plan B thing: poo poo, we can't hit the center of galactic government so gently caress it, we'll hit their major population centers and homeworlds. Then mop up and fix that drat Citadel. Power cord must be unplugged. I mean, they can send one to the Quarian homeworld, but they can't tell a few to go take out the nerve center of galactic civilization in the meantime?
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:15 |
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Nail Rat posted:I'm just saying, it's taking a *long loving time.* If the Crucible took as long to make as I'm guessing it did, the reapers would be at this for a few centuries to completely eradicate life in the galaxy. In ME1 I was under the impression it was fast. It's pretty clearly stated in all of the games that a Cycle, like the actual extermination part of it when it hits, can take hundreds of years to fully play out. The Reapers are slow and methodical. Probably the only reason they branch out so much and move as quickly as they do in 3 is because of the delays they've experienced up to that point.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:17 |
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Nail Rat posted:I mean, they can send one to the Quarian homeworld, but they can't tell a few to go take out the nerve center of galactic civilization in the meantime? The Turians had a fleet stationed around the Citadel to protect it. It simply wasn't a priority, particularly since the Citadel is just the seat of civilian government--there aren't any military assets bound up in it.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:18 |
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Thwomp posted:Well, they've got a beef with humans. And since the Citadel won't teleport them all into the galaxy, why not hit all the homeworlds instead, Earth being first. Oh that reminds me. WHY DO THEY BRING THE CITADEL TO EARTH. HOW DO THEY DO IT? WHY DOES EVERYONE ACT LIKE THIS ISNT A BIG DEAL? They could have just gone to the citadel and taken it over. Anytime they want. Like what they were supposed to do. Instead they wait until you need it to be at Earth, and bring it there for you? What the gently caress. Why is there a beacon linking it to Earth? What are they doing. If it's about harvesting, why didn't they bring the Citadel to the Batarian planet?
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:19 |
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They're also experiencing much more pronounced, coordinated, and strenuous resistance. Part of their strategy was preventing any long range travel or communication, so they could concentrate their efforts on a few systems without worrying about reinforcements arriving, and take advantage of the general chaos resulting from the galactic economy collapsing.kater posted:Oh that reminds me. WHY DO THEY BRING THE CITADEL TO EARTH. HOW DO THEY DO IT? WHY DOES EVERYONE ACT LIKE THIS ISNT A BIG DEAL? They could have just gone to the citadel and taken it over. Anytime they want. Like what they were supposed to do. Instead they wait until you need it to be at Earth, and bring it there for you? What the gently caress. The Citadel is a giant mass relay. The Reapers, who invented or at least are more familiar with the technology of the relays than anyone else, may have a way of using a relay to jump itself from one point to another, or jump one relay through another relay. It would be nice, as you said, if everyone wasn't so blase about it, though. Thulsa Doom fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2012 around 03:22 |
| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:19 |
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I honestly wonder how different the fan reaction would be if it was a random soldier that woke up, saw Shepard's dead body, and then walked into the beam. Things would have to change for the whole Anderson chitchat of course. But the TIM thing could largely stay intact with the random soldier being all "Shepard wouldn't give in so I won't either!" rah rah rah stuff. Accepting the starchild's three choices would somewhat make more sense then, since the random soldier isn't Shepard and hasn't seen all the things Shepard has. And the Normandy ship seen fleeing Earth would tiny bit more sense they know Shepard is dead and it's time to go live to fight another day. Even though Hackett has orders to fight to the death, which I think was given to *everyone* so that strikes me odd Normandy left.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:20 |
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Nail Rat posted:I'm just saying, it's taking a *long loving time.* If the Crucible took as long to make as I'm guessing it did, the reapers would be at this for a few centuries to completely eradicate life in the galaxy. In ME1 I was under the impression it was fast. ME1 made it explicit that it was a long, slow process, with whole populations indoctrinated and pulled into the war against the surviving Protheans. The refuge on Ilos was undergoing a slow failure over that whole time, and by the time the actual harvesting had passed, too few were alive in their pods to continue the race. It really makes sense anyway for the Reapers to systematically smash what can hurt them first, before really worrying about people lurking in the hills. They have forever. Especially immobile threats, like industrial centers or that planetwide particle accelerator which could pose a credible danger to them.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:20 |
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Liara mentions she thinks it'd take about a century. But then you also get info that says likely economic collapse within a year. Considering they hit pretty much everywhere, any ships and whatnot they take out are likely never going to be replaced.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:21 |
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Nail Rat posted:I'm just saying, it's taking a *long loving time.* If the Crucible took as long to make as I'm guessing it did, the reapers would be at this for a few centuries to completely eradicate life in the galaxy. In ME1 I was under the impression it was fast. It's actually explicitly stated in ME1 that it took centuries, plural, for the Reapers to win against the Protheans. In addition, their actions in ME3 - both on-screen and in the fluff and background material - reveal that they're not particularly good at waging conventional warfare. Even with their ridiculously massive numbers advantage and extreme technological superiority they're still either pushed back entirely or stopped cold time and again, and the turians in particular were apparently killing Sovereign-class Reapers by the dozen before Shep even shows up, purely because they're better at tactics and strategy than the Reapers and were able to use that to overcome their disadvantages. That's actually the whole reason for the Citadel; they need to be able to decapitate the galactic government and shut off the mass relays in order to be able to carry out the cycle effectively. If someone is able to effectively fight back it throws them for a loop. Why didn't they just attack the Citadel outright earlier on in the game? Uh....good question.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:22 |
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Yeah, it takes a while. But in the end they root out even the smallest shack in the hills, and it's a good thing too. You never know when some slack-jawed hillbilly might accidentally brew himself a fully sentient AI in his moonshine distillery, and subsequently have an apocalyptic war with it.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:23 |
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ImpAtom posted:Really? You can't think of one? Counterpoint: One of the complaints about that property (maybe just the movie, but I think I've heard it about the books, too) is that it suffers from ending fatigue. It just keeps going, telling us all about what happened after Sauron is dead. There's a reason why the Scouring Of the Shire isn't in the movies, for that same reason. Thwomp posted:It's more like X is loving retarded and scared of Y while Y doesn't get it. X attacks Y, Y defends self and kicks X out. Once X gets over how loving dumb their being, Y gladly lets them back into the apartment. Yes, but I would argue that you can't just assume that every Quarian is suddenly going to "get over how loving dumb they are being" and not gently caress things up. How long is it going to be until the Quarians treat the Geth that are helping them as the Servants Of The People they once were? My assumption: not goddamned long. Mr. Pumroy posted:The inevitability of organic/synthetic conflict is something we have to take on faith as being true because a previously unknown intelligence controlling the Reapers tells us this is true without providing any corroborating evidence. How is Shep's argument(s) and experience(s) even remotely valid, though, given what a limited sample size he's working on? Pointing to the Geth and Quarians making peace as evidence of nothing. No corroborating evidence? The Reapers are evidence enough. No problems between organics and synthetics, no need for the Reapers to grow by 1(?) each 50,000 year cycle.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:23 |
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Ah, I haven't played ME1 since 2007 so I guess I misremembered. 2 didn't mention it that I've seen on a recent playthrough, and in 3 I've avoided talking to Liara where possible because I think she's a horribly boring character and I prefer to pretend the Asari race doesn't exist. So there's one place it was consistent, at least, so consider that complaint withdrawn. The ending was still poo poo, and I say that as someone who reads at least a book a week(gently caress you dude who said that).
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:24 |
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Dan Didio posted:It's pretty clearly stated in all of the games that a Cycle, like the actual extermination part of it when it hits, can take hundreds of years to fully play out. The Reapers are slow and methodical. Probably the only reason they branch out so much and move as quickly as they do in 3 is because of the delays they've experienced up to that point. That too. This cycle is one that's gone very not according to plan, and in particular all their forward scouts (Sovereign, the Collectors, the Keepers, etc.) that normally gave them intelligence about the civilizations being harvested had been smashed. Even before ME3 they lost one of their full Reapers. If most species harvested aren't even suitable to make one of those, it stands to reason that in most cycles they have few, if any losses. They're in a messy cleanup mode even as ME3 starts, if still one they have the raw force to do.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:24 |
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Cleatcleat posted:I honestly wonder how different the fan reaction would be if it was a random soldier that woke up, saw Shepard's dead body, and then walked into the beam. Things would have to change for the whole Anderson chitchat of course. But the TIM thing could largely stay intact with the random soldier being all "Shepard wouldn't give in so I won't either!" rah rah rah stuff. Accepting the starchild's three choices would somewhat make more sense then, since the random soldier isn't Shepard and hasn't seen all the things Shepard has. And the Normandy ship seen fleeing Earth would tiny bit more sense they know Shepard is dead and it's time to go live to fight another day. Even though Hackett has orders to fight to the death, which I think was given to *everyone* so that strikes me odd Normandy left. How about this for an ending: Shepard makes the final push, dies in Harbinger's beam, and we cut to a cinematic of the ground team rushing the beam. If you have enough assets, they make it, if not, game over. This is followed by a series of clips stitched together into an ending, showing the effects of your choices as visuals: Krogan taking down husks or the same position being overwhelmed, the fleet succeeding or failing, and so on and so forth. The entire game is an ending- why does there have to be a Dramatic Choice in the last five minutes? All the choices have already been made. Maybe if you played a really high scoring game, after it's all over you wake up in the hospital with your LI, but you have to earn it.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:24 |
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RentACop posted:Liara mentions she thinks it'd take about a century. But then you also get info that says likely economic collapse within a year. Considering they hit pretty much everywhere, any ships and whatnot they take out are likely never going to be replaced. True, but people will be willing to get creative and work for free when it's all sentient life on the line, and Necessity is the mother of Invention. People would pull crazy poo poo trying to fight/hide/survive until the bitter end. Wouldn't save them, if the millitaries and hail-marys had all failed, but it would delay things quite a bit. The Reapers just don't give a gently caress. Cthulu's hungry, he doesn't care if his meal takes 10 years or a thousand. Only he's taking orders from a goddamn Starchild.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:26 |
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MisterBibs posted:The only way to keep the Reapers as "incomprehensible manifestation of Doom let loose upon the galaxy" is to never bring them up again, ever. Lovecraftian Horror Weakness 1: The more you bring something up, the more you inevitably bring up more detail about them, and if the thing is only scary because you don't know anything, it will inevitably lose all fear. I don't think that was necessarily the problem with Mass Effect 3. I see it as this: In ME1, Sovereign turns out to be some ridiculously powerful entity that it takes the entire military of the galaxy to fight. Even then, they barely win. In ME2, Harbinger never even fights directly, but even his minions are pretty drat powerful. At this point, it's been established that Reapers are ludicrously powerful, nearly impossible to kill, and more or less can do what they want. ME3 rolls around, and there's thousands of Reapers, and most of the military kind of holds their own. The expectation up to that point is that thousands of reapers would have annihilated the militaries almost instantly, instead of turning into stupid GI Joe gun battles with lots of flashing lights and explosions. At that point it lost the 'epic space tale' feel and became yet another 'gritty military flick with dirty dirt-covered marines being plucky underdogs'. It completely neutered the idea of the Reapers, and made them into GI Joe villains.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:28 |
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MisterBibs posted:Yes, but I would argue that you can't just assume that every Quarian is suddenly going to "get over how loving dumb they are being" and not gently caress things up. How long is it going to be until the Quarians treat the Geth that are helping them as the Servants Of The People they once were? The entire Quarian race was faced with imminent annihilation. By backing them down from that precipice and with the Geth actively aiding the Quarians in adapting to life on the homeworld again, The Quarians are back on Rannoch. Remember, this is a multi-generational dream which is being realized with the active aid of their "mortal" enemies. I going to go out on a limb and say that'll change attitudes. Thwomp fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2012 around 03:33 |
| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:30 |
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Goreld posted:
I agree with this completely, but also see how them being as powerful as they were in ME1 and then arriving en masse in ME3 wouldn't have made for a game you could really play, at least not in a shooter sense. It's a concept better suited to a movie or book, but they wrote a check they couldn't cash and it feels a little hollow even though I know it wouldn't make for a fun shooter.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:31 |
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Nail Rat posted:Ah, I haven't played ME1 since 2007 so I guess I misremembered. 2 didn't mention it that I've seen on a recent playthrough, and in 3 I've avoided talking to Liara where possible because I think she's a horribly boring character and I prefer to pretend the Asari race doesn't exist. You know, what the hell was the deal with Liara and giving you her memories? I was expecting to see a little blue kid running around digging in the dirt for Prothean relics, instead it was like "OH GOD I CAN SEE FOREVER". Really weird.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:31 |
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MisterBibs posted:Counterpoint: One of the complaints about that property (maybe just the movie, but I think I've heard it about the books, too) is that it suffers from ending fatigue. It just keeps going, telling us all about what happened after Sauron is dead. There's a reason why the Scouring Of the Shire isn't in the movies, for that same reason. I've never heard that complaint about the books, to be honest. Much of the content is optional, appendixes and such located long after the Scouring of the Shire. And arguing that the Scouring of the Shire doesn't belong in the story is missing a huge chunk of what it is about. It doesn't belong in the movie because the movie is something else but the Scouring is necessary for the end of the story. quote:No corroborating evidence? The Reapers are evidence enough. No problems between organics and synthetics, no need for the Reapers to grow by 1(?) each 50,000 year cycle.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:32 |
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Goreld posted:I don't think that was necessarily the problem with Mass Effect 3. I could see it working with something like the Reaper fleet is coming, but the smaller less devastating Reapers are faster than the big lumbering fuckoff ones, so you spend the whole game trying to fight off a few light Reapers while desperately searching the galaxy for a way to stop the whole fleet, because if the big ones get here, it's game over. But nope, big fuckoff Reaper lands like a mile away from Shepard five minutes into the game and you get away alright, so no threat or anything.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:33 |
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Ambiguatron posted:How about this for an ending: Shepard makes the final push, dies in Harbinger's beam, and we cut to a cinematic of the ground team rushing the beam. If you have enough assets, they make it, if not, game over. This is followed by a series of clips stitched together into an ending, showing the effects of your choices as visuals: Krogan taking down husks or the same position being overwhelmed, the fleet succeeding or failing, and so on and so forth. The entire game is an ending- why does there have to be a Dramatic Choice in the last five minutes? All the choices have already been made. Hell they shoud skip all the battle stuff. After shepard is hit by the beam, just end the game there. Your war assets? You get one of two endings. High assets it's Shepard's funeral and the different leaders and squad mates and various npc's ya meet can say a line or two about the great commander Shepard. Low assets? A yahg picks up Liara's beacon and wonder what the hell a reaper is and why a tiny, soft pink skin is so drat important. (lots of speculation for everyone)
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:33 |
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Ambiguatron posted:Also, while most novels don't explain in precise detail what every character does twenty years after the story ends, they usually leave prominent characters in a place where we can reasonably infer what happens to them. Also, in the case of Lord of the Rings, there is a ton about what's happening after they destroy the ring and then Tolkien goes out and puts more information in the Appendix. And Lord of the Rings was a tale that spanned 3 Volumes/6 Physical Books. Mass Effect spans 3 games so I think it should get an epilogue as well. MisterBibs posted:Counterpoint: One of the complaints about that property (maybe just the movie, but I think I've heard it about the books, too) is that it suffers from ending fatigue. It just keeps going, telling us all about what happened after Sauron is dead. There's a reason why the Scouring Of the Shire isn't in the movies, for that same reason. The reason it's not in the movies is cause the movies are too freaking long already and they aren't needed in the movie. They skipped over all that Tom Bombadil stuff too. The Lord of the Rings is a property that spanned a ton of pages already. I always saw it as a nice epilogue that ties up all the other loose ends that were still left. Plus, Tolkien could go on and on, so he threw in the other stuff in the Appendix. I thought it was fine in the Lord of the Rings since it was already such a long epic novel. Personally think Mass Effect fits that epic nature (maybe more akin to the movies than the Lord of the Rings novel).
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:33 |
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So the whole information archive that Liara made in case you fail is never brought up again after she shows it off that one time? That's kind of lame, I would have liked the epilogue with the grandpa better if he was telling the story through that device.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:33 |
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Nail Rat posted:I agree with this completely, but also see how them being as powerful as they were in ME1 and then arriving en masse in ME3 wouldn't have made for a game you could really play, at least not in a shooter sense. It's a concept better suited to a movie or book, but they wrote a check they couldn't cash and it feels a little hollow even though I know it wouldn't make for a fun shooter. To be fair, whenever a full Reaper shows up someone gets their poo poo kicked in, and even destroyers seriosuly gently caress things up. Hell, do we ever even see a Sovereign-class get destroyed? I can't think of a single instance off the top of my head. You hear about a few in the Codex, but even there it says that the fleets responsible had to cook up brilliant strategies to achieve it and got swamped and chewed up for their trouble.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:33 |
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Regarding Lord of the Rings, I don't know how the story would change if Bioware wrote it. I do know that people would be ranting about what bullshit it is that destroying the One Ring also takes away the power of the other rings (how was that one post a few dozen pages back phrased? 'No fair destroying the title of the setting in the ending?') Others would talk about how it would be better to let the world fall into darkness than to let it go on without elves and wizards. Still others would complain that no one else would end a trilogy like that with no room for a sequel. Sure, there would be people complaining about how long the denouement took too, but the more compelling arguments would be hard to find under a whole lot of arguments about balrog wings, why eagles didn't solve it earlier, and why every single thing made no sense and how Bioware is terrible at fantasy.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:34 |
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Did they ever explain how the Reapers even arrived without any sort of relay? If so, doesn't that completely defeat the plot of ME1 and ME2 because the Reapers could easily reach the galaxy?
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:35 |
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TheJoker138 posted:You literally hand wave all the other criticism aside in the first sentence of this though, so you clearly just wanted to make a post about "STUPID NERDS LOL" and not any actual point. Get the gently caress out. Acknowledgement is hand-waving? Don't get so emotionally invested in this, it's making you say strange things. If it makes you feel better, they do show you the epilogue for all surviving characters at the end of the game.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:35 |
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Goreld posted:I don't think that was necessarily the problem with Mass Effect 3. They're established as possible to kill pretty consistently before 3. You find a dead Reaper in ME2. You kill a baby Reaper on foot in ME2, for that matter. Some planet descriptions feature hints of defeated Reapers. It's always been the case that, yeah, with massive combination of arms and daring tactics, you might be able to edge it out against one Reaper, but they just have force of numbers and overwhelming technological advantages. Plus the events of ME1 and 2 stack the deck against the Reapers some from the events of their usual harvest: the weapon and ship upgrades developed from the corpse of Sovereign are essentially miniaturised Reaper gear, so that Turian fleet with Thanix cannons in all its warships is fighting at a massive advantage vs. the opposition the Reapers usually face. Normally they have strict control over the exact technology their target races have access to - here Sovereign's defeat by Shepard means all the galaxy's major militaries are using their own, intentionally restricted tech against them.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:36 |
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Thwomp posted:The entire Quarian race was faced with imminent annihilation. By backing them down from that precipice and with the Geth actively aiding the Quarians in adapting to life on the homeworld again, The Quarians are back on Rannoch. Don't forget that it was just the rear end in a top hat admirals' decision, and most of the Quarians didn't actually want to go to war.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:36 |
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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ThePutty posted:Did they ever explain how the Reapers even arrived without any sort of relay? If so, doesn't that completely defeat the plot of ME1 and ME2 because the Reapers could easily reach the galaxy? They could still travel at sublight speed; the point is that if weren't for your actions in ME1, Sovereign would've brought the entire fleet of every Reaper into the heart of galactic civilization. Stopping him gives the rest of the galaxy time to prepare for their invasion.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:37 |
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Killer robot posted:Regarding Lord of the Rings, I don't know how the story would change if Bioware wrote it. I do know that people would be ranting about what bullshit it is that destroying the One Ring also takes away the power of the other rings (how was that one post a few dozen pages back phrased? 'No fair destroying the title of the setting in the ending?') Others would talk about how it would be better to let the world fall into darkness than to let it go on without elves and wizards. Still others would complain that no one else would end a trilogy like that with no room for a sequel. Sure, there would be people complaining about how long the denouement took too, but the more compelling arguments would be hard to find under a whole lot of arguments about balrog wings, why eagles didn't solve it earlier, and why every single thing made no sense and how Bioware is terrible at fantasy. Bad analogy, the combined armies of Middle Earth weren't stranded in Mordor. Also, magic was fading anyway and had been since the Valar sealed the western lands from the world. Destroying the One Ring didn't make the elves and wizards leave, that ship had sailed, it was just whether they were going to leave humans and dwarves to get killed. Oh god I took the bait.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:38 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 04:56 |
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Yare posted:Legitimate criticisms about the ending aside... Lots of books plays and movies have terrible endings too. Charles Dickens was notoriously bad at ending his books, or more accurately, bad at writing epilogues. The Jungle flipped its poo poo and became an advert for communism at the end - and the main things that the readers got from it was that food needed more regulation. Just because books do it doesn't mean that they're above criticism.
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| # ? Mar 19, 2012 03:38 |
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