The Old School PC RPG Megathread: Gaming with rose-colored goggles

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Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Great, another thread I have to read. GREAT. ... GREAT!

The early Wizardry games are basically the equivalent of text adventures, in that they are so deeply rooted in their time and place that it seems almost unfathomable to be able to get into them as a modern gamer, though I am sure it is possible. The same OLDER BOY who would play Wasteland on the Apple IIe at the library while I watched with rapt attention would also play Wizardry on it, and though I wanted to play them both, Wasteland was the game that made me feel like I was watching actual magic and that my life would never be the same again. Sorry, Wizardry.

precision posted:

Well this thread makes me feel old as poo poo! I clicked on it expecting Wizardry, Ultima, Might and Magic, Starflight, The Magic Candle, Tunnels and Trolls, etc.

(Not that the games in the OP are bad, in fact they're great, especially Divine Divinity. Avoid the sequels.)

Hey, to be fair, Wasteland is in there, too!

But I agree, I was surprised to see Divine Divinity posted, but hey, it does -feel- old-school, in addition to being old-school for a lot of younger people!

Tunnels & Trolls, ahaha. I owned that game for about 12 years before I could finally muster up the patience to get through the beginning of the game, between the confusingly awful graphics and the completely foreign mechanics. But, you know what, once I did, I was kind of surprised and delighted as to just how much fun the game really was.

The Magic Candle, however, remains the primary game that I always wanted to get into but never did. And now my disks are corrupt and there is obviously no way to find a copy on the Internet, that sort of thing is impossible

# ¿ Mar 20, 2012 21:18

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 10:04

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Kraustofski, that before-and-after comparison in Dungeon Siege's female models is so sad. Thank you for posting that, so I can see that things have actually gotten worse just as much as they have gotten better

Why are my posts always too long :smith:

Mattjpwns posted:

It's a shame the two sequels just weren't up to scratch, but I did wind up finishing their action-RPG spinoff "Keys To Maramon" in which you were hired to protect the town of Maramon from monsters that emerged from under the town's five towers each night. If you failed to stop all the monsters, various buildings would get damaged for time periods preventing you from using them.

During the day you'd rest up, gear up, train, spend time in the library reading books and figuring out how to stop the menace for good - which was great fun because you had this constantly emerging story that kept things interesting despite the game consisting of only one location. There was also a time management aspect as you only had so long to spend doing these things before it was nighttime again and you were forced back into the fray.

Ey Yo, Keys to Maramon was amazing. I remember being so mad that it got middling or even poor reviews at the time, because it was basically the first action-RPG that I genuinely enjoyed. I still have the game manual, in which I carefully noted which tower the monsters came out of on which nights--I imagine everyone's strategy by the time they realized the waves were predictable was to wait next to that tower until nighttime, leave enough space for one monster to come out before dying by your hand (if you killed them in the tower, you missed out on any loot they might drop!), pick up loot if loot, repeat until dead, then go into tower and explore the dungeons.

When I was about 90% done with both Keys to Maramon and Legacy of the Ancients (a genuine classic of the genre, the genre being "Ultima III imitations") my hard drive died hard, and I could never bring myself to spend dozens of hours on either of those games again.

I am sure everyone has stories just like this, of course. Like how I started playing Silent Storm three different times on three different computers, and within a month in all three cases, the hard drive on that computer died, leading me to believe Silent Storm was cursed.

THE PWNER posted:

Divine Divinity is ... superior to D2 singleplayer In My Humble Opinion

Agreed. It took Diablo 2 and stripped out everything that makes sense in multiplayer but not in single-player, and enhanced all the actual RPG elements. Basically it super-rules. Beyond Divinity does not rule, if you were wondering, but it is worth a playthrough if you REALLY like Divine Divinity's combat and you want to see how the world gets to where it ends up in Divinity 2: Ego Draconis/Flames of Vengeance/The Dragon Knight Saga.

Rhandhali posted:

The setting is VERY different than what most people recall of Buck Rogers, either from the TV show or the old serials. I remember my disappointment being palpable when I rented a VHS copy of the Buck Rogers movie, wondering where my genetically engineered freaks and needle guns were.

I never thought these games were obscure, but that could just because I owned them both as did more than one person I knew (which was a rarity in the days where everyone basically just pirated everything on floppies at BBS meetings). Still, you are making me think about how intriguing it is that those games were basically a BUCK ROGERS REBOOT but one that nobody even gives a second thought, despite them being, like, awesomely fun and interesting games.

Kharmakazy posted:

Think I might hook up a gamepad and set some macros to the keys for commonly used skills. What the gently caress kind of perception skill requires me to actively search the square im standing in to see if there is a hole right under me... and searching that square is like.. 5 button presses.

The game actually comes with a built-in macro system, to give you an idea of how different gameplay was back then. Hit, uhh, shift-Fkey, do some stuff, then hit shift-Fkey again and whenever you hit that Fkey it will do that stuff again! It might be control-Fkey, not sure.

Also, Base Cochise is not supposed to be visible until later in the game, so it makes me wonder what you have done. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!

Peas and Rice posted:

And now for the part where I contribute to the thread:

Twilight: 2000

Dude. P&R. What. I basically had no idea there was even a game hidden in this game--I spent like six hours making awesome characters, and was so excited because the MegaTraveller 2 character generation system is my favorite in any game ever and this was just like it, and then I am in a base and if I leave the base I wander endlessly through blank fields and if I try to plot a location on my map it says I do not have a vehicle and then I quit playing because there is no game

BUT YOU HAVE PICTURES OF DRIVING???

Still, glad to hear it is unwinnable! Still though, the manual actually highlights the skills that are used in the actual game, so if you had been paying attention you would have known which ones not to take :c00lbert:

Mq posted:

Been playing some Might & Magic 3.

First time through, so no nostalgia. I was actually surprised how well it holds up. There are some interface quirks and some annoyances here and there, but the important stuff works. The game is fun.

I have been trying for years to explain to the world that Might & Magic 3, 4, and 5 all hold up FAR better than 6, 7, and 8. Even in threads recommending old games for people to get into, there will be people like "well, you should start with Might & Magic 6, anything older would be hard to get into" and I am like NO YOU FOOLS IF THEY START WITH ANYTHING AFTER 6 THEY WILL NEVER GET INTO IT

Seriously, particularly in this era of retro love for high-quality sprite-based artwork, 3, 4, and 5 are some of the best games in the genre. 6, 7, and 8 looked awful even when they were new (though I still love them).

Harlock posted:

Does anyone have any positive things to say about Lionheart? I've always been intrigued by the game ever since I saw it in a magazine many moons ago. I know it's supposed to be some sort of Diablo clone, but most reviews have poor impressions of it. Are there any fan made patches that improve the game, or can people chime in with their own personal experiences with it?

No.

(As Ornamented Death said, the beginning of the game is actually pretty great; it plays just like you expect a Black Isle game to play, with lots of fun dialogue and intrigue and mystery and decisions to make.)

(Then, and I am only exaggerating roughly 5%, you spend the entire rest of the game involved in a near-endless series of incredibly difficult combats, talk to a tree, find one more trader, engage in another hundred nigh-impossible combats, and win, without ever getting a payoff to the mysteries they established if you took the time to read the manual before playing. BUT I BEAT THE drat GAME WOOOOOO)

# ¿ Mar 22, 2012 00:11

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Anatharon posted:

I really dislike Wasteland, I have to say. Fallout improved on it quite a bit. I don't think I like that era of games much.

MegaTraveller, though, is interesting. I'll try playing some more of it, though I have no idea how to be effective in the slightest.

YOU SHUT UP RIGHT NOW

It is understandable to not be able to get into Wasteland, but I am genuinely surprised to hear that anyone finds MegaTraveller easier to get into. To this day I have a hard time playing MegaTraveller (2) for long before going completely crazy at how nonsensical everything about the interface and gameplay is, despite it all clearly being awesome.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2012 02:29

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Kharmakazy posted:

The only macros I can get to work are f2 and f3. f1 brings up some weird menu for dosbox. Trying to use the other macros keeps crashing dosbox. CTRL is macro button I think.

Cochise was just there, I just wandered into it.

I really hope wasteland 2 has some dedicated hotkeys and not the same "press 5 buttons to use a skill" setup.

Respectively:

Weird, weird, true (it probably will). Yeah, I guess DOSBox is messing with it, normally you can have F1 through F10 macros (though everyone knows F1 through 4 is lockpick in the four cardinal directions, F5 is "wait" for resting, and the rest are ones you accidentally set when you drop something on the keyboard)

Kharmakazy posted:

Also, how the hell am I supposed to know who is a hirable NPC? They don't show up any differently. Why the gently caress is there a hire combat command, it doesn't seem to work on anyone but the designated NPC's which you shouldn't really be fighting.

At the time, that was probably considered innovative and immersive gameplay. "YOU ARE JUST AS LIKELY TO KILL POTENTIAL RECRUITS AS HIRE THEM!" I would say half of the recruitable NPCs in the game are pretty obvious (like when you have just freed them from chains/brought them back from the brink of death with antitoxin/et cetera) ... but I am also 100% sure I killed Christina in my first playthrough because a gang of leather jerks jumped me just as I walked past her and I thought she was their leader :shobon:

# ¿ Mar 22, 2012 07:29

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

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PSI-5 posted:

My goal is to work my way through all of the Ultimas (yes, even you Ascension).

Ascension as it stood was basically the equivalent of Fallout 3 to the rest of the Fallout series; it clearly paid less attention to logic and continuity for the sake of making the game (and getting it out on time in that case too). The ending was absolutely amazing, too. Plus, I know there is a patch out there that a group of crazy Ultima fans made to completely rewrite all the game's dialogue (obviously not voiced this way) to tie it into previous games and better explain the plot, so you could check that out.

seorin posted:

Then I found this video

Wow. Just when I think I have yet again learned about all the Dungeons & Dragons games out there, I learn about a new one. (Checking a list of all of them ever is cheating) This actually looks like a pretty sweet game, too--like the D&D Ultima Underworld?

Dungeon Master, at least according to Atari magazines of my early childhood, was at one point an infamous a piece of vaporware (along the lines of Duke Nukem Forever, though not as bad obviously). Easy to see why, given that it looks amazing for the time.

Veib posted:

The game also has hilariously incompetent party members, and I found it much easier to just kill everything by myself than struggle to keep some idiot alive, but I did like the idea of hacking through the countryside with Cervantes.

That was really the first hint that I was not going to like Lionheart's combat, when every NPC you can recruit in the game will be killed with literally one hit from most monsters from about 1/3 through the game onward. I would just tell them all to wait at the start of a new area, kill all the monsters, go back to the beginning and pick them up, and move on. And in the end I learned there was no valid reason to have ever recruited anyone in the first place. I figured they would get special endings

Adam Bowen posted:

I tried to do this a couple of years ago. I actually finished Ultima but after about an hour of part 2 I abandoned the plan.

Ultima II has always seemed like a myth to me. This may be the first time I have ever seen anyone mention actually having played it on these forums (though I am sure others have). I think between I's remake and III being the inspiration for dozens of other knockoff CRPGs, II just got left in the dumpster (I have even played Akalabeth, and not II).

h_double posted:

I want to put in a good word for Wizard's Crown.

That box art so totally rules. I always saw it in catalogs and vowed to buy it the first time I saw it in a store. Not a lot of Atari 800XL dealers in my area, though.

h_double posted:

It being a mid-1980s RPG, the graphics are extremely crude, UI is a bit janky and there's not much of a story, but where Wizard's Crown excels is in a super-crunchy and detailed character stat system, and deep wargame-y tactical combat in a way that I haven't seen many other games attempt (Temple of Elemental Evil is probably the closest modern equivalent).

I am going to blow your mind if you do not already know this, so you had better be careful--this style of play was definitely done at least one other time in the sequel to Wizard's Crown, the Eternal Dagger. You can even import your party from Wizard's Crown when you are done!

This thread might be the first time in ages it would make sense for me to post the list I compiled of games where you can import your characters from other games!

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 00:49

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

precision posted:

That is legitimately arguably the best Ultima game. The one with dinosaurs was drat good too.

I heard a lot of complaints about Martian Dreams' sameness and tedium, though also compliments on its atmosphere (I know I played it, and I think I even finished it, but I cannot remember anything about it). Savage Empire, on the other hand, was basically universally agreed to be amazing, and at the time it made me firmly believe that the Ultima VI engine was the most perfect thing ever created and every game should be made using it. Clearly.

(Also, sorry about not knowing Phantasie 2, my first Phantasie was III and the playthrough I started in 2007 is still not finished)
ff

h_double posted:

Yes please!

Very well ... here they are (I do not include expansions since that gets messy and is fairly obvious anyway):

Classic PC Games Where You Can Import Characters From Other Games(tm)
(parentheses mean characters can be imported without going through this game in the series)

Alternate Reality: The City -> Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (in theory at least; see note at bottom)
Baldur's Gate -> Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
Tales of the Unknown Volume I: The Bard's Tale -> (Bard's Tale II) -> Bard's Tale III
TotUVI: The Bard's Tale or Bard's Tale II -> Dragon Wars
Ultima III or Wizardry -> TotUVI: The Bard's Tale or Bard's Tale II
Ultima III, Ultima IV, Wizardry I, Wizardry II, or Wizardry III -> Bard's Tale III
Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday -> Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed
Champions of Krynn -> Death Knights of Krynn -> Dark Queen of Krynn
Dark Designs I: Greliminar's Staff -> Dark Designs II: Closing the Gate -> (Dark Designs III: Retribution was Apple II only)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands -> Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager
Eye of the Beholder -> Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon -> Eye of the Beholder III: Assault on Myth Drannor
Gateway to the Savage Frontier -> Treasures of the Savage Frontier
Ishar -> Ishar II -> Ishar III
Four Crystals of Trazere -> Worlds of Legend
Magic Candle -> (Keys to Maramon) -> (Magic Candle 2) -> Magic Candle 3
MegaTraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy -> MegaTraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Might & Magic -> Might & Magic II (I think?)
Might & Magic IV -> Might & Magic V (plus bonus dual-game "World of Xeen!")
Phantasie -> (Phantasie II [not available on PC anyway]) -> Phantasie III -> Krull Soccer -> Fragglepocalypse
Phantasie/Phantasie III/TotUVI: The Bard's Tale/Bard's Tale II -> Legend of Faerghail
Pool of Radiance -> (Hillsfar) -> Curse of the Azure Bonds -> (Hillsfar[***]) -> Secret of the Silver Blades -> Pools of Darkness
Quest for Glory I (a.k.a. Hero's Quest I) -> Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire -> Quest for Glory III: Wages of War -> Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness
Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession -> Ravenloft 2: Stone Prophet
Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny -> Realms of Arkania: Star Trail -> Realms of Arkania: Shadows over Riva
Temple of Apshai -> Upper Reaches of Apshai -> Curse of Ra
Wasteland -> Wasteland -> Wasteland -> Wasteland -> Wasteland -> Wasteland ->
Wasteland -> Dragon Wars(!?!)
Wizardry -> Wizardry 2 -> Wizardry 3 -> Wizardry 5
Wizardry 6 -> Wizardry 7 -> Wizardry 8

Also of note even though they involve games that never came out for PC:

TotUVI: The Bard's Tale, Ultima III, or Wizardry -> Deathlord(?)
TotUVI: The Bard's Tale, Bard's Tale 2/3, Wizardry (1)/2/3, Ultima 1/2?/3?, Might & Magic(!) -> Centauri Alliance (which I just learned about in the Wasteland 2 thread!)
Wizard's Crown -> Eternal Dagger -> Mass Effect 3 (Eternal Dagger never came out for PC; I got confused by the fact that it came out for Atari 800XL, my previous computer gaming platform of choice/force)

*** Yes, Hillsfar and Curse of the Azure Bonds were mutually import/export compatible; I am pretty sure that is something that will never happen again.

Edit: Thanks Boldor, this list gets better all the time! And I have dabbled a tiny bit with Dragon Wars before, but hearing you talk about it has put me over the edge, so it is definitely going to be my next DOS gaming project ... after my upcoming Wasteland Let's Play, clearly.

Edit some more: Xiw's bizarre arcane knowledge plus CuddleChunks reminding me in the Wasteland 2 thread that Wasteland was recursively importable.

Edit from THE DISTANT FUTURE: I just realized an obvious early one (Alternate Reality series) that is often overlooked, probably because the character transfer was apparently non-functional on most systems.

Edit: Haha, the "distant future" was only June 2, 2013; now THIS is a necroedit.

Oh anyway I just wanted to give a shout-out to the most surprising "importing your character" example I have found in recent memory, that of Dead Island -> Dead Island: Riptide. I mean, seriously; DEAD ISLAND was the kind of game that needed 1980s CRPG character movement sensibilities maintained? And unlike basically every other transfer that was usually along the lines of "import your character for Great Power!" the delightful thing about Dead Island: Riptide is that it actually makes the game harder if you import someone, since the zombies scale to your level and showing up naked and unarmed on a military ship overrun with zombies as tough as the ones you faced fully-equipped with the best gear at the end of the previous game...well. It was quite the start, I tell you what! Definitely made Riptide feel heavily underrated as a result. The End

Dr. Quarex fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 3, 2017

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 03:22

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Krull Soccer is the fact that I type things entirely to entertain myself in the assumption that nobody is actually reading the things I write, so I appreciate the notice. It would ostensibly be a game based around the characters from the fantasy film Krull playing a nice game of soccer/football. Krull Football just sounds too realistic to me, though.

Similarly, you cannot actually import your characters from Eternal Dagger into Mass Effect 3. I actually did not know Phantasie II did not exist for PC, though, nor that you could skip it, so thanks for that (I will also update the other things you mentioned; I love how I have been compiling this list off and on for years and there is still more out there to learn)

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 04:20

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

CaptainRat posted:

Fun fact: the last time I tried to do this all the way through, I was stymied by Dark Queen of Krynn, because the interface was too advanced. I had gotten so used to the Champions/Death Knights UI that I could not wrap my brain around the Dark Queen improvements. I still have never beaten Dark Queen of Krynn

(hello quarex)

What in the world did they change? Was Dark Queen of Krynn a first-person shooter? Wait, no, hold on, do not answer that, I want to enjoy thinking about Dark Queen of Krynn as a first-person shooter for a minute.

I assume it was all slick with shiny buttons and totally Web 2.0 before there was a Web 1.0.

I guess if they removed the "fix" command, I would not know what to do with myself while resting, so maybe that is what happened.

_{helo captainrat i mentioned u in the wastland2 thread}

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 04:51

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Boldor posted:

The worst culprit I can think of here is Dondra: A New Beginning turning into Prism of Heheutotol for IBM. (If you haven't heard of either, don't worry; they were both obscure even when they were current.)

Another old RPG that doesn't exist for IBM is Wrath of Denethenor. I don't think I've seen anyone claim this exists for IBM, unlike a wide variety of other titles. Centauri Alliance is about the last major computer RPG that doesn't exist for IBM, though there are a couple commercial releases that are Mac-only. After that consoles became predominant.

I am intrigued by your knowledge. You are the kind of person Rusel DeMaria should be interviewing for High Score: 3rd Edition! Also, your game collection rules. I envy your sweet shelf space, as my smaller-but-still-significant game collection is currently all stuffed into a closet. You should use this thread as an excuse to update the pictures if nothing else.

Yeah, Centauri Alliance not existing for 100% IBM COMPATIBLES was really surprising when I saw the box. Though every time I find out about some CRPG I have never heard of, my first assumption is that it was a 1990s Mac-only release.

The only reason I have ever heard of Dondra: A New Beginning is because one of the early Quest For Clues books had a couple of pages devoted to it. Those books are great since there is more information in them about a lot of obscure games than seems to exist anywhere on the Internet, ha.

I will also add 5 to Wizardry 1-2-3; I do not know how I forgot about it; I knew Return of Werdna was a stand-alone, but I should have remembered that they did not otherwise start over until 6.

Largepotato posted:

That battle did not end well.

I have heard of a surprising number of people who played the "get a bunch of your friends together and everyone controls someone" way (though usually with Gold Box games); it makes me feel like my friends must have hated me when I was younger. Still, classic party-always-stays-asleep-and-dies oldschool CRPG action.

Volitaire posted:

So I want too play a Might and Magic game. I got the 6 pack off GoG and I think I've landed on playing M&M VI first. I'd eventually like to play 3, 4 and 5 but I don't feel like playing a DOS game right now, and 6 looks plenty interesting. Thing is I'm having a hell of a time starting out. I've heard the game is pretty tough at first but I can't even make it past the first encounter (the heard of goblins by the bridge near the starting town). So noob tips for M&M6 or just M&M games in general would be much appreciated.

In addition to what Phreaky said: In combat, after your character had an action, if you go into the inventory screen of the current highlighted character, switch back to the character who just went, and hit "escape," you get back to the previous character's action again, and can take another action without the game advancing the combat. So basically infinite attacks for free. I want to say this even worked in 7, but I know it did not work in 8, and it might have been 9 where it worked again instead of 7. Numbers numbers numbers (I truly believe I was the first person to uncover this bug back in the day though I am probably wrong :c00lbert:

)

Dr. Quarex fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Mar 23, 2012

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 07:26

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

That Wizardry 4 Let's Play link does not work

Rhandhali posted:

R.I.P., Strategic Simulations Inc. You were too good for this world.

o/` See you at the Crossroads! o/`

I found an SSI t-shirt for sale back when I decided to assault Google in an effort to see if there were any t-shirts or posters of my most beloved games for me to buy. It is not the world's greatest t-shirt, but it is hilarious enough that I still wear it frequently. There is also a guy who will probably never actually return from exile but whose goal was to make a wide array of professional t-shirts using old 1970s/1980s computer/game/company logo t-shirts: http://abandonwear.biz/

Boldor posted:

There are some largely forgotten RPGs that might be in the same galaxy of bad. Something like Fountain of Dreams is too good a game to be like that. I'm thinking of games like Scavengers of the Mutant World and The Red Crystal.

(Googles Red Crystal game)
"The only RPG released by QQP ..." :stare:

QQP has a place in my mind as one of the most awful game companies ever. This is probably entirely unfair, but I bought some strategy game they made, thinking it sounded in the review kind of like Warlords (my favorite!), and the art in the game booklet and in the game itself was so bad that I played it for about five minutes total and quit forever. Looking at the MobyGames page for this game, it looks like QQP's artistic quality control had increased significantly by 1993. Still, King's Bounty and Sword of Aragon are the only games that ever merged RPG and strategy dynamics in a way that seemed to really click, for me anyway.

Here are some (sort of) classic PC RPGs that would probably make excellent discussions if I had my druthers:

2400 A.D.
Escape From Hell (CrookedB did awesome writeups of both of these: 2400 A.D. Escape From Hell)
Legacy of the Ancients
Prophecy I: The Fall of Trinadon
Questron I/II
Fountain of Dreams (not so good, but if not for "Wasteland 2" expectations it would be seen as acceptably fun)
Tangled Tales (the "dumbed down for consoles" of the 1980s, still fun though)
Dark Heart of Uukrul (I made up "Quarex" when naming my mage in this game :hellyeah:

)

Finally, can I just say how awesome Adventure Construction Set must have been on the Amiga? I loved Return of Heracles on my Atari, and I thought about buying Adventure Construction Set for DOS when I heard about it, but CGA games were pretty hard to look at even then.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2012 00:09

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Peas and Rice posted:

The marketing guy in me took one look at that box and went "how the gently caress did they get all those licenses from different companies to publish that all in one place?"

Good question. I did not think Sierra, Mindcraft, SSI, New World Computing, and Bullfrog had much of any relation, other than that I think 3D0 did at one point own New World Computing and distribute Sierra games. I also may be 100% crazy in thinking this.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2012 01:13

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Boldor, are you the gaming historian that I secretly wish I were currently studying to become? I hope someone is paying you to be this awesome.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2012 09:13

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Boldor for president

Friendly Fire posted:

I really liked the Ultima games of this era, but Martian Dreams was especially awesome due to its alternate versions of historical figures on GODDAMN MARS.

Not to mention that it is yet another example of steampunk from when it was an awesome thing for fiction rather than a thing people actually tried to do. No offense, I love that people are actually trying to incorporate steampunk into their lives, but I would much rather that incorporating post-apocalyptic elements into clothing and other aesthetic gear had become trendy.

rope kid posted:

This poo poo blew my mind in 1985.

It is blowing my mind in 2012 to think about how the full-screen explosive astounding experiences of one era become the tiny animated .gifs of another.

Lunael posted:

Might have been the proper start of my English learning, remember having my mother's couple of decades old English-Finnish dictionary by me when playing the game.

That may actually be the worst possible game to learn English on if you want a satisfying experience, given that the final puzzle requires extensive knowledge of the USA's Declaration of Independence from the UK. I am sure many of you know this, but I am not kidding, if you think I am. Easy enough to come by now, but, you know, nigh-impossible for "foreigners" pre-Internet.

Gladi posted:

wow, a lot of good games here, but nobody mentioned Realms of Arkania?

These games hold up pretty well, too--I found it pretty easy to get engrossed in Sword of Destiny just a few years ago, which bodes seemingly well for Star Trail and Shadows Over Riva if I ever actually finish the first one.

DrManiac posted:

The dark Spire is another good one that's such a old school

Reckon yer in the wrong place, pardner. 'Round here, our oldschool game is Darkspyre, not The Dark Spire.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2012 00:04

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

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Underwhelmed posted:

Anyone ever play Knights of Legend?

I never got very far in it, but I remember some friends of mine and I would spend hours making characters for this game.

Yes. Another of those infamous games where making your characters and getting equipped in the first town was probably more fun than the rest of the game, because it was so unbelievably unforgivingly hard. And time-consuming.

Underwhelmed posted:

We never figured out what the gently caress we were doing in that game. We would take our party out of town, usually run into a whole war band of trolls or ogres, and they would tear or painstakingly created avatars to bits.

Yep, that pretty much sounds exactly like the game. The proudest moment of my gaming life is clearly the time I assaulted an orc-lair or something that is the subject of something resembling a quest, and after what was probably six hours (just GETTING TO THE MONSTERS took forever, as you started what I can only describe as a half-mile away), I finally defeated the stupid things, only to discover that four of my six party members had died in the process.

I basically gave up forever, though the next time I tried playing the game I discovered an intriguingly strange bug, where if you joined the Secret Storm mages' guild in Poitle's Lock?, the game asked if you wanted to wear your medallion, and if you said "no," it then glitched and asked if you wanted to "eat it here," as it does when you buy food, and if you also say "no" to that, it goes into your inventory as a weapon called "Secret Storm" that did 1-600 points of damage (two-handed swords/halberds did something like 8-32 and they were the best weapons).

The problem was, this game did everything in the most evil way possible, so since it was impossible to actually be skilled with the Secret Storm, you were basically only going to score a hit if you were incredibly lucky--even if it was an almost-guaranteed instant kill if you did hit. Which I did, once in a while, but still not regularly enough to survive encounters and aghghghhg

# ¿ Mar 26, 2012 06:01

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Hahaha, since that looks just like the opening area from Dungeon Siege, I am now envisioning the Ultima V remake being "the exact gameplay and story from Dungeon Siege but with Ultima people and place names."

# ¿ Mar 26, 2012 08:15

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Dementedghost posted:

Dungeon Siege had a story? I just remember running around killing dudes then suddenly having a minigun.

"Hello milord, thou must help me find my missing pack mule. Take this pitchfork and grenade launcher."

From what I recall, the story was basically "oh no, these monsters have not been seen for ages, and now they are everywhere, EVEN ON YOUR STUPID FARM!" and later "AHHHHHHH!" and eventually "YAY!"

# ¿ Mar 26, 2012 08:45

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Genpei Turtle posted:

The thing about KOL that's so unintuitive compared to most other RPGs is that simply picking the stuff with the biggest numbers is not a good idea. A party entirely decked out in full plate is going to die because only the most fit characters can wear that much weight and swing their weapons more than a couple of times before passing out from fatigue. The combat system also heavily favored using the environment to lure enemies into situations where they were at a disadvantage--since each enemy was roughly about the same strength and skill as a party member, straight-up wading into to the thick of things was pretty dangerous. Hiding behind trees to guard from missile fire and around chokepoints where enemies couldn't see you was the order of the day. There's a guide at GameFAQs now for KOL that goes into pretty insane detail onto how to break the game over your knee in other ways too.

This is all very interesting, and it makes me want to add it to the infinite backlog of DOS games to run through again. It definitely seemed like the kind of game that would be super-fun to actually be able to enjoy. And your comment about how you could probably just do quest battles and win the game is hilarious, since it makes sense, even if gaining a new rank in the arena was one of the most alluring level-up systems ever implemented so I would have a hard time not wanting to do random combats. Unless the levelling was related to doing quests, but I do not think it was.

Genpei Turtle posted:

Good thing random battles were optional if you had horses.

Which also produced a super-memorable fact about the starting town: the stable-owners were racist against dwarves. Every time I started playing, I weighed the fact that I really liked that dwarves could actually wear heavy armor pretty effectively against the fact that I was going to have to survive long enough to get to a different town to buy my dwarves horses

# ¿ Mar 26, 2012 17:29

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Boldor posted:

You don't actually need to know it; standard basic cryptography techniques will work just fine, despite the short encoded text.

Also, that isn't the US Declaration of Independence. It's the US Constitution.

I have been soundly destroyed for trying to remember the end of the game instead of looking it up, haha. Though that only goes for the Constitution part--I clearly at the time had no experience with basic cryptography techniques. Despite all those days "code-breaking" (ahaha) in Covert Action.

eithedog posted:

Another RPG I spent a lot of time with was Elvira. It was an adventure RPG, but with system, that I don't think has been used in any other game. Basically there was a limited amount of spell ingredients, (most of the recipes in the manual), and if I remember correctly, creating a spell from something other produced goblins.

Do you mean a limited amount of spell ingredients available for a supply, or a system where you combined ingredients to create spells? You probably mean the former, in which case I cannot think of any examples (Boldor can), though the latter reminds me of Keef the Thief, which I think we should start calling the "spiritual descendant" of InXile's "Bard's Tale" RPG parody.

Keef the Thief somehow managed to combine a compelling adventure-game-like robbery mechanic, a decent first-person/radar-view combat system, good graphics, enjoyable music, and consistently hilarious prose ... and yet somehow not really work as a game. I think the adventure game elements were to blame, because just randomly exploring and having a good time basically meant you ended up dead as you had not gotten wealthy enough to stock up on spell ingredients in the first town, which you basically needed if you were going to survive more than one combat ever. Plus, it was from an era where a game could include a spell that made a few female characters take their tops off, yet somehow was not the subject of a boycott!

# ¿ Mar 27, 2012 03:07

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Fintilgin posted:

Arx Fatalis is good, but prepare yourself for some really godawful voice acting at times.

But on the plus side, they also released some outtakes, at least one of which made me laugh every time I heard it.

"Do you think that Falan Orbapl... Orbapl ... Falan Orbaplanax. Falan Orbaplanax ... Falan Orbaplanax. 'If you're feeling gas, or indigestion--Orbaplanax can help!'"

I really do not remember the voices being notably bad, actually, other than maybe the protagonist (if you were not silent, honestly I forgot at this point). The trolls were awesome.

AlmightyBob posted:

I still have my complete in box copy of Eric the Unready in my closet, it really is an awesome game.

I assume you are therefore the person who took my boxed copy back in 1994, and I demand you give it back. :mad:

Genpei Turtle posted:

Back then the tinny music from DOS games you got with a dedicated sound card was mindblowing.

The first game I ever played on a computer that had a sound card was King's Quest V. Somehow, the game so utterly failed to impress me that I spent more time being fascinated by Encarta's "spoken encyclopedia entry" feature than playing that game. Really, what blew my mind about sound cards were .mod files, which explains how the demoscene came to define my life about as much as Wasteland's post-apocalyptic aesthetic did. Oh no, my whole life revolves around things I got into around 1991

# ¿ Mar 28, 2012 00:59

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AlmightyBob posted:

Found it at a goodwill maybe 7 years ago

That is a pretty sweet Goodwill find. Are you sure your Goodwill is not actually an Electronics Boutique from 1995 buried in the sands of time?

Doc Hawkins posted:

Thread title?

Hahahaha

Genpei Turtle posted:

True enough. Interesting factoid that you may or may not know--some of the BT music is actually remixed pieces of classical composers.

I am starting to wonder if any musicians in the entire history of gaming have ever written original music. No, but it is amazing just how much game music is blatantly derivative of previous work (often popular work, at that).

My own contribution to the history of figuring out what game music was from what unacknowledged source is in telling anyone who will listen that the "Seven Cities of Gold" opening track was an early-1500s madrigal by Mateo Flecha called "La Bomba" (which at least makes the song roughly-game-era appropriate!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmkwC92rTxI&hd=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYcFcxsYiZM&t=48s
(I used this clip both because it has awesome sweater vests and because the album with this recording on it came out the year before Seven Cities of Gold, suggesting it was possibly where the musician first heard it)

zedar posted:

I decided I had to do this right so went and bought myself some graph paper today. Going to get my old school game on tonight, however much my boyfriend may laugh at me for playing crappy old games. I know deep down inside that what I'm doing is cool.

Yessssss!

School Bully posted:

Well just twice this run, getting to Nashkel with the canon party and realising how boring they are. Just won with Tiax and the rest of the comedy/evil crew; good to see that Minsc is still dead, and missing from his cage at the start of 2.

Aww, you did him a favor! :3:

Now, his opening dialogue would instead be from the afterlife! "Dynaheir?! Yaaaaaaay!"

Still though, I remember being so annoyed that Khalid and Jaheira had any place in the second game, given that they are both incredibly insipid and aggravating at the same time. Everyone knows Ajantis and Yeslick are way more enjoyable to have around!

# ¿ Mar 28, 2012 18:01

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AlmightyBob posted:

I found a sealed copy of the Ultima Collection in Goodwill for $1.99 years ago.

I found a jewel case copy of Dungeon Siege missing the manual and cover art at a thrift store once for $3. But you sound like a professional. A Goodwill Ringer.

Peas and Rice posted:

E2: came out in 2008 or so? I remember finding the one internet connection in whatever town I was vacationing in at the time and downloading it over the course of several hours.

Living the vacation dream. The best I ever managed on vacation was diligently trying to carry on a private message conversation about the then-unreleased Deus Ex: Human Revolution while on a remote Scottish island with one wireless connection to its name.

Bilal posted:

Finding out that your favorite video game soundtracks are straight up plagiarized versions of Koyanisqaatsi or whatever really kills the magic... but it's also fun trying to figure out who your favorite video game composers stole from, like trying to identify samples in hip hop instrumentals.

Now that you mention it, Koyaanisqatsi's entire soundtrack would be excellent ambient music for the Guardian Citadel. Someone tell Mark Morgan, stat!!!

AlmightyBob posted:

Because of problems with their publishers, Digital Tome eventually disbanded and shut down the Siege of Avalon website.

I have a screenshot somewhere of when I installed Siege of Avalon and clicked on the webpage link and was greeted with a super-sexy page of gay erotica, because what else would those who played Siege of Avalon want?

Tortolia posted:

Playing Might and Magic 3, cruising along, exploring a pyramid. Touching crystals that don't seem to do anything. Keep on trucking, eventually save over my game.

Few minutes later check my stats and note my party is now full of 120 year olds.

Might & Magic III actually might be where I developed my rule that if something seems to have not done anything, you should just reload your game and not touch it, because best case scenario it really does nothing/you are not to the part where you need to touch it yet, worst case scenario you are 120 years old or the secret door behind you that leads to a room full of Infinity Golems just opened up.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2012 05:46

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Whack posted:

Do they make games like Baldurs Gate anymore?

Only if you mean "turn-based party CRPGs," in which case we have the upcoming Wasteland 2. And ... that is all.

Though the BeamDog people seem to think that they will make enough money with their Baldur's Gate 1/2 update that they can make a 3rd somewhere down the line, which would certainly be nice.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2012 01:15

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I have been playing TotUV1: The Bard's Tale off and on since 2003, loading up the game whenever I had a tiny amount of time to kill and no motivation to do anything useful. But I did not really play the game in any real extent--I just ran down the street, killed the samurai and anything on the way, and ran back to the Adventurer's Guild. At first because I was afraid of death, and it almost made sense. But by the time my party was level ~13 it occurred to me that I was probably Ulillilliaing the hell out of this game for no reason. But I still did not have time to actually play it, so my party was like level 17 by the time I boldly entered the Wine Cellar.

Anyway, I saw in the "before you play" thread that Rogues are useless--is this true? Is it unambiguously better to have an extra spellcaster instead of a Rogue? I suppose now that I think of it my Rogue has literally done nothing the entire game, being unable to attack from the back ranks and having encountered nothing to disarm or whatever it is they do.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2012 04:42

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xiw posted:

One game series I haven't seen mentioned is the Dark Designs games (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dark-designs-i-grelminars-staff) - these were party-based dungeon crawls with a nice automap and the ability to import characters between games. The major point of interest is that these were written by John Carmack - yes, that John Carmack. I played all three games in this series on the Apple II, sadly it appears that the third game never made it to PC.

You have done it, busting out a game that not only was designed by someone famous, but did not appear in any of the lists of DOS CRPGs I found over the years, and that looks like it might actually be fun to play.... YOU SAID YOU CAN IMPORT YOUR CHARACTERS!!! WOOOO TO THE LIST

xiw posted:

Legends of Valour ... I painstakingly copied out the enormous city map on 2mm graph paper. I'm pretty sure I sent more time on that than actually playing the game...

Is there some obvious reason why that was a good idea, or did you just go crazy? I am picturing the game coming with a map that you decided would look better on graph paper, but maybe you are saying that you copied the game's automap to a real map so you would be able to reference it constantly?

# ¿ Apr 3, 2012 20:49

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We need federal CRPG mapping standards to help prevent this kind of thing.

Edit: I hope that did not sound mean. I never could get into graphing by hand, though, probably because Might & Magic II was my first exposure to the kind of game where you would have wanted to make a map in the past, but now it made its own maps if you had Cartography!

# ¿ Apr 3, 2012 21:22

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Captain Rufus posted:

I've been collecting for the Atari 8 bit computer line,

You are a lunatic after my own heart. It is seemingly pretty uncommon to find other people who got into CRPGs via the Atari 800/XL/XE/Xcetera. I probably spent more time playing Temple of Apshai Trilogy, Ultima III, and Return of Heracles on my Atari than I did any other games ... even if my attention to Ultima III was partially because I could not figure out how to save my characters and always had to start over, tee hee.

I always thought of Gemstone Warrior as the most direct "spiritual predecessor" to the Diablo games.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2012 00:20

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AlmightyBob posted:

I have an Atari 800 in my closet but have never hooked it up.

The time is right. The market is prepared. Quite possibly the best home translation of Frogger awaits.

Actually the only games really worth playing are the RPGs and the things that are so completely crazy that nobody ever talks about them. Like Boulders & Bombs, where you control either a spinning auger clearing a path for a spelunker, or the alien birds that fly overhead and shoot lasers at the spelunker (and the lasers can also grow into mold to impede the progress of the auger).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Q-a4F-Fwk

I think this counts as a derail now. As an apology, have the best DOS CRPG character generation music ever (though the static that you can hear is not actually part of the song, this guy's rig is totally messed up):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMyQ2jflzrQ

# ¿ Apr 6, 2012 01:34

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Neo Rasa, I have never heard of Last Armageddon ever (no surprise per what you said), but that PC Engine intro is blowing my mind. Thanks for that, since I imagine Japanese DOS(-equivalent) RPGs are not something most of us know much about. Other than how the Tunnels & Trolls DOS game was apparently a port from the Japanese version, which explains why it was so mind-numbingly confusing looking to we stupid ... ahhahahah, a talking slime thing, this Last Armageddon intro is hilarious and I have on idea what is going on. Edit yet again: Oh my god, the battle music in that game is the most amazingly inappropriate but great combat song ever.

Neo Rasa posted:

Has anyone here played Dinosaur Resurrection or Sorcerian?

OH I MISSED IT Yes, I played Sorcerian, I thought it was pretty great; I bought both it and Zeliard, which has to be my favorite DOS action/RPG ever, not that there is much competition in that regard. Sorcerian I only really remember because I found some place where you could stand on a log and hold down the space bar with a rock and get infinite experience from the little weak things that constantly popped out of the cave walls to attack you. Edit: Ahahaha, from the gameplay video you posted, it seems like there were probably areas like that in just about every level.

Captain Rufus posted:

Less people to fight with outside of ultra rares like Bounty Bob Strikes Back! and Pastfinder which aren't RPGs and beyond the scope of this thread.

Bounty Bob Strikes Back! is ultra-rare? Like, at all, or an actual complete copy? I have owned it since it came out, and I suppose it was a lot more fun than Miner 2049er, but I assume it is not ultra-rare due to its fun level but rather because not many were made or something?

Captain Rufus posted:

WINDOWS STUFF STARTS HERE
I also managed another retro RPG bit this week. I finally got VMWare Player to install Windows 98SE.

Now you can play Mech 2 Mercs, Magic the Gathering Microprose, XWing vs Tie Fighter, Warlords 3, Warhammer, and many other games that refuse to run in Windows XP and 7. This gives us more RPG and near RPGs we can play without having to do like Lazy Game Reviews and have a half dozen different PCs around. You may want to have CPU Grabber around as well. Even with 2 OSes going HOMM3 Complete said my Win 98 VMachine with only 1 core covering it was 3600mhz. For a game that's recommended CPU was 166. Some titles never had frame limiters, like the SSI 40K games. (And most of them are kind of RPGs. More SRPG than normal but hey.. the Electronic RPG is a ridiculously wide genre by this point.)

This is going to sound critical when it is just curious: is Windows 98SE really the best version of Windows for the Post-Windows-95-Pre-Modern-Windows gaming enthusiast? I would have thought Windows 2000 would be preferred, but I assume you are going to tell me that due to its NT integration it does not work as well?
_{Plus I never had any problems with Windows ME but I realize I am the only person anywhere in the world who feels this way}

Dr. Quarex fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Apr 6, 2012

# ¿ Apr 6, 2012 03:38

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CobiWann posted:

Here's an old Origin RPG some of you might remember - Bad Blood.

A nice game, unfairly maligned by the recent PC Gamer Saturday Crapshoot. Innovative (though sometimes not in a good way), immersive, reasonably-sized, decently written. Box art and poster insert proudly featured on the post-apocalyptic-wall of my office :c00l:

Drifter posted:

Don't EVER play M&M 9. EVER. Do you hear me? Say it. Say you won't play it.

You are a naughty man. Might & Magic IX was probably the worst game in the Might & Magic series at the time, but it also basically played just like 6/7/8 but with a less interesting storyline and not-so-great polygonal graphics. I have never understood the hate for what is basically an average game (though it certainly had some technical problems).

Drifter posted:

Crusaders looks like a bad version of Dark Messiah, which you can get on STEAM (just play the demo of it if you want a taste).

This, on the other hand, I basically agree with completely. I tried playing through it a few years ago, and even though it is kind of fun in some ways, you also notice by a few hours into the game that they forgot to put anything interesting to do in the game.

the black husserl posted:

Does anyone want to take the time to explain exactly why Might and Magic IX is so bad? I've always been curious...

No-one will dare respond to this, because THEY KNOW THAT POSITION IS INDEFENSIBLE!

# ¿ Apr 6, 2012 20:39

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sethsez posted:

I have trouble picturing someone who finds 1 hard to get into but 2 just right.

For most people I just recommend starting on 3, since that's a massive leap in general playability.

There is something to be said for 2's significantly greater graphical appeal making the entire game seem more forgiving--just having a sky somehow makes it seem much more user-friendly, though that could just be my Crazy talking. The auto-mapping feature is a more tangible reason that it is easier to handle than 1. Also there is an easier way to quit out of the game than just rebooting

(or maybe mine is the only computer that crashes when you alt-Q out of Might & Magic 1)

3 is definitely a lot easier to get into than 1 or 2, though.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2012 01:05

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chairface posted:

Hey dudes, let talk about Realms of Arkania. These games kicked rear end and continue to kick rear end.

Pretty good games. Or at least the first one, which I have been playing occasionally for a couple of years. I admit that the combat seemed overwhelming at first, not because it was hard to figure out but because it seemed like every combat would take a thousand hours, but once you get things figured out it goes a lot quicker. These games definitely occupy a fascinating place for CRPGs, given that they are like a cross between Might & Magic (town/dungeon exploring) and, I dunno, Fallout (just for the general style of the combats, obviously not the genre at all).

Though are the sound effects always super-awful, or is it just my sound card that makes everything sound like a loud distorted version of a normal sound effect?

# ¿ Apr 8, 2012 06:52

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Yeah, the sewers are roughly ten times harder than you expect considering you can probably get to them within fifteen moves of the start of the game.

I can see them. The pegasi. I can see the screen saying Pegasus BREATHES FIRE on Sir Felgar for 15 points of damage! On (everyone else too) for 15 points of damage! Everyone basically dead and there are still ten more to go! THIS IS THE HARDEST GAME EVER!

By the time you are powerful enough to actually go into the sewers, you will have probably forgotten about the sewers. There is probably something important down there, admittedly, since that is how these games work. But you do not need it yet, whatever it is. Look out for the locked door with the Carnage Spirits behind it, too. They cannot be hurt by normal weapons. Why do I remember any of this?

# ¿ Apr 8, 2012 09:46

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Thuryl posted:

Also, Sir Felgar? Only scrubs use the pregen party.

Oh, how dare you! Actually, for whatever reason, I decided that Sir Felgar was as good a name as any for a Knight when I first played, so when I made my own characters and transferred the items from the default party, I re-made a new knight called Sir Felgar :confused:

but used original names for my other characters. Except my magician, who I always named Merlin III, with the justification that "everybody" would name their magician Merlin II. That probably meant I saw one of my friends do it once and had to be different, fundamentally ignoring that I was still using the name "Merlin."

Well, there you have it. An important breakdown of Might & Magic character naming tactics.

Davos posted:

So I think that pretty much the oldest CRPG I've really played and enjoyed was Fallout 1. Do any of these pre-Fallout era RPGs have any real plot or story behind them, or are they mostly dungeon crawling and such? I'm really curious to try some out, heard a lot of good things about Might & Magic games and Ultima VII, but a bit wary about if they might be too dated for me.

Pre-Fallout 1 era games that had what you are probably looking for ... the Might & Magic games definitely did, though you might have a hard time getting into II and would want to start with III. Genpei Turtle touched on this, but Ultima IV/V/VI/VII/VII.V all had great stories and fit the time frame, but you might have a hard time getting into any before VI. Roman numerals are awesome. Plenty of other early CRPGs had decent stories (in the sense of "lots of text, plot progression, interesting twists and turns), from the Magic Candle games to Escape From Hell to a bunch of others, but if you cannot get past the fundamentally arcane gameplay you might not be able to really notice the story at all.

The Ultima Underworld games are pretty great in this regard, actually. As are the two Worlds of Ultima games--some think Martian Dreams is better, some think Savage Empire is better, but both are based on the Ultima VI engine and so still hold up pretty well.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2012 07:11

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seorin posted:

Haha, wow, that is amazing. Somehow I'm not surprised the new Bard's Tale from inXile turned out the way it did.

I apparently did not make it this far in Stonekeep.

Yeah, this ... wow. And here I thought Bard's Tale's music was a result of Brian Fargo deciding to tell Tommy Tallarico to just go berserk. No, apparently he was interested in elf song-and-dance numbers even almost ten years previously.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2012 03:55

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I feel like Heart of Winter was generally thought of as the most combat-heavy of an already combat-heavy series. I know the level cap was something ridiculous like 40, though, so if the idea of super-high-level-insanity appeals to you, you might want to check it out.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2012 09:13

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Peas and Rice posted:

It's not 100% applicable but Amazon recommended to me this 700-some-page tome that is a stunning history of graphic adventure games. There's a great chapter about Quest for Glory and an interview with Corey Cole in there, and it covers pretty much every other graphic adventure up to and including Machinarium. They may need to update it now that DoubleFine's adventure has sort of revived interest in the genre, but as a comprehensive look at the graphic adventure genre you could do way worse. It's also less than on your kindle if you don't want the dead tree edition.

Reckon somebody's postin' 'bout the wrong zhaun-ruh in this here thread ... reckon y'better git out.

No, actually, I just added that to my wishlist. I might as well link the other half-dozen "books about RPGs" I want to buy someday to this thread in case other people do not realize such things exist:

Dungeons and Desktops: The History of Computer Role-Playing Games

From Apshai to Zork -- this has never been in stock since I heard about it years ago, so I can only assume that it is the most amazing collector's item ever. Or it does not exist. Actually I am going to contact Simon & Schuster to see if they can confirm or deny whether it was ever actually published, given that nobody in any collecting realm seemingly has a copy.

Ultima: The Ultimate Collector's Guide: 2012 Edition -- yes, that is right, a guide to HOW TO OWN ALL ULTIMA PARAPHERNALIA

The Official Book of Ultima -- everything Shay Addams touches turns to gold.

The Greatest Games: the 93 Best Computer Games(?)

The Evolution of Fantasy Role-Playing Games

Through Dungeons Deep (I think this is entirely tabletop-focused though)

Heroic Worlds: A History and Guide to Role Playing Games (also largely tabletop-focused, but the reviews suggest it may be the most amazing gaming-book-artifact ever, at least up until 1991 when it was published)

Hey look, Ye Olde Infocomme Shoppe compiled a crazy list of books like this:

http://yois.if-legends.org/books.php

# ¿ Apr 25, 2012 23:32

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Dude, Space Rogue. I like it so much that I have the box art framed. Only in part because he is a dashing Space Rogue wearing a turquoise turtleneck under his leather space-gear.

That is probably the only trading/fighting/exploring space simulator game I ever played and loved (unless TRADE WARS 2002~! counts). It is not only just plain fun, it holds up reasonably well due to the timeless "vague polygons floating in a void" visuals and nicely-done top-down interior scenes for starbases and colonies and the like. It even has a pretty fun story, and one of the most harrowing "survival horror" segments out of nowhere of any game ever, when you have to recover something from an abandoned mine and basically if you run into the reason it was abandoned, you die, because it kills you if it gets to you. So awesome.

# ¿ May 1, 2012 10:44

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Sweet, did you mail in your $5 for a disk-size conversion in 1988 and they just now finally got back to you?

Why has no-one ever talked about the "Dungeon Master 'Kids Dungeon'" in this thread? This seems like a fascinating design decision that was clearly never replicated anywhere else.

Also, totally sweet find, that box is in great condition!

# ¿ May 3, 2012 20:29

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

NEW THINGS TO READ ABOUT DARK HEART OF UUKRUL IN 2012 :supaburn:

One of my favorite RPGs, too, and also so hard that I have never beaten it despite multiple serious efforts. According to the walkthrough I dug up, I think I missed something I cannot actually get back to per the maze I am in or something.

_{_{"fun" fact: "Quarex" was created when I needed to make a name for my magician in Dark Heart of Uukrul and randomly typed names until arriving at "Quarex Osis" and deciding that was the coolest thing I had ever typed in my entire life. Good job, young child me. You were totally right.}}

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 00:13

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 10:04

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

It has been entirely too long since I did it now to remember, but I know there is a way in Arcanum to have five followers even if your Charisma is not high enough to have more than two. I want to say that Sogg? Mead Mug and The Lizardman are the two others besides the Dog who you can trick the game into letting join ... might have been the mysterious assassin guy you get in the elf city or whatever, though.

Because clearly everyone's goal in Arcanum is having a small army follow them around.

I think we should start selling old CRPGs to each other in this thread.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2012 19:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > The Old School PC RPG Megathread: Gaming with rose-colored goggles

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