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Klisejo posted:I actually thought it was just a WoW screenshot until I looked closer. I was certain it was WoW too. Oh man is this ever going to be terrible, which is a shame because I love TES.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 06:20 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 14:11 |
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IIRC Elder Scrolls: Arena was class based. So there.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 07:23 |
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Baron Porkface posted:IIRC Elder Scrolls: Arena was class based. So there. I'd be perfectly fine with classes if almost everything else didn't look like yet another WoW clone. At least it wont have 20 action bars full of skills to try to remember, I guess.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 07:30 |
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This game would have been the perfect game to go back to the old type MMO's that were basically huge explorable worlds with a ton of content and player-made fun(read: griefing) in them. The reason those games weren't as popular back in the day was because the Internet was young and because the bar to actually level and advance was loving nuts. Two things I think a studio in these moderns times could easily fix. This game has no CHIM and brings nothing new. Why should we play it? And yes, it does need to bring something new to the table, otherwise why should people bother making a community in your game? And they denies real-time combat is possible in MMOs. Newsflash, Korea has been doing it for over half a decade now.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 08:07 |
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No factions until you tie yourself to one would have been nice to see. It would also have made sense. e: Aw man. Imagine a world like Skyrim's but a lot larger, and factions working like that. No PvP until you pledge allegiance to make the people deserving of the carebear tag shut up. Raids for a reason to enemy places, PvP quests that finally get to make sense. Less work spent on unique content the average player will see a third of, more work doing what lasts longer, ensuring a world with something to do, one that you actually get to feel at home in. MrLonghair fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 11:09 |
| # ? May 7, 2012 09:48 |
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Pilsner posted:I also don't know where they got that description from, but I think non-instanced dungeons of some sort would be cool. Every dungeon could have an instanced and a non-instanced (public) version, where the public version could drop some different loot, have quests, rare spawns and such. It is a bit of a shame that only big outdoor zones are public, whereas dungeons are purely an instanced, walk from A to B thing today.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 17:18 |
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Mordaedil posted:And they denies real-time combat is possible in MMOs. Newsflash, Korea has been doing it for over half a decade now.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 18:00 |
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Played Skyrim for like 10 hours yesterday, now very pissed about this game.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 18:14 |
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Just realized I've never played an MMO with instanced dungeons. Sounds massively non-multiplayer and lame. Also, real-time combat or it's not Elder Scrolls 
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| # ? May 7, 2012 18:19 |
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Great Horny Toads! posted:Just realized I've never played an MMO with instanced dungeons. Sounds massively non-multiplayer and lame. Also, real-time combat or it's not Elder Scrolls Haven't played many since WoW? Everything has instances nowadays.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 19:22 |
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Space-Pope posted:poo poo, first-person real-time combat was done 9 years ago in Planetside. You were jackhammered through a wall 9 years ago too.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 20:26 |
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Space-Pope posted:poo poo, first-person real-time combat was done 9 years ago in Planetside. Let me direct you to this post from a few pages ago \/\/\/ MrLonghair posted:Ranged VS melee. No matter your ping in an MMORPG, you have most likely experienced a chaser (NPC or PC) hitting you with melee attacks from a visual distance of TooFreakingFar away. 2D fighters only recently picked up a good sense of timing, but it still feels clearly off compared to local versus. It's actually pretty obvious if you've ever played a real-time combat multiplayer game that focuses mostly on melee. Rakion (which is by no means a good game, but is a good example), for instance, has really tight, responsive controls when you play as a ranged character, but as soon as you start playing a melee character, hitting things becomes a bit of a crap shoot. Someone will be standing right in front of you, and you'll see your sword (or whatever) go right through 'em, but the hit won't register for half a second. And if they've moved within that half second, it probably won't register at all. When I played, half of the time you'd see melee players only using their AOE skills because they last for several seconds, so you had more wiggle room and a better chance to actually damage someone. The developer put in restrictions on the number of people playing each class in any given match, b/c everyone was just playing archers. Also: don't play Rakion. Also: jackhammering through walls was the absolute best way to defend cp's. OH THE GOOD OL' DAYS. 
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| # ? May 7, 2012 21:34 |
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It makes me sad to think of a developer world where groups like Aventurine, creators of Darkfall, can pull off things that a Zenimax offshoot believes to be impossible.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 23:17 |
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Age of Conan accomplished close enough to real time combat just by making all melee skills function as short range wide arc cones. It worked pretty well, even though the combo system was stupid as hell.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 23:24 |
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signalnoise posted:Age of Conan accomplished close enough to real time combat just by making all melee skills function as short range wide arc cones. It worked pretty well, even though the combo system was stupid as hell. Honestly the way that the TESO combat system is described in the article makes me think it'll be very, very similar to AoC. The fact that your first two hotbar slots are filled up with your weapon sounds like you'll be manually swinging rather than just clicking on an auto attack. E: But it's still not really real-time combat... they're just sorta faking it. Same thing with AoC. Also supposedly the combo system was vastly improved a few months after launch (I think the higher level the skill, the fewer combos required to execute it), but honestly once they started patching out all of the hilarious ways to grief I got bored and quit. \/\/ I'd guess it's just the art style, but I've always kinda wondered if the low polygon count has anything to do with it. kedo fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 23:35 |
| # ? May 7, 2012 23:28 |
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Maybe this has been mentioned before and I haven't noticed it yet, but - what's with MMO artists and loving hands & feet? Why are hands and feet always huge? It always reminds me of those little action figures designed for ages 3-6 that have enormous limbs so the kids can stand them upright easily and fit their accessories into their hands. In a lot of the screenshots, the characters have stupid cutesy proportions. I'm not sure that was ever an 'elder scrolls' aesthetic, but it's sure as poo poo a common MMO one. 
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| # ? May 7, 2012 23:33 |
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TERA does real time combat, and handles it extremely well. The ability to do this is there, they just don't want to do it and had to use a lame excuse to justify it. Makes sense to to cut corners wherever possible to pump out a cheap MMO for a quick cash grab, what puzzles me is that why that would take 5 years and a 250 person development team.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 23:38 |
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I'm not sure why any of those are serious challenges when most of them can be overcome with forgiving control timing, especially in PvE when you can deliberately give players visual cues to react to before their input registers. There have been quite a few multiplayer games lately with some sort of melee, including numerous shooters which have a low tolerance for lovely controls, there is no reason that what worked for them can't be ported to an MMO.
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| # ? May 7, 2012 23:39 |
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tekz posted:TERA does real time combat, and handles it extremely well. The ability to do this is there, they just don't want to do it and had to use a lame excuse to justify it. Makes sense to to cut corners wherever possible to pump out a cheap MMO for a quick cash grab, what puzzles me is that why that would take 5 years and a 250 person development team. I guess it depends on how you define "real time combat." My understanding was always "does the sword's hitbox pass through the NPC's hitbox" = real time combat, whereas "is the player close enough to and facing the NPC" != real time combat, but something very similar. I'd imagine TERA is doing the latter, but I haven't played it so someone please feel free to correct me. Maybe it's just semantics when you get right down to it... but there is a difference, or at least there seems to be to me. e: Also I know absolutely nothing about game development, so I am mostly talking out of my rear end here.  e2: That all being said I totally agree. People have at least gotten close to doing it in previous games. To me it seems like a lot of developers basically say, "Well we could try to solve that problem that's been plaguing the industry for more than a decade, and spend a lot of money doing so... or we could use this other style of combat that everyone's used to and will accept for cheap." kedo fucked around with this message at May 7, 2012 around 23:53 |
| # ? May 7, 2012 23:50 |
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Daggerfall was real time combat. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim = you're pressing buttons on an invisible action bar. (When it comes to Elder Scrolls games and realtime combat, the past three don't have it. Real time combat is a bad unfitting term. This game also started production in 2007.) MrLonghair fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 00:00 |
| # ? May 7, 2012 23:52 |
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krazysigmarite posted:Maybe this has been mentioned before and I haven't noticed it yet, but - what's with MMO artists and loving hands & feet? Why are hands and feet always huge? Short answer is because WoW did it. I remember hearing something about Blizzards creative process in developing the look of the characters. It has a lot to do with readability, both in the actions and seeing the animations from far away. I think they tried normal sized hands and for some reason it didnt look right. I think there are screenshots of the characters with normal sized hands out there..
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:02 |
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MrLonghair posted:Daggerfall was real time combat. I understand this line of thinking with Morrowind's combat system, where your skill affects your chance to hit, but what makes Oblivion and Skyrim's combat "invisible hot bar" style? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never looked at it that way.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:03 |
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Scuzzywuffit posted:I understand this line of thinking with Morrowind's combat system, where your skill affects your chance to hit, but what makes Oblivion and Skyrim's combat "invisible hot bar" style? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never looked at it that way. I think I'm too feverish to put it into words, but I'm thinking.. 1) What makes this ESO game not have real-time combat? It's not like a classic JRPG with turn-based combat where you select what to do and attack, and then it's the enemy turn to do the same. 2) Morrowind through Skyrim, instead of a toggled auto-attack you have a single strike with a directional option (strafe/back/forwards). To me that's an ability bound to mouse1 that's modified per weapon, per direction held upon use. I'm not swinging my weapon at the pace I like. 3) Xenoblade combat, if it was an MMO. If that would be real time combat, then why would ESO not be real time? 4) Is Guild Wars 1 real time because you can dodge projectiles? If Tera really works with a swing sword > sword hits box model, then that's freaking cool and I gotta get it just to roll a fuzzy little guy and try it out myself. And if that Guild Wars tidbit is what makes combat real-time, then finally, I understand what people are on about.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:20 |
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MrLonghair posted:If Tera really works with a swing sword > sword hits box model, then that's freaking cool and I gotta get it just to roll a fuzzy little guy and try it out myself. And if that Guild Wars tidbit is what makes combat real-time, then finally, I understand what people are on about. That's indeed how it works in Tera. If your weapon goes through the monster, it hits. If the monster's fist goes through you, it hits.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:32 |
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MrLonghair posted:Regarding your second point: That is exactly what I was expecting when I first heard of this game. Click mouse, swing sword. Maybe some directional modifiers and power attacks sprinkled here and there for taste. Something about all my attacks being chained to set buttons just feels off to me (And yes I do realize that there were numbered hotkeys in the ES games but I still had to aim and activate the attack manually).
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:40 |
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krazysigmarite posted:Maybe this has been mentioned before and I haven't noticed it yet, but - what's with MMO artists and loving hands & feet? Why are hands and feet always huge? This has been done since Megaman and probably earlier. It's just cartoony. Not every MMO does it, but I like it anyway. Exaggerated proportions feels more fantastic/heroic or something.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:45 |
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Killbot posted:That's indeed how it works in Tera. If your weapon goes through the monster, it hits. If the monster's fist goes through you, it hits. Well drat. That's pretty bad rear end. Ignore my previous post. Now I'm even more annoyed with TESO.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:45 |
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Yeah there is pretty much no "it's too much tech" excuse for any feature you'd normally expect in a TES game. Flying, class-free characters, ground targeted AOE projectiles, standard ranged projectiles, it's all been done.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 00:49 |
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kedo posted:Well drat. That's pretty bad rear end. Ignore my previous post. Posted what I had in mind, I actually see Tera in a greatly different light now, and I'm totally not looking for where I can find the cheapest possible copy of it. (Still won't make sense to call it real-time combat. Free-action? Free-form? Fukkenawesome?) MrLonghair fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 02:26 |
| # ? May 8, 2012 02:20 |
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This makes me sad. I have no desire to ever play another WoW/SWTOR style MMO ever again. TES is the perfect IP to use for a Ultima Online or even Asherons Call style sandbox and they are wasting it. Additionally the game is ugly. I know they make stuff in that cartoony style so that they can sell it to people with laptops they got for free with their cable modem contract, but it's so awful. I liked the look of KoTOR 1 and 2. SWTOR looks like rear end. I liked the look of Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, TES online looks like garbage. Skyrim just had like 700 million dollars in sales, why not actually use some elements of its game play or at the minimum its look and feel. I am not being tricked into buying this kind of mmo again. SWTOR was the last time. edit - someone earlier in the thread hinted they are working on this. To that person, please pass on to your bosses, that some guy on the internet thinks you all have made a horrible mistake. joebob fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 02:28 |
| # ? May 8, 2012 02:24 |
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- Elder Scrolls has been class-less since Daggerfall and is the better for it. Going back to a class based structure is a mistake, it's not what people play TES games for. - Bethesda/Zenimax has no competent experience even making multiplayer games, much less an MMO. - TES games have always been about the lone hero and his epic journey, not Legolass and his twenty friends gangbang a thirty foot tall troll. - TES history is already there - faction based PVP bullshit where you can become the Emperor is retcon at its worst, unless they're actually going to go so far back that they're outside of any established timeline, in which case it ceases to be an Elder Scrolls game and just becomes some game built on a familiar map. - Mixed PVP/PVE MMOs are universally terrible due to the impossibility of balancing the two spheres of gameplay unless you almost entirely ignore one side or the other. - This has every indication of being Yet Another Theme Park MMO. All reasons my interest gauge in this game went from "gently caress YEAH" to zero in less than thirty minutes of reading. This is one IP that is not even vaguely suitable for the theme park MMO format to begin with, and everything released so far reeks of Zenimax making a money grab. I want so very badly for game development companies to realize that diversification in an MMO is not a good route to take. Specialization is how you get a hardcore fanbase and retain it, and they will help you make your game excellent. Crap like what this is shaping up to be is how you end up with mediocrity shitfest.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 02:38 |
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20min interview with the game's creative director that was put up around 3:00 PM (EDT??) today. Hasn't been discussed yet. This might be pretty good or bad depending, I'm only 4 minutes in. He says interactivity is a huge deal and a hallmark of TES and they are trying to work that into the world. But that is the only thing he says about it, and that they're not ready to talk about it yet. Uh-oh?? e: No real words about gameplay at all! The world, mostly. Daedric Prince quests are cool and this game definitely has those. ARACHNOTRON fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 03:48 |
| # ? May 8, 2012 03:39 |
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ARACHNOTRON posted:20min interview with the game's creative director that was put up around 3:00 PM (EDT??) today. Hasn't been discussed yet. Good relevant questions, here's hoping there'll eventually be satisfying answers.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 04:04 |
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joebob posted:TES is the perfect IP to use for a Ultima Online or even Asherons Call style sandbox and they are wasting it. It's true. At least one of those games also had no class system, instanced dungeons, or zones to load. gently caress yeah. Technically, Daggerfall didn't have classes, either. You were always able to make your own custom class, then re-roll it when an ancient lich pops in the hallways of the starter dungeon.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 04:56 |
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This is unfortunate. It sounds like they started development with a WOW is popular lets do WOW mindset in 2007 when that was common and have realized too late in development that they would be sinking their ship if people caught on. Too bad, the Elder Scrolls has mountains of great lore to pull from, but this just doesn't sound fun, interesting or engaging.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 07:44 |
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Spaceman Future! posted:This is unfortunate. It sounds like they started development with a WOW is popular lets do WOW mindset in 2007 when that was common and have realized too late in development that they would be sinking their ship if people caught on. Too bad, the Elder Scrolls has mountains of great lore to pull from, but this just doesn't sound fun, interesting or engaging. It is a shame for all parties involved, also probably why it has been so hushed up until now and now they have no choice but to go with it. Game Development is such a sad place to be these days.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 07:45 |
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Game dwvelopment costs too much to be innovative. Especially MMO development. I would love to see a small company make a 2D (cheap) MMO with a load of innovative and unusual features.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 07:54 |
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Game dwvelopment costs too much to be innovative. Especially MMO development. You'd think it'd be more costly to not be inovative. You can fool all the people some of time, or you can fool some of the people all the time. MMO WoW clones try to fool all of the people all of the time. It just doesn't pay off the amount they invest.
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| # ? May 8, 2012 08:45 |
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Hungry Gerbil posted:
Ever heard of Maple Story? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapleStory
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| # ? May 8, 2012 12:47 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 14:11 |
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Yeah. I know it. There is also Dofus from France. There are a few more examples. But still the standard MO is: 1) go 3D 2) copy WoW/Everquest 3) add ONE unique feature 4) publish your unimaginative pile of crap And that sucks, because 1 makes 2 necessary, even though they know people are fed up with the standard formula. That's why they always do 3 as a weak concession to that fact. Edit: There is also Realm of the Mad God http://www.realmofthemadgod.com/ Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 13:09 |
| # ? May 8, 2012 13:01 |
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