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Tufty
May 21, 2006

The Traffic Safety Squirrel

NINbuntu 64 posted:

I wish I could say. The fact they haven't released a gameplay video of any sort really bothers me.

They're supposed to be releasing some footage soon, within a week or so. I like the concept a lot, and while I don't think it's deliberate vapourware or a scam, I'm not too confident on them delivering what their page promises. Apparently they'll be using the Kickstarter to get to an alpha stage and then they'll be alpha funding the rest of the development. I'll definitely send them some money that way if it seems like they're reaching their goals.

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lordfrikk
Mar 11, 2010

casual lamer


I finally got to watch Jane Jensen's Kickstarter video and it was... weird. I wonder if she can come up with something good, I only played Gray Matter and it was fun, but I can see how someone can hate the end of the game. Also loved the music.

bomblol
Jul 17, 2009

my first crapatar


Megazver posted:

Also, is it me, or are the Dead Linger guys totally overreaching and are probably full of poo poo?

Yep, a lot of time spent on ModDB has jaded me from being hopeful about projects like this. Stuff exactly like this pops up all the time: a game with a couple modelors and some big ideas, usually involving open worlds and often involving zombies. Future vaporware.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006


PoisonedV posted:

Yep, a lot of time spent on ModDB has jaded me from being hopeful about projects like this. Stuff exactly like this pops up all the time: a game with a couple modelors and some big ideas, usually involving open worlds and often involving zombies. Future vaporware.

Yeah, if I had to choose between giving ten bucks to them or the old rpg lady, I'd give it to the lady.

dvorak
Sep 11, 2003

WARNING: Temporal rift detected!

Maybe we shouldn't have The Dead Linger listed as recommended in the OP then?

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

These Gauls are crazy.


emoticon posted:

If someone tells you his very first game is going to be exactly like a famous best-selling game, but better, run for the hills. Chances are poor that it will be anything resembling good.

This is not it at all. I was going to be confused by people not getting what they're trying to do with this game but I guess it's explained pretty terribly and only makes sense if you've played Minecraft and watched lots of their videos.

Anyway, it's not going for the minecraft approach at all. It's trying to be a "game creator" of sorts, where people create little, 1 to two hour adventures with simple tools (this is where the minecraft comes in, the interface for this would be similar), and other people play them. Then the gameplay in them would be like an action RPG lite, I suppose.

NINbuntu 64
Feb 10, 2007



Amppelix posted:

This is not it at all. I was going to be confused by people not getting what they're trying to do with this game but I guess it's explained pretty terribly and only makes sense if you've played Minecraft and watched lots of their videos.

Anyway, it's not going for the minecraft approach at all. It's trying to be a "game creator" of sorts, where people create little, 1 to two hour adventures with simple tools (this is where the minecraft comes in, the interface for this would be similar), and other people play them. Then the gameplay in them would be like an action RPG lite, I suppose.

Exactly. If anything, it's an RPGMaker "clone."

Tsurupettan
Mar 26, 2011

My many CoX, always poised, always ready, always willing to thrust.

NINbuntu 64 posted:

Exactly. If anything, it's an RPGMaker "clone."

ARPGMaker. poo poo, now I want to kick in my 15 bucks for sure.

NINbuntu 64
Feb 10, 2007



Tsurupettan posted:

ARPGMaker. poo poo, now I want to kick in my 15 bucks for sure.

That's why I kicked in my $25. If it lives up to even a bit of that it'll be something I could really get into.

Carol Pizzamom
Jul 13, 2006

a bear you feed is a bear and a steed


The YOGSVENTURES thing also says you can 'Mine the Depths for Cool poo poo And Theres En emies And Stuff' so it's got that element of minecraft as well although I imagine their main focus is the mapmaking.

Anyway it can only be a good thing. If you aren't paying for the kickstarter, then you have a chance of a good game existing that otherwise would've just been a few more minecraft videos.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



I know that if the project doesn't reach the target in the time limit, all the backers are refunded, but what happens if the project is cancelled after that, during development?

Even without a publisher's interference, there's a chance that the game hasn't been planned well, lacking in resources or is just technologically infeasible.

If the backers are making the gamble, then what incentive does the developer have to even finish the game? If the developers are making the gamble, then can they afford to reimburse their backers?

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


The Dead Linger guys made an update in their front page. It removed a couple zombified pictures of that bald man.
It is going to reach its goal. Shut up about delisting it and prepare to add it to the list of successes.

Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 18:21

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

That loving Sned posted:

I know that if the project doesn't reach the target in the time limit, all the backers are refunded, but what happens if the project is cancelled after that, during development?

Even without a publisher's interference, there's a chance that the game hasn't been planned well, lacking in resources or is just technologically infeasible.

If the backers are making the gamble, then what incentive does the developer have to even finish the game? If the developers are making the gamble, then can they afford to reimburse their backers?

It looks like people would have to sue to get their money back. It appears that there is no obligation for a kick-starter to actually finish its project.

bomblol
Jul 17, 2009

my first crapatar


Scalding Coffee posted:

The Dead Linger guys made an update in their front page. It removed a couple zombified pictures of that bald man.
It is going to reach its goal anyway. Shut up about delisting it and prepare to add it to the list of successes.

Holy poo poo, we're just being realistic. No need to get so defensive over it. And if it is successfully funded, that isn't a guarantee that it's going to get made, or be made well. it's just a guarantee that some amateurs have 60,000 dollars to waste in assets and licenses for an overambitious game.

lordfrikk
Mar 11, 2010

casual lamer


That loving Sned posted:

I know that if the project doesn't reach the target in the time limit, all the backers are refunded, but what happens if the project is cancelled after that, during development?

As far as Kickstarter is concerned, nothing. It's stated during the pledging process that there are no guarantees.

"Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. The claims and responsibilities of this project are solely its creator's."

emoticon
May 8, 2007


Amppelix posted:

This is not it at all. I was going to be confused by people not getting what they're trying to do with this game but I guess it's explained pretty terribly and only makes sense if you've played Minecraft and watched lots of their videos.

Anyway, it's not going for the minecraft approach at all. It's trying to be a "game creator" of sorts, where people create little, 1 to two hour adventures with simple tools (this is where the minecraft comes in, the interface for this would be similar), and other people play them. Then the gameplay in them would be like an action RPG lite, I suppose.

Even according to your explanation, it sounds like it will be minecraft but with adventure making tools on top? But if it isn't, I've yet to see a 3D game maker program that wasn't complete garbage (or a full-on licensed game engine), but maybe they'll be able to pull it off.

Spiky Ooze
Oct 27, 2005


emoticon posted:

Even according to your explanation, it sounds like it will be minecraft but with adventure making tools on top? But if it isn't, I've yet to see a 3D game maker program that wasn't complete garbage (or a full-on licensed game engine), but maybe they'll be able to pull it off.

Yeah from a realistic standpoint it just sounds like too much to accomplish. And some of the backer comments are just sad:

"I am 13 and I pledged 500 I am pretty sure a lot of the yogscast viewers are not five and they can at least give a dollar for now after all the yogscast has done a lot for u guys and also when I am older I am definenty getting a computer before I get a TV."

Taking money from naive children.

Tufty
May 21, 2006

The Traffic Safety Squirrel

Where are people getting the idea that this YOGScast game isn't going to be like Minecraft at all and will be just a game maker? I'm going to paste some bits from their Kickstarter below but replacing 'Yogventure' with 'Minecraft'.

quote:

Minecraft is going to be an open world sandbox game designed first and foremost as a multiplayer experience.

Generate fantastic new world terrain that is random and editable. This means the terrain will be vast, interesting and fully destructible - you'll be able to diggy diggy as much as you like or just say 'Balls to it!' and blow it all up!

Beautiful, randomly-generated game worlds that are different every time you start a new game of Minecraft.

Fully shapeable terrain - with the ability for players to raise a mountain range or create a vast ocean; you can effortlessly shape your world however you imagine it.

A rich underground to mine and explore - bristling with rare outcroppings of gems and crystals, hidden tombs and dark underground terrors that drop rare weapons and loot.

A fully-fleshed out crafting system.

Yeah, they've said they're putting a lot of emphasis on creating and sharing adventures and that a focus is "adventure maps from Minecraft" without the limitations.. However I don't get the impression at all that it will simply be you can either play in Editor mode and it's like RPGMaker/LittleBigPlanet create mode or you play in Play mode where you run around in the maps you or other people have made.

Master_Odin
Apr 15, 2010

My spear never misses its mark...

ladies


To be fair to the Dead Linger guys, they do have a game to their name (Detour), which while not as expansive, is a real actual game released on Steam.

LumberingTroll
Sep 9, 2007

Really it's not because
I don't like you...


The Dead Linger probably wont live up to most peoples expectations, people expect too much most of the time, but if they can do half of what they want, it will be worth the pledge. I enjoyed Fort Zombie because of the emphasis on survival, even though that game was awful in pretty much every way. I don't really understand all the doom-saying, if you don't want to back it then don't, there is no reason to try and persuade others not to. a $25 pledge is not much of a risk at all to most everyone, and if it pans out in any way, it will probably be worth $25 to get a copy of the game. If $25 is too much to risk blowing, then you probably need to just avoid Kickstarter all together.

Jesto
Dec 22, 2004

Balls.


Nevermind.

Jesto fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2014 around 16:10

LumberingTroll
Sep 9, 2007

Really it's not because
I don't like you...


pretty much the same mentality as pre-order bonuses.

emoticon
May 8, 2007


Spiky Ooze posted:

Yeah from a realistic standpoint it just sounds like too much to accomplish. And some of the backer comments are just sad:

"I am 13 and I pledged 500 I am pretty sure a lot of the yogscast viewers are not five and they can at least give a dollar for now after all the yogscast has done a lot for u guys and also when I am older I am definenty getting a computer before I get a TV."

Taking money from naive children.

drat, Kickstarter should have an age limit. Up until now, it hasn't been a problem but a lot of the Yogscast's fans are children, so who knows how many of them are giving away their allowances on some pie-in-the-sky idea? (And jesus, I wish I had $500 to give away when I was 13)

Dissapointed Owl
Jan 30, 2008

You wrote me a letter,
and this is how it went:


Spiky Ooze posted:

Yeah from a realistic standpoint it just sounds like too much to accomplish. And some of the backer comments are just sad:

"I am 13 and I pledged 500 I am pretty sure a lot of the yogscast viewers are not five and they can at least give a dollar for now after all the yogscast has done a lot for u guys and also when I am older I am definenty getting a computer before I get a TV."

Taking money from naive children.

i am 12 and what is this

Seriously, that's about as believable. I remember when I was 13 and had a credit card and 500 bucks to throw around. Good times.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.



emoticon posted:

drat, Kickstarter should have an age limit. Up until now, it hasn't been a problem but a lot of the Yogscast's fans are children, so who knows how many of them are giving away their allowances on some pie-in-the-sky idea? (And jesus, I wish I had $500 to give away when I was 13)
It does. I also doubt that's actually a 13 year old but who knows.

quote:

The Service is available only to individuals who are at least 18 years old. You represent and warrant that if you are an individual, you are at least 18 years old and of legal age to form a binding contract, and that all registration information you submit is accurate and truthful.

HondaCivet
Oct 16, 2005

And then it falls
And then I fall
And then I know


Jesto posted:

Why does nearly every single Kickstarter say "Donate $ and you will get some really cool stuff in game that no one else who never donated during the Kickstarter process will ever be able to get"?

It really makes people who weren't aware your game existed until after the Kickstarter process not want to buy your game.

To help convince people to contribute for fear that they'll miss out? To encourage them to jump up a tier or two for a cool exclusive prize? To thank people for chipping in to help finish an unfinished project with an uncertain future? You'd have to be a pretty big baby to refuse to buy a game because people who contributed to the game before it even existed got a prize and you didn't.

Toxxupation
Jan 18, 2009

what even the heck


HondaCivet posted:

To help convince people to contribute for fear that they'll miss out? To encourage them to jump up a tier or two for a cool exclusive prize? To thank people for chipping in to help finish an unfinished project with an uncertain future? You'd have to be a pretty big baby to refuse to buy a game because people who contributed to the game before it even existed got a prize and you didn't.

Yeah, this sort of mentality is really pretty dumb (you also see that whine all the time whenever a game has store-dependent pre-order bonuses). I'd understand if it were something really hugely important like ME3's Collector Edition exclusive character (which was still day one DLC iirc), but every single time it's like a reskinned weapon or something dumb like that. The amount of a huff people get into about stuff like this is really just surprising.

Master_Odin
Apr 15, 2010

My spear never misses its mark...

ladies


Occupation posted:

Yeah, this sort of mentality is really pretty dumb (you also see that whine all the time whenever a game has store-dependent pre-order bonuses). I'd understand if it were something really hugely important like ME3's Collector Edition exclusive character (which was still day one DLC iirc), but every single time it's like a reskinned weapon or something dumb like that. The amount of a huff people get into about stuff like this is really just surprising.
$50 for Dead Linger gives you the biggest backpack. Breaks balance of the game and makes me want to not buy it.

lordfrikk
Mar 11, 2010

casual lamer


Dissapointed Owl posted:

Seriously, that's about as believable. I remember when I was 13 and had a credit card and 500 bucks to throw around. Good times.

My thoughts exactly. I don't expect their parents to let them use their credit card to pay for a non-existent game. 500 bucks no less, haha.

LumberingTroll
Sep 9, 2007

Really it's not because
I don't like you...


Dead linger just got funded.

Jesto
Dec 22, 2004

Balls.


Nevermind.

Jesto fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2014 around 16:10

Toxxupation
Jan 18, 2009

what even the heck


Jesto posted:

I just think preorder bonuses and all things similar to them that grant exclusive in-game additions (assuming they're more than Boots of +1) that no one else can ever acquire are a pretty terrible idea all around.

I don't think that case exists. I cannot think of one single instance in any videogame, ever, where this is true.

And I mean, it just makes sense. Why would a developer spend all of that loving time developing a whole new level/character/etc that only a minority of their audience would be able to see. And in the few cases where the developer does do such a thing (closest case I can think of is, again, the Prothean in ME3), why wouldn't they monetize it to make the extra cash?

BobTheJanitor
Jun 28, 2003



Tufty posted:

Yeah, they've said they're putting a lot of emphasis on creating and sharing adventures and that a focus is "adventure maps from Minecraft" without the limitations.. However I don't get the impression at all that it will simply be you can either play in Editor mode and it's like RPGMaker/LittleBigPlanet create mode or you play in Play mode where you run around in the maps you or other people have made.

Part of it is guess work, because their page really isn't as exact as I'd like it to be. But knowing their past experience with Minecraft adventure maps, it seems highly likely that it's going to be something a lot like that. After having to see all the odd contortions that adventure map creators have to go through to make maps that play well, they should have at least some expertise to bring to the table to make a game that fixes all those issues.

And some of those things you listed aren't actually in Minecraft at all. It doesn't actually have any big world shaping tools built in, just small scale things like creative mode. I definitely wouldn't want to try to build a mountain or an ocean in creative mode, it would take hours and hours of tedious block placement. Also Minecraft monsters don't drop 'rare weapons and loot', they drop the same bones or string or zombie meat every time.

It sounds like they're planning something that's a combination of the MC Worldedit mod and adventure maps without all the drawbacks, of which there are many. I don't know, though, because they appear to have just posted it and gone out for the weekend. Maybe they'll get around to doing some PR and answering questions next week. Until they do we can just keep speculating and attacking or defending it on shaky evidence. (Yes, I know I'm just as guilty of that)

Edit: One of the actual programmers posted a wall of text here. He describes it as "minecraft meets little big planet meets an old school D&D match."

BobTheJanitor fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 23:17

emoticon
May 8, 2007


BobTheJanitor posted:

After having to see all the odd contortions that adventure map creators have to go through to make maps that play well, they should have at least some expertise to bring to the table to make a game that fixes all those issues.

I don't think playing a bunch of poo poo adventure maps somehow grants them the ability to design a functioning and easy to use scripting system.

edit:

BobTheJanitor posted:

Edit: One of the actual programmers posted a wall of text here. He describes it as "minecraft meets little big planet meets an old school D&D match."

Uhhhhhhh... remember my warning about people who claim their game will be "like famous game X but better"? It goes triple for people who claim their game will be like "famous games X, Y, Z combined!" Like that pizza millionaire guy, or this guy.

emoticon fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 23:24

njark
Apr 26, 2008

Show them the Wasteland


LumberingTroll posted:

Dead linger just got funded.

calling it as the first kickstarter bust since the bubble.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


Master_Odin posted:

$50 for Dead Linger gives you the biggest backpack. Breaks balance of the game and makes me want to not buy it.
It's a badass backpack, a large-size, badass backpack the biggest of the three sizes -- in fact. It is the backbone, quite literally, of your TDL scavenging experience. It also has a small movement speed boost!

It is huge compared to the smaller sizes and with hyper boosters. Truly only for the rich people.


I think being able to participate in the Alpha testing with the possibility of heavily influencing the game during that time is worth extra.

Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2012 around 23:50

BobTheJanitor
Jun 28, 2003



emoticon posted:

I don't think playing a bunch of poo poo adventure maps somehow grants them the ability to design a functioning and easy to use scripting system.

Yes, you figured it out. The guys whose main marketable skill is acting like doofy goons while making silly internet videos are going to do all the design and coding themselves. The money is actually for them to take an introduction to C programming course.

emoticon
May 8, 2007


BobTheJanitor posted:

Yes, you figured it out. The guys whose main marketable skill is acting like doofy goons while making silly internet videos are going to do all the design and coding themselves. The money is actually for them to take an introduction to C programming course.

Considering that all the "contortions" adventure map designers have to go through are because of a lack of a proper scripting system, you tell me what other "expertise [they would] bring to the table to make a game that fixes all those issues" would be then?

Seashell Salesman
Aug 4, 2005


The Dead Linger devs are smart to use kickstarter to raise some initial money to start alpha-funding. I think the game wouldn't be much more ambitious than Mount & Blade (solo dev, alpha-funded) except that they want to implement multiplayer. The huge open maps and multiplayer stick out to me as the things that they will have trouble delivering, and I won't be surprised if one or both of those get dropped during development. I think putting the digital download of the game at $25 was a big mis-step though, FTL, DFA, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun, all of them $15 for the digital download. Lots of alpha-funded games have gone for less than $15 initially (and that's after the alpha was available).

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HondaCivet
Oct 16, 2005

And then it falls
And then I fall
And then I know


Jesto posted:

I just think preorder bonuses and all things similar to them that grant exclusive in-game additions (assuming they're more than Boots of +1) that no one else can ever acquire are a pretty terrible idea all around. If they were sold as DLC for people who weren't aware the kickstarter existed once the game launched I wouldn't have a problem with them, though.

I think it would depend on the size and awesomeness of the addition. I agree that cutting off sections of the game or really useful fun items from non-backers would be lovely. As others said, that would be kind of a stupid thing to do. I think that cosmetic things would be mostly OK. WoW is full of mounts and now-useless weapons and items that you can't get anymore so that's pretty normal. Also I originally thought you were talking about the exclusive t-shirts and posters and things that some Kickstarters are giving out. I was imagining some dude getting all pouty because the Kickstarters got a cool tshirt that he can't buy.

HondaCivet fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2012 around 01:48

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