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indigi posted:Wtf is going on here? She is ejecting Jinora and Ikki before they say anything damning in Mako's presence. They float down a distance away moments later. Also Tonraq is a rad name.
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| # ¿ Apr 10, 2012 01:27 |
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| # ¿ May 22, 2013 11:18 |
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Baron Bifford posted:Christ, she can bend three elements as a toddler? So much for "years of mastery". Yeah Korra is a prodigy in those three elements. Key word...THOSE three elements. The airbending thing? Not so much.
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| # ¿ Apr 10, 2012 14:50 |
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ComposerGuy posted:Years of mastery is still true, though. There's a difference between being able to produce a little bit of fire and actually mastering its use. As the series begins she has only just been granted the title of master in firebending, at the age of 17, which is pretty much on track. It's important to note that you're kind of not SUPPOSED to enter the avatar state. It's a defense mechanism. You can obtain control of it, as Guru indicated, but by design it's primarily a defense mechanism according to Roku. He could be wrong mind you.
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| # ¿ Apr 10, 2012 19:37 |
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ComposerGuy posted:I think Roku was just trying to explain it to a little kid. It's pretty clear in the final episode that Aang can more or less enter the Avatar state at will. His eyes flash briefly and then he just...does poo poo, like put out all those giant fires by moving the ocean. Honestly I never equated his tattoos glowing when he does typical (yet powerful) bending to be the Avatar State. It especially doesn't make sense to assume so because he did that several times before the concept of controlling the Avatar State (aka flip the gently caress out mode) was even suggested. What I'm saying here is there's a difference between glowing tattoos and glowing tattoos PLUS refracted voice. It's also possible Mike and Brian hadn't thought that far ahead in his first few Season 1 non-flip the gently caress out glow moments. Edit: Summed up, looking back on this issue I'm legit confused. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at Apr 10, 2012 around 21:54 |
| # ¿ Apr 10, 2012 21:50 |
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tsob posted:Probably because burning or crushing someone can't be used to turn them on their friends and family. Bloodbending could allow you to subdue someone without injury, but it also allows you to do insidious poo poo like make someone in to an inadvertant double agent who'll walk in to a room full of family and murder them. Something said person would witness and be unable to stop, but never able to forgive themself for either since it was their hand that did it, regardless of whether they had control or not. It's also a nightmare from a legal perspective. How do you catch a criminal that doesn't leave any evidence, who basically mind controls people into doing their bidding? The concept of mind control is basically the bane of a functioning society.
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| # ¿ Apr 11, 2012 01:40 |
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Baron Bifford posted:It's not mind control; the victim is fully aware of what is happening but is helpless to resist. What about what you described isn't mind control. In many forms of fantasy mind control entails exactly this.
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| # ¿ Apr 11, 2012 02:18 |
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Aphrodite posted:It's body control. Their mind is one thing you don't control. I repeat, mind control entails exactly this in many forms of fantasy. It's semantics. Mind control as per popular conception is functionally identical. Assuming control of everything the mind normally controls save for thoughts is, for all intents and purposes, mind control.
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| # ¿ Apr 11, 2012 14:44 |
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Aphrodite posted:Bloodbending is puppeteering, which is distinct even in bad fantasy (Like the show Heroes.) And you've yet to show me a meaningful difference. If it accomplishes the same thing save for one invisible, intangible difference... All of this is irrelevant to the original point as well, which is to say that it's a legal nightmare 
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| # ¿ Apr 11, 2012 15:01 |
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tsob posted:The most obvious difference has actually been pointed out before: with mind control the victim doesn't think anything is strange about their own actions and can't in any way alert others to them. Body control, or blood bending doesn't affect the mind or apparently the mouth, so Sokka was able to warn the gAang about what he was about to be made to do. The issue is that it's a bit of an assumption to say the fact that she didn take control of Sokka's mouth means she can't. Nevermind the fact that mind control can and does produce unnatural, stilted results all the time in fantasy. Again, it depends on the setting but mind control means a lot of things. Body Control and Mind Control are only different in an academic sense.
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| # ¿ Apr 11, 2012 16:14 |
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No1throwdown posted:We are going to have to assume things based more closely to available information, things like only the avatar CAN spirit bend until shown clearly otherwise. That's a bit unrelated don't you think? If we want to argue that, we can argue that. Just say so. But what makes you believe she can't prevent him from talking? That doesn't seem to logically follow. What I'm getting at here is you're not making an actual point. indigi posted:that invisible, intangible difference being whether the "mind" is controlled or not, which it isn't. In fact, there's no control of the body going on at all, the control is exerted over the water in a person's blood. It's the same as if a person wore earthen bracelets and anklets and an earthbender used those to move the person around. Nobody would call that mind control, because that's silly, yet here we are. I've already addressed this, it's only meaningfully different in an academic sense ("He sent that car into a cliff!" "Actually, he utilized the steering wheel and gas pedal to maneuver the car into a cliff"), and the difference has no bearing on the original point of referring to it as mind control. Mind control, body control, they both rob a person of agency in the most absolute sense and that's what really matters in the societal context. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at Apr 11, 2012 around 23:48 |
| # ¿ Apr 11, 2012 23:40 |
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Aphrodite posted:But you're the one who brought up the legal context. If both mind control (Say through telepathy) and bloodbending were real, you better believe there'd be a distinction between them legally. No, there wouldn't, because the entire point I was and am getting at is that both of them are incompatible with a functioning legal system if they proliferate to any serious degree. The entire point is that they are terrifyingly untraceable and almost impossible to prove one way or the other. ComposerGuy posted:Yep. They went so far as to outright say something to the effect of "People who want Katara and Zuko together have serious issues". Yeah they pretty much went out of their way to point and laugh at shippers in conventions.
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| # ¿ Apr 12, 2012 00:19 |
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indigi posted:it really does though, that's why we have language and words. You're literally arguing that grabbing the arms of someone weaker than you and using their hands to slap their face while chanting "quit hittin yourself! quit hittin yourself!" is a form of mind control and should be referred to as such... which is ridiculous, and you know it. Just because two things have the same outcome doesn't mean they are interchangeable, and just because you don't want to admit you're wrong doesn't mean you're right. You picked the wrong thing to quote because it's a simple fact that this distinction has no bearing on the actual point. You're still free to argue definitions, but the distinction is irrelevant to the point the phrase was attached to originally. See above. Now then, do you also object to any form of fantasy in which someone who is described to have been mind controlled describes the experience as having been trapped in their own mind, and implies the ability to think despite the total loss of control in every other fashion? If so I'm willing to concede the point that no small amount of mind control in fantasy is in reality body control. The distinction is rarely dwelt upon despite this. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at Apr 12, 2012 around 00:31 |
| # ¿ Apr 12, 2012 00:24 |
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Personally, I'd really like to see an animated feature about the first Avatar. I think that could be really cool, and it would allow for some absolutely crazy spiritual visuals. It could be like a creation myth, maybe. Who knows, we might not even need that. Since Korra's whole thing is "you suck at the spiritual bits" the first Avatar could come up during her learning about the importance of the spiritual aspect Here's hoping.
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| # ¿ Apr 12, 2012 00:31 |
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Quackenbush posted:I'm really happy that the Avatar State is something that Korra doesn't have access to. I think they realized that it was just a "get out of jail free" deus ex machina in season 1 and made it a lot more dangerous and uncontrolled in Season 2, then removed it entirely for almost all of Season 3. Things are a whole lot more real and dangerous when you can't just become a glowing god at the drop of a hat I think we're jumping the gun in saying Korra doesn't have access to the avatar state. Can she control it? Likely not. Can she still enter it as a defense mechanism? Probably. Just because she's spiritually unaware doesn't mean she can't enter it at all. Besides the "makes things too easy" thing doesn't really apply here. Aang was in the middle of a war. Korra is not. The Avatar State would more likely help the Equalists than harm them. Lotish posted:Roku was in his twenties when he found out that he was the Avatar. Was he born that and just didn't know until the monks found him, or is it like Buffy the Vampire Slayer where there are "potentials" who activate when the current one passes? I know it's more likely the first, but I find the second interesting because it also allows for Aang's death to have been more recent. It's a cycle of reincarnation. It's the former.
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| # ¿ Apr 12, 2012 01:43 |
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NextTime000 posted:I wonder how attrition will accumulate in this series; seeing how some of the "late game superpowers" are now common-fare, or at least, no-longer unique to <5 characters What beyond metal bending are you referring to?
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| # ¿ Apr 12, 2012 22:15 |
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Kazy posted:What if he bends more than just fire? What if...he can bend the element of surprise?
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| # ¿ Apr 15, 2012 03:11 |
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Kammat posted:Really way out the speculation that might be spoilery: The problem with this is that it's completely arbitrary (we don't even have the faintest indication that such a thing can or has ever happened) and doesn't really seem to have any bearing or logical connecting point to the themes of the show. It doesn't say anything. Avatar is pretty good about thematic consistency. It's not just a sequence of "wouldn't it be awesome" events, which is what the above feels like.
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| # ¿ Apr 15, 2012 03:40 |
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BrianWilly posted:This is from a while back but I really wanted to address this and reemphasize that what Amon does looks absolutely nothing like what Aang did. It is Completely identical save for the presence or lack of lasers. Personally, I'm not convinced the lasers even exist as anything other than a visual conceit necessary to inform the viewers of the television show what the gently caress is happening since neither Sokka nor Toph nor anyone ever went WOW HOW ABOUT ALL THOSE SKY SHATTERING LASER BEAMS. And ya know, a battle of wills that is completely intangible doesn't make for much of an epic climax. It is entirely possible I'm 100% wrong, but that is how I read the scene randombattle posted:I wouldn't piss off Korra the Avatar or Amon the councilman revolutionary nonbender bender leader who is a master of hokuto shinken and also related to every person from the first show. Bettin' on dis.
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| # ¿ Apr 16, 2012 03:01 |
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Tollymain posted:I don't know, those people from his group assaulting bender characters seems a bit on the illegal side to me. It's one of those skirting the edges of the rules thing. Even when they're not technically doing anything illegal, you bet your rear end there's a lot of people who'd probably want to "make you disappear" given the chance given an ideology like the Equalists. They're a threat to the status quo even when being peaceful. Edit: What intrigues me is how the other nations are doing in this industrial revolution. Is the Fire Nation a manufacturing power house in light of being the ones to pioneer a lot of industrial machinery in the first place? Is the Earth Kingdom keeping pace with modernization? Is the Water Tribe slipping in power and relevance given the unsuitability of their lands for modern trends? Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at Apr 16, 2012 around 14:15 |
| # ¿ Apr 16, 2012 14:09 |
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Triskelli posted:One thing that I'm curious about is how benders factor in to this new industrial environment. Do we have metalbenders/firebenders on assembly lines, helping to shape the components? Would a waterbender become an engineer, helping to keep boilers from overfilling/emptying and exploding? Is anyone able to bend gasoline? We've got a lot of world building left to do, and I'll enjoy every minute of it. This is another interesting avenue for the Equalists. Not only combatively disadvantaged, non-benders also have to compete with benders for the in demand jobs. And with crap like this well...they probably can't!
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| # ¿ Apr 16, 2012 14:48 |
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Elder Crain posted:This theory has popped up so many times. I posted it for the first one back on one of the first pages. The main reason it won't happen is because it makes the plot far too dependent on minute details in the prior series, and I think that runs counter to what they're doing with Korra. As we all blathered on about after the first two episodes aired, they seem to be pushing the idea of "this is a new series that is going to stand on its own two feet without relying on TLA!" really hard.
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| # ¿ Apr 16, 2012 23:30 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:I would think that over time, some of their children would be born as airbenders even if they're not related to Aang. After all, isn't there a spiritual component to it? There's a spiritual component, but not in that sense. Airbending can't just spontaneously remanifest.
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| # ¿ Apr 18, 2012 03:35 |
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Tollymain posted:On the other hand, man developed bending from nothing before in their history so... Right, and I ascribe to the theory that it's manufactured. But that's why I said it doesn't spontaneously remanifest. Which is a different thing.
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| # ¿ Apr 18, 2012 06:31 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:I thought that the different nations had different proportions of benders due to how spiritual the different populations where, or is that fanon I picked up somewhere? Spirituality appears to be a secondary consideration. Heredity is the first consideration.
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| # ¿ Apr 18, 2012 07:06 |
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Mako's eyebrows. Where have I see- My god
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| # ¿ Apr 18, 2012 22:02 |
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Dezinus posted:Until your realize her fists glow in the Avatar state, and she just starts slugging dudes. Turns out she doesn't need to learn airbending after all! This is by far the best idea posted in this thread.
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| # ¿ Apr 18, 2012 23:32 |
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I don't want to hear Dante Basco's old man voice. What makes you think they'd have Dante Basco voice the oldified version of the character? Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at Apr 20, 2012 around 22:59 |
| # ¿ Apr 20, 2012 22:43 |
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Because he's mentioned that he's going to be providing a voice for Korra. That's still far from an assured thing. I trust they have the sense to realize that is not a thing Dante Basco can pull off.
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| # ¿ Apr 20, 2012 23:11 |
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New episode is 11 AM tomorrow right? In the event I'm unable to make it, will it be on any (legal) websites?
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| # ¿ Apr 20, 2012 23:38 |
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I feel like it's important to point out that at one point benders were going to incinerate an entire continent on a lark.
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 16:21 |
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Waterbed posted:Someone posted a theory a pretty decent while ago in here that I like a lot more now that I've seen the episode and dug a tiny bit: It's a stupid theory because it's bad for Korra as a self contained series. It's a theory reliant on very arbitrary potential events resulting from minutia from the previous series. Why does reincarnation suddenly work that way? Because it's wicked aweshum?
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 18:11 |
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:No, because the show at least wants us to think that Amon can energybend. This theory of him being the quasi-Avatar, on the other hand, is loving stupid, especially because of what Shimrra Jamaane said. I think it's time for people to move on. We have no reason to believe Amon isn't an energy bender at present moment. The question is why or how, not if, until further evidence arises.
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 19:33 |
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Orange_Lazarus posted:I hope we eventually do get out of the city and the characters have to journey somewhere. Why would I ever want to leave 1920s era Republic City it is so pretty 
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 19:45 |
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Amon's certainly got the right idea about how to win the people's support. I mean how long has this Zolt rear end in a top hat been running his gang in plain sight like Al Capone? Then Amon comes along and takes him down a peg. Permanently. It's a really good and easy way to make people ask themselves, who's really protecting you? The cops or the Equalists? As for the Water Tribe, they're likely to face some serious cultural erosion as people depart for lands of opportunity and people come around to the fact that the Water Tribe lands are almost entirely useless to the modern world.
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 19:56 |
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FronzelNeekburm posted:I think this also illustrates why Amon is wrong. Sure, only firebenders can work at the plant. But as the scene with Mako shows, it's just tough, specialized work that benefits everyone. Non-benders may not be able to work there, but electricity should be providing many opportunities for everyone. No I'm pretty sure this proves the exact opposite  Perhaps you could be a little less hand wavey and vague? What are these opportunities for non-benders that a bender wouldn't do just as well or better? The entire core problem of Republic City is "the land of opportunity! If you're born with magic. If not, I guess we might have a cupboard for you to clean somewhere".
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| # ¿ Apr 21, 2012 20:07 |
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I'm astonished that anyone doesn't think the Equalists have legitimate grievances, if not necessarily legitimate methods. But then I remember people are generally bad at understanding privilege. Oh well! I have to say based on the "next episode preview" I would not be at all surprised if Korra actually DOES lose her bending, as a wake up call to discover the spiritual side of the Avatar and rebuild herself. As a character, she's designed for a harsh awakening of some sort. That may well be what leads to her "crying with Tenzin" scene.
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| # ¿ Apr 22, 2012 03:17 |
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Regy Rusty posted:I believe the point Fried Chicken is making is that there is nothing intrinsic about having the power of bending that puts benders on top of society. They are not automatically more capable or otherwise better than non-benders. They have a specific innate set of skills that they focus on training, but non-benders can also do amazing things through technology and other means as we've seen throughout the series. Being able to do elemental magic seems like it would be intrinsically superior to not being able to do elemental magic to me. Everything a non-bender can do, a bender can do and then some. There's nothing saying a bender can't also be a chi blocker, or use technology, etc etc. They're not on top of society just because, they're on top of society because without technology to even the odds they HAVE been straight up better than non-benders for centuries and centuries and centuries. It's why the cultures of entire nations revolve around a particular bending style.
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| # ¿ Apr 22, 2012 03:46 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:Lightning bending, and to a lesser extent metal bending seem rather common now. One wonders if Korra is going to end up picking them up. Yeah on this topic, I get the feeling lightning bending was never quite as hard to do as it was made out, but rather it was one of those typical history things where the upper class shroud the good poo poo in ritual and theology to keep it out of the hands of the teeming masses.
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| # ¿ Apr 22, 2012 03:53 |
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Axiem posted:I just want to say, it's pretty awesome that a "kid's show" can inspire this amount of dialogue about actual issues. This is a legit concern of mine also. They're doing really well so far but we've seen that Mike and Brian can struggle with pacing in the past. Season 3 was not the greatest for pacing. It was still good, but pacing was not a strength.
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| # ¿ Apr 22, 2012 03:59 |
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| # ¿ May 22, 2013 11:18 |
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Read posted:
Iroh doesn't need to be willfully lying to Zuko to be propagating a cultural ideology he's been immersed in since birth.
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| # ¿ Apr 22, 2012 04:05 |
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It was made pretty clear that it was very difficult and dangerous by Iroh when he was teaching Zuko how to do it. He had no reason to lie to Zuko about it, why would you not believe it? I don't see where you'd jump to the conclusion that it was the upper class trying to keep out the lower classes, seems much much more likely that the technique was just refined over time until it was easier to learn.
