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Dr.Spaceman posted:I'm initially on the side of the "haters" or "mildly dislike the seemingly spoiled characters and transfer our hatred of injustice/nepotism in the world onto them" crowd. I have trouble relating to the relatively struggle free lives of the main characters, and consequently have little sympathy for their struggles. I'm waiting until the third episode to make a final judgment about the show. Lot of words to say 'bootstraps'. quote:But I think there is a popular myth about internships that says if you get an internship and do exactly what your bosses say and get a gold star you will get a job afterwards. And who do you think perpetuates this myth? Think hard; could it be the newly minted exploits or the group that is getting free work? Enderzero fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2012 around 20:55 |
| # ? Apr 22, 2012 20:53 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 13:28 |
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Dr.Spaceman posted:I'm initially on the side of the "haters" or "mildly dislike the seemingly spoiled characters and transfer our hatred of injustice/nepotism in the world onto them" crowd. I have trouble relating to the relatively struggle free lives of the main characters, and consequently have little sympathy for their struggles. I'm waiting until the third episode to make a final judgment about the show. And then her boss tells her that he gets hundreds of resumes a day. So many that he mostly just trashes them. She was lucky to get in there to pad out her resume, but as soon as she asked for actual compensation, they chucked her out. That seems to be a pretty good satirical take on the economic position of many new grads right now: hope your resume stands out amidst hundreds of others, and be grateful for whatever you get (even if it's not very much) because you're supremely replaceable. It speaks to the whole "overeducated/underexperienced" thing because I don't see how someone can spend two years doing a job and still be no more valuable to the company than a fresh grad. The point isn't that she was lazy and failed to capitalize on her experience; I think the point is that everyone applying for the job is already overqualified so there's no reason for the company not to exploit the situation. However, part of me finds it hard to care about her internship thing because I'm guessing 90% of people don't have the financial support to spend two years doing unpaid work. Her boss was happy to exploit her, and she was happy to play at having a career, and as soon as her parents closed their wallets she crashed head-first into reality.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 21:48 |
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I'm wondering what Hannah could have done to wowie zowie impress a boss that was, by my interpretation of the scene, lying his rear end off to her the whole two years. To be fair, though, it's not clear exactly what her job was.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 01:14 |
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Christmas Jones posted:I'm wondering what Hannah could have done to wowie zowie impress a boss that was, by my interpretation of the scene, lying his rear end off to her the whole two years. To be fair, though, it's not clear exactly what her job was.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 01:21 |
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I agree with your thoughts SpaceMost. I only disagree with your statement about that scene being partially about the "over educated/under experienced" issue. I saw it as another scene showing how Lena hadn't achieved anything in 2 years and how it contrasted with her life plan. I thought the Asian girl who knew Photoshop was mentioned to contrast her position with Lena's. Lena is replaceable because she does not have skills like Photoshop, she is just another person with a degree desperate for a job in a creative field. I was trying to say that Lena could have "bootstraped" herself into an irreplaceable situation as EnderZero put it. How Lena could do it in her vague publishing job is open to speculation, but as SpaceMost said Photoshop and skills like it are pretty easy to learn. I think that if the scene would have satirized the "over educated/under experienced" had featured a freshly minted liberal arts college grad who had shown up at the office to ask for an internship, and as Lena quits the boss calls in the new kid to replace her immediately, right in front of her. Adding in an obvious (maybe too obvious) reminder that the new person is just like Lena, and then tying that into the growing up motif. Sidenote, designing book covers is serious business for professional artists, it's an incredible subjective critical work. SpaceMost said it's clear how Lena got "hosed over pretty hard". I can only see how Lena's character hosed herself over by not striving to change her internship into a paying job earlier, or seeking other work. This makes the firing scene painful for me, but occupying that middle ground between sweet funny and painfully funny that isn't either. Enderzero you asked me who I thought perpetuated the myth about internships. I garner from your questions and tone that you think I am one of those people who attribute success exclusivly to myths about hardwork and suffering. I don't fall into that category, and I could discuss how I think that those myths are bullshit but that would start to embrace the derail. Enderzero, what do you think about the complaint I made about my lack of ability to sympathize with Lena's character because of my perceived lack of any work ethic or actualized desire for self improvement?
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 01:29 |
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Dr.Spaceman posted:She seems to believe that because she showed up for two years she deserves a paying job. That is how it is supposed to work, though. That's the American dream. You work hard, play by the rules, and get rewarded.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 01:47 |
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Goons hating a show called girls color me bemused. Hannah's been thrown into the broken american dream of today from the next great american novel fantasy created and reaffirmed by her parents/professors/douchey friends. She doesn't have any of those bootstraps real american values because she hasn't had to acquire them. Its understandable that she might have difficulty adapting because she's in a shell shock stage between total disillusionment and childish stubbornness. She has a great opportunity for growth, and I'm excited to watch her learn and struggle. That being said the whining and moping casts a gray outlook. I'd drink tea with her any day.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 01:56 |
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Christmas Jones posted:That is how it is supposed to work, though. That's the American dream. You work hard, play by the rules, and get rewarded. Excellent sarcastic comment. I hope. It makes me wonder if there are any tv shows that highlight the changes the greatly (perhaps inflated) increased number of college graduates have changed how young people start professions. Maybe it will be Girls.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 02:00 |
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Dr.Spaceman posted:Excellent sarcastic comment. I hope. It makes me wonder if there are any tv shows that highlight the changes the greatly (perhaps inflated) increased number of college graduates have changed how young people start professions. Maybe it will be Girls. Well, I'm being sarcastic in the sense that I know the world doesn't work like that, but I'm not sarcastic in the sense that that's what I was raised to believe. So was Hannah, from what I gathered. I could be wrong that the show is going to be about how the millenials will deal with this disconnect, but that's the direction the pilot was pointing. I hope it will.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 02:05 |
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I don't quite know what to make of this show but that guy is creepy as gently caress.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 02:35 |
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What in the loving Christ just happened
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 02:41 |
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I like this show and the walls of words you're all dumping about poo poo makes you sound like loving morons.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 02:51 |
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this episode did a great job of humanizing them even more, even if I think the main character is an irredeemable idiot. Joking about date surprise sex? on a job interview? Saying that you want aids? David Mamet's daughter and Brian Williams' daughter are pretty chill.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:00 |
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These people are deplorable and uninteresting but for some reason I think I'm going to keep watching anyway. Maybe the accumulation of bile I get from it is keeping my humours in check?
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:03 |
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They did a good 7 mins of ABORTION JOKES! Come on people.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:05 |
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The Collector posted:this episode did a great job of humanizing them even more, even if I think the main character is an irredeemable idiot. Joking about date surprise sex? on a job interview? Got a belly laugh from that one. I kept wondering how she was going to drop the ball, but I never expected her to jokingly infer that the guy was a date rapist. Holy poo poo.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:06 |
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This is a great show. As someone that age who is around a lot of people like these girls, they have it loving nailed.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:06 |
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DivisionPost posted:Got a belly laugh from that one. I kept wondering how she was going to drop the ball, but I never expected her to jokingly infer that the guy was a date rapist. Holy poo poo. I loved how she thought that explaining the joke in detail would help her out of the whole thing somehow.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:07 |
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Inspector_71 posted:I loved how she thought that explaining the joke in detail would help her out of the whole thing somehow. I loved that he wasn't so much offended by being called a date rapist, but by the surprise sex joke in general. I mean, it's not that he had no right to be offended -- one night I got offended after I heard a Kardashian tell a surprise sex joke on Conan -- but there's a level of irony at play that I can appreciate. (God I hope this doesn't touch something off.)
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:12 |
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He was probably in shock to be honest
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:48 |
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I refuse to believe that there are men out there who are so casual and lie about using condoms. Also I just watched Tiny Furniture earlier and Lena Dunham managed to write the most revolting character of my generation. I used to watch Skins and nobody on that show was every this dumb. Strangely, I like this show.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 04:13 |
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The overall show was better this week but Dunham and specifically her dialog are the worst part.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 05:06 |
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I thought David Mamet's daughter was by far the weakest character, since she strikes me as too extreme an exaggeration to register as in any way honest. That criticism aside, I found myself not quite so repulsed by the characters in this episode and I'll stick around for at least a week. People who have seen the three episodes say that you grow into the show, and I could feel myself pushing in that direction. The job interview was pretty drat funny and Lena Dunham's character's propensity to say whatever popped into her head struck me as being more funny and less repulsive this time around. But holy god, how hideously awkward and awful must it have been to film that sex scene?
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 05:24 |
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This episode was much better than the first and had actual comedic jokes. I will watch it again, even on purpose.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 07:22 |
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I like watching the relationship between Hannah and Adam. I know in my 20s I sometimes acted like he does and other times I was on the more insecure part of the spectrum like Hannah is. Sex is ridiculous and awesome, especially at that age. Best line of the episode was from the doctor giving her the STD test when she just looked at her and said something alone the lines of "I'm so glad I'm not 24 anymore".
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 09:42 |
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TedKoppel posted:I thought David Mamet's daughter was by far the weakest character, since she strikes me as too extreme an exaggeration to register as in any way honest. That criticism aside, I found myself not quite so repulsed by the characters in this episode and I'll stick around for at least a week. People who have seen the three episodes say that you grow into the show, and I could feel myself pushing in that direction. The job interview was pretty drat funny and Lena Dunham's character's propensity to say whatever popped into her head struck me as being more funny and less repulsive this time around. Honestly I think that all the characters, except maybe Hannah, still feel more like caricatures than real characters. Ok it's only been 44 minutes so far, maybe it gets better, but it'll be interesting to see if they manage to open them up some more.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 11:38 |
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I really liked the pilot but goddamn if that episode wasn't the best thing I've watched in a while.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 13:05 |
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Adam is a guy who clearly has watched too much porno and thinks every time he has sex it has to be exactly like the porn he's watched. I'm just baffled how anyone could be attracted to someone like that, it's not even good sex! Better episode than the first one, I think mostly because Hannah didn't seem so whiny this time around. Although that date-surprise sex "joke" was awful, and I can't believe she's that dumb to say something like that in an interview.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 13:14 |
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No.1 Special posted:I don't quite know what to make of this show but that guy is creepy as gently caress. He makes my skin crawl, but it's pretty funny at the same time. I don't really know how to feel about this show yet but it's got me hooked in a perverse way just to see how badly Hannah will gently caress up. (surprise sex joke at the interview nearly had me in tears)
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 13:22 |
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TedKoppel posted:I thought David Mamet's daughter was by far the weakest character, since she strikes me as too extreme an exaggeration to register as in any way honest. Same here. Between her stupid Sex and the City references last week, the fact that she has a dream board! or whatever you call it that idiots like Oprah go on about, and seeing her with that little dating advice book she just carries with her everywhere, and taking every word it said as 100% truth? Seriously? Though Jessa isn't much better. They're trying to hard to make her the "cool, but detached, girl who just lives for the moment, man, and you can't tie her down, she's too cool and in the moment." She's too cool to "settle down," she's too cool for texting (oh, and has her own too cool word for it,) and is even too cool to go to her own drat abortion. Those two honestly just come off as caricatures.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 13:51 |
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Another funny episode, coming from a place that's very different than my own. That sex scene at the beginning...brutal. And believable. EDIT: I think Mamet's daughter is believable as well. I've known girls like her, and been inundated by their self help bullshit. EDIT 2: "When he pulls out, it's loving mayhem. I've diagrammed it." Shageletic fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2012 around 14:21 |
| # ? Apr 23, 2012 14:13 |
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Mamet's daughter is realistic in the sense that most virginal girls at that age pretty much have the same heightened expectation of what sex is. Plus, she has to exist in that way because her slightly over-the-top nature is the perfect foil to Marnie's relationship and accentuates the total desperation of Hannah.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 14:39 |
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Was anyone else completely turned off by the effusive critical praise for this show? I honestly will never go to the trouble of watching it (no TV) but Allen Sepinwall especially gave me the impression that this show is incredibly precious and pretentious. This is probably not fair at all to the show, it's just a comment on the way the hype machine works. And for me it worked to make me dislike the show where I previously knew nothing about it and would probably have been open to watching it. Anyone else have this experience?
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 14:55 |
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I came here to complain about a TV show I have no intention of even watching.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:29 |
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Honestly to me this show seems okay, neither terrible nor amazing. But by far the most interesting thing is the sheer amount of loathing it has caused in goons. After one episode goons had written more words about this show than the writers.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:46 |
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Dr Mantis Toboggan posted:Honestly to me this show seems okay, neither terrible nor amazing. But by far the most interesting thing is the sheer amount of loathing it has caused in goons. After one episode goons had written more words about this show than the writers. To be fair, it's a show about women pretty much entirely put together by women so for there to be goon rage to this level doesn't really surprise me. I was also familiar with mumblecore before knowing this show was even a thing, so that set my expectations in terms of content and such. I'm going to guess the "involvement" of Apatow created some unrealistic expectations.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:52 |
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Dr Mantis Toboggan posted:Honestly to me this show seems okay, neither terrible nor amazing. But by far the most interesting thing is the sheer amount of loathing it has caused in goons. After one episode goons had written more words about this show than the writers. I not sure if we're reading the same thread you're reading because it seems to me like most people are just pointing out that it is a very uneven show. Personally I enjoy watching this show so far because when they get something right(like the conversation with the boss about the internship, the train wreck of a job interview, and the mutual selfishness of Hannah and her parents) they really knock it out of the park. However, there are also a lot of places where they fall pretty flat like having the only minority character in a show based in new york be a drunk homeless person making leering sexual advances or anything involving the british girl. edit: I mean if the thread were full of people like that guy who just posted to bash it without watching it it'd be one thing, but so far I just see mixed reviews which is par for the course for a show that you yourself have said is just average. The Collector fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2012 around 15:59 |
| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:56 |
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I dunno, I think the show is pretty good. It's certainly no Louie, but the people who compared the two are pretty crazy, because they're not trying to be the same show (there's nothing out there trying to be Louie, which is probably very good, because I don't think anything else could). Really, Sex and the City is the most apt comparison, where it's essentially that show, but in a different borough, with younger characters. Hence the critical love and the goon hate.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 16:19 |
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sportsgenius86 posted:To be fair, it's a show about women pretty much entirely put together by women so for there to be goon rage to this level doesn't really surprise me. Can we not make this about being victimized by the Goon patriarchy? It was an over-hyped show with a lackluster pilot. There's not much more to it than that.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 16:31 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 13:28 |
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I wish I could overcome my male privilege and recognize this show as the flawless masterpiece that it is.Arglebargle III posted:Was anyone else completely turned off by the effusive critical praise for this show? I honestly will never go to the trouble of watching it (no TV) but Allen Sepinwall especially gave me the impression that this show is incredibly precious and pretentious. This is probably not fair at all to the show, it's just a comment on the way the hype machine works. And for me it worked to make me dislike the show where I previously knew nothing about it and would probably have been open to watching it. Mostly I'm worried it will be like Entourage or an anti-Sex and the City: not glamorous and sexy, but still a low-stakes serial drama. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just don't find it very compelling right now.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 16:51 |
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