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i got the most respect for programmers because goddamn is that some dull work to make these games go.
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Sep 5, 2015 03:03
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Thank you.
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Sep 5, 2015 03:21
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Eh, programming has its own merits. Although, it does suck to spend so much time writing scripts for your own game only for it to look like poo poo because the only artistic thing you know is slapping MSPaint textures on Unity prefabs.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:47
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On the other side you have artists who create these amazing animated mock ups of games-that-could-be but programming is a solid brick wall.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:03
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al-azad posted:On the other side you have artists who create these amazing animated mock ups of games-that-could-be but programming is a solid brick wall. There are no brick walls, just artists unwilling to work outside their areas of expertise  Like, programmers who can't draw or write or compose, yeah I sympathize with you, there's only so much you can learn about a subject before you need more than just an education on it. I can't compose, I'm in a place where I know the principles of music but I just don't have any talent for it whatsoever beyond listening and playing. Subjective fields are weird. At least programming is, in its most basic form, purely objective logic and math, and anyone who is sufficiently determined can eventually grind it out. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 06:18
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Sure, you can grind it out but will you be as efficient and organized as someone who can really think critically like its second nature? Art is a skill like programming but sure, you can narrow down 1s and 0s more than why your art or music isn't appealing.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:49
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I dont think it takes more than 10-12 years of being alive to figure out whether you can cover both sides of the spectrum. I've know a lot of artistically talented people, maybe 5% could have pulled off game programming if they put their mind to it, and I have a lot of admiration for them. Also, most of them eventually become architects. I don't think I could if my life depended on it.
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Sep 5, 2015 08:42
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The White Dragon posted:There are no brick walls, just artists unwilling to work outside their areas of expertise I would say this is only true for a solo project, where it's kind of okay being the bottleneck on programming, if for works it works even if it is a duct tape and hope affair. Once you're talking about providing a platform for taking multiple artists'/designers' content and game logic to make it real, you need proper systems thinking and the art is in taking your specifications and working it down to a logical system. THAT'S the difference an experienced development team brings to the table, turning the swirling ether of ideas and decisions into a solid working system is challenging and requires a clear knack for turning the vague into the concrete. It's very difficult to fake that, and messing it up can result in deeply structural issues that are expensive to fix.
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Sep 5, 2015 12:10
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At least you can create a demo with 100% placeholder art. You can't create a demo with 100% placeholder code. (Though a kickstarter entirely made out of concept art is infinitely more likely to get funded than a kickstarter with a playable demo with lovely temporary art) When it comes to which is most expensive and time consuming, art vs code - it's a bit like comparing apples and cars. Coding a game is a lot of work, but the amount of work is roughly the same independent of the size of the game world. Art scales more linearly - as the world size increases, so does the budget for content creation. For a lot of indies that are small in scope, programming costs will outweigh art costs, but for larger games, content creation dominates the budget.
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Sep 5, 2015 13:11
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the only reason i could never make a vidya game is because programming is tedious and boring and hats off to all of you that grind that poo poo out day in day out.
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Sep 5, 2015 13:31
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We only hate ourselves a little bit!
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Sep 5, 2015 14:01
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Yodzilla posted:We only hate ourselves a little bit!
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Sep 5, 2015 15:09
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I took a Pascal class in high school and Perl in college and that was enough to teach me I'm terrible at programming and went into other aspects of IT instead.
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Sep 5, 2015 15:18
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Everyone should play Fran Bow. That is all.
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Sep 5, 2015 22:15
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I would think with tools like Game Maker there would be less cases of artists + idea guys unwilling to actually make the game.
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Sep 5, 2015 23:16
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Yodzilla posted:We only hate ourselves a little bit! Don't worry, you're making games so your audience inherently hates you even more.
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Sep 5, 2015 23:30
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Lord Lambeth posted:I would think with tools like Game Maker there would be less cases of artists + idea guys unwilling to actually make the game. even UE4 and Unity are pretty decent for us lazy asses that can't program worth poo poo.
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Sep 5, 2015 23:42
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Lord Lambeth posted:I would think with tools like Game Maker there would be less cases of artists + idea guys unwilling to actually make the game.
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Sep 5, 2015 23:49
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Lord Lambeth posted:I would think with tools like Game Maker there would be less cases of artists + idea guys unwilling to actually make the game. That would mean coming out of their comfort zone of talking about their giant woman fighting game.
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Sep 5, 2015 23:54
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Not everyone can be Josh Tejada.
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Sep 6, 2015 00:23
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Lord Lambeth posted:I would think with tools like Game Maker there would be less cases of artists + idea guys unwilling to actually make the game. Even with those tools shouldering so much of the load there's still a whole lot of stuff you have to do before you can see your big ideas on the screen.
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Sep 6, 2015 12:28
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Maybe "designer" should be deleted from all companies in the future and replaced with "design and implementation" to avoid this confusion. 
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Sep 7, 2015 08:04
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GreenNight posted:I took a Pascal class in high school and Perl in college and that was enough to teach me I'm terrible at programming and went into other aspects of IT instead. Back in high school I learned basic programming, which means I know my way around various loops and syntax and how to do a bubblesort. Unfortunately I hang out around actual coders, to whom "basic programming" means something much more complex. Nothing like gaining a little bit of knowledge to make you feel stupid.
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Sep 7, 2015 08:10
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Oh lord, that Eco kickstarter I talked about before has been a bit of a bumpy ride. quote:In Eco, there are no monsters, it is humanity itself that is its own enemy. Throughout the campaign, backers have asked 'what about the trolls', as any online game is sure to attract them. The answer is that in Eco, they will serve a gameplay purpose; they are the villains of the game, the source of conflict that players supporting society must collaborate against, using government, laws and the criminal justice system. This tier gives those working against society additional tremendous power, and a new world threat that players must plan for. Emphasis mine. They're setting up a new tier in the KS with 2 days left to try and get the worst griefers to chip in enough money to get to the next stretch goal, while giving them exclusive abilities to destroy servers. I don't know whether to giggle or sigh. e: That said, it is disable-able on private servers, and the public servers are sure to be filled with crap anyway, so.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:51
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Red Mike posted:Emphasis mine. They're setting up a new tier in the KS with 2 days left to try and get the worst griefers to chip in enough money to get to the next stretch goal, while giving them exclusive abilities to destroy servers. I don't know whether to giggle or sigh. Yeah seems like a real desperation move, which I don't quite understand because it reached it's goal already.  Surely they could work on the similar upgrades after the game goes gold and starts making some income? It's not an all or nothing approach, is it? This seems like something a company would pull if they still had a few thousand to go, not at nearly 200% funded. Also it is limited to only 50, which I suppose helps if the player base will be in the thousands.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:04
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Eco sounded like it might have been an interesting game if they managed to balance it just right. Choosing to hard bake griefing into the game at this early stage is a pretty good sign it isn't going to get to that point.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:54
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Have they started implementing any of this? When I saw them at pax they had a decent pitch but gameplay wise it just looked like any other half built voxel engine. It was kinda funny hearing their big plans on ecology and full eco system modeling while watching a couple animal models awkwardly pathfind around a fairly empty block world. I dig the idea of all this high school model UN crammed into Minecraft but I just see most of it actually working out poorly and having to be cut. Not sure how well that's gonna go if they have backer rewards tied into these big idea features.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:38
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tiny & Tall: Gleipnir is a rather pretty point-and-clicker about two blacksmiths tasked to forge an unbreakable link to hold Fenrir. It's asking for 8k.    
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Sep 8, 2015 08:31
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Megazver posted:tiny & Tall: Gleipnir is a rather pretty point-and-clicker about two blacksmiths tasked to forge an unbreakable link to hold Fenrir. It's asking for 8k. Yes! Discovered them on twitter of all places. Art is good looking, ask is (too) low. I'm really digging the atmospheric backgrounds, animation could use a little more work, but hey it's a one man project.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:20
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Megazver posted:tiny & Tall: Gleipnir is a rather pretty point-and-clicker about two blacksmiths tasked to forge an unbreakable link to hold Fenrir. It's asking for 8k.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:36
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France is the new Germany of adventure games. A little off-topic, reminded me of the Coral Cave, looked up to see if they have anything new on youtube and I realized this gameplay video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MX2UowmwSE is exactly two years old. Hand painting and animating an adventure game is crazy time-consuming, mes amis.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:42
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Point and clicks have a decent following in France.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:58
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Kurtofan posted:Point and clicks have a decent following in France. Some people never got the memo that PC gaming has gone beyond the point and click adventure.
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Sep 8, 2015 18:11
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Turtle Sandbox posted:Some people never got the memo that PC gaming has gone beyond the point and click adventure. point and click adventure is the apex of pc gaming, along with isometric rpg.
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Sep 8, 2015 18:18
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Kurtofan posted:point and click adventure is the apex of pc gaming, along with isometric rpg. Most isometric RPGs would be improved if they went full adventure and just dumped the D20 combat, who wants to play planescape torment, Im in it to read it.
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Sep 8, 2015 19:51
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Turtle Sandbox posted:Most isometric RPGs would be improved if they went full adventure and just dumped the D20 combat, who wants to play planescape torment, Im in it to read it. I wouldn't say most but planescape as a sandbox visual novel would definitely work, yeah. Keep an eye on Wadjet Eye Games' next title. Dave Gilbert is working on a sandbox urban fantasy adventure game.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:05
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Turtle Sandbox posted:Most isometric RPGs would be improved if they went full adventure and just dumped the D20 combat, who wants to play planescape torment, Im in it to read it. I'd say the same thing about adventure games and puzzles. The "walking simulators" go a little too far, there should be some interactivity, but when I take a shower in the morning I don't have to turn on my boiler using a wrench shaped monkey I lured into my house with a banana I picked up yesterday in a shopping cart that was guarded by a violent child who was easily distracted by the lollipop I picked up from the doctor who I couldn't visit until I caught the flu from the very child I was trying to distract.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:06
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al-azad posted:I'd say the same thing about adventure games and puzzles. The "walking simulators" go a little too far, there should be some interactivity, but when I take a shower in the morning I don't have to turn on my boiler using a wrench shaped monkey I lured into my house with a banana I picked up yesterday in a shopping cart that was guarded by a violent child who was easily distracted by the lollipop I picked up from the doctor who I couldn't visit until I caught the flu from the very child I was trying to distract. Your shower doesn't involve a fake cat hair moustache so I think your puzzle is too easy for advanced adventure gamers like myself.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:13
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al-azad posted:I'd say the same thing about adventure games and puzzles. The "walking simulators" go a little too far, there should be some interactivity, but when I take a shower in the morning I don't have to turn on my boiler using a wrench shaped monkey I lured into my house with a banana I picked up yesterday in a shopping cart that was guarded by a violent child who was easily distracted by the lollipop I picked up from the doctor who I couldn't visit until I caught the flu from the very child I was trying to distract. To be fair, those kinda of adventure games were the reason the genre died. My impression is that modern adventure games have learned that lesson.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:34
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Oasx posted:To be fair, those kinda of adventure games were the reason the genre died. My impression is that modern adventure games have learned that lesson. I'd say the only thing different now is that you can't die or get stuck. And what's frustrating is that the core adventure game audience still loves this stuff. Like Broken Age part 1 was pretty good, a little basic but a nice start. Then all the backers complained about it being too easy so Part 2 came out to remind everyone why adventure games fell out of mainstream.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:45
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