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Cellophane S posted:I think people would be OK with an ending that kills Shepard and the whole crew too, if it was well done and it made sense. Count me in on this. If there was an ending where I had to sacrifice the Normandy, the crew and Shepard, and maybe even Earth and everyone in the solar system- just to take away the Reaper's control over the endings I would gladly take it. As it stands now, all the endings are by the Reaper's designs and under their control. Even if the cycle is broken, nothing changed- they will forever be the ones who were in control of everything. The cycle ended because they allowed it, not because we citizens of the milky way took it away from them. Basically there is no "gently caress you!" ending. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2012 around 09:34 |
| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:29 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 17:03 |
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Count me in on this. If there was an ending where I had to sacrifice the Normandy, the crew and Shepard, and maybe even Earth and everyone in the solar system- just to take away the Reaper's control over the endings I would gladly take it. I thought they were all "gently caress you" endings, it's just that the group that phrase is directed at wasn't the Reapers.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:39 |
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Sanschel posted:I thought they were all "gently caress you" endings, it's just that the group that phrase is directed at wasn't the Reapers. And it was unintentional- Walters and Hudson painted an abstract piece of art that looked exactly like the Goatman and they're pretending not to notice when people point out why it's bad.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:41 |
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Berk Berkly posted:Obviously there are subsets within groups. The people who want a really specific happy ending are a subset of a vaster group who want a happy ending who are a subset of an ever vaster group of people who just don't want such a disappointing ending. Though it's not that horse, it's the opposite. The people who specifically want the ending to be happy (if not necessarily utterly without cost) are certainly vocal, perhaps a minority, but not a minor one. Not even in this thread, and certainly not outside of it. Yet, there are lots of posts saying "no one" wants a happy ending. Which of course really just mean "I don't want one", but it still seems to lead people to earnestly believing that demand for a happier ending really isn't it at all and anyone who claims there is such a thing is deluded or dishonest. Really, once you strip away the "End it like *insert joke nonsense sequence*? Still better than what we got!  ", people unhappy with the ending have a lot of substantially different things they want to see or not see in it. And that's really significant whether or not Bioware releases significant changes.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:43 |
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I would like the option to have a bad ending I would also like the option to have an ending where everyone dies What made the Suicide Mission so satisfying the first time was that you knew that people could die and when you all got alive you wanted to punch the air. When Mass Effect 3 ending I felt nothing which is kind of bad for something I invested 5 years into. edit: oh man, watching the Mass Effect 2 ending on youtube The music, joker coming out with his assault rifle, flying away from your enemies exploding base, telling the illusive man to gently caress off, walking past your squad and then a shot of the reapers to show what lies ahead. how did they get it so wrong this time 
Drake Bate fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2012 around 09:53 |
| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:48 |
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How about this: 1. There are a sizable number of people out there who want either the ending or a ending to involve a mostly or completely sacrifice-free 'happy ending' where most or everyone lives and things are great afterwards. Subdivide this into people who want the happy ending to be the 'default'/primary/canon ending, and those who want it to be one option among many. 2. There are a sizable number of people out there who simply want an ending(s) that is 'happier' and are willing to accept many things that result in death, destruction, and suffering, but still convey more of a sense of hope than the current endings. They also think that a 'happy' ending would be inappropriate for whatever reason. I think most people who have been posting recently fall into this camp, although my memory is selective. 3. There are a number of people who think that the endings are satisfactory or great or whatever. We don't know how many people are in group 1 relative to group 2, or how many people are in groups 1 and 2 relative to 3. And taking a sample of posts in this thread is hardly representative. However, we do know (or at least surmise) that groups 1 and 2 found common ground in that they don't like the ending and since there are no plans or information for actual new endings they generally don't disagree that often (no need to argue that Bioware did the right thing or the wrong thing; everything is theoretical at this point). Maybe later this April groups 1 and 2 will fracture. But I think that trying to make a clear distinction or trying to compare the two groups at the moment won't lead to much insight. People in group 1 don't claim to speak for those in group 2, and vice versa.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:52 |
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thumb posted:The weird thing is that I have the Javic DLC. So I don't know why I was seeing that. I thought he might be a stand in for Tali, as she died in my playthrough. Oh then that's probably who he was standing in for, I just thought you didn't have Javik. I don't know why they had to have a bunch of replacements there rather than empty space. Maybe it would look a little depressing if you only had the minimum people there. But then again it would kind of emphasize the idea that you've got some long odds.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:52 |
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skoolmunkee posted:Oh then that's probably who he was standing in for, I just thought you didn't have Javik. I don't know why they had to have a bunch of replacements there rather than empty space. Maybe it would look a little depressing if you only had the minimum people there. But then again it would kind of emphasize the idea that you've got some long odds. "Hey, guys. I shot Wrex on Virmire and left Kaidan to die. Ten of my twelve squadmates died during our assault on the Collector base. Sword is getting torn to pieces in orbit around Earth, only a quarter of Hammer even made it to the FOB, and we still haven't figured out if the Crucible is a Reaper-killing superweapon or a Prothean smoothie maker. But it's alright. Just trust in my leadership and we'll beat the Reapers today. I promise." 
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 09:57 |
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fenghuang posted:How about this: This is really over thinking all of it and not really the issue. The problem is the ending isn't any of these things. It's not a downer ending or a sad ending or a happy ending. It's none of these and is so removed from any emotion that it doesn't do anything for the player at all which is even worse then expecting something else from it. Yes there are people who want a happy ending. Yes there are people who want a sacrifice ending. Yes there are people who want a straight up bad ending where you fail because you did bad. But at the core everyone just wants something to make them feel like the journey was worth it be that with the star wars style happy conclusion or an emotional sacrifice from Shepard. If Bioware releases an ending where Shepard has to die to stop the Reapers but it's actually a meaningful sacrifice then people would be happy even if they wanted a super good ending. People are just voicing their disapproval by saying what they want but this doesn't mean that that would literally be the only way the ending could work for them. Everyone wants an emotional connection to what happens in the end. Like the suicide mission in 2 whether you liked the ending you got or not it felt good because it was something you accomplished. You got there because of what you did and the ending reflected that. The ending in 3 is so far removed that it doesn't even feel like a conclusion to the story. It's the lack of an ending to the emotional turmoil in the build up that turns everyone sour. Bioware could do anything to the ending and people will be happy as long as it has that resolution to the build up.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:03 |
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Killer robot posted:Though it's not that horse, it's the opposite. The people who specifically want the ending to be happy (if not necessarily utterly without cost) are certainly vocal, perhaps a minority, but not a minor one. Not even in this thread, and certainly not outside of it. Yet, there are lots of posts saying "no one" wants a happy ending. Which of course really just mean "I don't want one", but it still seems to lead people to earnestly believing that demand for a happier ending really isn't it at all and anyone who claims there is such a thing is deluded or dishonest. I wanted a happy ending. To be more accurate I wanted the possibility of a "happy ending." When Bioware touted "16 different endings" I figured the spectrum would vary from "Whoops! Watch the galaxy burn" to "Reapers defeated. Retire with LI" based on your choices through all 3 games. I mean people agonised over these decisions to get their "perfect" runs in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, they could eek out a victory for everybody (ala ME2 end sequence). randombattle posted:Yes a lot of people like happy endings but they aren't opposed to sad endings. They are opposed to poo poo endings. 
Axialbloom fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2012 around 10:23 |
| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:04 |
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One thing I'm glad to see is that a Paragon choice really threatens to screw you over for once: rewriting the heretics as opposed to destroying them makes reconciling the Geth and the Quarians a lot harder, although the game doesn't make this clear at all. They should have done a lot more with that in the series, though. Be a principled Paragon and suffer horrible losses because you didn't have the stones to make the tough calls, or decide that the ends justify the means as a Renegade and kill a thousand innocents to save a billion. THAT would have made for some moral dilemmas. Think of the ME1 sidequest with Nirali Bhatia's remains writ large (let her husband bury her and gain closure, or deny him her remains but use them to develop more effective countermeasures for Geth weaponry). Instead, curing the Genophage doesn't seem to have any real downsides, and sabotaging the cure just makes you into a tremendous backstabbing dick for no real benefit. Mordin's sacrifice also seems really forced because the Shroud tower seems to start exploding just because the plot demanded a tearful scene at that point.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:04 |
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randombattle posted:The problem is the ending isn't any of these things. It's not a downer ending or a sad ending or a happy ending. It's none of these and is so removed from any emotion that it doesn't do anything for the player at all which is even worse then expecting something else from it. I absolutely agree with you that the ending was too badly written to be sad or happy or whatever. But if Bioware released (say,) a modified bittersweet ending with no 'happy ending' type permutations, do you think everyone would be happy with that? I was thinking about killer robot's comments about the difference between people demanding happy endings and the people demanding endings that weren't completely bad/downer/whatever. If I misinterpreted you I apologize .
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:07 |
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Mr Dog posted:although the game doesn't make this clear at all. There's a War Journal entry for it! Whoever thought up that stupid thing is a genius, it's like an email for every loving button you've ever pressed. Forcing Jack to deploy her students seems to be the right decision, though there's probably not much of a negative outcome there. Also making TIM commit suicide makes the ending even shittier. 
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:11 |
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Mr Dog posted:They should have done a lot more with that in the series, though. Be a principled Paragon and suffer horrible losses because you didn't have the stones to make the tough calls, or decide that the ends justify the means as a Renegade and kill a thousand innocents to save a billion. THAT would have made for some moral dilemmas. This is what they originally hyped the system as, and what a few quests seemed to nudge towards in the first game (returning the soldier's body to her family/having tests run on it against Geth weaponry, etc, springs to mind). Sadly it's largely DICK/NOT DICK.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:13 |
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Mr Dog posted:Instead, curing the Genophage doesn't seem to have any real downsides, and sabotaging the cure just makes you into a tremendous backstabbing dick for no real benefit. Mordin's sacrifice also seems really forced because the Shroud tower seems to start exploding just because the plot demanded a tearful scene at that point. Wreav cannot be trusted, and even mordin will understand this and back down from the plan. You're tempting fate with wrex alive/eve dead (all it takes is one power hungry krogan warlord to kill wrex and take over without eve's ability to unify the clans) and you're asking for another rebellion if you cure the genophage with Wreav in charge. There's total justification for it and there's real downsides to curing it if you didn't have certain circumstances line up.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:16 |
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fenghuang posted:I absolutely agree with you that the ending was too badly written to be sad or happy or whatever. But if Bioware released (say,) a modified bittersweet ending with no 'happy ending' type permutations, do you think everyone would be happy with that? I was thinking about killer robot's comments about the difference between people demanding happy endings and the people demanding endings that weren't completely bad/downer/whatever. I absolutely do believe people would be satisfied with a bittersweet ending if it was done to the quality of say Mordin's death scene. People aren't demanding that Thane be allowed to live if he fights Kai Leng. Not because nobody cares about Thane but because he had a well written and well performed scene that fell right into place in his character arch and theme of his story. Yes a lot of people like happy endings but they aren't opposed to sad endings. They are opposed to poo poo endings.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:17 |
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Banjodark posted:If wrex is dead then there is a very real, moral reason for wanting to sabotage the cure. Besides which, if Wreav is alive sabotaging the cure doesn't lose you krogan support, since Wreav unlike his brother is not canny enough to ever find out. I think anyway! That's what I heard.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:17 |
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randombattle posted:I absolutely do believe people would be satisfied with a bittersweet ending if it was done to the quality of say Mordin's death scene. Okay, that makes sense. I had in mind creepy BSN Talimancers who really wanted to build that house on Rannoch or whatever. But then again, like you said, people thought Thane's ending fit the character and ended his arc on a heroic high note and nobody is burning down their forums demanding Thane retcon DLC, so I probably am overthinking it. Android Blues posted:Besides which, if Wreav is alive sabotaging the cure doesn't lose you krogan support, since Wreav unlike his brother is not canny enough to ever find out. Nope, he doesn't! Wrex even says something to the effect of "do you think I would be as stupid as my brother and never figure it out?", which is sort of strange since you only meet his brother for a few moments if you kept him alive in ME1.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:28 |
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Count me in on this. If there was an ending where I had to sacrifice the Normandy, the crew and Shepard, and maybe even Earth and everyone in the solar system- just to take away the Reaper's control over the endings I would gladly take it. This is what I was getting at. It's not Anderson saying "You did good", it's Reapers saying "You did good enough". To address the discussion my post seems to have spawned, it seems to me that the things that many people want are already there. The Pyrrhic victory where you end the Reaper threat but destroy the Relays, closure by talking to your crew at the end and them crashing on the jungle planet, the glimmer of hope with Buzz and kid that shows your crew survived and prospered. Granted, there are plot holes and many plot points are pretty contrived and clumsily presented, but they are there. Personally, no matter how shallow and easy it is, for my main game I would have taken "Shepard lived happily ever after" ending in a heartbeat. To be perfectly honest, I got emotionally invested in a game that looked like it was going for a "gently caress Yeah!" ending and now I'm sad when things didn't go my way. That's pretty much all there is to it.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 10:30 |
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I actually like sad endings, and I still thought the end to ME3 was poo poo. So it's not the sadness that is wrong there, it's so many other things
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 11:37 |
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Finished ME3 yesterday, and I didn't particularly mind whatever the ending itself had to show me because I had completely stopped caring about everything ever since the start of that god-awful attack mission into the Cerberus Base. The game really took a nose-dive right there and really lost all my interest; from that point on the game became an unpolished, bad-to-generic shooter with way too many cutscenes, pointless dialogue bits and really, really boring mission design. The difference in quality compared to basically everything before that mission was unbelievable.
Zat fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2012 around 11:48 |
| # ? Mar 31, 2012 11:45 |
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The ending should be Harbinger jamming the Crucible to prevent it from firing, and the only way to stop it is to ram the Normandy into him at FTL speeds. The rest of the squad dies, the Crucible fires, destroys the Reapers, destroys the fleet, kills everyone on Earth, and Shepard dies. The epilogue shifts to a bar on Omega, where  is telling everyone about this one time these giant squidships invaded Earth, and how he was the only one to make it out alive.There's my fanfic ending. 
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 11:52 |
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NPR covered the rubbish ending this morning, and then compared it to the ending to Red Dead Redemption (and spoiled the latter for me; those jerks  )
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:02 |
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The ending should be me talking and convincing the entire Reaper species into suicide.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:12 |
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Zat posted:Finished ME3 yesterday, and I didn't particularly mind whatever the ending itself had to show me because I had completely stopped caring about everything ever since the start of that god-awful attack mission into the Cerberus Base. The game really took a nose-dive right there and really lost all my interest; from that point on the game became an unpolished, bad-to-generic shooter with way too many cutscenes, pointless dialogue bits and really, really boring mission design. The difference in quality compared to basically everything before that mission was unbelievable. I don't get this at all, I was on a for-reals combat high from the instant the shuttle bay doors opened up in London, it was one of those rare moments where I forget my hands are on a mouse and keyboard. I felt just about like Shepard looked by the time I made it to the beam.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:15 |
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Yeah I was riding a gaming high until the elevator elevated me into the bad ending
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:18 |
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Zzulu posted:The ending should be me talking and convincing the entire Reaper species into suicide. I swear we were going to have a Saren redux with Harbinger taking direct control over TIM and we would have a kickass battle. But... yea.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:28 |
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Venmoch posted:Sup Dream Chat buddy. That's dark, but that's precisely the point. It's a nightmare, so it allows them room to play around with, since it's not really happening. Moreover, it has to be dark to really disturb the player as well as Shep. It might seem strange that I'm encouraging they make a scene where I have to watch some painful things happen to Liara, but I'm encouraging this precisely because I would hate it so much and it would disturb me, and I wouldn't enjoy going through that scene. That's the point of a nightmare scene - that it disturbs me emotionally rather than just bores me like the kid did. Venmoch posted:And has closure. No one minds a pyrrhic "everyone dies" victory. But they want to know if that sacrifice means anything. Rather than the dreaded "Speculation" Hey now. I really have to take a stand against absolutes, "no one" would mind a forced sacrifice no matter what, types of posting. Killer robot posted:Though it's not that horse, it's the opposite. The people who specifically want the ending to be happy (if not necessarily utterly without cost) are certainly vocal, perhaps a minority, but not a minor one. Not even in this thread, and certainly not outside of it. Yet, there are lots of posts saying "no one" wants a happy ending. Which of course really just mean "I don't want one", but it still seems to lead people to earnestly believing that demand for a happier ending really isn't it at all and anyone who claims there is such a thing is deluded or dishonest. This covers it. I don't know why people keep using "This would please literally everyone" when they really mean "it would please me." I'm adamant that the game needs a happy ending. I do not think it's fitting or thematically appropriate to force me to sacrifice Shepard, his LI, the Normandy crew, the galaxy, galactic civilization, or any combination of this, to defeat the Reapers - no matter how I played. You can portray a sacrificial, "pyrrhic" victory well, but I'll still oppose it. It worked in RDR because RDR set up the themes for it, but ME sets up an overarching theme that your choices matter and you can have whatever goal you're working towards. My perfectionist paragon Shepard has constantly done the impossible. To ask me to accept RDR's ending in ME now is to completely change the tone of the series from a Star Wars/Star Trek vibe to something completely different, and it doesn't work. If it is literally impossible to not have to sacrifice, it will always fall flat for me. This is why I am such a strong advocate of multiple endings. I do not think my 100% happy ending I so desperately want, should be the canon or only ending. I think it should be one of many, because while I can say the strongest theme of my run was self-determination, and beating the odds - doing the impossible - I recognize that those are not the strongest themes for other possible Shepards. So the strongest theme of ME is "player choice" and the ending should be consistent. You satisfy that theme with multiple endings, with various degree of sacrifice - including "no sacrifice" all the way to "total sacrifice" to beat the Reapers.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:28 |
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Cellophane S posted:http://www.giantbomb.com/news/stick...e-landing/4061/ This is a surprisingly poor piece of work by Patrick Klepek where he perpetuates the idea that people just wanted a happy ending
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:48 |
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I just finished the game. The ending had problems, but overall I was rather pleased by the themes it explored, or maybe it just feels like I'm rather pleased because I don't hate it as much as others. My favorite theme from Mass Effect must be the complicated relationship between creators and their creations. It's most obvious in the quarian-geth conflict, but I also see it present in the salarian-uplifted krogan conflict and in the personal conflict between Jacob/Miranda/Tali and their parents and between Thane/Samara and their children and even Shepard and his resurrector, TIM. It seems like parents are always trying to kill or get killed by their kids. I did feel that the use of the kid as the catalyst was problematic. It was in keeping with the whole generation conflict, but I agree with people who said we didn't necessarily have the same emotional investment with the kid as with their squadmates or LI. It's a valid point. I didn't have too much problem with it because I made a tortured Shepard and his PTSD dreams fit right in. For me, my complaint is that child voice actors tend to lack the... gravitas needed for such a role. But I did love the mixing of the parent-child theme with my second favorite theme of Mass Effect: the question of how far will you go to survive. That question gets brought up all the time in the series. Sometimes the paragons will risk more (like letting the geth upgrade to fight the reapers), sometimes the renegades will (like supporting Cerberus's shadier actions). When the catalyst says the purpose of the reapers isn't to kill organic life but to save it, I instantly tuned into that. A difficult choice was made a long time ago that this was the best way to preserve life. The fact that the life that they preserve is grotesque and mindless like a pickle is a preserved cucumber makes it all the theme all the richer to me. I think the one ending that is lacking is the option to submit to the reapers. The creation of the crucible and Shepard making it into the heart of the citadel were enough to convince the catalyst that the harvest cycles were no longer necessary, but I would have actually liked the option to question the validity of that assumption. Although my enjoyment of the themes dominated my disappointment, I still think the ending was poorly executed. For one, its open-ended, vague nature conflicted with the action hero tone of the game. Vagueness and straightforwardness are both valid methods of storytelling and can even work together, but it felt incongruous in Mass Effect to build up the reaper mystery and have it end on more mystery. Ultimately, it left and created too many story-based questions that have now crowded out the more pleasing philosophical questions which I think the writers were going for. Internet Kraken posted:Oh, and someone might have pointed out how synthesis makes no god drat sense since it was the dream of the indoctrinated antagonist of the first game and aaaaghhhhhh Well that's the problem, Saren was indoctrinated. The kind of melding he was talking about is exactly the kind of ascension the catalyst considers the harvests to be. Saren is the hero I wanted my Shep to be, except I wanted my Shep to choose ascension without the psychic suggestion of indoctrination. The synthesis is totally different from being made into husks or liquefied into reaper plastic. For one thing, Joker doesn't look like an HR Geiger installment. Something about the synthesis is new, truly new. It takes the combined properties of the crucible, the catalyst, and Shepard to make it work. It's a new creation that can challenge the sad reality of the cycle of destruction between parents and children.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 12:48 |
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Caufman posted:The synthesis is totally different from being made into husks or liquefied into reaper plastic. For one thing, Joker doesn't look like an HR Geiger installment. Something about the synthesis is new, truly new. It takes the combined properties of the crucible, the catalyst, and Shepard to make it work. It's a new creation that can challenge the sad reality of the cycle of destruction between parents and children. If the races who are now synthetic are a) different from purely created synthetics, then what's to prevent new creator/created wars in future, either because the current races feel that synthetics that have organic roots are superior or because synthetics that have never been organic still are far alien to orginally organic races b) same as purely created races, then why did the Catalyst feel that synthetics overtaking organics was such a problem that it required constant galactic culling as solution, only to turn everything into synthetics in the end anyway.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:03 |
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The main reason I played the first 2 mass effect games was the story. I was eager to see where all of this was going. There is a strong "what happens next" feeling that kept me going. The ending segment and final mission sequence for mass effect 2 is also one of my all time gaming favorites. It is satisfying and rewarding, with all the things you did coming to a head. Finding out about the ending for mass effect 3 is something I am glad that I read about before playing. One line killed it for me: In all the endings, the mass relays are destroyed. What the gently caress. What kind of lovely ending is that? I could see that being ONE of the possible endings and a desperate solution or something, but gently caress. No. You do not force on the player that your whole god drat universe you built up over 3 games gets totally hosed. That is just reprehensibly sloppy storytelling - unsatisfying as hell and leaves the player feeling cheated. I won't even go into all the other stuff that is terrible but had been coveted already. I have no interest in playing ME3 because of that one line alone - the mass relays are destroyed no matter what you do. Bad form, Bioware.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:17 |
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No matter which ending, every organic is going to have to become partially synthetic in order to survive without the mass relays. You know, like the guys from Javick's time.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:25 |
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Times posted:The main reason I played the first 2 mass effect games was the story. I was eager to see where all of this was going. There is a strong "what happens next" feeling that kept me going. The ending segment and final mission sequence for mass effect 2 is also one of my all time gaming favorites. It is satisfying and rewarding, with all the things you did coming to a head. I completely understand this, and I've always said that forcing me to destroy the Mass Relays - and as a consequence, galactic civilization - in every ending, is one of the few really really horrible mistakes they could make. It kills the IP. However, rather than retreading how much I hate that, I do want to tell you that Bioware has been heavily implying they will do something with the ending, we just don't know what and to what degree they will change it, yet. As well, aside from the ending, most of the game is absolutely amazing. My entire point is really, you should play the game through once anyway. Just pretend the ending doesn't exist - that's what I'm doing. I've seriously written off the ending as if it was bad fanfiction on fanfiction.net. As far as I'm concerned, ME3 does not have an ending until Bioware releases whatever changes they are planning on. Despite that, the game is definitely worth playing. It really is an absolute shame that the ending is so poisonous it's stopping people from seeing what really impressive things the writing did with the rest of the game.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:26 |
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Puistokemisti posted:If the races who are now synthetic are I want to make sure we're agreeing on our use of terms. By synthetic do you mean inorganic like the geth, or synthetic as in relating to the new creation, or are they the same? Because while they share the same root, my reaction was that the synthesis doesn't turn all life into inorganics/synthetics so much as it generates a new type of life which combines elements of organic and inorganic life into something verdant and beautiful (hence the ending in the circuit board jungle instead of tubes and steel). quote:a) different from purely created synthetics, then what's to prevent new creator/created wars in future, either because the current races feel that synthetics that have organic roots are superior or because synthetics that have never been organic still are far alien to orginally organic races This is I think is the kind of question/speculation which generates more pleasurable conversation and less frustration over plot holes and mysteries. Yeah, there is no guarantee. The catalyst, whose been doing this for ages, seems to recognize a change that Shepard has brought. Can we trust its judgment? Can we trust our own? That's why I wanted a cowardly option of accepting indoctrination. The hell you know might be better than the hell you don't. A part of me does think the new peace will be permanent, and it is because of Shepard's energy/soul/essence. When characters talk about Shepard's heroic aura, or how Shep manages to do the impossible, how people are drawn to Shep, I almost get this feeling that Shepard is somehow supernatural, possessing the kind of power of will needed to end the doomed cycle forever. It makes sense for me to believe that by stepping into the crucible, the new life, Shepard's creation, will be inherently and permanently different. I think this is the Brave New World idea that can be enjoyably explored. It does remind me of Sarah Connor's monologues at the end of Terminator 2, less well-executed but also less moody. The image of the jungle and the old man and kid are more assuredly hopeful than that of the black highway.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:27 |
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Aristobulus posted:I completely understand this, and I've always said that forcing me to destroy the Mass Relays - and as a consequence, galactic civilization - in every ending, is one of the few really really horrible mistakes they could make. It kills the IP. I may forgive them if they introduce better endings with DLC. Everything I've read about the game says it is great aside from retarded DLC issues, and then then ending ratfucks it all to hell. Like they made a great set up to a joke but forgot the right punchline. They should also not charge a penny for "better written ending" DLC unless it has content on par or better with ME2's substantial shadowbroker DLC. If they wove it in saying that the old endings were the end result of some narrow decision making, and something more outside the box occurs to Shepard, that might work. Or one could say that the events of the current ending are just the precursor to the REAL finale, which Would be way cooler and satisfying. I hope they rectify their severe error. In any case, the idea of either paying for or waiting on DLC to fix problems with a game's ending is not something that sits well with me. I never liked how that happened with fallout 3 - you have to pay more money to get the payoff the writers should have been wise enough to give you the first time round.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:43 |
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Times posted:I may forgive them if they introduce better endings with DLC. Everything I've read about the game says it is great aside from retarded DLC issues, and then then ending ratfucks it all to hell. Like they made a great set up to a joke but forgot the right punchline. "Clarification" is the word they keep using, and it's making me have incredibly low expectations.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:46 |
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I know this basically boils down to conspiracy theory, but I really hope selling an epilogue wasn't what they were planning all along.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:51 |
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Aristobulus posted:I completely understand this, and I've always said that forcing me to destroy the Mass Relays - and as a consequence, galactic civilization - in every ending, is one of the few really really horrible mistakes they could make. It kills the IP. This isn't entirely true. If we go by what is presented to us by the ending. (Which isn't a lot at all I know.) There isn't enough evidence to prove either way what happens at the end. (Although we can glean a lot from the Codex and other information from the trilogy.) The fundamental problem I have with this ending is the severe lack of information for the sake of "Speculation." Do the Systems Alliance and Allied Race's create a new network of Mass Relays now the the reapers are dead? They could. But because we have no closure or anything approaching a resolution to all the questions we have we cannot say for sure. Hell, Human Revolution had a better Epilogue than ME3 does. Even if it does have the same style ending.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 13:53 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 17:03 |
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Fancy Hat! posted:I know this basically boils down to conspiracy theory, but I really hope selling an epilogue wasn't what they were planning all along. Never attribute to malice what you could just as easily attribute to incompetence.
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| # ? Mar 31, 2012 14:08 |
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