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Why can't you just leave me with my Battlestar, you jerks? You jerky jerks.
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Mar 22, 2012 06:46
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DarkCrawler posted:So I'm actually fine with no more BSG. This is, of course, the logical path, but my brain still hasn't recovered from the trauma of the show not being around anymore. My withdrawal symptoms keep me up at night.
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Mar 22, 2012 18:26
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Red Crown posted:That, and Admiral Adama talking to Kat on her deathbed at the end of The Passage. I'd forgotten that he tells her that him and his wife had always wanted a daughter. "And it was such a blessing that Kara became a part of my life. Excuse me, Kat, I think I'm going to go see how she's doing. Get well soon."
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Apr 17, 2012 17:43
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DarkCrawler posted:The music and visuals of course rocked, as well as actor performances. Which I guess explains how it's still liked by some. But imagine reading that poo poo on a storyboard or a book.  The medium is the message. It's not a storyboard or a book. It's an audio-visual narrative. Thus, it's a waste of effort to worry about what it looks like on paper.
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Jun 11, 2012 22:30
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Dreylad posted:Man that whole Cylon disease arc really didn't go anywhere. Even the origins of the probe didn't really add up to anything. So a relativistic approach to the topic of genocide is an arc that goes nowhere to you? I think it's one of the most fascinatingly divisive stories of the whole show because you still have people today arguing about it. For my money, of course they shouldn't have done it. Piece of a man's soul, etc. Origins of the probe: Mythical Earth. That's about it, and it doesn't really matter beyond that.
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Jun 15, 2012 19:23
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DarkCrawler posted:Why though? It was a textbook example of self-defense. Cylons were as pure evil as one could probably get to and were still trying to kill all humans on a daily basis. Hell, the only good Cylon, Athena, was on Galactica and would have been saved. I don't see anything morally wrong about their actions. It's like if you could have killed every Nazi on the planet with a press of a button. After they had won WWII and were trying to kill the remaining Jews. No, I'm pretty sure it would have been more like killing every German on the planet with the press of a button after they had won WWII. That's the issue. Caprica Six and Boomer (for all her subsequent failures) had proven that they were conscious beings capable of independent thought with a little push. Did a great deal of them deserve more condemnation by the end of the show than they got? I might grant you that. Did the entire race, one that turned out to be completely manipulated by a single malevolent tyrant at the top named John, deserve to be snuffed out with ease? Hell the gently caress no. BTW this is waaay more interesting a topic than the ending.
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Jun 16, 2012 16:58
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DarkCrawler posted:This analogy doesn't work because there are no civilians on Cylon side. It's like asking if you would follow the nuclear strike on a compound where only the Soviet military and political leaders were. Also all of them made the decision to nuke U.S. and were okay with it. Also they have slaves. And like to partake in torture and horrific scientific experiments and random executions. Some of them are dangerous religious fundamentalists to boot. Because humanity is culpable for all that stuff too so it's hard to say they had the right to enact galactic justice through biological warfare, thus finally accomplishing the only atrocity that separated them from the Cylons.
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Jun 16, 2012 18:53
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Humanity, or the Twelve Colonies, is culpable for the same kinds of actions throughout their history. Throughout the show they keep asking themselves if they even deserve to survive, and if that's a tough question for them, they're probably not entitled to exact punishment on other groups of people, even if they're a genocidal people.
Kull the Conqueror fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 16, 2012 |
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Jun 16, 2012 20:45
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You know what? It's not defense. It's a total act of aggression. It's preventative, but that's a scary word when it comes to killing millions of people all at the same time. I think what's probably the core of where we disagree is that I think that despite their unconscionable acts, the Cylons remain peers of humans. They're capable of logic, creativity, and love. You can't just snuff them out. It's deplorable.
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Jun 16, 2012 23:42
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DarkCrawler posted:And hey, evil people are always capable of logic, creativity and love, hell, Hitler was a a great politician, a half-decent painter and had Eva Braun. But if a Jew had been holding a button in WWII that would have allowed him to kill all ranking Nazi members would he be a monster for pressing it? Would it be deplorable for him to kill actual volunteer combatants who had committed genocide on his family and friends? Is killing always wrong to you or something? That all sounds a lot like revenge, which I wouldn't call self-defense or justice. But above all else, it's something that will not and should never be a simple answer, because that's when we'll start losing what makes us worth living for. And I think that's what makes it a drat good BSG story arc. Here's a thing they could have done. Get the Cylons on the horn: "Hey assholes. We have that virus that could kill you all. gently caress off forever, and don't come to Earth. Bye." And then there would be no weight of genocide on their souls. Kull the Conqueror fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 17, 2012 03:48
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DarkCrawler posted:DURING WWII. Like they are still actively executing or trying to execute all the Jews in the world. How is it not a simple answer? How come a bunch of genocidal evil assholes can't be killed in self-defense especially when it prevents the death of innocents in the future? I understand this. All I want you to admit is that it's a lesser of two evils situation; it can't be simple. It's like that conversation that Adama and Roslin have about whether or not posterity would view the event as genocide. It's pragmatism vs. spirituality, survival vs. morality. If you don't do it, you're a coward. If you do do it, you're a mass murderer. It's hard to spin any other way. Hell, Roslin barely made it to the end of the show having figured out that life takes more than survival. If she had actually pulled this virus thing off, she would have found herself in a dark place and never returned.
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Jun 17, 2012 18:28
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Earth is a dream. 
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Jul 4, 2012 16:55
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I loved everything going on with Daniel and Joseph in reality, hated most of the V-world stuff, and pretty much anything involving the teenagers. Lacy was the only character who was remotely interesting among the kids.
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Jul 4, 2012 18:08
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If Caprica could have been as consistently brilliant as the conclusion of its midseason finale with Bear McCreary's opera, I'd probably be more keen to defend it and complain about it being canceled. But it mostly wasn't, so I'm able to just say that New Jack City was one of the dumbest and most awful-looking story arcs I've ever seen in a TV show.
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Jul 4, 2012 20:15
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Zarek totally sent his goons to kill that dude. And Ellen helped him get to him.
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Jul 13, 2012 04:08
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God, The Plan was such a lovely epilogue. "Hey nerds! Remember all those unimportant questions you may have had about minute plot details in the first two seasons? Well, here's an hour and a half of equally unnecessary answers!"
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Jul 13, 2012 05:24
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Friendly Factory posted:I did like the underlying plot with Cavil though. That even he could be swayed into wanting peace with humanity. I thought they made the point that he was so one-dimensionally evil that he would rather stab a child to death than acknowledge feelings for others. Blaargh The Plan was so dumb.
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Jul 13, 2012 18:54
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Jeez, they cut a bunch out of the syndicated versions of Daybreak parts 2 & 3, which happen to be the versions they have on Netflix now. What the hell? Don't watch the series finale on Netflix.
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Jul 26, 2012 21:34
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Dude's in trouble from the get go by referring to the original series as "multifaceted."
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Aug 9, 2012 17:49
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STAC Goat posted:And I can only imagine my disdain for "history" if it was just "intelligent design". It's kind of hard to have objective historical fact on your origins when they're all on another planet you've never been to.
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Sep 7, 2012 17:27
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Turns out it was historically true (i.e. Battlestar is not real life). e: I basically mean that while the show is chock full of allegory, the parallels remain echoes. One huge reason it's segregated from our experiences is that very early on (definitively by "Hand of God," I'd say), the story is firmly identified as existing within a deterministic universe. We don't have that kind of certainty, so it's important to understand that assumption when analyzing the show's socio-political dynamics. Kull the Conqueror fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 20:48
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You guys are way off on Razor. It's really good precisely because it makes Cain the furthest thing from one-dimensionally evil. For one, she blames herself for the death of her sister in the First Cylon War by hesitating to save her; that's why she's so tough. And on top of that, instead of inexplicably unleashing the Torture Monster on that Six, her actions become far more interesting due to their intimate relationship. I think it vastly improves the Pegasus episodes from the second season.
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Sep 26, 2012 00:11
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General Battuta posted:I agree with you on both those points, but her actions also become far less interesting because they achieve nothing. She's no longer a ruthless pragmatist, she's a ruthless buffoon. I'd just put it that she was a ruthless human being.
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Sep 26, 2012 02:49
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General Battuta posted:I can see that, but I think it's a much less interesting conflict. A lot of what I value in BSG is its willingness to be multilateral or at least nuanced in its ideological debates. I would think less of the show if I were persuaded that the conflict were 'Cain is evil, and she's in charge!' rather than 'Cain's a rapist sociopath who represents both the moral danger and the utilitarian appeal of extreme measures'. Could you elaborate more on why you think Razor undercuts this? Are you saying that the relativist aspect of the drama is ruined by it? If so, how?
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Sep 26, 2012 04:56
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General Battuta posted:good stuff I like where you're coming from, and I think where I'd distinguish myself from your stance is that most of the ideological conflicts in BSG are compelling to me because each perspective has a process, be it ration, emotional, or spiritual in nature, rather than being somehow logical. This process is more important than the argument being sound in a socio-political context. Cain's torture of Gina happens because she is the product of a heavily intolerant society, and also because she loves the poo poo out of her. She's completely in the wrong about it, but one can understand why she's doing it. Does that make sense?
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Sep 26, 2012 15:52
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Their CIC was pretty boss. Those glass rotating doors. 
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Sep 27, 2012 19:30
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LooseChanj posted:Can you imagine if they'd canceled BSG after the first season's cliffhanger? Commander Bill Odama never returned home.
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Sep 28, 2012 02:52
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"Life has a melody, Gaius. A rhythm of notes that become your existence once played in harmony with God's plan." That's from season 1. The fact that their universe is deterministic is certainly cryptic and mysterious, and that's what makes it poetic, pastoral, and beautiful. There isn't an answer beyond that, nor should there be. It's not a grand whodunit story; it's a parable about faith and intolerance and humanity's role in a vast, empty, wondrous galaxy.
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Oct 12, 2012 21:07
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I feel like Lost was so much more about how characters dealt with not knowing than finding out what those things were. In other words, much like BSG, it's very much about faith. Some characters embraced what they could not know and said "There is purpose here. Let's roll with it," and others said "No, we have free will. There is no such thing as fate. This is nonsense." And then the viewers wound up being on either side of it as well, which is kind of amazing.
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Oct 12, 2012 21:24
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I watched "Someone to Watch over Me" with a newbie, and of course, it remains a favorite. I just had to capture this shot, and though it looks better in motion, it's still so delectable. The light accentuating the contour of the profile, the smoke, the visual repetition between the two characters. I love BSG's cinematography so much.
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Oct 17, 2012 17:14
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Well, if Bear McCreary did the music you can sure as hell bet that I'll watch the whole thing on that basis alone.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:59
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God, that's dumber than Adama battling a Centurion while skydiving, and that was pretty much the dumbest thing to ever happen in BSG.
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Nov 8, 2012 02:23
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You guys are confusing religion, which is a human construct, with determinism as a narrative tone, which is what BSG built itself upon. Lots of the religious sacraments in the show, like Baltar's cult, the Geminese being hyper-pro-life, and Sagitarrons being anti-medicine, were detrimental to the fleet's social conditions. Everything being discussed thematically about spirituality and a universe being a designed system were entirely outside of those things. Starbuck's nature, for example, has nothing to do with religion.
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Nov 13, 2012 20:23
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DrNutt posted:It was ambiguous because we were only getting Baltar's perspective. Regardless of what the Cylon in his head was telling him, it was a cylon only he could see. I never actually thought he had a cylon chip in his brain, but I still didn't trust everything Head Six said. You're making another assumption that by being an instrument of a greater force, head Six and head Baltar were somehow equally as infallible as whatever it is they served. I think they're very much characters with flaws; they're just as much in love with the people whose heads they inhabit as the Baltar and Six love them. They are not God. They simply don't adhere to the same idea of mortality that humans do.
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Nov 13, 2012 20:33
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Renzian posted:Also, Kirby, Coker's friend? Viper jock 'Narcho'. I'm going to go ahead and assume it's Narcho's dad. His freakishly identical dad.
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Nov 17, 2012 20:12
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Chairman Capone posted:I think Brother Cavil really benefits from it, if (like me) you're a fan of him. At the very least there's a lot of good lines from him. I can't disagree more. It's bad enough that he's already the most one-dimensional character on the show, and here they deem it necessary to show that he'd rather stab a child than experience empathy. The reason I like the character is because Stockwell plays it so perfectly tongue-in-cheek, and while it was kind of necessary to have a heel like him in the show, it runs contrary to a lot of the story's themes.
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Nov 18, 2012 01:54
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Captain Splendid posted:I think the series started going downhill where you started seeing more of the Cylon perspective, Downloaded being a good example. They just stopped being menacing. Downloaded was when they took the show to the next level. They had already started to deconstruct the Other through the Cylons through instances like Gina on the Pegasus and Boomer wishing to reject her identity, but here, as the walls of perception are symbolically and literally crashing down around them, Boomer changes the game by positing that "maybe the slaughter of mankind was a mistake." And in an instant, the show shifts gears and makes one of its many salient points on consciousness and free will. Blazing Ownager posted:EDIT: Am I the only one that hated who the Final Five turned out to be? I honestly thought it retroactively damaged at least two of their characters badly. I think it was supposed to be shocking taking some of the last people you'd expect, but it cheapened the hell out of some great stuff previously. You don't seriously mean Saul, do you? That revelation completes the character's significance.
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Nov 18, 2012 17:12
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DarkCrawler posted:It's revealed that the Other is just a loving dick. Or, more accurately, the Other is just as much of a loving dick as we are. Or maybe you disagree.
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Nov 18, 2012 17:47
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So your criticism is that hyper-advanced Cylons with technology entirely foreign to human civilization messing with military records is too implausible?
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Nov 19, 2012 04:29
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I think my favorite part of Caprica was the revelation that Virtual Zoe had a Head Zoe. But it didn't really get enough attention before the show was canned.
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Nov 21, 2012 08:23
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