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Good Username Here posted:Me and a couple friends are working on a class called the runecaster and would like some feedback from the thread. Could you give an example turn for this class? I'm not quite following what it does.
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Apr 14, 2014 13:08
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RyvenCedrylle posted:Could you give an example turn for this class? I'm not quite following what it does. Example 1: There's a small group of zombies nearby. The Runecaster combines Radiance as a base word with Pyre as a modifier for their basic attack. This basic attack has three qualities to it because of that: It will do holy damage, it will give the Runecaster a very minor amount of healing, and it will hit something like 1d3 of the enemies in the group. Example 2: The party is fighting a bunch of people with bright torches and are taking minuses to hit because they can't really see. The Runecaster uses Pyre as a base and Shade as a modifier, and then with their quick action, uses Improv to turn this into a weak ritual instead of an attack, darkening all of the torches to negate the blinding. Basically, the Runecaster is about having multiple small pieces of a spell that you combine into what you need on the fly. They'll be a lot more about support than actual combat damage. It's kind of "I want to do magic bullshit easily" as a class. I hope my examples work, but I can try and give more if you need them.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:54
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Prythian posted:Example 1: There's a small group of zombies nearby. The Runecaster combines Radiance as a base word with Pyre as a modifier for their basic attack. This basic attack has three qualities to it because of that: It will do holy damage, it will give the Runecaster a very minor amount of healing, and it will hit something like 1d3 of the enemies in the group. OK. I'm with you now. Pyre as a base is literally fire and as a modifier it's "to spread quickly." It's similar in goal to my Theurge or maybe it's 13th Age a la Ars Magica. Actually, that last idea sounds hella awesome. You should read Ars Magica or at least the magic system. Might help you put your thoughts in order.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:13
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A question for those of you who're running organized play: how have you been using Icon rolls? I can get how they'd work a little better in normal play since things are more open, but with organized play it feels like I'm trying to wedge things into the structure of the adventure; especially with Wrath of the Orc Lord since the whole idea is that everyone's pretty much on a forced march with a very strict timetable. I've had a few Icon agents show up and drop off magic items, but I'd like to do more.
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Apr 15, 2014 15:18
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Evil Mastermind posted:A question for those of you who're running organized play: how have you been using Icon rolls? I can get how they'd work a little better in normal play since things are more open, but with organized play it feels like I'm trying to wedge things into the structure of the adventure; especially with Wrath of the Orc Lord since the whole idea is that everyone's pretty much on a forced march with a very strict timetable. I've had a few Icon agents show up and drop off magic items, but I'd like to do more. you're absolutely right about it starting to feel hamfisted, especially if you end up with a ton of rolls from all directions. so, the way we started going, it's usually up to the player who rolled 'em to use 'em, unless the DM has a really good way to tie one or two into the plot. it's essentially a player's wildcard, as long as they can thematically tie it back to the roll. it allows a player to temporarily take control and narrate the story in a beneficial way. it usually ends up as some kind of background check challenge/combat freebie: for example, in our last game, a positive Prince of Shadows 6 was used by one player to tap into the shadowy network of contacts to procure some disguises. that allowed us to skip the part of the plan (and a few background checks) that required we make some ourselves. alternately, in a game I ran a while back, a player was rolling poorly in combat, so I presented the idea of using their negative Orc Lord 5 to get some bonuses to attack and damage as they imagined their enemies were orcs instead, at the cost of a little... stability.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:16
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So, I wrote up a bunch of monsters for my campaign. http://chaosinferred.com/personal/13thage/the-dragon-empire/the-beastiary/humanoid/ http://chaosinferred.com/personal/13thage/the-dragon-empire/the-beastiary/undead Feel free to use them and give me feedback.
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Apr 17, 2014 01:01
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Evil Mastermind posted:A question for those of you who're running organized play: how have you been using Icon rolls? I can get how they'd work a little better in normal play since things are more open, but with organized play it feels like I'm trying to wedge things into the structure of the adventure; especially with Wrath of the Orc Lord since the whole idea is that everyone's pretty much on a forced march with a very strict timetable. I've had a few Icon agents show up and drop off magic items, but I'd like to do more. We hear this over and over and over and over again perusing various forums, so Aaron and I made more effort to include some specific places for "hey! use your icon dice here!" in the next module, Elf Queen's Enchantment. Let us know how that goes for you! I'll accept comments here and at my email address though if Wade says they should go to the official feedback@fireopal(?) address, use that instead. The team seems to be crystallizing so hopefully we can better incorporate these sorts of things going forward.
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Apr 17, 2014 01:07
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RyvenCedrylle posted:We hear this over and over and over and over again perusing various forums, so Aaron and I made more effort to include some specific places for "hey! use your icon dice here!" in the next module, Elf Queen's Enchantment. Let us know how that goes for you! I'll accept comments here and at my email address though if Wade says they should go to the official feedback@fireopal(?) address, use that instead. The team seems to be crystallizing so hopefully we can better incorporate these sorts of things going forward. Awesome, thanks. Tonight I did something like what PlasmaMan suggested by letting people use Icon relationships for "flashbacks" or motivation to get a +2 to a roll, and that worked pretty well. (We did session 5 of WotOL) As long as we're talking about the modules, would there be any way to include a little set-up information for fights? Like, I did the fight with the ogres tonight, and I didn't realize that the ogres in the fight were supposed to be the ones holding on to the Oracle so things got a little confused, and there have been other little hiccups from time to time when I'm thrust from fluff right into monster stats without any idea of how I'm supposed to go from one to the other because there's little to no context.
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Apr 17, 2014 04:36
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Evil Mastermind posted:Awesome, thanks. Tonight I did something like what PlasmaMan suggested by letting people use Icon relationships for "flashbacks" or motivation to get a +2 to a roll, and that worked pretty well. (We did session 5 of WotOL) I wasn't on WotOL - that was Ash solo - so unfortunately I can't speak to it much. I can tell you that the Elf Queen fights should be very obvious as to what's going on. There are only so many war stories to tell (especially over what.. 18 weeks of play??) so we had to be more thoughtful in the framing such that it wasn't "and here's more orcs to kill!" Overall, I'm REALLY proud of Elf Queen. I think you're going to find it takes Tales up a much-needed notch.
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Apr 17, 2014 16:46
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Here's a really slick pdf of the Lurker, updated and tweaked based on feedback. Courtesy of Ryven. http://dailylibertine.com/wordpress/mystictheurge/13th-age-class-the-lurker/
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Apr 17, 2014 18:15
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-Fish- posted:Here's a really slick pdf of the Lurker, updated and tweaked based on feedback. Courtesy of Ryven. That looks really good, and I love the format. I have a player that, were he not planning on switching to a Necromancer as soon as the playtest drops, would jump at the chance to play a Lurker. Quick question: is there an implied "or less" after the HP trigger for Finishing blow, or does a player just have to be extremely lucky about hitting the exact number? edit: also, is Midnight Noose a standard action?
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Apr 17, 2014 19:32
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Old Dirty Cumburgs posted:That looks really good, and I love the format. I have a player that, were he not planning on switching to a Necromancer as soon as the playtest drops, would jump at the chance to play a Lurker. Not so much implied as "Ryven and I both didn't catch that we hadn't made that explicit." And yes, Midnight Noose is a Standard Action.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:01
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-Fish- posted:Not so much implied as "Ryven and I both didn't catch that we hadn't made that explicit." And yes, Midnight Noose is a Standard Action. Thanks! I thought so, but I do have a few players that, shall we say, embrace ambiguities as a playstyle. As I mentioned, it's a really cool class, I'd probably play one.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:16
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Old Dirty Cumburgs posted:Thanks! I thought so, but I do have a few players that, shall we say, embrace ambiguities as a playstyle. I'm playing one in my wife's Roaring 20s campaign and loving it. Crawstep completely derailed a combat encounter in a beautiful way. Turns out it's hard to do a driveby when someone shows up on the passenger seat and stabs the driver in the neck with a screwdriver.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:25
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Doublehex posted:So, I wrote up a bunch of monsters for my campaign. I look forward to smiting them heartily.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:13
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VanSandman posted:I look forward to smiting them heartily. And what have we learned from this? YOU GOTTA ADAPT YOUR COMBAT FOR MISSING PLAYERS. e: And in order to make this post at least somewhat relevant for the thread at hand, back in October I made a class called the Thief. Good idea, with horrible implementation. A few days ago I took a long, hard look at him and made some really necessary changes. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-HhnLdq14qELXgxTzA5MnhDR0k/edit?usp=sharing If any of you would be so kind as to take a look and tell me your thoughts, I would greatly appreciate it. Doublehex fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 14:03
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RyvenCedrylle posted:We hear this over and over and over and over again perusing various forums, so Aaron and I made more effort to include some specific places for "hey! use your icon dice here!" in the next module, Elf Queen's Enchantment. Let us know how that goes for you! I'll accept comments here and at my email address though if Wade says they should go to the official feedback@fireopal(?) address, use that instead. The team seems to be crystallizing so hopefully we can better incorporate these sorts of things going forward. Yeah, if you guys have feedback on OP that will help us deliver better adventures, we'd be grateful if you'd also send it to Ash at ash.law@fireopalmedia.com. I agree that some upfront context would help GMs a lot, and I suspect it's the common writer's trap of assuming that just because you understand what's going on, the reader will too. When I wrote the adventure summaries to enter into the Gen Con events database, there were cases where it wasn't immediately clear to me what the adventure was. I had to read through the whole doc so I could boil it down to something like, "The empire is in danger from a thing! Race to beat these guys to this place, where you'll fight something scary."
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Apr 18, 2014 14:56
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Doublehex posted:And what have we learned from this? YOU GOTTA ADAPT YOUR COMBAT FOR MISSING PLAYERS. ...were you not before?
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Apr 18, 2014 15:17
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Doublehex posted:e: And in order to make this post at least somewhat relevant for the thread at hand, back in October I made a class called the Thief. Good idea, with horrible implementation. A few days ago I took a long, hard look at him and made some really necessary changes. Either get rid of that loving stupid Sneaky Bastard feature or make it a talent like Mythkenner or whatever the other bard talent is that gives you a couple background points and raises the limit beyond the normal maximum. Or, y'know, like the Rogue's Thievery talent. Extra background points for free is dumb and unbalancing; forcing players to put a 2 (without a feat) in the sort of background that they would normally put a 4 or a 5 is just loving stupid as all get out, and leads to a thief that is generally worse at thief stuff than any other class that decides to have a thiefy background. Otherwise, though, (and I thought this about the first draft as well) it looks like a mechanically interesting class and a great alternative to the Rogue, and I don't see any glaring flaws in the math for any of the moves, but I'm no expert at that.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:57
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Raenir K. Artemi posted:Either get rid of that loving stupid Sneaky Bastard feature or make it a talent like Mythkenner or whatever the other bard talent is that gives you a couple background points and raises the limit beyond the normal maximum. Or, y'know, like the Rogue's Thievery talent. Extra background points for free is dumb and unbalancing; forcing players to put a 2 (without a feat) in the sort of background that they would normally put a 4 or a 5 is just loving stupid as all get out, and leads to a thief that is generally worse at thief stuff than any other class that decides to have a thiefy background. ...it is like Mythkenner where you get 2 free background points to invest into the Sneak Bastard background! It even says that the 2 background points are free. I don't think it is dumb and unbalancing; 2 points is not enough to make him more OP than other classes, and the requirements are very broad.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:26
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Doublehex posted:...it is like Mythkenner where you get 2 free background points to invest into the Sneak Bastard background! It even says that the 2 background points are free. Let me put it this way. I'm making a lowercase-t thief. As a Rogue, my backgrounds are Master Thief 4, Legitimate Businessman 3 and Really Smug Elf 1. If I take Thievery I could have the backgrounds Master Thief 5, Guildmaster 4, Legitimate Businessman 3 and Really Smug Elf 1, but if I don't it doesn't really matter because I'm still a competent thief and I'm happy. As a Thief, I'd have Master Thief 2, Guildmaster 4, LEgitimate Businessman 3 and Really Smug Elf 1. Do I want Master Thief to be better than 2? Yes, because if I'm playing an uppercase-T Thief I want to be a cool thief. Can I start with Master Thief at anything but 2 without spending my one feat on it? Nope. I mean, I get what you're going for, but Sneaky Bastard as-written just makes sure every Thief is only pretty good at being a thief unless they spend a feat that doesn't get them that much.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:55
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The guy above me said it too, but it's not like Mythkenner, because the background points from Mythkenner can be put into any other background. You don't have to make an entirely new background that you can only put points into with feats. And Mythkenner lets you have a background go up to 6 without any feat investment! And it does even more! As it is, a Thief is always worse than a thievery rogue at thiefing until Epic Tier, assuming that the rogue never puts feats into the Thievery talent. And no, 2 free background points isn't massively unbalancing, but it is unbalancing! There's a reason why every class gets 8 background points, and that reason is that guaranteed skill disparity is incredibly dumb. Yes, bards or rangers or rogues can have more background points than everyone else, but it's not guaranteed, and they have to give up something for it. Like I said, I really like this class aside from that, and I realize that I could just ignore this one thing that I don't like, but I also feel like it could be made into a really nice mechanic like the other talents I'm talking about and achieve the desired effect if it was tuned up into a talent instead of a baked-in thing.
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Apr 19, 2014 03:08
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Well gents, try to answer this. The Vanguard is one of the most praised community produced classes. If I recall, it was featured in the Newsletter. And yet it had a baked in "2 free background points to be allocated to something related to the Vanguard", just like the Thief. So, what am I doing wrong with "Sneaky Bastard" that the Vanguard didn't?
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Apr 19, 2014 03:15
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Raenir K. Artemi posted:And no, 2 free background points isn't massively unbalancing, but it is unbalancing! I disagree. I could give you 400 Background points but if the limit for any one Background is still +5 and you can only use one Background at a time, there is no mechanical balance problem. It's effectively the same situation as the player who writes in an Adventurer +5 Background. It's a cheap out and not much fun, but it won't make the character any more powerful mechanically. It's more unbalancing to raise the limit to +6 or +7.
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Apr 19, 2014 03:18
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Doublehex posted:So, what am I doing wrong with "Sneaky Bastard" that the Vanguard didn't? The Vanguard gives you two points in a war-themed background. The Thief gives you the Thief background at 2, which is a problem because you probably want more than a +2 in thieving if you're a Thief. If Sneaky Bastard just gave you two points to put into a thief-themed background we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Apr 19, 2014 03:47
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Lurks With Wolves posted:The Vanguard gives you two points in a war-themed background. The Thief gives you the Thief background at 2, which is a problem because you probably want more than a +2 in thieving if you're a Thief. If Sneaky Bastard just gave you two points to put into a thief-themed background we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's essentially what I *though* I said though. quote:Give your Thief a background that relates to how he became a Thief, or how he became so drat good at his job, or something related to his Thievery. From my perspective, that seems very Thief-themed to me.
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Apr 19, 2014 03:51
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Doublehex posted:Well gents, try to answer this. The Vanguard is one of the most praised community produced classes. If I recall, it was featured in the Newsletter. And yet it had a baked in "2 free background points to be allocated to something related to the Vanguard", just like the Thief. "Note that this Background cannot be advanced with normal Background points. You need to buy the Adventurer and Epic feat to make this Background more viable." This part. I it was just two free background points, well, I still wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't literally make the class worse at the thing it's supposed to do than it would be otherwise (unless you spend a feat, but there's already a feat for getting more background points!) And I've apparently never really looked at the Vanguard too closely, but I don't really like it there either. Like, "here just have this +2 to a thing you were probably gonna spend points on anyway" all on its own seems really uninspired and cop-outy to me. e: Oh, you posted while I was posting. To clarify, the way the talent is written says that you have to take an entirely new background at +2, and that IS your thief background. It's not adding to the possibility, it's limiting it and forcing you to take feats to get it where you wanted.
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Apr 19, 2014 03:51
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Doublehex posted:If any of you would be so kind as to take a look and tell me your thoughts, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm glad to see this get updated. It was the only community built class I would have banned at my table*, so the fact that work is being done to improve it is great. *now with some playtime behind it, the Elemental Knight also gets that dubious distinction. Great idea.. lacking execution. Fish and his wife aptly demonstrated the many problems there. Hope it sees some rewriting as well. Thoughts: 1) Why is its base PD and MD so high? No one else gets a 12/12 spread. There are a few 12/10s, but that's it. Not enough to break the class but enough to at least get the side eye. 2) Sneaky Bastard... I have to agree with the other Goons here. Take out the restriction on advancing the Background. You get two extra points that have to go into a thiefy Background. Done. I wouldn't ever bother taking a feat that gives me more Background. It's not a good trade. Toss the adventurer feat out completely or do something else with it. I don't understand the Champion feat. Extra die? What die? A d6? A d20? What's going on here? Epic feat is a really good idea that also shouldn't be a feat. Rewriting the Background is much more interesting than adding points. I had Criminal Scum +4, now I have Cops In My Pocket +4. (Hint: some of y'all will see this in Tot13A very soon!) That said, it's still not worth taking a feat to do. Epic feats are rare commodities. Honestly, I'd clarify the Champion feat and just leave it there. Not every Talent needs a full feat tree. 3) Talents that I think are solid - More Resourceful Than Cunning, Crossing Over, Brimming With Deceit. Always a Second Chance is at least practical if a little bland. Gadgeteer - how does this work? What does improve mean? Is it an attack bonus? Do the gadgets get another effect? It's not clear. What is the Shoot Bow Steal skill in If You Fail Once? I think it's an old feature you got rid of? Sleight of Hand should not be a flat bonus. A reroll would be ok or maybe "add 1d4". Also the class could use probably two more Talent options in general. You want 8-10 if you can come up with them. 4)The Ruses. It's good for a class to break one or two rules/traditions. That gives it uniqueness and substance. The Ruses as they currently stand ignore too many conventions to feel right. Sticky bombs, for example. The detonation scheme is different and interesting. It's weird, but that's ok. If you're going to do it, removing the bombs should then be a simple save, not the level-based equation you have there. Perfect for Pathfinder, not so much for 13th Age. Also, the damage is just nuts for a Level 1 power. No one's doing 4d10 damage to 1d3 creatures at level 1, even as a Daily. The Wizard can hit one person for 4d10 with Acid Arrow. Grenades and Evasively Deadly are the right power level for Lv 1. Key your other powers to that curve and use more expressions and techniques that are common to 13th Age. You'll have a much better class in the end.
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Apr 19, 2014 04:00
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Is there a list of all the good custom classes that people have whipped up for this? I'm interested to see what's been homebrewed.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:17
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The Vault is probably the best selection. Most of the stuff posted into this thread has probably been added to it, but possibly not all. As well as stuff made by people on other forums or what not. In fact it looks like there are some there now that I have not seen yet.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:27
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Looking at it, the Diablo 2 Paladin there is insanely broken. Like half the abilities are overpowered and the other half are poo poo. Stun at 11+ at level 3. Jesus.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:36
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Yeah, a couple classes on The Vault are sorta busted, but some of the people putting things on there are also pretty receptive to critique, so airing your concerns in the comments can actually be pretty effective! There were a couple classes in See Page XX that aren't on the vault, but I think they're all linked in this doc. Edit: Oh, yeah, Ryven, you said that in retrospect you would probably ban the Elemental Knight from your table. Did you mean Elementalist or Eldritch Knight, and if so could you elaborate on why? We have both of those in a campaign I'm in (one is my character even) and I think it'd be nice to know before we're too invested if it would be a better idea to rebuild as something else. Jolyne Cujoh fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 00:40
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I'm still working on my Seeker which is technically done but probably could use more talents.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:53
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I was curious about the Diablo 2 Paladin, but it is not complete. Also man would it be hard to max out synergies. You get maybe a total of 30 sp, unless using feats and since pretty much none of the skills seem to have any feats it would probably be easy to take both the +6 total sp and +temp sp from escalation die feat trees, which at 10th level would allow maxing 3 skills. I kind of want to try it, but man is Sacrifice burly, and Holy Bolt is unlimited out of combat healing and both worthless against non undead enemies and burly against undead enemies. Really wanted to see how the Auras would work. But uh yeah it is probably not very well balanced for what actually exists.
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Apr 23, 2014 01:08
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Raenir K. Artemi posted:Edit: Oh, yeah, Ryven, you said that in retrospect you would probably ban the Elemental Knight from your table. Did you mean Elementalist or Eldritch Knight, and if so could you elaborate on why? We have both of those in a campaign I'm in (one is my character even) and I think it'd be nice to know before we're too invested if it would be a better idea to rebuild as something else. He means the Elemental Knight. Ryven and I actually had a pretty fun talk about this class a few months ago. The problem with it is that while it looks cool, it doesn't actually do anything. It doesn't tank. It doesn't heal. It doesn't buff its allies or debuff enemies. It has a few powers that sorta do AoE. It has a few powers that do decent damage... but that's pretty much it. Oh and it can run on water. On top of that the mechanics are eclectic to put it nicely. Ryven and I both decided that it's not allowed at our table because it's just not good at anything. It's a lot like the oAssassin or the Vampire from 4e, except that those were at least good at being an Assassin or a Vampire. This doesn't even have the luxury of having cool thematic archetypes to emulate. In other news, I wrote a couple little things after dinner tonight. Pyromancer Dragoon -Fish- fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 01:40
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Raenir K. Artemi posted:Edit: Oh, yeah, Ryven, you said that in retrospect you would probably ban the Elemental Knight from your table. Did you mean Elementalist or Eldritch Knight, and if so could you elaborate on why? We have both of those in a campaign I'm in (one is my character even) and I think it'd be nice to know before we're too invested if it would be a better idea to rebuild as something else. What Fish said. I've played with both an Elementalist and Eldritch Knight at my table and I'm fine with either. The Eldritch Knight seemed a little underpower on the damage but it could have been the build (or the player's crappy dice).
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Apr 23, 2014 02:18
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Warlock looks interesting. Is an all at will spellcaster. Mostly single target, though some individual spells target multiple enemies. It is definitely more in the 3.5 Warlock mold, though it has Pacts like the 4e one.
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Apr 23, 2014 02:43
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Did the alchemist class ever get tweaked? Now that my gang is more rules confident, they've been looking around at alternate classes and since my cleric player is reskinned to an alchemist...
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Apr 23, 2014 08:09
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speaking of classes, I have been working on one that should work as a smith, artificer, inventor, alchemist, horticulturalist... it's still pretty heavily WIP since I am trying to give it unique gameplay to avoid just being another reskinned wizard, but I think the idea is at least far enough to post. I am kinda loathe to add to the fan class bloat, but I haven't seen any classes quite like this so I figured I'd give it a shot. ideally, while it will have some direct attacks, it is primarily a zoning-type caster class that places obstacles for enemies and fortifications for allies, something like a summoner wizard from 4e. The Wright
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Apr 23, 2014 10:26
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For those of you not on the G+'es.. I finally managed to complete v1.0 of the Community Pre-Gen project last night. So, up at http://www.13thage.org/index.php/pre-gens there are now zip files for each and every class, containing a level 1 through level 10 version of a pregenerated character. Enjoy! (And if you find any errors, feel free to post or PM them so I can regenerate the files.
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Apr 23, 2014 13:58
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