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moths
Aug 25, 2004



I'm convinced the Escalation Die (at least) is going to be A Thing before 13th Age launches, and everyone will be all "Oh it uses the Escalation Die from Age of Assholes"

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Fenarisk
Oct 26, 2005



moths posted:

I'm convinced the Escalation Die (at least) is going to be A Thing before 13th Age launches, and everyone will be all "Oh it uses the Escalation Die from Age of Assholes"

I'm convinced the game needs MORE dice gimmicks because of how cool the escalation die is, and I'd like to see the rogue's momentum be turned into a die that ties into more static modifiers or unlocks for combo abilities, because it's not terribly useful at the moment other than opening 2 of its powers. Still a great start though.

moths
Aug 25, 2004



Oh, absolutely. I did a 90's fist-pump (for the first time in my life) reading the Fighter section when I remembered how disappointed I was with that 5e design blog about "How lame are dice gimmicks? So lame, right? gently caress those."

e: To clarify, I think we're going to see some of 13th Age's awesome mechanics stolen and implemented in mediocre poo poo. Especially the escalation die.

moths fucked around with this message at Mar 25, 2012 around 21:25

Fenarisk
Oct 26, 2005



Gimmick dice everyday. Monsters that make the escalation die explode into smaller escalation die (so if it's a 5 on the escalation die, it creates 5 1d4's that each go to a minion), and then use THOSE dice against the players.

Then when the players take damage they bleed more escalation dice that feeds back into healing the solo monster who then

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011



And the final boss will be the Escalation Die itself. It was behind everything that happened all along!

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



gently caress you guys, some of my group reads this thread and now I need to come up with a new campaign.

Also, I thought you didn't get into the playtest Fenarisk

Fenarisk
Oct 26, 2005



fosborb posted:

gently caress you guys, some of my group reads this thread and now I need to come up with a new campaign.

Also, I thought you didn't get into the playtest Fenarisk

I didn't I already said where people could get it

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Yeah I wish you'd stop doing that. I thought you understood where they were coming from as a publisher, but I guess gently caress that, steal their poo poo, and tell everyone to do the same and where to get it.

Fenarisk
Oct 26, 2005



fosborb posted:

Yeah I wish you'd stop doing that. I thought you understood where they were coming from as a publisher, but I guess gently caress that, steal their poo poo, and tell everyone to do the same and where to get it.

I'm discussing it on a private forum behind a paywall in a thread dedicated to the game that could see some legitimately good discussion on its virtues and failings.

I'm not going to argue that they either A) don't mind it being out since it gets them feedback and buzz or B) don't care since they took zero effort in securing it with watermarks or hand selecting testers for something so early on in the playtesting, because it's a moot point at this juncture. Whether they were ready for the inevitable leaks and feedback after submitting it blindly into the internet isn't the concern of the future playtesters or fans looking for info.

Captain Bravo
Feb 16, 2011

He who posts an Ainsley should look to it that he himself does not become a Ainsley.

And when you gaze long into an Ainsley the Ainsley also gazes into you.


And, honestly, you might as well just let him wallow in his own crapulance. He edited out what little hint he gave as to where to find it, and we already know that he downloaded it, so it's not like some big secret. Sure, we may not agree with it, but it's not like you can put the genie back in the bottle.

Hamboning
May 2, 2010


Yes, making sure everyone sent a copy was under an NDA sure is "submitting it blindly".

They have asked those under the NDA not to do in-depth discussions of the mechanics until at least the second round of playtesting, and don't want people not actively involved in the playtest to just be able to download it. They are trying to prevent the same poo poo that happened before 4e.

But you're going to keep droning about 'the way these things work on the internet', so don't mind me.

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Trad Games isn't behind a pay wall anymore. Google 13th Age and this thread is actually the third hit, behind two Pelgrane links.

LongDarkNight
Oct 25, 2010

It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.

Are Ogres still dumb? This is important.

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



They're stupid enough.

Fenarisk
Oct 26, 2005



Hamboning posted:

Yes, making sure everyone sent a copy was under an NDA sure is "submitting it blindly".
Yes, these days it is.

quote:

They have asked those under the NDA not to do in-depth discussions of the mechanics until at least the second round of playtesting, and don't want people not actively involved in the playtest to just be able to download it. They are trying to prevent the same poo poo that happened before 4e.
How exactly did this happen for 4e? The only thing that really got out was the pre-shelf copies from the printers, by that point WotC had been pretty open as to what was going on.

quote:

But you're going to keep droning about 'the way these things work on the internet', so don't mind me.
Well, it is, but I'll drop it. I only offered the (blatantly obvious by means of google) info so there could be more people in on the discussion here, since this is one of the few places good information and good discussion can actually come together more often than not.

copy
Jul 26, 2007
Who the fuck is Copy!?

I don't think this is really specific to the mechanics of the game, so I feel fine discussing it here a little. One of the things that kinda bugs me is the way Icons are presented. Some of them seem really generic, like to the point of being obvious. I wouldn't mind if instead it were set up where the Icons were really fleshed out fluff pieces or if the game guide included suggestions (or even some kind of pre-gen rules) for creating the icons in your campaign; something like the city creation of Dresden Files. Right now it feels like they're straddling between the two, with Icons generic enough that you can pretty much slot anything into them that you want, but with enough detail that a few of them are actually pretty neat in their own rights.

That being said I love the idea of The Crusader. Pretty much The Bad Guy but he's too busy inadvertently do-gooding to actually get around to evil.

Transient People
Dec 22, 2011

"When a man thinketh on anything whatsoever, his next thought after is not altogether so casual as it seems to be. Not every thought to every thought succeeds indifferently."
- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

copy posted:

I don't think this is really specific to the mechanics of the game, so I feel fine discussing it here a little. One of the things that kinda bugs me is the way Icons are presented. Some of them seem really generic, like to the point of being obvious. I wouldn't mind if instead it were set up where the Icons were really fleshed out fluff pieces or if the game guide included suggestions (or even some kind of pre-gen rules) for creating the icons in your campaign; something like the city creation of Dresden Files. Right now it feels like they're straddling between the two, with Icons generic enough that you can pretty much slot anything into them that you want, but with enough detail that a few of them are actually pretty neat in their own rights.

That being said I love the idea of The Crusader. Pretty much The Bad Guy but he's too busy inadvertently do-gooding to actually get around to evil.

Dresden does both, though, and in fact does fleshed out guys twice. You have Chicago, then Baltimore, then DIY rules.

copy
Jul 26, 2007
Who the fuck is Copy!?

Both is good too! I just hope it doesn't do neither in the final version of 13th age, which is how it is currently.

Swagger Dagger
Dec 13, 2010

You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate, only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural.


Mikan posted:

I really wish we could talk about the setting and how funny the writing is.

I don't think it's stepping on the NDA to say that I hope the informal tone of the writing never ever changes.

Also Honeybottom, the ambiguously-gendered halfling rogue is the best character in the history of anything

moths
Aug 25, 2004



The informal tone in Burning Wheel made me hate it. I seriously couldn't get past the part where he waxing about the "comical" voices in his head that comes across like he's trying to sell you homeopathic remedies at a ren faire. Sometimes it's just self-indulgent and loving horrible.

13th Age reads like a quick email from your cool rear end game-designer friend.

Chaltab
Feb 16, 2011

So shocked someone got me an avatar!


Yeah... a quick 222 page email.

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.


I cannot wait for the nda to come off this thing because there is quite a lot I would like to talk about. A lot of the new ideas they've implemented are excellent, even brilliant. I am enjoying this playtest!

Lotish
Dec 10, 2008

I pick up my Devil Axe...
...and DEVIL!


Well after hearing so many positive things about WFRPG 3e from this board I finally looked into it and really like it. Now I hear you guys are really liking this game and I wish I knew more. Would you guys say it is comparable to or better than WFRPG, even at this early stage?

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007


I don't think it's as good as WFRP 3e. While I love moving away from Skills and into Backgrounds, or the Icon mechanics, at the end of the day there's still the binary pass/fail problem. (It's fixed to an extent in some of the mechanics but you know not supposed to 13thagechat) The combat might be more fun, but you could make an argument either way. (WFRP is more lethal, less cinematic but still has lots of cool options and powers.) The other thing with WFRP is the mechanical support for not fighting - there are action cards for social things, exploration things, skill things, etc whereas so far the 13th Age classes have mostly combat stuff and there aren't any dedicated systems to things like social combat. However there are a few things I think 13th Age does better than WFRP 3e, so.

It's a matter of degree though - I'd place 13th Age (as it stands, at this very early point) below 4e and below WFRP. I'd still place it way, way above 95% of the RPG market.

ninjeff
Jan 19, 2004



[D&D] 13th Age RPG: I am enjoying this playtest

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Mikan posted:

It's a matter of degree though - I'd place 13th Age (as it stands, at this very early point) below 4e and below WFRP. I'd still place it way, way above 95% of the RPG market.
I haven't played WFRPG3E:NOTWARGAME so I can't compare it fairly (though it looks goddamned amazing), but I do agree that 13th Age is placed below 4e. I'll expand on that a bit more.


D&D 4e has had 4 years of post launch revision and support, a million supplements and published adventures, best in class online tools, like 10 active threads just on SA with detailed advice, ideas and aids, and a bunch of perfect world actual play videos and podcasts with cool people like Robot Chicken writers and professional DMs and unlimited prop budgets to emulate and inspire.

13th Age is a 200 page word doc alpha test with no art, no tools, broken rules and missing sections, typos and design artifacts that could be from past revisions or maybe they just aren't developed yet.

Yes, 4e is better than 13th Age at this point. What's amazing is how close they are.

Andrevian
Mar 2, 2010


I am not enjoying this playtest.

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007


fosborb posted:

Yes, 4e is better than 13th Age at this point. What's amazing is how close they are.

This is what I was trying to get across. 13th Age isn't as good as those other games, but 13th Age is also in an early state that hasn't had the fortune of receiving my playtest notes yet. It's impressive how good it is already.

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007


Andrevian posted:

I am not enjoying this playtest.

Argh I hate not talking about the game because I want to know if the things you dislike are the same things I have issues with too.

Lotish
Dec 10, 2008

I pick up my Devil Axe...
...and DEVIL!


Since you are both playtesters can you not just PM each other to discuss it?

Mikan
Sep 5, 2007


It's more fun to gripe.

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing, you say? But I'm not even moving!


Mystic Mongol posted:

Personally, I think it's a little silly they're keeping something this amazing under wraps, even incomplete (entire sections are missing, leaving only headers--it's like an incomplete geocities page) but I can see how a major figure behind 4e would be paranoid about people hearing pre-release information, making a snap judgement, and deciding to spend the next five years badmouthing it regarding things that aren't remotely true.

Someone buy a banner ad for this thread that says "Did you like the red box? AD&D? 3.5? THEN gently caress YOU"

Transient People
Dec 22, 2011

"When a man thinketh on anything whatsoever, his next thought after is not altogether so casual as it seems to be. Not every thought to every thought succeeds indifferently."
- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

Super super spoiler-free iconchat: Some of the Icons are really bad, and for really obvious reasons. I think the playtesters will know who I'm talking about. The idea itself is solid though.

fosborb
Dec 15, 2006



Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. Some are a bit bland and could use some tweaking in the fluff, but really bad for really obvious reasons?

I mean, there's nothing like the Lady of Pain in here.

Male Man
Aug 16, 2008

Im, too sexy for your teatime
Too sexy for your teatime
That tea that you're just driiinkiing


Lotish posted:

Since you are both playtesters can you not just PM each other to discuss it?

I don't know about this particular one, but I've been under a couple NDAs which technically disallowed me from discussing even with other people under the same NDA, despite the fact that in two cases there were official discussion forums.


I am not enjoying this playtest, because I am not in it.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

The strongest! The smartest! The rightest!


It's hard to get a good grip on the game since it is in such an early alpha state.

Swagger Dagger
Dec 13, 2010

You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate, only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural.


Mikan posted:

It's a matter of degree though - I'd place 13th Age (as it stands, at this very early point) below 4e and below WFRP. I'd still place it way, way above 95% of the RPG market.

I've only got one game in but, I dunno, it's still a D20 game. The numbers work a little better and are less dependent on the normal D20 poo poo but at some point it's still lipstick on a pig.

I'd rather play this than D&D but that's about it.

edit: I am sort of enjoying this playtest, except for a couple of really specific things I can't bitch about in public but have already sent e-mails about

Swagger Dagger fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2012 around 18:11

Andrevian
Mar 2, 2010


It might be. I'm enjoying griping about it, though.

God, our playtest reply doc is going to be a thing of beauty though.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


How do people find this compares to 4e? Specifically, the "not having a gridded mat" thing. Does combat go faster? Have you ever had arguments along the lines of, "You can't hit me, I was over here" stuff?

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Swagger Dagger
Dec 13, 2010

You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don't hate, only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural.


I don't think we can really talk about that, sorry.

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