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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:That's the main reason I want Indivisible to succeed - setting up a stable network for producing new top-tier HD 2D games is difficult and time-consuming and if Lab Zero dies it'll be a long time before anyone can take their place. Except Indivisible has that ugly 3d background thing going on.
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Dec 1, 2015 01:54
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Xrd looks fantastic but it still requires a lot of work (comparable to the amount of making a real 2D character, says ArkSys, although the amount of upfront work can be offset over time) as well as expertise that a company like Inti Creates simply doesn't have. That's why I'm skeptical about Bloodstained - yeah, they have more money to spend across fewer platforms but they're still not adept at 3D visuals and handwaving it by saying "yea but Xrd!" doesn't really mean a whole lot coming from Inti. Motto posted:He probably means sprite-based 2D. Gunvolt uses sprites and it has better odds of becoming a franchise than MN9. Well, putting aside the fact that their 2D people were busy with Gunvolt, there are lots of (younger) people who don't care for traditional pixel art and can't distinguish good pixel art from bad, so if you're making a game that you want to appeal to a contemporary audience, you go with 3D. (That ignores the fact that this was a nostalgia pitch from day one, but whatever). I'm sure there were longer-term business reasons for doing what they did, too: if you want work from international clients you need to familiarise yourself with either UE or Unity, so they probably saw this as an opportunity to familiarise themselves with new tech. I don't know why they'd risk doing this on a crowdfunded project but whatever, it's their reputation. Groovelord Neato posted:do you mean in terms of people expecting 3d due to the amount raised? shovel knight is one of the biggest kickstarter success stories and it looked like an NES game. I mean $4m simply doesn't go as far as people might expect when you're working with a traditional salaried studio and you have to account for a zillion SKUs, plus backer rewards and whatever else. The other thing to remember about Shovel Knight is that, by their estimation, that pseudo-NES game would have cost ~$1.5m to make at a traditional salaried studio and the only reason it got made for ~350k was because they paid themselves a pittance and used the proceeds from the main game to pay for all their stretch goal content.
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Dec 1, 2015 01:57
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Small japanese dev that's never been great at 3D + relatively small budget split across 8 platforms with wildly varying specs, pretty much. They really should have gone the Shantae/Ducktales HD route of 2D characters on 3D environments, at the very least. Hopefully for them it plays decently on release. Have they been tweaking gameplay in the delay?
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Dec 1, 2015 02:07
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I think Bloodstained will be fine, because IGA actually gives a poo poo about making a good Metroidvania and has the experience while Inafune clearly just wanted to make a franchise in order to hock poo poo and not a good game first. Also that short early gameplay video that they showed during the campaign looked good.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:08
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I backed MN9 because at the time I thought "Awesome! Maybe they'll do a Mega Man Legends-like game one day if this gets funded!" Ha.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:09
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Modus Pwnens posted:Except Indivisible has that ugly 3d background thing going on. I gave them a pass on that because it's a demo and I know they've done great backgrounds on skull girls.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:13
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Wandering Knitter posted:I backed MN9 because at the time I thought "Awesome! Maybe they'll do a Mega Man Legends-like game one day if this gets funded!" Hey, that actually did happen so you weren't wrong.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:19
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Lord Lambeth posted:I gave them a pass on that because it's a demo and I know they've done great backgrounds on skull girls. They'll probably look better in the final game but the 3D environments are here to stay.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:22
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ImpAtom posted:Hey, that actually did happen so you weren't wrong. 
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Dec 1, 2015 02:22
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Motto posted:He probably means sprite-based 2D. Gunvolt uses sprites and it has better odds of becoming a franchise than MN9. Sprites are still way more expensive than simple 3D. Groovelord Neato posted:oh yeah i forgot about that slick 2D looking shading they do now. 
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Dec 1, 2015 02:24
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:They'll probably look better in the final game but the 3D environments are here to stay. Weren't the Skullgirls backgrounds at least partially 3d models? They're underrated imo, they're not literally 2D looking but not jarring and really atmospheric.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:27
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ImpAtom posted:Hey, that actually did happen so you weren't wrong. Straight-up monkey paw bullshit.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:27
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mycot posted:Weren't the Skullgirls backgrounds at least partially 3d models? They're underrated imo, they're not literally 2D looking but not jarring and really atmospheric. Probably. IIRC the engine is 3D but is cleverly arranged to look 2D.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:32
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Yeah, there are true 3D elements that are replaced with 2D bitmaps for the lower-spec settings and the arcade port. I don't mind 2D-on-3D all that much and it's certainly preferable to 3D-on-2D.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:37
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I don't know if anyone here remembers "Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines" and how CCP was supposed to make a WoD MMO, but then they bailed. Apparently a bunch of fan developers put together a kickstarter (complete with a working prototype with some gameplay shown) for a indie Vampire MMO with focus on social stuff (read backstabbing your pubbie 'friends' and hopefully being able to drain them of their blood, take all their powers and perma kill their character) and things like permadeath. I would love it if it actually made it through the gate, though I imagine people are pretty cynical about kickstarters by now. It's here if anyone's interested in it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/prelude/dogma-eternal-night/description
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Dec 1, 2015 04:33
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I don't know if I'm cynical about kickstarters, but to say that I'm cynical about hobbyist developers making an MMO would be an extreme understatement. I don't trust hobby developers to make an ASCII roguelike
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Dec 1, 2015 04:39
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Cetea posted:I don't know if anyone here remembers "Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines" and how CCP was supposed to make a WoD MMO, but then they bailed. Apparently a bunch of fan developers put together a kickstarter (complete with a working prototype with some gameplay shown) for a indie Vampire MMO with focus on social stuff (read backstabbing your pubbie 'friends' and hopefully being able to drain them of their blood, take all their powers and perma kill their character) and things like permadeath. I would love it if it actually made it through the gate, though I imagine people are pretty cynical about kickstarters by now. Why not just wait for Paradox to do something with the license?
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Dec 1, 2015 04:45
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Cetea posted:I don't know if anyone here remembers "Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines" and how CCP was supposed to make a WoD MMO, but then they bailed. Apparently a bunch of fan developers put together a kickstarter (complete with a working prototype with some gameplay shown) for a indie Vampire MMO with focus on social stuff (read backstabbing your pubbie 'friends' and hopefully being able to drain them of their blood, take all their powers and perma kill their character) and things like permadeath. I would love it if it actually made it through the gate, though I imagine people are pretty cynical about kickstarters by now. Assuming it's not a scam by some Russians claiming to be operating out of the 100-population town of Elmore, Alabama, it's still an incredibly blatant ripoff of an established and copyrighted IP. Also nobody has ever wanted a game driven by character-focused social exchanges combined with a permadeath system except for the few thousand sociopaths still jonesing for their post-UO fix.
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Dec 1, 2015 04:51
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I imagine Paradox will probably just make an RPG with the licence first, as it's pretty much guaranteed that it will sell well giving it's solid fan base. While I'd definitely buy that too, I've wanted something that isn't EvE to scratch the social MMO phantom itch that I've been having after WoD got cancelled. If Paradox does decide to continue development on the WoD MMO though, I'd be a very happy person indeed! CK2 Metagame with Bloodlines like main gameplay anyone? Still, I've looked at the updates and the existing stuff for the Dogma kickstarter though, and it looks promising, seeing as they already have fleshed out ideas and actual videos of in game footage, which is more than what Elite: Dangerous had at this stage in development, so you could say that I'm being cautiously optimistic about the project. Prop Wash posted:Assuming it's not a scam by some Russians claiming to be operating out of the 100-population town of Elmore, Alabama, it's still an incredibly blatant ripoff of an established and copyrighted IP. Also nobody has ever wanted a game driven by character-focused social exchanges combined with a permadeath system except for the few thousand sociopaths still jonesing for their post-UO fix. And if it is a scam, they've certainly done a lot of work on it, considering that they have a main site that has been running ever since WoD was cancelled with dev videos on early builds and ideas. I think it's been in development for almost two years now, so I'm not worried about people taking the money and running away with it. Oh and if you read the dev blogs, you pretty much have to choose to be able to be perma-killed before you can actually be killed for good, risk/reward and all that. Cetea fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 1, 2015 |
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Dec 1, 2015 04:58
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Given all that's been written about the WoD MMO, continued development seems like an impossibility, more or less
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Dec 1, 2015 05:02
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I wonder how much failed Kickstarters have poisoned the pool, and how much that poison is diluted by the hype for Kickstarters that went really well and delivered solidly. I see nothing but a lot of cynicism and doubt for nearly every project these days, and rightfully so when so many projects have failed or are delivered to the table as barely working garbage.
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Dec 1, 2015 05:04
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If anyone says they're going to make an MMO and their team has less than 100 people on it you should probably wait before throwing your money away.
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Dec 1, 2015 05:04
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Indie MMO sounds like an oxymoron imo. I can't think of a MMO that did not have the backing of a big publisher. Except MUDs I guess.
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Dec 1, 2015 05:20
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Or Eve.
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Dec 1, 2015 05:49
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How's that city of heroes MMO revival project going?
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Dec 1, 2015 06:32
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Black August posted:I wonder how much failed Kickstarters have poisoned the pool, and how much that poison is diluted by the hype for Kickstarters that went really well and delivered solidly. I see nothing but a lot of cynicism and doubt for nearly every project these days, and rightfully so when so many projects have failed or are delivered to the table as barely working garbage. We are way past the gold rush, so to survive and get funded you either need to be humble about your scope and promises or hire dedicated managers to handle your campaign.
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Dec 1, 2015 08:31
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Lord Lambeth posted:Indie MMO sounds like an oxymoron imo. I can't think of a MMO that did not have the backing of a big publisher. Except MUDs I guess. What happened to Jane Austen Online? Last time I checked it was still getting regular updates. (I'll admit I want it to succeed because of the absurdity of the premise.)
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Dec 1, 2015 12:39
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Lord Lambeth posted:Indie MMO sounds like an oxymoron imo. I can't think of a MMO that did not have the backing of a big publisher. Except MUDs I guess. Crowfall is doing okay so far, from what I can tell without being in their alpha. They started out with a very reasonable concept and budget for it. Camelot Unchained's backers don't seem to be revolting yet either.
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Dec 1, 2015 12:46
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Trove, maybe? To the 'MMO Without publisher backing'. Trion Worlds self published.
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Dec 1, 2015 13:04
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Trion Worlds is kind of a big MMO publisher on their own, though.
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Dec 1, 2015 13:23
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Save your breath, dude, MMO kickstarters get very short shrift in this thread and for good reason. There's a Dogmat thread in the HMO. You'll have a much better time preaching to the choir.
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Dec 1, 2015 13:57
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Megazver posted:Crowfall is doing okay so far, from what I can tell without being in their alpha. They started out with a very reasonable concept and budget for it. Neither of those are real games yet though. As someone who's shitposted in the threads for both of those, they also have some big warning signs. Crowfall turned their forums pay-to-post, and didn't look amazingly well managed before that. Unchained has so many loose ends and weird design bits that it looks hard for it not to be a broken mess.
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Dec 1, 2015 14:54
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Pseudoscorpion posted:Was just about to post this. Xrd does a loving ton with clever shading and an orthographic (quasi-2D) projection, and I'd still bet that it took them way less effort than animating each character by hand. Xrd requires a lot of tweaking to get the models right - a lot of the shading has to be done by hand, for example. It may seem simple in theory but it's actually a lot of painstaking work to maintain that faux-animation look.
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Dec 1, 2015 16:06
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Yeah, there's not a whole lot in the way of unique custom-made tech in Xrd - it's "just" a lot of hard work utilizing tech that has mostly existed for years, just not combined in that way. Here's a GDC video that details their workflow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGjCzxJV3E
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Dec 1, 2015 16:14
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On the topic of 2D engines, I remember Michel Ancel saying that he wanted the engine that was used for Rayman Legends/Origins to be made more available to outside developers. In a perfect world that would have already happened. 
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Dec 1, 2015 17:02
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Lord Lambeth posted:On the topic of 2D engines, I remember Michel Ancel saying that he wanted the engine that was used for Rayman Legends/Origins to be made more available to outside developers. In a perfect world that would have already happened.  so they kept the engine to themselves and took all the marketing material down.
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Dec 1, 2015 18:28
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Litany Unheard posted:If anyone says they're going to make an MMO and their team has less than 100 people on it you should probably wait before throwing your money away. isn't project gorgon one guy and that's the best mmo of the past decade.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:03
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Indivisible is at 1.4mil with 3 days to go, so odds are it will probably make it.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:27
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SupSuper posted:Originally Ubisoft was all set to milk the UbiArt framework, since Rayman Origins was a highly risky project and they weren't expecting it to pay off. But it did I mean... kinda? The game reviewed well but neither game sold well out of the gate; they had to hit bargain bins before people would buy them. I'm still shocked they still haven't announced a Prince of Persia UbiArt game, but I guess that makes too much sense.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:37
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I just came across this game on Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eotu/empires-of-the-undergrowth Ant battles sounds cool and anything that promotes insects is good by me. They aren't asking much either.
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