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haveblue posted:And then we're back in the Harrison Bergeron future where any nonconformance with the lowest common denominator must be stamped out. I don't think that's a moral win. No because it's not about reducing everything to the lowest point on a continuum like Bergeron in some parody of fairness, it's about seeing there are two absolutely unrelatable states (bender/non-bender) that have no common ground and automatically create a divided society.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:23 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 16:44 |
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tsob posted:The problem with that is that bending isn't the cause of the war, it's just the foremost tool of war. Also, again, we have no idea whether non-benders have been appealing to the government for a long time and been systematically denied or if this is a new thing. Personally, I can't imagine a case where people were genuinely appealing for representation while Aang was alive and he was turning them down, so it's possible that this simmering resentment Amon is playing to is a recent development over the last 10/15 years since Aang died and others took over in his place while the city/population expanded etc. The reason the war started was the Fire Nation wanted to force their firebending culture onto the rest of the world, using firebending, lead by firebenders, and the first genocidal strike being performed under a comet that makes firebending its strongest. It was even stated that "fire is the best element" and that the rest of the world would see that. The entirety of Fire Nation culture was based solely around the superiority of firebending, and they wanted to force that culture onto other people. Was the war started because the Fire Nation wanted everyone to see how good Fire Flakes were?
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:23 |
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tsob posted:The problem with that is that bending isn't the cause of the war, it's just the foremost tool of war. Also, again, we have no idea whether non-benders have been appealing to the government for a long time and been systematically denied or if this is a new thing. Personally, I can't imagine a case where people were genuinely appealing for representation while Aang was alive and he was turning them down, so it's possible that this simmering resentment Amon is playing to is a recent development over the last 10/15 years since Aang died and others took over in his place while the city/population expanded etc. Well the lack of representation is something Aang set up, though it isn't a bender/non bender thing. That is a resident/non resident thing. The City Council is composed of representatives from the other nations. People in Republic City do not pick their leaders, and barring some as yet unrevealed mechanism, don't have a voice in the government. I'd expect part of the back story is that Amon is exploiting this to rally more power to himself by framing it as bender vs non bender rather than domestic vs foreign ("the Avatar and his bending friends set this up to exploit YOU!, argle bargle!").
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:25 |
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blurry! posted:Yeah, I'm not saying Amon isn't a criminal and what he did was a bad thing. He did kidnap some people and scare them. I don't however, agree that it is "mutilation". It's akin to someone being able to place their hand on your face and remove your faith in your religion, or remove your Masters degree of knowledge in neurobiology, or ability to play basketball. Sure you could charge the guy for kidnapping, but what else would you charge him with? He didn't physically change or harm them, he didn't lobotomize them, they can still think clearly and reason, they can still walk and run and use all their limbs. He didn't submit them to brainwashing, he simply placed a hand on their head. It's unprecedented what he did, there's nothing to charge him with for that specific deed. It'd be like charging someone in real life with literally removing part of someone's soul. We don't have laws against that because no one can really do that. You report someone to the police for "removing your faith", and they ask "what specifically did he do?" and you tell them he placed a hand on your face and suddenly you didn't believe in God anymore, what are they gonna charge him with? Terrorist acts? Assault and Battery I guess, if the touch was unwanted, but good luck getting that to stick. It's not like charging someone in real life with cutting off pieces of the soul because it is a world where the soul exists and has visible and concrete effects. There is no "convince the court there's such a thing as the spirit and that it enabled you to throw fireballs." It's still not unprecedented. It happened before. It was done quite visibly to end a war. Even if it wasn't: in the real world you can't chop someone's torso off and leave them alive. That's just silly, how would it even work? Assuming it did happen though, there's not a court in the world that would just thumb through the book and say, "arms, legs, eyes, sure, there's laws against that, but nothing about chopping off torsos. And no one died so it's not murder. We'll have to let him go." Because the laws don't work that way. Willful and permanent injury as a crime does not require a list of every possible permutation of injury.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:27 |
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Oneiros posted:You do realize that despite Harrison Bergeron being satire people here are advocating for the sort of society it depicts, right? Would it kill you guys to stop misrepresenting what people are saying? People are arguing that the motivation of the Equalists is valid, not that their methods are. It is really hard to have a discussion when people keep strawmanning each other's arguments.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:28 |
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Fried Chicken posted:Would it kill you guys to stop misrepresenting what people are saying? People are arguing that the motivation of the Equalists is valid, not that their methods are. It is really hard to have a discussion when people keep strawmanning each other's arguments. Just to be explicit about this: my support for Amons methods rests on the assumption that there cannot be reconcilable peace and equality between benders and non-benders. This point is not proven, but it is a possibility. If there can be equality between the two then he is acting in a morally wrong fashion.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:31 |
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Fried Chicken posted:You do realize that Harrison Bergeron is a satire of what people think socialism and the push for equality is, rather than an attempt at criticizing it, right?
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:31 |
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Fried Chicken posted:Would it kill you guys to stop misrepresenting what people are saying? People are arguing that the motivation of the Equalists is valid, not that their methods are. It is really hard to have a discussion when people keep strawmanning each other's arguments. Really, you got to take a step back whenever your argument hinges on "the ethics of magic",and is ignoring the allegorical context in which it's being used. I don't see whats so hard about this unless you really care weather goku is stronger than vegita.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:33 |
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tsob posted:The problem with that is that bending isn't the cause of the war, it's just the foremost tool of war. Also, again, we have no idea whether non-benders have been appealing to the government for a long time and been systematically denied or if this is a new thing. Personally, I can't imagine a case where people were genuinely appealing for representation while Aang was alive and he was turning them down, so it's possible that this simmering resentment Amon is playing to is a recent development over the last 10/15 years since Aang died and others took over in his place while the city/population expanded etc. This is still relevant, because without bending the events of the 100 years war would have been literally impossible. And given that said events included the near incineration of an entire continent well...perhaps that's a risk we'd be better off not taking any more. Especially since the cat is kind of out of the bag with regards to everyone knowing what Sozin's Comet does. When you live in a world where every 100 years benders could just fly off the loving handle and destroy the world as you know it, yeah I think I can understand where the Equalists are coming from. And that's not even getting into the damage they can do unenhanced.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:35 |
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blurry! posted:The reason the war started was the Fire Nation wanted to force their firebending culture onto the rest of the world, using firebending, lead by firebenders, and the first genocidal strike being performed under a comet that makes firebending its strongest. It was even stated that "fire is the best element" and that the rest of the world would see that. I guess we're probably going to disagree on this, but from my perspective at least the reason the war started was because Sozin wanted more power and thought he had the right to take over the world because he was strong. He used firebending because it was his primary tool and the army was made up of firebenders because every nation's armies are made up of benders, and did it when the comet came because that was when they was strongest. If the nations had been divided along different lines then he'd have used whatever his line was to justify it in place of firebending. If the four nations were divided in to swords, spears, axes and fists he'd have just used whichever one of those you want to assign to him as the justifaction and said it was strongest. Captain Oblivious posted:This is still relevant, because without bending the events of the 100 years war would have been literally impossible. And given that said events included the near incineration of an entire continent well...perhaps that's a risk we'd be better off not taking any more. Especially since the cat is kind of out of the bag with regards to everyone knowing what Sozin's Comet does. While this is true, the world also wouldn't be in the state they know it as without bending either. Power, transportation, construction etc. are all built upon what benders do and while it's a terrible tool in the wrong hands, their world would grind to a halt without it as well. It's like asking for all technology to be melted down and started over again because WWII was so terrible. Confine it to nukes only if you feel that analogy is bad. tsob fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2012 around 18:39 |
| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:35 |
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Killer robot posted:It's not like charging someone in real life with cutting off pieces of the soul because it is a world where the soul exists and has visible and concrete effects. There is no "convince the court there's such a thing as the spirit and that it enabled you to throw fireballs." I don't know, in that very silly mental image you've crafted, someone losing their torso and surviving would have a very demonstrable physical deformity. Removing bending is akin to carving out a chunk of someone's soul. Since no one's ever done before besides once in recorded history by the very definition of "this person is a special case", I don't think they're set up to deal with it. You couldn't punish Amon for something that is not a crime, just like if someone carved their name into the moon with a laser beam from their eyes. Maybe defacing public property? I guess? We don't exactly have laws to deal with defacing the moon with eyeball lasers. The only thing they could hit Amon for is kidnapping and wrongfully detaining people, I guess. It's not unprecedented that it's happened before, but Amon is not the Avatar. Which makes a difference in this world. It'd be like a non-Avatar firebender also earthbending. This setting is not equipped to deal with that.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:37 |
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blurry! posted:I don't know, in that very silly mental image you've crafted, someone losing their torso and surviving would have a very demonstrable physical deformity. Removing bending is akin to carving out a chunk of someone's soul. Since no one's ever done before besides once in recorded history by the very definition of "this person is a special case", I don't think they're set up to deal with it. You couldn't punish Amon for something that is not a crime, just like if someone carved their name into the moon with a laser beam from their eyes. Maybe defacing public property? I guess? We don't exactly have laws to deal with defacing the moon with eyeball lasers. The only thing they could hit Amon for is kidnapping and wrongfully detaining people, I guess. Also, you can't really arrest people for "this girl said that guy did a thing", and if you can "gently caress da police".
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:39 |
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Fried Chicken posted:You do realize that Harrison Bergeron is a satire of what people think socialism and the push for equality is, rather than an attempt at criticizing it, right? You're halfway there. Specifically, the "joke" of said satire is that the whole premise is a strawman: in the real world socialists and other people advocating equality are looking for increased equality of income, of services, of legal treatment, and that they're not looking to literally ban talents and accomplishment or actually cut down the strong for its own sake, because that would be ridiculous and against both the individual and society. We're watching a show where the villain actually is doing just that, forcing "equality" by literally removing abilities past the determined norm. So LoK is a story about a world where Harrison Bergeron is not a satire mocking ridiculous strawmen that people use, but a direct analogy to what someone is trying to do.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:41 |
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blurry! posted:Yeah, I'm not saying Amon isn't a criminal and what he did was a bad thing. He did kidnap some people and scare them. I don't however, agree that it is "mutilation". It's akin to someone being able to place their hand on your face and remove your faith in your religion, or remove your Masters degree of knowledge in neurobiology, or ability to play basketball. quote:Sure you could charge the guy for kidnapping, but what else would you charge him with? He didn't physically change or harm them, he didn't lobotomize them, they can still think clearly and reason, they can still walk and run and use all their limbs.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:42 |
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tsob posted:I guess we're probably going to disagree on this, but from my perspective at least the reason the war started was because Sozin wanted more power and thought he had the right to take over the world because he was strong. He used firebending because it was his primary tool and the army was made up of firebenders because every nation's armies are made up of benders, and did it when the comet came because that was when they was strongest. If the nations had been divided along different lines then he'd have used whatever his line was to justify it in place of firebending. If the four nations were divided in to swords, spears, axes and fists he'd have just used whichever one of those you want to assign to him as the justifaction and said it was strongest. This post is on the nose about the original series - there bending served a different story telling function than it does here. In the original series it was a criticism of imperialism, and bending was a stand in for force/ideology that motivates and allows someone to carry it out. Swap fire bending for another weapon and the story still works, with the conflict needing to be resolved by the Avatar. In Korra, bending is a stand in for a privilege marker. One group that has it has access to certain benefits that the other does not, and that has repercussions on society. This sets the stage for the conflict that needs to be resolved by the Avatar. Just as you could swap bending for weapons in the original series, here you can swap bending for which Sneetch has stars on their belly.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:42 |
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tsob posted:I guess we're probably going to disagree on this, but from my perspective at least the reason the war started was because Sozin wanted more power and thought he had the right to take over the world because he was strong. He used firebending because it was his primary tool and the army was made up of firebenders because every nation's armies are made up of benders, and did it when the comet came because that was when they was strongest. If the nations had been divided along different lines then he'd have used whatever his line was to justify it in place of firebending. If the four nations were divided in to swords, spears, axes and fists he'd have just used whichever one of those you want to assign to him as the justifaction and said it was strongest. The 100 year war was a crusade/holy war of the firebending nation against the other nations. It was an imperialist action to spread the hegemony of the Fire Nation. Sozin wanted the rest of the world to see how great the Fire Nation was. That was his entire idea. It started out idealistic and naive, and descended into "we'll kill everyone that resists the superiority of the Fire Nation". When they conquered the Earth Kingdom, the erected statues and banners and regalia declaring that the Fire Nation rules all.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:43 |
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Killer robot posted:You're halfway there. Specifically, the "joke" of said satire is that the whole premise is a strawman: in the real world socialists and other people advocating equality are looking for increased equality of income, of services, of legal treatment, and that they're not looking to literally ban talents and accomplishment or actually cut down the strong for its own sake, because that would be ridiculous and against both the individual and society. I get the difference, I just don't like seeing Vonnegut's works being misunderstood. Call it a bit of a knee jerk after seeing Orwell get the same treatment up in D&D
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:43 |
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tsob posted:While this is true, the world also wouldn't be in the state they know it as without bending either. Power, transportation, construction etc. are all built upon what benders do and while it's a terrible tool in the wrong hands, their world would grind to a halt without it as well. It's like asking for all technology to be melted down and started over again because WWII was so terrible. Confine it to nukes only if you feel that analogy is bad. Technology is not free of regulation by virtue of having potentially beneficial effects. Bending is no different. The fact that it can be used in a useful manner no more guarantees you the right to it than it guarantees you the right to a gun.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:52 |
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blurry! posted:The 100 year war was a crusade/holy war of the firebending nation against the other nations. It was an imperialist action to spread the hegemony of the Fire Nation. Sozin wanted the rest of the world to see how great the Fire Nation was. That was his entire idea. It started out idealistic and naive, and descended into "we'll kill everyone that resists the superiority of the Fire Nation". When they conquered the Earth Kingdom, the erected statues and banners and regalia declaring that the Fire Nation rules all. And if the Fire Nation had had no benders and were centred on how great mushrooms were he'd have wanted to spread the superiority of 'shrooms to the world. The Fire Nation may have been formed around bending, but there was still a culture built up around it that was more than just "we bend fire, we cool". They had dances, and music and traditions that were unique to them and if Sozin started out idealistic it was as much about those as it ever was about bending, because bending is simply a tool at the end of the day. It's use depends on the user. Sozin wanted to take over the world because he thought he deserved it and his culture was best. It didn't actually matter what his culture was, it was better regardless.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:53 |
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blurry! posted:I don't know, in that very silly mental image you've crafted, someone losing their torso and surviving would have a very demonstrable physical deformity. Removing bending is akin to carving out a chunk of someone's soul. Since no one's ever done before besides once in recorded history by the very definition of "this person is a special case", I don't think they're set up to deal with it. You couldn't punish Amon for something that is not a crime, just like if someone carved their name into the moon with a laser beam from their eyes. Maybe defacing public property? I guess? We don't exactly have laws to deal with defacing the moon with eyeball lasers. The only thing they could hit Amon for is kidnapping and wrongfully detaining people, I guess. You keep avoiding it. This is a world where spirits exist as a known and literal factor in the world. Where bending exists as a known and literal factor. Where even spiritbending exists as a known if unusual case. And a city where the Avatar has been told quite clearly she's not above the law besides. Where chi-blockers who can take bending away on a temporary level are a known thing. Where are you getting the idea that this is a world whose legal system would be forced to throw up its arms and say, "Spirits? Altering the soul? That's crazy talk, how can you imagine such a thing?" Hell, real world societies have often enough accepted the existence of the soul on a legal level, including attacks one way or the other about it. Removing someone's faith or ability to play basketball would fit right in with some of that. This just being covered under laws against mutilation doesn't stop making sense because it's spirit mutilation. Not in a world where this is a known and demonstrable part of human life. And again, kidnapping, battery, and assorted other charges can be easily laid in any case, as can arranging a conspiracy to commit said crimes.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 18:56 |
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I get the feeling the root cause for why people keep going round and round here is that we are talking past each other because we are looking at different things. Like "the blue curtains symbolize the deep depression of the main character" vs "the blue curtains mean the curtains are freaking blue"
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:01 |
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tsob posted:And if the Fire Nation had had no benders and were centred on how great mushrooms were he'd have wanted to spread the superiority of 'shrooms to the world. The Fire Nation may have been formed around bending, but their was still a culture built up around it that was more than just "we bend fire, we cool". They had dances, and music and traditions that were unique to them and if Sozin started out idealistic it was as much about those as it ever was about bending, because bending is simply a tool at the end of the day. It's use depends on the user. Yeah they sure did have some minor stuff compared to the fact the entire nation was built around bending fire. They were called the Fire Nation, man. Not the Kingdom of Zazu, which incidentally has some firebenders. Their monarchy was all firebenders, their military was all firebenders, they all dressed in the colors of fire. Their regalia all invoked images of flames. Their clergy were called "Fire Priests", and lo and behold, were all firebenders. Sozin wanted to share that with the world, and by share, I mean force upon with genocidal violence. I guess if you want to dismiss all the evidence before you that the 100 year war was an idealogical war based on the superiority of bending, not just over non-bending, but of a specific type of bending, that cost countless lives, an entire culture, and who knows how much in terms of money, then go ahead, but that just seems silly. The Fire Nation in TLA was Fire Wizard Nazi Germany. You won't win much support or agreement if you go around saying "well eugenics is a perfectly good and sound ideology, and Hitler and the Nazi party were just using it as an excuse." Nah, I think they sincerely believed in eugenics, just like the Fire Nation believed in Firebending Superiority.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:04 |
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Killer robot posted:You keep avoiding it. This is a world where spirits exist as a known and literal factor in the world. Where bending exists as a known and literal factor. Where even spiritbending exists as a known if unusual case. And a city where the Avatar has been told quite clearly she's not above the law besides. Where chi-blockers who can take bending away on a temporary level are a known thing. Where are you getting the idea that this is a world whose legal system would be forced to throw up its arms and say, "Spirits? Altering the soul? That's crazy talk, how can you imagine such a thing?" Hell, real world societies have often enough accepted the existence of the soul on a legal level, including attacks one way or the other about it. Removing someone's faith or ability to play basketball would fit right in with some of that. This just being covered under laws against mutilation doesn't stop making sense because it's spirit mutilation. Not in a world where this is a known and demonstrable part of human life. And again, kidnapping, battery, and assorted other charges can be easily laid in any case, as can arranging a conspiracy to commit said crimes. Because Korra, Tenzin, and the crowd are all flabbergasted at the very idea that a non-bender can alter someone's soul and remove their bending. That's where I'm getting the idea from. Multiple sources.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:06 |
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blurry! posted:Yeah, I'm not saying Amon isn't a criminal and what he did was a bad thing. He did kidnap some people and scare them. I don't however, agree that it is "mutilation". It's akin to someone being able to place their hand on your face and remove your faith in your religion, or remove your Masters degree of knowledge in neurobiology, or ability to play basketball. Sure you could charge the guy for kidnapping, but what else would you charge him with? He didn't physically change or harm them, he didn't lobotomize them, they can still think clearly and reason, they can still walk and run and use all their limbs. He didn't submit them to brainwashing, he simply placed a hand on their head. It's unprecedented what he did, there's nothing to charge him with for that specific deed. It'd be like charging someone in real life with literally removing part of someone's soul. We don't have laws against that because no one can really do that. You report someone to the police for "removing your faith", and they ask "what specifically did he do?" and you tell them he placed a hand on your face and suddenly you didn't believe in God anymore, what are they gonna charge him with? Terrorist acts? Assault and Battery I guess, if the touch was unwanted, but good luck getting that to stick. But LOK is not the real world where those things are impossible, it's a fictional universe where spiritbending is an actual tangible thing. Also, what if someone actually had the ability to just take someone's faith, knowledge, or talents, how would that not be mutilation? What if some internet atheist could walk up to a holy man who has dedicated his life to religion and just steal his faith? That would completely shatter that man's sense of identity and spirituality. What if someone could actually steal away artistic talent? Most artists, writers, musicians, dancers, etc. . . use their talents to express themselves; it's a crucial part of who they are. If someone took my artistic vision and ability to draw and paint, I don't know what I'd do - probably shoot myself. And what about that basketball ability? That and any other talent takes a life of dedication, love, and hard work. Why should anyone have the right to just take that away? Captain Oblivious posted:
But bending isn't a gun. It's an innate ability and a spiritual thing apparently. Even if it is a privilege that can be taken away, shouldn't that be handled in a court of law rather than by some random vigilante douchebag?
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:06 |
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blurry! posted:The Fire Nation in TLA was Fire Wizard Nazi Germany. You won't win much support or agreement if you go around saying "well eugenics is a perfectly good and sound ideology, and Hitler and the Nazi party were just using it as an excuse." Nah, I think they sincerely believed in eugenics, just like the Fire Nation believed in Firebending Superiority. I'm not sure what you think eugenics, or any analogy to it has to do with my argument or how I'm trying to prop something that is uniformly horrible, but okay. Regardless, like I said, we'll probably disagree on it. While the entire Fire Nation might as you say have been built on the back of fire bending you are of the opinion that Sozin was only doing it because he thought fire bending was better than everything else, full stop, nothing else matters. And apparently that the entire culture that had been built up around bending in their nation was irrelevant to this, and to Sozin himself. Only bending mattered, not the entire rest of their culture. I disagree. I think fire bending was just a tool and that he was power hungry, and just a bit of a megalomaniac and cultural superiority was an excuse, not a reason. You seem to be getting a little too heated about defending your position on this though, so I think I'm going to stop, because the last thing the thread needs is to descend in to name calling. tsob fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2012 around 19:14 |
| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:11 |
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i hate meatloaf posted:But bending isn't a gun. It's an innate ability and a spiritual thing apparently. Even if it is a privilege that can be taken away, shouldn't that be handled in a court of law rather than by some random vigilante douchebag? It shares all the dangers of a gun and then some, so it's spirituality is irrelevant. As for whether it should be handled by a court of law yes it probably should but in the current paradigm the court of law is assuredly to be under the control of benders who have no interest in curtailing their own power.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:16 |
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blurry! posted:Because Korra, Tenzin, and the crowd are all flabbergasted at the very idea that a non-bender can alter someone's soul and remove their bending. That's where I'm getting the idea from. Multiple sources. Sure, it's surprising to people. No one expected he could do this. And the leap to "there's no way existing laws against assault and wrongful injury can apply to spiritual injury in a world where the spirit is established as a known thing that can be injured in both the short and long term?"
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:19 |
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[This post originally contained a link to an image from an upcoming episode. I posted it in a moment of bad judgement. For the sake of those who wish to avoid spoilers, I've redacted it.]
lelandjs fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2012 around 20:45 |
| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:19 |
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Let me phrase my argument a different way. Framing it by the real world here: I walk up to someone and wave my hand in their face. By doing this, I can rewrite their personality, maybe to make them unable to find meat palatable anymore. I'm doing this because I don't agree with the meat industry. What law did I break? What would I be charged with? Nothing for this deed, since there's no law preventing me from rewriting peoples personalities with a simple exertion of will. If I was arrested for that, what would the prosecutor argue that I did, and where in the legal texts would he cite my action as unlawful? He can't because there's not a law against it. I admit that Amon kidnapped people and illegally detained them, but removing their bending is not something the government can charge him with, because what Amon did has never happened before.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:21 |
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^^^^^^ Why on earth would you even post something with a description like that in here?Captain Oblivious posted:It shares all the dangers of a gun and then some, so it's spirituality is irrelevant. As for whether it should be handled by a court of law yes it probably should but in the current paradigm the court of law is assuredly to be under the control of benders who have no interest in curtailing their own power. It's not like a gun in that it's an inextricable part of a person, and as such there is a far higher bar to pass for confiscating it than there is for property or anything granted by another. I don't know why nobody seems to be considering that what Amon does is a gross violation of the body and mind and as such is a whole different moral ball game from just redistributing privilege or deposing an unjust governmental system. haveblue fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2012 around 19:23 |
| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:21 |
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lelandjs posted:
Literally no way that is Aang. I'm going with dream, or spiritual channeling by Korra. Or maybe just another airbender previously taught by Aang? And who or whatever they are, why are they missing teeth? More important revelation there: Look at the background. Republic City is burning. Big time. Like "Great Chicago Fire" big time
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:25 |
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HUGE MAJOR SHOW RUINING SPOILER LINKED AHEAD!
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haveblue posted:^^^^^^ Why on earth would you even post something with a description like that in here?
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:27 |
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Or for another example what if I could magically take away someone sense of rhythm or ability to carry a tune buy simply waving my hand at them? What would the police arrest in charge me with?
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:29 |
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blurry! posted:Or for another example what if I could magically take away someone sense of rhythm or ability to carry a tune buy simply waving my hand at them? What would the police arrest in charge me with? Well that example doesn't really work, making everyone white would be giving them privilege, rather than taking privilege away. 
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:30 |
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blurry! posted:Let me phrase my argument a different way. Framing it by the real world here: Nah, you were closer to reasonable comparisons with your earlier analogies about removing someone's ability to play basketball. That's still a weak analogy since playing basketball by and large is a sort of edge skill, but assuming it's someone that was using basketball as a part of their livelihood? And where "play basketball" is a pretty concrete ability anyway. Oh, and where you could already just render someone unable to play basketball for hours by poking them in the right places. Oh, and where playing basketball has been a major way of how humans engage in industry since the dawn of civilization, justly or not. Anyway, what makes you think that existing law against violent injury would be more helpless against this than it would if you punched someone and quite unusually left them paralyzed? And knew you would do so when you threw the punch? Now, I can believe that the police isn't quick to leap on hunting down the Equalists, thus explaining a separate task force doing this raid, but if that's so I expect it to be solid "lack of clear evidence, procedures, warrants, etc" stuff like you otherwise talked about, not the courts throwing up their hands and saying "Well, there's no law against destroying all bending!"
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:33 |
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My biggest problem is that aside from gangsters, there's been no proof that benders explicitly work to oppress non-benders, they're planning to strip people of their power regardless of their station as a gangster or water-bending healer. About all there is is Amon saying "they said you guys look like dorks!", and this show isn't really lazy enough to just skip showing us that Amon has at least a partially legit claim.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:33 |
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Oh I can certainly understand Korra's doing what she's doing. But that doesn't change the fact that this raid is clearly out of line. We don't have enough context but my guess is that Amon goaded Korra/Tarlok into a raid so he can escalate his revolution. They have presumably illegal weapons in the facility (gas bombs).
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:37 |
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Fishylungs posted:My biggest problem is that aside from gangsters, there's been no proof that benders explicitly work to oppress non-benders, they're planning to strip people of their power regardless of their station as a gangster or water-bending healer. There doesn't have to be overt punishment for privilege and oppression to be in place. Only a very small minority of people actively harm gays, and those people are prosecuted for assault. Yet the fact remains that gays are disadvantaged due to the structure of society closing off important options to them.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:37 |
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blurry! posted:Let me phrase my argument a different way. Framing it by the real world here: Uh. You did watch the original series, right? This isn't some magic power popping out of nowhere that no one will believe. I bet every drat person on the planet knows that Aang took Ozai's bending. They certainly know of chi-blockers. I bet there's some law against prolonged chi-blocking of a unwilling bender.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:38 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 16:44 |
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lelandjs posted:
gently caress it was on my loving dashboard fuuuuuuuckkkk! Anyone following Plethora of Korra might want to avoid it for a week.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:43 |
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