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Toxxupation posted:agreeing to pretend that tim schafer's lying scam artistry never happened I know I'm coming across as the developer white knight but I think Schafer's somewhat charming when he goes loving crazy in wide eyed day dreaming stream of consciousness mode. And what's baffling is he was the last kind of game developer I was expecting to pull micro transactions on the clearly dedicated PC target audience. I mean he not only knows his audience, he literally created it, I can't for the life of me believe he didn't foresee the shitstorm. Was he handling business/developed the business model all along? It's just a surreal 180 he pulled on Spacebase.
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Feb 6, 2016 19:28
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Money > artistic integrity biiiiiitch
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Feb 6, 2016 19:29
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Well Schafer is going to make* Psychonauts 2, so I think we can all forget about his misgivings.  *Offer not valid until heat death of universe
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Feb 6, 2016 19:31
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Maybe Psychonauts 2 will have micro transactions. "Pay $2 to bypass Meat Circus 2"
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Feb 6, 2016 19:50
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monster on a stick posted:Maybe Psychonauts 2 will have micro transactions. "Pay $2 to bypass Meat Circus 2" The joke is that it's a copy-paste of Mr. Underhill's post about Molyneux. It's not the most stimulating joke, but that's what it is.
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Feb 6, 2016 19:55
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KiddieGrinder posted:I know I'm coming across as the developer white knight but I think Schafer's somewhat charming when he goes loving crazy in wide eyed day dreaming stream of consciousness mode. And what's baffling is he was the last kind of game developer I was expecting to pull micro transactions on the clearly dedicated PC target audience. I mean he not only knows his audience, he literally created it, I can't for the life of me believe he didn't foresee the shitstorm. Was he handling business/developed the business model all along? It's just a surreal 180 he pulled on Spacebase. The model didn't make any money and a publishing deal fell through and the company had to cut the team. The game instantly went from alpha to finished and is still being sold for full price. The 180 is literally running out of money and having to cut the team. The thing people are mad about is selling it as a finished game. You can safely assume it was one of the contributing factors to Valve's refund policy. edit: oh i get it now bravo
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Feb 6, 2016 19:58
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Well I understand the sentiment, I didn't back or have any interest in Godus, I might not be so lenient with mr. Molyneux had I done it. This thread is like Godwin's law but with Schafers instead of nazis  e: vvv 
Mr Underhill fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 6, 2016 |
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Feb 6, 2016 20:05
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I think one of the best ways to deal with the Molyneux's, Schafer's and Robert's's'ss's is to start thinking about video games and their designers/creators more like artists. There's an ever-increasing gap between the game's these people make, and appstore or facebook games that are made using constant metrics and a/b testing. I prefer to have a human make the decisions for the game I'm playing rather than statistics on millions of tiny mouse movements and ad revenue reports. Yes, games are a business, and that business let's people down, but if you think of crowd sourcing more as: "I'm a wealthy person helping support this artist while they do their thing" and less "loving make my god drat thing I PAID YOU for it!!" I think a lot of people would deal with it better. When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing?
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Feb 6, 2016 20:16
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Jesus are you serious
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Feb 6, 2016 20:40
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bestovv posted:When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing? What sort of stockholm syndrome poo poo is this
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Feb 6, 2016 22:01
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/482445197/unsung-story-tale-of-the-guardians/posts/1485100 posted:Dear Unsung Backers, Still my only failure of a Kickstarter I've backed, but jesus, their attempts at spin and pretending everything's ok are brazen as hell.
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Feb 6, 2016 22:25
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I wonder what the odds are of Unsung Story just being straight canceled at this rate.
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Feb 6, 2016 22:40
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I honestly don't think PlayDek will cancel it until they go bankrupt. They're sticking by the whole "It might be multiple years late and a completely different game from what we pitched, but you're going to get it eventually" line hard.
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Feb 6, 2016 22:46
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bestovv posted:I think one of the best ways to deal with the Molyneux's, Schafer's and Robert's's'ss's is to start thinking about video games and their designers/creators more like artists. No, because if you're an artist who doesn't actually produce anything with market appeal, you starve.
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Feb 6, 2016 23:05
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:I honestly don't think PlayDek will cancel it until they go bankrupt. They're sticking by the whole "It might be multiple years late and a completely different game from what we pitched, but you're going to get it eventually" line hard. Why don't they take one of the games they are apparently shipping, replace the title screen with "Unsung Story", and call it a day? Or even better, just buy a Flappy Bird clone and do the same thing.
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Feb 6, 2016 23:17
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Brendon Chung is an artist. Molyneux, Schafer, and Roberts are scam artists. There is a difference.
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Feb 6, 2016 23:32
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Still my only failure of a Kickstarter I've backed, but jesus, their attempts at spin and pretending everything's ok are brazen as hell.
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Feb 6, 2016 23:32
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Bieeardo posted:No, because if you're an artist who doesn't actually produce anything with market appeal, you starve. The difference is that artists finish things. The people listed there don't make things (perhaps they once did, but they don't anymore), they start things and abandon them when it gets to the part where it gets difficult- the part where they have to tune, tighten, take risks, abandon safe good for unsafe great. They are cowards. They are making things with market appeal, guaranteed audiences, and money up front, and they still won't loving do it. It's not even a can't thing at this point, it's a won't. They have the cushiest gig in the entire art world! And yet, oh, DF-9 is kinda boring to work on, time to move on to another project. Oh, Godus is getting hard to deal with, time to move on to another project, sorry kid who we promised special prizes to. Oh, Star Citizen has the funding to make even more modules, best to keep it in production while we redo primary assets for the 75th time and build a loving mocap studio to do our cutscenes. You don't get a pass on not making poo poo by rebranding yourself from a maker to an ~*artist*~. E: Unless you meant con artist in which case carry on Somfin fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 00:22
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I think a realization that has emerged from the recent exploits of old 90's video game superstar devs is that video games are a team effort and there's rarely one person that should take most of the credit for the development unless its an indie game like Undertale.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 00:37
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That reminds me of my favorite sentence in the history of videogame journalism, from this article:quote:"There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person," says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex.
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Feb 7, 2016 00:51
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HMS Boromir posted:That reminds me of my favorite sentence in the history of videogame journalism, from this article: quote:Not one single line of code or one single texture from the first game is reappearing in Deus Ex 2 Maybe they should have reappeared 
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Feb 7, 2016 01:02
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HMS Boromir posted:It's just perfect in a way that makes it hard to decide if the writer did it on purpose or not. I love it. That quote made me flinch.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:05
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I thought "When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing? " was a pretty silly thing to say but someone on this same page said "artists complete things" which is also p lol
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Feb 7, 2016 01:10
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HMS Boromir posted:That reminds me of my favorite sentence in the history of videogame journalism, from this article: In the rest of the article, it appears that the journalist is perfectly fine with attributing the artistic vision of a game to a single person, regardless of Warren's opinion. quote:But as self-directed and contributive as those members are (and there's hardly any doubt about that), it's clear that the touchstone of development is Warren's vision of gaming.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:14
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The Saddest Rhino posted:I thought "When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing? " was a pretty silly thing to say but someone on this same page said "artists complete things" which is also p lol Anyone who calls themselves a creator and doesn't actually create is a fraud. It's like a guy who calls himself a writer and when you ask what he writes he says "Well nothing yet but I've got a whole lot of ideas" and then immediately begins telling you about all the things he's gonna write someday. Go to a public game makers meetup sometime and you'll find minimum four or five people who have great big ideas for game stories that they're so loving eager to tell you, but as soon as you ask them about mechanics or engines they shut down until you stop asking and then they go right back to their thousand-year backstory and how they're gonna do time travel right and how their main character isn't a cliche because they've read TVTropes and are quite aware of how to avoid cliches.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:26
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this is by no means a defence of the three video game horsemen of the apocalypse, i know you are p mad about them not completing their games but the words you use like "they are scam artists they don't complete games" and "they call themselves creators but they don't create", then comparing them to people who claim to write but don't write, are very lol and ad hominem i mean (a) they are very incompetent and lied (a lot) about things, and their products loving suck, but they definitely did work on creating the products (b) have you talked to a real artist person before, try asking them if they complete every single project they started
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Feb 7, 2016 01:34
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on the flipside "When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing?", try saying that to someone who put money in a housing project to buy a house to be completed in the future, and said house gets abandoned
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Feb 7, 2016 01:36
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The Saddest Rhino posted:on the flipside "When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing?", try saying that to someone who put money in a housing project to buy a house to be completed in the future, and said house gets abandoned The difference of course is that when you put money into a house there are usually contracts and all sorts of paperwork saying you're going to get a house. Kickstarter specifies that you might not see anything at all from the things you Kickstart.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:38
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The Saddest Rhino posted:(b) have you talked to a real artist person before, try asking them if they complete every single project they started If I pay an artist for a commission and they don't finish it then I want my money back. They could have a million unfinished paintings in their garage, the important thing is the product I paid for gets finished and satisfactorily at that.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:40
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The Saddest Rhino posted:this is by no means a defence of the three video game horsemen of the apocalypse, i know you are p mad about them not completing their games but the words you use like "they are scam artists they don't complete games" and "they call themselves creators but they don't create", then comparing them to people who claim to write but don't write, are very lol and ad hominem Most of my artist friends don't get paid up front for work. Most of my artist friends don't charge money for work they haven't finished, and they don't try to sell it as complete. Most of my artist friends don't stop working on something that is in progress once it bores them, if they are being paid for it. Most of my artist friends don't have access to a multimillion dollar well of public goodwill that they can dip into by announcing that they're thinking about something that they finished before.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:43
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Somfin posted:Most of my artist friends don't get paid up front for work. there you go, that's a better argument than "artists complete and scam artists don't complete"
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Feb 7, 2016 01:46
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The Saddest Rhino posted:I thought "When you pledge to a crowd sourcing project, you're paying for something that doesn't actually exist, should you really be that surprised if ends up never existing? " was a pretty silly thing to say but someone on this same page said "artists complete things" which is also p lol Seriously, if people really want to have some kind of tight definition of artist as people who finish things they're going to be really sorely disappointed by a lot of the most famous artists in history.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:56
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I should have known that the sudden spike in posts for this thread was because of another Space Base/Schafer argument and not a cool, new Kickstarter campaign.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:16
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Great Rumbler posted:I should have known that the sudden spike in posts for this thread was because of another Space Base/Schafer argument and not a cool, new Kickstarter campaign.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:27
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Still my only failure of a Kickstarter I've backed, but jesus, their attempts at spin and pretending everything's ok are brazen as hell. Using KS funds to release other projects...that's certainly pragmatic and also very ugly
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Feb 7, 2016 02:29
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Great Rumbler posted:I should have known that the sudden spike in posts for this thread was because of another Space Base/Schafer argument and not a cool, new Kickstarter campaign. Can't you read the title, moron? This is clearly the "How many Hitlers is Tim Schafer and also what the gently caress is a concept art anyway" megathread.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:37
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Still sad that Consortium the Tower will likely die before hitting 100,000.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:40
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RentACop posted:It looks like they got $3,357 with 37 backers one day, and then $9,557 with 34 the next. It's... peculiar. This, plus the dev stating that they were an amateur ghost hunter, was enough to get me to pull my pledge I still like the concept from what I've seen, and still hold that it's what Kickstarter should be about, donating to support people who have promising ideas, but it's supposedly well funded at this point so we'll see if it ever yields a finished product.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:49
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7 days left on Commodore 64: A Visual Compendium 2nd edition. This was the Kickstarter that drew my attention to Sam Dyer's work and the stretch goals are neat looking. At this point it comes with a modern C64 point and click game.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:36
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al-azad posted:7 days left on Commodore 64: A Visual Compendium 2nd edition. This was the Kickstarter that drew my attention to Sam Dyer's work and the stretch goals are neat looking. At this point it comes with a modern C64 point and click game.  Forbidden Forest was a hosed up game. Beautiful looking book, that is really tempting.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:40
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