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I mean, this might just be me, but. This entire time, a HUGE part of this problem has been that the only communication with Bioware we've had was with their Community Managers, basically glorified customer service reps, like Priestly, Merizan and Woo. And every single time, they've talked down to us, insulted our intelligence, gave us lip service (we're listening, guys, no, really, we promise) and just made us more and more pissed off, to the point where we're like "gently caress IT, not buying a Bioware product ever again. t "Then one short conversation with one of the actual game-making people comes out, and hopes for the extended edition DLC shoot from "absolute zero" to "something tangible". And then the community managers manage to gently caress THAT up too! I swear to God, I'm not trying to sound all goony and spiteful here, but how the hell do these community guys keep their jobs after this? All they've done as representatives of Bioware and EA is make the company look worse, while any conversation with one of the actual writers or designers would yield DRASTICALLY different results. Have you ever talked to Manveer Heir or Cristina Norman on twitter? They're really cool people! Heir always answers my questions and generally seems like a cool guy. I mean, I dunno, maybe it's just me? But I really don't see how their conduct as representatives of the company that employs them is acceptable is any sense of the word, especially in relation to Mass Effect 3, but also in relation to The Old Republic and Dragon Age 2.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:36 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 21:29 |
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VJeff posted:I mean, this might just be me, but. This entire time, a HUGE part of this problem has been that the only communication with Bioware we've had was with their Community Managers, basically glorified customer service reps, like Priestly, Merizan and Woo. And every single time, they've talked down to us, insulted our intelligence, gave us lip service (we're listening, guys, no, really, we promise) and just made us more and more pissed off, to the point where we're like "gently caress IT, not buying a Bioware product ever again. t It's really not acceptable and it's a reason so many people are mad at Bioware over this. And it really just makes Weekes and such seem even more respectable.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:38 |
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Merizan is just frustrating in a way you'd expect tight-lipped PR reps to be frustrating. Priestly and Woo are maladjusted children.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:39 |
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VJeff posted:I mean, this might just be me, but. This entire time, a HUGE part of this problem has been that the only communication with Bioware we've had was with their Community Managers, basically glorified customer service reps, like Priestly, Merizan and Woo. And every single time, they've talked down to us, insulted our intelligence, gave us lip service (we're listening, guys, no, really, we promise) and just made us more and more pissed off, to the point where we're like "gently caress IT, not buying a Bioware product ever again. t What if Preistly, Merizan, et al worked at GE, McDonalds, Disney, or Ford and did the same thing?
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:42 |
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Oxxidation posted:Merizan is just frustrating in a way you'd expect tight-lipped PR reps to be frustrating. Priestly and Woo are maladjusted children. I'd like to know if there's any other example of 'PR' people (in any industry) working for a company of comparable caliber acting with such overt hostility towards their customers.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:42 |
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BigBoss posted:What if Preistly, Merizan, et al worked at GE, McDonalds, Disney, or Ford and did the same thing? Merizan hasn't been all that terrible, honestly. She'd be fine at other companies, except for maybe her wild speculation tweets. Priestly is a loving douchebag, and I can't believe they haven't turned him loose yet. The kind of overt hostility and belittling tone of everything he says would have gotten him fired at any big firm hoping to salvage its public image.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:46 |
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Aristobulus posted:It's really not acceptable and it's a reason so many people are mad at Bioware over this. The problem is that Bioware isn't communicating as one company. Individual departments aren't talking to each other (as evidenced by Weekes comments themselves). As a result, the PR people aren't communicating strategy with public Bioware faces outside top management. Then when you've got Weekes answering questions like he did, the PR people have no coordinated (or coherent) response to it. It doesn't help that they didn't have a coordinated or coherent response to all the negativity in the first place either. It's just a colossal clusterfuck. One whose effects won't be fully seen for months (when actual paid DLC is available) or years (the next Bioware game comes out). Edited out incorrect assumption. colonelslime posted:Priestly is a loving douchebag, and I can't believe they haven't turned him loose yet. The kind of overt hostility and belittling tone of everything he says would have gotten him fired at any big firm hoping to salvage its public image. I have to believe this is another part of where most of Bioware isn't paying attention/getting briefed on what's happening with PR. Priestly can go off being his douchey self while no one in Bioware is really watching. Thwomp fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2012 around 20:58 |
| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:49 |
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Oxxidation posted:Merizan is just frustrating in a way you'd expect tight-lipped PR reps to be frustrating. Priestly and Woo are maladjusted children.  . It's such a slimy, underhanded tactic.BigBoss posted:What if Preistly, Merizan, et al worked at GE, McDonalds, Disney, or Ford and did the same thing? Aristobulus posted:It's really not acceptable and it's a reason so many people are mad at Bioware over this.  MY ARTISTIC INTEGRITY children has been built up, basically by the actions and conduct of five people.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:49 |
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One thing started to get under my skin after thinking about this whole game again: Cerberus. The writers seriously dropped the ball making them hilariously evil caricatures instead of more morally conflicted. They could have still been largely comprised of people who believed in their cause instead of part-husk, indoctrinated freaks. Better still, they could have explained Cerberus' growth by pointing out that Shepard spent the entire last game as a walking pro-Cerberus advertisement while saving the day. That way any atrocity they inflict could have some actual pathos for Shepard seeing as s/he's partially responsible for their good PR. The organization could even have served as a viable, if just barely acceptable, alternative to the shattered Alliance for Renegade Shepards. Instead, they were mindless goons that the game repeatedly said were wrong at every turn, but reassured Shepard had no culpability for anything that happened because s/he was the hero at all times. All the good people have abandoned Cerberus now, so you can shoot them all with no remorse at all. That kind of thing came off as condescending attempts to placate the player instead of any intelligent discussion. You couldn't even ignore them as they took up more than half the game's missions and got much more story presence than even the Reapers. Why couldn't the writers have just bit the bullet and made four games so we could get this Cerberus nonsense out of the way and focus on the real enemy and real war in the finale?
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:49 |
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Thwomp posted:The problem is that Bioware isn't communicating as one company. Individual departments aren't talking to each other (as evidenced by Weekes comments themselves and his specific comment about Sound doing something totally on their own). This didn't happen, I'm not sure where you're getting it.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:51 |
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colonelslime posted:Merizan hasn't been all that terrible, honestly. She'd be fine at other companies, except for maybe her wild speculation tweets. Priestly is a loving douchebag, and I can't believe they haven't turned him loose yet. The kind of overt hostility and belittling tone of everything he says would have gotten him fired at any big firm hoping to salvage its public image. He kind of reminds me of wasshisname - Joe Siegler? - at 3DRealms, who seemed happy to mock forum users, safe in his invincible status of Official Forum Mod For A Big Name Software Dev. I wouldn't have thought EA would put up with his poo poo, but as long as the money comes in I guess he's ok. And he does have to put up with BSN, I guess. Must count for something.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:53 |
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General Battuta posted:This didn't happen, I'm not sure where you're getting it. I meant more about Weekes' comment about Rayya falling out of the sky and how that came from Audio. edit: or was it just the idea of it came from Audio, which the writers took and put it in their Quarian destruction scene?
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:54 |
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I just had an interesting conversation with my brother, who was looking at this thread (but doesn't have an account) and was curious about why I thought Tali was wish fulfillment. I explained why I thought she had elements of that, and he gave me his take on the character. He saw her as a person in way over their head, but always willing to persevere and never cracking under pressure. Then, when her constant struggle for her people slows down for a second, she begins to open emotionally to someone for the first time in a while/ever, and she feels insecure about the relationship,(while still totally secure in killing Geth). After all, she is a fish out of water, in a galaxy that mostly treats her species like trash, and she isn't really proficient on reading human social cures. But, though a little flustered, she doesn't stop it from asking him about it. It's like the complete opposite of what the BSN'ers saw in her. I can actually see liking her character arc, viewed that way.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:56 |
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Thwomp posted:I meant more about Weekes' comment about Rayya falling out of the sky and how that came from Audio. Yeah, someone from audio came to them and said 'Wouldn't it be cool if it were the Rayya, can we do that?' And they thought it was awesome.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:57 |
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colonelslime posted:I just had an interesting conversation with my brother, who was looking at this thread (but doesn't have an account) and was curious about why I thought Tali was wish fulfillment. I explained why I thought she had elements of that, and he gave me his take on the character. That sounds like a nice way to put the character. BSN's legion of Talimancers get so obsessed with the breakdowns that they completely forget anything else to make her look like the perfect little wifu. That's part of the reason I like her much better as a non-romancable character. She's much better as a friend than otherwise.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:58 |
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General Battuta posted:Yeah, someone from audio came to them and said 'Wouldn't it be cool if it were the Rayya, can we do that?' And they thought it was awesome. Okay, I misinterpreted that comment. Still, if Bioware had a coherent PR strategy that was basically "shut everything up, downplay expectations, and misdirect everything until Extended Cut is released" they should've sent Weekes and everyone else at Bioware the memo.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 20:59 |
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Geostomp posted:One thing started to get under my skin after thinking about this whole game again: Cerberus. I agree. I remember on Horizon, when I was reading the little textlogs talking about needing to get rid of "surplus biomatter" and thinking: "Yes Bioware, I get it, Cerberus is experimenting on people and killing them. Yes, they show no remorse at the deaths. You've established this, can we move on?". ME was never all that nuanced or subtle, but they really started hammering home the good versus evil angle in ME3. Probably just more "True Art IS Dark" mentality seeping through.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:00 |
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Geostomp posted:One thing started to get under my skin after thinking about this whole game again: Cerberus. I would go beyond that and say that the entire main plot for the game isn't very good. ME2's main plot honestly wasn't that great either, so I wasn't particularly surprised or disappointed by that, but ME3 Cerberus in particular is just beyond bad. They're pretty much just...filler, mindless motivation-free baddies for the player to shoot in the time between actual plot scenes. They manage to contribute almost nothing whatsoever to the plot despite taking up more than half of the game's playing time, and could almost be safely eliminated from the narrative completely without having to change any major plot points.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:02 |
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Geostomp posted:Why couldn't the writers have just bit the bullet and made four games so we could get this Cerberus nonsense out of the way and focus on the real enemy and real war in the finale? To be fair, with how 3 played out it would have been awkward to split it up. Most of the focus was on getting allies, even if most of the fighting was with Cerberus. If they changed the first half of the game a bit and made it so after the Citadel attack you just go "okay, I'm sick of this poo poo." and the final mission is an attack on Cerberus HQ and you take TIM out there, I could see that working but it doesn't leave a hell of a lot for the finale. It would have been better if they'd done that, I just don't see how they could have made it work.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:04 |
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Mister Bates posted:I would go beyond that and say that the entire main plot for the game isn't very good. ME2's main plot honestly wasn't that great either, so I wasn't particularly surprised or disappointed by that, but ME3 Cerberus in particular is just beyond bad. They're pretty much just...filler, mindless motivation-free baddies for the player to shoot in the time between actual plot scenes. They manage to contribute almost nothing whatsoever to the plot despite taking up more than half of the game's playing time, and could almost be safely eliminated from the narrative completely without having to change any major plot points. Not to mention they set up TIM as an extremist, but one who was willing to take an active stand against the Reapers when nobody else was doing anything. Complexity! Then in ME3 everything TIM does is a result of indoctrination and Cerberus is just another excuse to show how evil the Bad Guys (tm) are.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:05 |
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colonelslime posted:Merizan hasn't been all that terrible, honestly. She'd be fine at other companies, except for maybe her wild speculation tweets. Priestly is a loving douchebag, and I can't believe they haven't turned him loose yet. The kind of overt hostility and belittling tone of everything he says would have gotten him fired at any big firm hoping to salvage its public image. I conflict with this really. I feel that Merizan and Priestly have established good cop/bad cop roles as CM's. CM's really should be more like Priestly - take no poo poo, dish out bans, draw extremely visible lines in the sand. They're all more than willing to jump into discussion, foster interaction, and keep things civil... But lately, more often than not, someone rages in with a "gently caress YOU BIOWARE YOU RUINED MY FAVORITE FAKE WORLD" and gets shut down, hard.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:07 |
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colonelslime posted:It's like the complete opposite of what the BSN'ers saw in her. I can actually see liking her character arc, viewed that way. Actually, that's what I find to be one of the most interesting parts of Talimancers - how vastly they misunderstand and miss the point about the character they obsess over it. They really do believe her to be a character that she really isn't, and they completely overplay single notes of something she says or her does, to make one small trait into her primary trait and totally ignore everything else about her. Basically, so that they can say she's totally a delicate flower that needs their protection and is just so pure and innocent. Even when if you actually look at her character, she's not any of this at all. Mister Bates posted:I would go beyond that and say that the entire main plot for the game isn't very good. ME2's main plot honestly wasn't that great either, so I wasn't particularly surprised or disappointed by that, but ME3 Cerberus in particular is just beyond bad. They're pretty much just...filler, mindless motivation-free baddies for the player to shoot in the time between actual plot scenes. They manage to contribute almost nothing whatsoever to the plot despite taking up more than half of the game's playing time, and could almost be safely eliminated from the narrative completely without having to change any major plot points. I don't think the overarching plot in any of the games is all that interesting. Really, I just find the main plots an excuse to do things with the characters, and see them grow and develop.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:10 |
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colonelslime posted:I agree. I remember on Horizon, when I was reading the little textlogs talking about needing to get rid of "surplus biomatter" and thinking: "Yes Bioware, I get it, Cerberus is experimenting on people and killing them. Yes, they show no remorse at the deaths. You've established this, can we move on?". Ugh, that was so poorly handled. They tried to build up to the Cerberus experimentation reveal for so long, but it's staring at you in the face for the whole game. By the time you're supposed to be like "MY GOD, THOSE MADMEN" you've already known what they were up to for hours.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:12 |
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Wikipedia Brown posted:Ugh, that was so poorly handled. They tried to build up to the Cerberus experimentation reveal for so long, but it's staring at you in the face for the whole game. By the time you're supposed to be like "MY GOD, THOSE MADMEN" you've already known what they were up to for hours. Yeah when I saw the ad for Sanctuary my first immediate thought was secret horrible Cerberus research facility.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:14 |
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Wikipedia Brown posted:Ugh, that was so poorly handled. They tried to build up to the Cerberus experimentation reveal for so long, but it's staring at you in the face for the whole game. By the time you're supposed to be like "MY GOD, THOSE MADMEN" you've already known what they were up to for hours. Hell, we knew what they were up to since we got a glimpse of a Trooper's face on Mars. We did not need them to hammer this home any further. I was ready to blow up the Cerberus base to get them out of this narrative twelve hours ago, designers.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:17 |
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colonelslime posted:Tali was wish fulfillment. I explained why I thought she had elements of that, and he gave me his take on the character. Tali is nothing but nerd wish fulfillment. She's the ultimate internet girlfriend that you can spoon! Think about it. You have a built in excuse to never see what she really looks like, so you never have to worry about having reality trump your imagination. She has a deep seated flaw, so she'll never have grounds reject even the most sweaty of losers. And you never have to worry about actually touching her in any way, and disappoint her with your spare tire and inability to achieve an erection with your woefully undersized penis. She can sit beside you in your basement of solitude, while at the same time being your semi-imaginary long distance E-girlfriend who would never leave you because she has no where else to go. She's the beautiful (in theory) bird with a broken wing that you never have to share your precious Cheet-O's with. She's perfect. I liked the character, but could never make her an LI in any of my dozens of playthroughs because those thoughts kept running through my head.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:18 |
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Frankenstyle posted:Tali is nothing but nerd wish fulfillment. She's the ultimate internet girlfriend that you can spoon! Think about it. You have a built in excuse to never see what she really looks like, so you never have to worry about having reality trump your imagination. She has a deep seated flaw, so she'll never have grounds reject even the most sweaty of losers. And you never have to worry about actually touching her in any way, and disappoint her with your spare tire and inability to achieve an erection with your woefully undersized penis. Also, you can get her rejected from her own people so she literally has nowhere else to go.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:22 |
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Psyker posted:I conflict with this really. I feel that Merizan and Priestly have established good cop/bad cop roles as CM's. CM's really should be more like Priestly - take no poo poo, dish out bans, draw extremely visible lines in the sand. They're all more than willing to jump into discussion, foster interaction, and keep things civil... But lately, more often than not, someone rages in with a "gently caress YOU BIOWARE YOU RUINED MY FAVORITE FAKE WORLD" and gets shut down, hard. There's a big difference between being a hardass and just being antagonistic to your customers. Priestly crossed that line some time ago. He acts more like a petty bully than a cold professional. fenghuang posted:Not to mention they set up TIM as an extremist, but one who was willing to take an active stand against the Reapers when nobody else was doing anything. Complexity! Then in ME3 everything TIM does is a result of indoctrination and Cerberus is just another excuse to show how evil the Bad Guys (tm) are. That's what pissed me off about TIM in this game. Before he was obviously not a good or trustworthy man, but you could respect his ideals and accomplishments. You never had to agree with his mindset or methods, but he had some good points that should not be ignored. There may be some conflict or betrayal in the future, but for now, you both know that there a much bigger fish to fry. Now he's just a generic megalomaniac who clearly has nothing useful to say. Geostomp fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2012 around 21:27 |
| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:24 |
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Perfect Potato posted:Yeah when I saw the ad for Sanctuary my first immediate thought was secret horrible Cerberus research facility. Not only that, you have the Elkoss affilliated volus on the Citadel explicitly calling it a scam and wishing he'd thought of it.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:25 |
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I don't understand how people keep saying Tali romance is wish-fulfillment as though every other romance option isn't? This game is a fantasy. You have big titted humans and aliens to romance by the dozens, or hard abbed, chitinous plated males. Yes let's set aside Tali and go for a healthy depiction of a woman and a relationship in Miranda 
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:26 |
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Frankenstyle posted:Tali is nothing but nerd wish fulfillment. She's the ultimate internet girlfriend that you can spoon! Think about it. You have a built in excuse to never see what she really looks like, so you never have to worry about having reality trump your imagination. She has a deep seated flaw, so she'll never have grounds reject even the most sweaty of losers. And you never have to worry about actually touching her in any way, and disappoint her with your spare tire and inability to achieve an erection with your woefully undersized penis. I only romanced her once in ME2 to see what happened. I haven't actually romanced her in ME3 (partly because I have yet to start a second play-through). Mainly for these reasons. loving nerds ruin everything.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:26 |
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Bizob posted:Not only that, you have the Elkoss affilliated volus on the Citadel explicitly calling it a scam and wishing he'd thought of it. Yeah but he thinks it's a scam because they're advertising luxury accommodations and he thinks it's a lice ridden skeezy motel with military rations.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:27 |
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:I don't understand how people keep saying Tali romance is wish-fulfillment as though every other romance option isn't? This game is a fantasy. You have big titted humans and aliens to romance by the dozens, or hard abbed, chitinous plated males. Honestly, the closest thing to a really healthy and nuanced relationship I saw, at least for male Shepards, was ME3 Liara. Mostly because the two actually kept focused on the mission of saving the galaxy instead of constantly fawning over each other. Of course that apparently comes off as cold or hostile to some who expect the usual, "syrup or sex" Bioware stuff.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:31 |
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:I don't understand how people keep saying Tali romance is wish-fulfillment as though every other romance option isn't? This game is a fantasy. You have big titted humans and aliens to romance by the dozens, or hard abbed, chitinous plated males. No poo poo. How is Liara or Garrus or Cortez any less pulpy or wish fulfillment-y than Tali? It's indicative of the genre. It's all well-written stuff, really, who cares. Geostomp posted:Honestly, the closest thing to a really healthy and nuanced relationship I saw, at least for male Shepards, was ME3 Liara. Mostly because the two actually kept focused on the mission of saving the galaxy instead of constantly fawning over each other. Did people really react negatively to the Liara romance in ME3? I loved it. I sort of assumed all the romances went like that.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:32 |
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Geostomp posted:Honestly, the closest thing to a really healthy and nuanced relationship I saw, at least for male Shepards, was ME3 Liara. Mostly because the two actually kept focused on the mission of saving the galaxy instead of constantly fawning over each other. Ehhh, I squirm at the dialog in ME1 because it comes out of the blue. Basically as soon as you pick her up off Therum she's like "Oh Shepard you are so fascinating". I think the payoff in ME2 is pretty fantastic though since it's so wrapped up in the Shadow Broker DLC. It's pretty good in 3 as well. This was actually the romance I did, you're kind of scaring me about doing a playthrough with any other romance if they're that different.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:34 |
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BigBoss posted:I've been watching this thing unfold over the past week or two and as someone in the marketing field, the whole thing is amazing to see. The story is playing out like an HBR case. It's really fascinating to be able to watch the mistakes and blunders that Bioware/EA have made through the process in real time. Sure, the game was lackluster and the endings were terrible, but their response has been mind boggling. We can only hope this ends up as an actual case. I'd love some insight into what EA/Bioware was actually thinking and trying to do, contrasted with what they're actually managing to do.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:36 |
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Ehhh, I squirm at the dialog in ME1 because it comes out of the blue. Basically as soon as you pick her up off Therum she's like "Oh Shepard you are so fascinating". I think the payoff in ME2 is pretty fantastic though since it's so wrapped up in the Shadow Broker DLC. It's pretty good in 3 as well. Oh, it was terrible in ME1, but it really did improve later.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:36 |
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VJeff posted:Did people really react negatively to the Liara romance in ME3? I loved it. I sort of assumed all the romances went like that. Well, there are people who just flat out hate Liara so they'd be negative to it from the start. People have their reasons, and all, anyway. Really, though, while I can understand some of the complaints about Liara's romance in ME1 - though I disagree with most of them, or disagree on the severity of it, I do think that Liara's romance, especially when you consider how it develops across the entire trilogy, and not just in one game, is absolutely amazing and has depth I've never seen in a videogame before. ME3 and LotSB of course, do it better than any other point in the trilogy - and LotSB might as well be ME3 content. Seriously though, I've never actually been invested in any videogame romance, before seeing Liara's romance. I just never cared about romances in videogames for a variety of reasons, and hers was just really well done, I think. Edit - oh my god whoever changed my title, this is loving doing it right. I don't know if you're the same guy and you finally grew a brain and some wit, or you're someone else who actually has a comedic bone somewhere in their body, but oh my gently caress is that picture for my avatar hilarious. I know the comic it stems from and all, but jesus man using that was a great idea. You're hilarious. 
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:42 |
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Yeah but he thinks it's a scam because they're advertising luxury accommodations and he thinks it's a lice ridden skeezy motel with military rations. Well, if he just came out and said that it was obviously a front for a Cerberus-funded house of genetic horrors, people would be suspicious of him when he turned out to be right. He was merely projecting a certain degree of ignorance to avoid that scenario.
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| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:42 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 21:29 |
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Ehhh, I squirm at the dialog in ME1 because it comes out of the blue. Basically as soon as you pick her up off Therum she's like "Oh Shepard you are so fascinating". I think the payoff in ME2 is pretty fantastic though since it's so wrapped up in the Shadow Broker DLC. It's pretty good in 3 as well. They're not terrible, but Liara's is probably the most subtle, and the least affected by the "Player Protagonist/subsidiary NPC" dynamic that makes Bioware romances so creepy. Liara is the only character who seems to exist apart from Sheppard, to have her own goals and be pursuing them, rather than waiting around for the commander to come proposition her whenever he feels like it. She feels mroe an equal than an attachment. But if other Bioware games didn't bother you too much, ME shouldn't, its romances are certainly better than Dragon Age's. VJeff posted:No poo poo. How is Liara or Garrus or Cortez any less pulpy or wish fulfillment-y than Tali? It's indicative of the genre. You have to understand that there are people out there who literally lust after these characters and write creep fanfiction about them. Anything that is isn't superficially obvious as a romance turns them off, since they have no experience with actual nuanced human interaction. Edit @ Aristobulus: Kai Leng strikes again. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten tired of it by now. How much money must he have spent on those titles. Cordyceps Headache fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2012 around 21:45 |
| # ? Apr 9, 2012 21:43 |
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