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Slim Killington posted:^^^ Yeah again, I didn't take that attitude with anyone. You're inferring a level of attitude that isn't there. That is totally what you said duder word for word. If you think the ending is defensible then make an argument for it with actual sentences and words beyond "WELL DID YOU WANT KIDDY MOVIE THE GAME?" And if your only argument is the ending solves the problem of the cycle of chaos then that isn't really a good one because it's flat out ignoring the choices you can make in the game proving that both artificial and organic life can grow to be at peace with each other with out the need for the Reapers. It just doesn't make sense to say that is the case when the Geth flat out say they attack people because they are met with hostile actions 100% of the time and EDI is practically banging Joker.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:14 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 10:00 |
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TheJoker138 posted:The relays exploded with enough force that the entire galaxies they were in flashed. I personally think that this is one of the things that Bioware dropped the ball on. The ending can imply that the relay exploded like in Arrival and wipe out all life, but I don't they would have intentionally ended their game like that. Party Plane Jones posted:Pretty sure FTL drives in the game use Eezo. The core is made out of eezo, but the thrusters run on Helium-3. So they probably won't be building new starships for a while, but the existing ones should be fine. But then, I was under the impression that the eezo in the core is not consumed, or is consumed very slowly. If anyone has any information to the contrary, I'd love to hear it.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:15 |
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Guys, guys remember when some of you were so upset that you fought a T-800 at the end of 2 and ranted about it? Hoo boy I bet you'd take that ending any day now.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:16 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:Guys, guys remember when some of you were so upset that you fought a T-800 at the end of 2 and ranted about it? Hoo boy I bet you'd take that ending any day now. To be fair I think people were more upset that it was stupid looking not that the concept of Human-Reaper was stupid. Though it does sound kind of stupid... I would take stupid over bad any day.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:17 |
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Can we end this stupid loving insult derail? You know what was great? Tuchanka. I cried a manly tear for Mordin as he went up the elevator. He was one of my permanent squad members in ME2 and one of my favourite characters in the series. If he had to die, it's good he went out putting things right.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:17 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:Guys, guys remember when some of you were so upset that you fought a T-800 at the end of 2 and ranted about it? Hoo boy I bet you'd take that ending any day now. Well if there's one good thing about ME3's ending, is that there wasn't some dumb, lovely boss fight. The protecting the tanks thing was just a fun, challenging, surviving the horde mission, which is what ME's combat lends itself to. SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Can we end this stupid loving insult derail? Yeah, if there's one thing Bioware does right, it's characters, and Mordin's the best character they've ever written. His entire arc was great and I'm gonna remember Tuchanka for quite some time as one of my favorite video game missions.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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Slim Killington posted:You must have missed every other time in which I pretty blatantly said that no, it doesn't make the journey not matter. It doesn't just because "you said so" and that's certainly not a successful rebuttal of anything, at all. I know you're on probation for being an idiot, but your entire argument was "you said so" not anyone elses. They all gave you reasons why it thematically doesn't fit, why it doesn't fit with the plot, and why it's just straight up dumb because it makes the journey retroactively not matter. You are, once again, the one who is not coming up with any actual arguments over why, with this ending, the journey does still matter.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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TheJoker138 posted:But you quickly, quickly descended into it without making any actual points. The only point you even attempted to make is the old "it's the journey, not the destination" one, which was quickly rebutted by the fact that if the ending makes the journey not matter at all, then yes, the ending does matter. If Lord of the Rings had ended with them getting to the mountain, about to throw the ring in, but then God came down and was like "yo, I know you wanted to throw that ring in there, but I'm just going to destroy the entire planet, including Sauron and his forces, and all of you, ok c'ya" that would not be a good ending. That would be a bad ending that is completely divorced of anything that had come before it in the series, thematically, plot wise, or in any other way. That is almost exactly what they did with this. This is true on all points. And sums up my feelings quite well.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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quote:Yet at the end Shepard has a complete turn around and bends over for some AI out of nowhere. I get the feeling beyond lack of closure, this is the heart of the matter, all 3 endings are controlled by the Reapers. Shepard makes the choice, but within their framework. It feels like such a defeat rather than a victory when the objective of the Normandy crew and everyone else was to get past their framework and make their own choice. The synthesis ending doesn't make sense with my paragon Shepard because throughout the entire series, my Shep has said people should have their own choices and against galactic genocide. "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees", "I won't let fear compromise who I am" and so on. Synthesis is obviously the "best ending" because everyone lives, but Shepard's ultimately subverting everyone who he's fighting for's choice which flies in the face of- even the final conversation. "Organic life's defining characteristic is everyone makes their own choices". quote:So... why are we supposed to be scared of synthetics? Or at least moreso than anything else in the galaxy? Frankly, I'd be more likely to be worried about the revitalized Krogans wiping out all life than I would about the race of super-nice butler-robots. This is actually one of the positives of the Relay's getting destroyed. Now the Krogan are on Tuchunka don't have the genophage but they've still got a destroyed world and soon or later a massive breeding problem. The krogan, and everyone else will have to change in order to survive. This is why I'm actually alright with the relays getting destroyed.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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Slim Killington posted:You must have missed every other time in which I pretty blatantly said that no, it doesn't make the journey not matter. It doesn't just because "you said so" and that's certainly not a successful rebuttal of anything, at all. dude even if you think the basic ideas behind the endings were ok (which i kinda do) i don't see how you could possibly think they were well executed at all. catharsis is a really big part of any story, and the endings (for the vast majority of people) really hosed up at delivering it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Can we end this stupid loving insult derail? Mass Effect 3 will forever be a fantastic game full of fantastic moments that will never be talked about because of how bad the ending is.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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Tov01 posted:The core is made out of eezo, but the thrusters run on Helium-3. So they probably won't be building new starships for a while, but the existing ones should be fine. I was under the assumption, after reading the codexes that the way the eezo core works is that it lowers the mass of the vehicle as close to zero as possible, which in turns makes the thrusters dramatically more powerful.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:18 |
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Lloyd Boner posted:Well if there's one good thing about ME3's ending, is that there wasn't some dumb, lovely boss fight. The protecting the tanks thing was just a fun, challenging, surviving the horde mission, which is what ME's combat lends itself to. The only part about that I didn't like was I thought the design of the human-reaper was uninspired. What actually happened in it was just fine, and even pretty drat good, and got me pumped as hell for ME3.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:20 |
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Tov01 posted:But then, I was under the impression that the eezo in the core is not consumed, or is consumed very slowly. If anyone has any information to the contrary, I'd love to hear it. From the Mass Effect wiki: quote:Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field, raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A positive current increases mass, a negative current decreases it. This 'mass effect' is used in countless ways, from generating artificial gravity to manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is most prominently used to enable faster-than-light space travel. So Helium-3 would be useful for getting around the system, but it doesn't help FTL stuff apparently. The codex is a little iffy on it.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:20 |
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The Human Reaper bothered me mostly because it was the most Contra of Contra bosses. It just felt out of place. It's not even a bad boss, but it seriously wandered right out of Contra and I had to wonder where the hell my [S]pread Gun was. Pictured: Commander Shepard vs a Reaper.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:22 |
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randombattle posted:Mass Effect 3 will forever be a fantastic game full of fantastic moments that will never be talked about because of how bad the ending is.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:23 |
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randombattle posted:Mass Effect 3 will forever be a fantastic game full of fantastic moments that will never be talked about because of how bad the ending is. Aside from the Tuchanka stuff, my favorite moment in the game was taking Javik along to the asari homeworld and having him follow Liara around while she talks about all things their goddess and her messengers did for them. "Oh, this is xyz guy who taught us to write." "Prothean, actually. We felt sorry for you."
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:23 |
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The synthesis ending doesn't make any loving sense at all. This isn't Blade Runner, that's actually good writing. This makes even less sense than "RED MATTER" (i.e. Black Hole droplets). You can't just smear everything with translucent circuitry and say you've solved anything. It doesn't make any sense! Aghh!!! EDIT: You "merge" organic and synthetic and Joker still has a loving limp leaving the Normandy. Aaahhh!
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:25 |
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ImpAtom posted:The Human Reaper bothered me mostly because it was the most Contra of Contra bosses. It just felt out of place. It's not even a bad boss, but it seriously wandered right out of Contra and I had to wonder where the hell my [S]pread Gun was. It was called the Cain.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:26 |
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xeria posted:Aside from the Tuchanka stuff, my favorite moment in the game was taking Javik along to the asari homeworld and having him follow Liara around while she talks about all things their goddess and her messengers did for them. Watching her nerd out over the guy and him just brushing her off like a fly was hilarious to me.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:26 |
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Mehrunes posted:The synthesis ending doesn't make any loving sense at all. This isn't Blade Runner, that's actually good writing. This makes even less sense than "RED MATTER" (i.e. Black Hole droplets). You can't just smear everything with translucent circuitry and say you've solved anything. It doesn't make any sense! Aghh!
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:27 |
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Them having the one Prothean we ever see be a huge dickhole to everyone instead of the enlightened scholar that they were always made out to be was actually a stroke of genius, and a great twist on expectations. It sucks that he was day 1 dlc, cause I can't imagine playing the game without his interactions with the rest of the crew (I never used him on a single mission though).
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:28 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:That's cute how you singled that ending out like it somehow makes significantly less sense than the other 2. To be fair it really is. The other two are stupid but at least like... vaugly sensible if you stretch really hard. "I jumped into a thing and it made a green pulse that gave everyone robot DNA" is loving stupid even by the measure of stupid endings. What does robot DNA even MEAN?
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:29 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:I don't think you realize a ton of guys play Mass Effect like Halo and couldn't give 2 fucks about the story as long as they get to shoot poo poo and motorboat alien titties so I don't think the legacy will be that diminished except by hardcore fans and goons; who mostly hate Bioware anyway. You are forgetting bros and duders love hardcore endings where the main man fucks up some bad dudes and gets all the babes. They do not like poor philosophical arguments on the merits of transhumanisim and the relationships between man and machines as spoken by a little holographic boy.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:29 |
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TheJoker138 posted:Them having the one Prothean we ever see be a huge dickhole to everyone instead of the enlightened scholar that they were always made out to be was actually a stroke of genius, and a great twist on expectations. It sucks that he was day 1 dlc, cause I can't imagine playing the game without his interactions with the rest of the crew (I never used him on a single mission though). For some reason he kept dying on me, so after two missions I went back to alternating between Garrus and James.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:30 |
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TheJoker138 posted:Them having the one Prothean we ever see be a huge dickhole to everyone instead of the enlightened scholar that they were always made out to be was actually a stroke of genius, and a great twist on expectations. It sucks that he was day 1 dlc, cause I can't imagine playing the game without his interactions with the rest of the crew (I never used him on a single mission though).
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:30 |
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TheJoker138 posted:Them having the one Prothean we ever see be a huge dickhole to everyone instead of the enlightened scholar that they were always made out to be was actually a stroke of genius, and a great twist on expectations. It sucks that he was day 1 dlc, cause I can't imagine playing the game without his interactions with the rest of the crew (I never used him on a single mission though). Yeah I took him on the final mission, thinking he'd like to make good on his claim about spitting the reapers in the eye as the last Prothean as they all died. He really didn't end up doing much.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:30 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:I felt strongly obligated to take him to Tuchunka to fight the fight Reaper. I'm glad he reacted to it appropriately as well something like "This will be my first taste of Reaper blood but not my last!" Yeah oddly enough he has way more to say on missions with out Reapers then ones with them. He is a loving chatterbox on some missions but shuts up if a Reaper shows up. I ended up rolling with him a lot especially if the mission had something to do with prothians.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:31 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:That's cute how you singled that ending out like it somehow makes significantly less sense than the other 2. It does, the reapers exploding/being told to get the gently caress out makes way more sense then people being combined into robot people because a wave of green hit them and now all people are robots.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:31 |
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Mehrunes posted:The synthesis ending doesn't make any loving sense at all. This isn't Blade Runner, that's actually good writing. This makes even less sense than "RED MATTER" (i.e. Black Hole droplets). You can't just smear everything with translucent circuitry and say you've solved anything. It doesn't make any sense! Aghh!!! I would have really liked it if Joker had hopped out of the Normandy wreck and was all like, very visually obviously unhindered by his condition. That would have added at least SOMETHING to the synergy ending (which is the one I picked). Also I will say that seeing Joker try to frantically outrun the blast wave was a really powerful moment for me; I picked synthesis because I didn't wanna, you know, obliterate entire races, and then I was afraid I'd killed my buddy Joker. So the ending DID at least elicit an emotional response, if nothing else.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:31 |
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Pladdicus posted:It does, the reapers exploding/being told to get the gently caress out makes way more sense then people being combined into robot people because a wave of green hit them and now all people are robots. None of the other endings actually change anything that you see happening though, so they all make no sense at all, and have nothing to do with anything that AI Kid told you was going to happen.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:32 |
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randombattle posted:Yeah oddly enough he has way more to say on missions with out Reapers then ones with them. He is a loving chatterbox on some missions but shuts up if a Reaper shows up. I ended up rolling with him a lot especially if the mission had something to do with prothians. He's really at his best if you take him to the asari homeworld with Liara, but I also liked his interjections when talking to Wrex on Sur'kesh. Wrex: "I like to eat salarian livers." *Salarian guard narrows his eyes* Javik: "They are quite a delicacy." Salarian guard: "......." I'm on my second playthrough and I've been taking him on every mission just to see what else he has to say as he meets 'new' races and we go to different homeworlds.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:33 |
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xeria posted:He's really at his best if you take him to the asari homeworld with Liara, but I also liked his interjections when talking to Wrex on Sur'kesh. "..I think they're amphibians.." "They used to eat flies  "
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:36 |
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Can we end this stupid loving insult derail? I hope he's running tests on his sea shells up in mad-scientist heaven.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:37 |
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Amateur Saboteur posted:"Salarians? The lizard people evolved???" I kinda hope there's an alternate ending DLC where Shepard never existed or failed so the Reapers show up 50,000 years later and the galaxy is ruled by the Shadow Broker's race, the space dogs and the space monkey you could punch.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:39 |
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^Don't forgot those non-sapient crab things you can roadkill on Virmire I can almost cry thinking of the scene where Shep, Garrus, Jacob, and Javik kick back and knock down some nattys on the Citadel that will never happen  .
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:39 |
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I felt that the destroy ending was the only "real" ending based on how the game and story and choices had gone for the entire series. Instead of just making it one of the choices, they should have made it the default and branched off from there. I was shocked that the synthesis and control options were even presented to me, it just seemed like a giant dump on the where the game was steering you. I am also still pretty upset about Mordin  Best videogame character of all-time in my opinion.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:40 |
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I think the writer at Bioware read the conversation with Caeser in Fallout: New Vegas and was just like 'thesis, antithesis..., WE HAVE TO PUT SYNTHESIS IN TO MASS EFFECT' without any actual understanding of either Dialectics or Physics. And now we are stuck with one of the worst endings of all time.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:40 |
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Party Plane Jones posted:From the Mass Effect wiki: Huh, so it needs an electrical source. I choose to believe that they still run diesel generators somewhere down in the engine room. I want to believe this.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:41 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 10:00 |
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I don't like the ending(s), but I sincerely think a minor tweak would have rendered a lot of the complaints null and void. All you had to do was reveal that there have been previous Cycles where the Reapers were persuaded to not do their 'duty', and that all of those Cycles met the end the Reapers warned them about. This and the other thread are filled with people citing the Quarian/Geth peace, or the Krogan/Turian peace. Instead of ignoring that, as Bioware did, this minor twist would build off that. Shep could argue that these examples of peace show that the Reapers are wrong, but Catalyst could respond with a list of Cycles in which said peace didn't last. Instead of portraying the Reapers as doing an ill-thought out action on the behest of one race's assumption (namely, that Synthetics and Organics can't live together), this change would portray the Reapers as doing something to prevent things that have happened thousands of times. It'd make players wonder if breaking the Reaper Cycle is the right thing to do. After all, aside from a line in Catalyst's files, the AI/Creator races in Cycle 524543 don't exist. If they had been Reaperized, they would have survived in some form. It would have made the choices presented not ones you want to pick, but ones you have to pick. They all break the Reaper Cycle, but at a horrible cost. Hell, add in a "Just Destroy The Reapers" ending, and end it on a note that nobody is sure that the peace created will survive in the next five minutes. TheJoker138 posted:Them having the one Prothean we ever see be a huge dickhole to everyone instead of the enlightened scholar that they were always made out to be was actually a stroke of genius, and a great twist on expectations. I completely agree. The cliche of the Long Dead Distant Loving Precursor happens a lot in science fiction, and bringing that concept down a peg was brilliant.
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| # ? Mar 11, 2012 08:42 |
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