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thrawn527 posted:I know prequels don't have to be bad as a rule, but I was having this discussion the other day with some people I know and we had a really hard time coming up with good prequels. Reboots don't count, and they're not telling the old story but inventing a new one that doesn't actually fit with the canon, so they don't fall into the same pitfalls. Oh, and Temple of Doom doesn't really count either, because the only thing that makes it a prequel is the date at the beginning. The Spartacus prequel was awesome, well written and enriched the rest of the series.
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Jun 9, 2012 15:16
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Chairman Capone posted:I'm at a political theory conference at Cornell this weekend. By complete coincidence, I learned that the guy I'm staying with is teaching a course called "The Politics of Battlestar Galactica". I am hugely jealous of both him and his students. This is awesome. I was on track to teach "IR and Pop Culture" but changed it to something else because I'm on the market and "Foreign Policy and Modern War" looks better. But I was planning on using BSG as one of the main points of discussion.
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Jun 9, 2012 15:25
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VaultAggie posted:Would this be the right place to talk about the main series? I'm marathoning through it right now and I'm currently about halfway through Season 2, right after Admiral Cain(?) dies. As no-one else has answered you yet, sure go for it - at least so far as I'm concerned.
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Jun 9, 2012 16:16
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VaultAggie posted:Would this be the right place to talk about the main series? I'm marathoning through it right now and I'm currently about halfway through Season 2, right after Admiral Cain(?) dies. Did anyone else get a lesbian vibe from Admiral Cain? I think she liked Starbuck.
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Jun 9, 2012 16:31
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truth masseuse posted:Did anyone else get a lesbian vibe from Admiral Cain? I think she liked Starbuck. I'm unsure if this is a joke, or if you haven't seen Razor (in which case, yes, Cain is a lesbian). Although it does make me wonder if they decided that Cain should be a lesbian during the filming of the original episodes, or only during Razor's production. Speaking of, I know this was discussed in the other thread, but I'm planning a rewatch of everything (show, movies, webisodes, Caprica, and Blood and Chrome if it ever comes out) and I was wondering if anyone could remember what the consensus was for when to watch Razor and The Plan. If I remember right, the best order was to watch Razor after "The Captain's Hand" and The Plan after "No Exit"?
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Jun 9, 2012 16:52
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Chairman Capone posted:I'm unsure if this is a joke, or if you haven't seen Razor (in which case, yes, Cain is a lesbian). Although it does make me wonder if they decided that Cain should be a lesbian during the filming of the original episodes, or only during Razor's production. The best time to watch The Plan is a few months after you have finished watching the rest of the series and are desperate for another Galactica fix and are more able to look over its flaws.
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Jun 9, 2012 17:01
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The Plan is really bad and you should avoid it unless you want to see dongs.
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Jun 9, 2012 17:06
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Watch the plan for the attack on the colonies, then turn it off.
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Jun 9, 2012 17:40
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Chairman Capone posted:I'm unsure if this is a joke, or if you haven't seen Razor (in which case, yes, Cain is a lesbian). Although it does make me wonder if they decided that Cain should be a lesbian during the filming of the original episodes, or only during Razor's production. I saw Razor at least twice. Though I don't remember it being made explicitly, or even implicitly, clear. Just remember getting the feeling maybe she had a thing for Starbuck.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:21
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truth masseuse posted:I saw Razor at least twice. Though I don't remember it being made explicitly, or even implicitly, clear. Just remember getting the feeling maybe she had a thing for Starbuck. Cain was in a relationship with Gina Inviere, the #6 network engineer, aboard Pegasus. It's not something they played down or anything, Kendra and Gina even talk about it at one point. That's also a large part of the reason why Cain went properly off the deep end; it was made fairly clear that Cain (already known for being very authoritarian) became pretty much psychopathic after realising she'd had a sexual relationship with 'a machine', and that's why it went from "Get that thing off my bridge" to full on rape and torture. rolleyes fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 18:29
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rolleyes posted:Cain was in a relationship with Gina Inviere, the #6 network engineer, aboard Pegasus. It's not something they played down or anything, Kendra and Gina even talk about it at one point. That's also a large part of the reason why Cain went properly off the deep end when she realised what had happened, and it went from "Get that thing off my bridge" to full on rape and torture. This has motivated me to halt my SG:A marathon to go back and see this. I have no recollection of this event.
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Jun 9, 2012 18:32
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truth masseuse posted:This has motivated me to halt my SG:A marathon to go back and see this. I have no recollection of this event. They never quite say "hey yeah so about you and Cain gettin' it orrrn" but it's a lot more than just a "nudge nudge wink wink" type thing. Also Gina is at the captain's table with Cain and the other officers prior to the initial attack - watch their body language (also why the gently caress would a network engineer be at the captain's table otherwise). Another bit of trivia - when Kendra first meets Gina she notes in passing that Inviere is Old Gemenese for either "insurrection" or "resurrection" (can't remember which off the top of my head), presumably to make it clear to anyone who had somehow missed it that hey this is Tricia Helfer so bad poo poo's gonna go down. Also edited my post above to add a bit more background. rolleyes fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jun 9, 2012 |
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Jun 9, 2012 18:41
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If you really insist on not watching The Plan then at least buy the loving soundtrack. Seriously.
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Jun 9, 2012 19:44
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I wouldn't bother with The Plan because it's clear the cylons and the creators of the show didn't have one.
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Jun 9, 2012 21:51
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1st AD posted:The Plan is really bad and you should avoid it unless you want to see dongs. And to watch Al shank a kid.
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Jun 10, 2012 01:00
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truth masseuse posted:I saw Razor at least twice. Though I don't remember it being made explicitly, or even implicitly, clear. Just remember getting the feeling maybe she had a thing for Starbuck. If you watched the original broadcast it was definitely made clear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAjCLmOMU84 Toasty.
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Jun 10, 2012 07:42
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I guess I'll share my thoughts so far, then. Holy poo poo this show really owns and wasn't what I was expecting. There's far more character growth and drama than I had thought and the battle scenes are really great. Admiral adama is the loving champ and gets poo poo done. Starbuck, Apollo and roslin are all great too and even some of the more minor characters are great. The only complaint I have is loving Boomer. Ever since she was found to be a cylon, all she does it bitch and moan about how no one trusts her even though her loving race genocided humanity. I couldn't give two shits about her or her loving baby and I'm hoping she heads back to cylon base or something. I am enjoying the cylon themselves though and I'm still confused as to what the hell they're trying to do. Great show so far but I heard season 3 and 4 aren't up to par?
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Jun 11, 2012 02:51
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Season 3 has a strong first five episodes (along with the last season 2 episodes, I think most people consider it the highlight of the series), and season 3 also has a good end, but a lot of weak points in the middle. Season 4 similarly has a decent start, and some incredibly strong episodes in the middle, but is also uneven and the show's end is very divisive.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:57
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VaultAggie posted:Great show so far but I heard season 3 and 4 aren't up to par? Stop halfway through season 4. It's a perfectly good end point and the show is complete dogshit after that.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:01
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IRQ's opinion regarding the latter half of season four is relatively popular, but by no means universal. So basically you should watch the entire thing and decide for yourself.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:28
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1st AD posted:The Plan is really bad and you should avoid it unless you want to see dongs. The zoom on the cock story is really amazing.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:45
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DirtyRobot posted:IRQ's opinion regarding the latter half of season four is relatively popular, but by no means universal. So basically you should watch the entire thing and decide for yourself. I don't think I've ever met someone who liked how BSG ended. Anecdotal, yeah, but my god was that ending a non-sensical shitshow that ignored major plots, relationships, and any semblance of logic. And no I am not in any way talking about the supernatural elements of the show. The end just makes literally no loving sense to a rational person. The cylons had no plan. The humans are dumber than the average lemming, and the finale is Star Wars prequels levels of loving stupid franchise-ruining stupidity. The last half season of that show ruins everything before it. IRQ fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 04:52
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If he skips the second half of season 4, he will miss out the mutiny arc. I thought those two episodes were pretty loving good, but part of that is because I didn't really know what to expect when they first aired.
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Jun 11, 2012 05:15
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HoveringCheesecake posted:If he skips the second half of season 4, he will miss out the mutiny arc. I thought those two episodes were pretty loving good, but part of that is because I didn't really know what to expect when they first aired. I agree that that is one of the highlights of the last two seasons. But at the same time, I think the storyline would have been far more powerful if it had proceeded as originally intended before the writers strike the mutiny succeeds on every ship except the Galactica, they all jump away, and they all get destroyed by the Cylons, leaving the Galactica's crew alone as the last human survivors
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Jun 11, 2012 05:25
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Saw a promo for Longmire, I guess some sort of western TV show on A&E set in Wyoming in modern times. Anyways Starbuck aka Katie Sackoff is one of the main cast as a sheriff, just thought I'd pass along the heads up.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:14
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Chairman Capone posted:I agree that that is one of the highlights of the last two seasons. But at the same time, I think the storyline would have been far more powerful if it had proceeded as originally intended before the writers strike the mutiny succeeds on every ship except the Galactica, they all jump away, and they all get destroyed by the Cylons, leaving the Galactica's crew alone as the last human survivors Wow, that would have been really cool, and perfectly thematic with the show. I like the first half of the finale, with all the shooting and stuff, but the other half just made me sad. Not in the "oh this is so sad" stuff but just the wasted potential of the entire thing. Plus, what happened to Starbuck.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:16
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The last ten episodes of BSG are amazing. Every episode is amazing. I love BSG. It's my favourite show. Everything is great. Every drat minute. I hate you all.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:23
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Chairman Capone posted:I agree that that is one of the highlights of the last two seasons. But at the same time, I think the storyline would have been far more powerful if it had proceeded as originally intended before the writers strike the mutiny succeeds on every ship except the Galactica, they all jump away, and they all get destroyed by the Cylons, leaving the Galactica's crew alone as the last human survivors Yeah definitely. I almost mentioned that in my post. It certainly would have been another ballsy move after the mid-season hiatus finale or whatever the gently caress you want to call it.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:25
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incredible bear posted:The last ten episodes of BSG are amazing. Every episode is amazing. I love BSG. It's my favourite show. Everything is great. Every drat minute. I hate you all. You probably also like Hitler.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:29
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Chairman Capone posted:I agree that that is one of the highlights of the last two seasons. But at the same time, I think the storyline would have been far more powerful if it had proceeded as originally intended before the writers strike the mutiny succeeds on every ship except the Galactica, they all jump away, and they all get destroyed by the Cylons, leaving the Galactica's crew alone as the last human survivors Or have the ruined Earth be the official ending Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PItHRedVs70 etalian fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 06:37
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I actually don't mind the ending, but I always liked Olmos's proposed ending. The fleet jumps to modern Earth and then we nuke them out of orbit.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:47
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Pops Mgee posted:I actually don't mind the ending, but I always liked Olmos's proposed ending. There was a comic book remake of Galactica 1980 a few years ago, and this was what happened.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:56
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IRQ posted:Stop halfway through season 4. It's a perfectly good end point and the show is complete dogshit after that. I think stopping halfway through Season 4's last episode makes for the best end. You still see everything that is good in Season 4 but you don't have to suffer through the big bag of rotten dog diarrhea that is the final 30 minutes of Battlestar Galactica. I mean unless you like dogshit, which is just fine, we all have our sins. Literally every proposed ending is better then what we actually got. It's the worst finale in TV, not on it's own merits (although it would still make top 5 easily) but because what preceded it was so loving good and it just throws all of it in the trash. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 11:45
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One thing that bugged me about the season finale was the fact that everyone just kinda goes along with Lee's decision. Maybe they took a vote off-screen or whatever, but still I can't imagine everyone being cool with the idea of dismantling their entire civilization to go live like cavemen.
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Jun 11, 2012 12:07
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Shorter Than Some posted:One thing that bugged me about the season finale was the fact that everyone just kinda goes along with Lee's decision. Maybe they took a vote off-screen or whatever, but still I can't imagine everyone being cool with the idea of dismantling their entire civilization to go live like cavemen. The funny thing is that it wouldn't have been unimaginably difficult to write an actual reason for them to get rid of the ships if they absolutely had to go that route. Too much space radiation or something. Unstable cores after 4+ years without any decent maintenance and they might blow up any moment. Leftover Cylons that might be able to track them. But no, the writers go with "Let's live like cavemen because FUTURE ROBOTS".
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Jun 11, 2012 12:19
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But that does fit with the overall theme of breaking the cycle which explicitly involved technology leading to ruin. The only way to get rid of the ships but make everything follow was to get rid of all their technology. Plus, it isn't that much of a leap to go to everyone and say, "Look, we've had a hell of a time trying to survive with our tech and the tech that evolved and tried to kill us. Let's just drop it all and live within nature's constraints?" It's not the cleanest way to abandon all the tech but it plays into the themes running throughout the show. Also, I love Season 3 and 4 (minus a few midseason episodes) and the ending. Some people just don't like it when everything isn't all explained out for them (or went somewhere they didn't agree with).
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Jun 11, 2012 16:59
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Thwomp posted:But that does fit with the overall theme of breaking the cycle which explicitly involved technology leading to ruin. The only way to get rid of the ships but make everything follow was to get rid of all their technology. But that doesn't break the cycle, it simply pushes it forward for 200,000 when once again mankind doesn't know how to handle it responsibly. Here we have a society which has deeply and personally experienced where not treating machines with respect leads to, with ACTUAL machines amongst them, a chance to build a human/cylon society which can finally co-exist, and what do they do? Toss the machines into the sun, separate the humans and cylons except for two examples and ensure that in around 1000 years everything has either been forgotten or is at best a scary campfire story with absolutely nothing preventing it happening again. Look at our history. What exactly screams "living responsibly with technology" to you? The military drones? Covert surveillance? Agent Orange? Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Way to go Lee. Thwomp posted:Plus, it isn't that much of a leap to go to everyone and say, "Look, we've had a hell of a time trying to survive with our tech and the tech that evolved and tried to kill us. Let's just drop it all and live within nature's constraints?" It's not the cleanest way to abandon all the tech but it plays into the themes running throughout the show. It's a huge, gigantic leap to assume. Even in the fleet they had 21st century healthcare, constant source of food, fresh water, warm beds, modern plumbing, etc. I could see Lee and maybe other people consent to that just because their experiences have been so much more tremendous compared to the population at large. Everyone else? No. Besides, even if all 50,000 people magically lose their minds, they don't actually guarantee anything. There wasn't anyone who said "Waaiit, since we can't write anything down or keep any sort of permanent records because you just dropped our means to do so to the sun, how do we know that our descendants won't create death robots?" It's just so, so stupid and there would have been dozens of better ways to go to. I don't understand how the team who gave us seasons 1-3 could gently caress up that hard.
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Jun 11, 2012 17:19
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DarkCrawler posted:But that doesn't break the cycle, it simply pushes it forward for 200,000 when once again mankind doesn't know how to handle it responsibly. Here we have a society which has deeply and personally experienced where not treating machines with respect leads to, with ACTUAL machines amongst them, a chance to build a human/cylon society which can finally co-exist, and what do they do? Toss the machines into the sun, separate the humans and cylons except for two examples and ensure that in around 1000 years everything has either been forgotten or is at best a scary campfire story with absolutely nothing preventing it happening again. Ugh. Lee's plan wasn't ever stated to permanently break the cycle for all eternity. Just to break it there and then and hope for the best in the future. And the show is purposefully ambiguous about if it was successful or not. You certainly get the inclination that the cycle is beginning anew but it's certainly not ordained anymore. DarkCrawler posted:It's a huge, gigantic leap to assume. Even in the fleet they had 21st century healthcare, constant source of food, fresh water, warm beds, modern plumbing, etc. I could see Lee and maybe other people consent to that just because their experiences have been so much more tremendous compared to the population at large. Everyone else? No. No it's not. Just look how quickly people decided to stay on New Caprica. Now that was a shithole planet and even with their technology, life was still hard. But the colonials wanted to settle somewhere because living in a ship sucked rear end. Now they're presented with a perfect planet, a Galactica that's pretty completely broken, and the main Cylon threat gone. However, everything that drove them to this place was due in part to their failure with technology. So Lee's idea of laying down all their arms, technology, and worries to start a new existence by making a return to nature is a pretty powerful one. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 17:40
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I like the ending and you people are all crazy  Admittedly, it could have been handled a bit better, but well, writer's strike.
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Jun 11, 2012 17:47
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Thwomp posted:Ugh. Lee's plan wasn't ever stated to permanently break the cycle for all eternity. Just to break it there and then and hope for the best in the future. I'm pretty sure his intention was to break the cycle. That implies some sort of you know, permanent status. And really after all their sacrifices, literally billions of dead in God knows how many civilizations and finally they have a chance to end it all and they go for "ambiguous"? When they could have literally made "RESPECT. TECHNOLOGY." a law, religion and unforgettable ethos of their entire society by retaining their technology. Thwomp posted:No it's not. Just look how quickly people decided to stay on New Caprica. Now that was a shithole planet and even with their technology, life was still hard. But the colonials wanted to settle somewhere because living in a ship sucked rear end. Hard. But not hunter gatherer hard. Not anywhere close. They had farms and houses, and bathrooms. Go to the shittiest most dirty Siberian town you can find and ask them if they want to move into warm, sunny Africa and spend their days collecting berries, eating insects and chasing prey for dozens of miles and they will look you like you are a lunatic. And it's a powerful idea if you are a lunatic. But I didn't think the people in the show were lunatics. This is a society where for the last four seasons we've had a political fight over everything and when they reach a paradise planet and it's untapped resources in front of it, they decide to stay gently caress to all of those resources and become children of the nature? Make it actually ridiculously hard to live in that Eden? ALL of them? If there is one thing Galactica did well it showed the realistic nature of how their society reacted into everything that came in front of them. They were never unanimous in everything. And it was very well written. The finale crapped all over it. And I would argue that technology in itself was not the problem. It's no problem to like the ending, if you ignore the actual content, the music, the scenery and all that is very powerful. But Battlestar Galactica was always able to deliver exceedingly well written scenes that also had great music and visuals. That's what I wanted. Not something that ignores everything established thus far.
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Jun 11, 2012 18:18
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