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I can't remember if it was posted anywhere earlier in the thread--has anybody read Lauren Oliver? Either Before I Fall or the start of the Delirium trilogy? I was pleasantly surprised by Before I Fall--I'd heard good things but I'm pretty tired of supernatural elements cropping up in otherwise realistic books, so I wasn't sure I could get past the whole "main character is dead" plot point. It also managed to be not too derivative of Groundhog Day, which is fairly amazing given the premise. Is Delirium any good or should I skip it? Edited to add: On the off chance that anybody here is a fan of the Sloppy Firsts/Jessica Darling books, apparently Megan McCafferty is writing new middle-grade ones with Jessica as a middle schooler. Any opinions? I really, really loved the first two books in the series, but her shtick started to wear thin by book 3, and book 5 was so awful--and so untrue to the characters--that I have no idea how it got published even with the rabid fan base. It was just a blatant money grab or the act of a desperate author who knew she was running out of ideas, I'm not sure which--but either way she didn't want to put in the work. There are parts formatted like a terrible movie script, complete with [pause]s and godawful dialogue, and an entire chapter consisting of haikus. If you ever followed McCafferty's blog, it was pretty clear that Jessica Darling was totally autobiographical, and I'm not sure if McCafferty really has it in her to create believable characters that are different from herself, which is why she keeps going back to her stand-in. I never read her two non-Jessica Darling books, but I know that they didn't do as well as her original series--so the decision to go back to what sells strikes me as kinda mercenary (as well as kinda short-sighted, given that the major draw of the books was always the Marcus/Jessica romance, which can't possibly exist in her middle school years). If the new books turn out to be any good, I'll probably still read them for nostalgia's sake, but god, the memories of wasting an actual entire day reading Perfect Fifths are still burned into my head--that's what's kept me away from her dystopian stuff. aslan fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 08:42
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That drat Satyr posted:
I'm in the middle of the third book of this series now and I loving love it. Everyone should run out and get these books. IMO, the second one is the best -- it goes into some seriously dark territory, and the characters (and you the reader) are confronted with pretty intricate moral choices they have to make. If you read the first book and thought the premise/characters/world were really intriguing but the novel itself was too simplistic, keep reading. The characters evolve naturally over time and although the first book is a little formulaic in retrospect, I could not predict where the second (and now third) book was going at any given moment. The series also avoids the "main character is the chosen one" syndrome (which I hate) by making him earn his place in the series of events through his decisions and actions. I'm enjoying this much more than I did Kristin Cashore's Graceling trilogy, and I thought that was pretty good at the time. James Dashner's Maze Runner only trilogy wishes it could be this tense, morally complicated, and gripping. Dashner's premise is interesting (and The Maze Runner is pretty good), but the second book was such a let-down, and I only got about 1/3 into the third book before realizing I didn't give a poo poo about anyone because their personalities were so one-dimensional. Rabbit Hill fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 15:28
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Rabbit Hill posted:The characters evolve naturally over time and although the first book is a little formulaic in retrospect, I could not predict where the second (and now third) book was going at any given moment. The series also avoids the "main character is the chosen one" syndrome (which I hate) by making him earn his place in the series of events through his decisions and actions. I can't wait to hear what you have to say once you've finished them up. =) On the one hand, I anticipated what came at the end... but on the other hand I was very "  ". They are great books, though - everyone really does need to at least give the first a shot.
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Aug 24, 2012 02:53
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I know that it was briefly mentioned on page 1, but I have a "Wrinkle..." question. What do you all think of the series based solely on its literary qualities? I know and understand that the whole religious angle might be too much, but I'm thinking about reading the series and want to know if it's worth it.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:13
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Soundtrack To Mary posted:I know that it was briefly mentioned on page 1, but I have a "Wrinkle..." question. I'd say yes. Many Waters is the one with the most overt religious influence, and it's also the easiest one to skip. (It's about the two Murray kids who only have bit parts elsewhere.) The other three are certainly spiritual--the struggle of creation and harmony against entropy and destruction is the series theme, and an unavoidable part of it; if you aren't into that sort of story you might not enjoy them. But there are some beautiful ideas and lovely images, bits of poetry, wonderful characters, and I remember finding scenes in Wrinkle fairly chilling as a kid.
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Aug 26, 2012 01:43
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Rabbit Hill posted:I'm in the middle of the third book of this series now and I loving love it. Everyone should run out and get these books. IMO, the second one is the best -- it goes into some seriously dark territory, and the characters (and you the reader) are confronted with pretty intricate moral choices they have to make. If you read the first book and thought the premise/characters/world were really intriguing but the novel itself was too simplistic, keep reading. The characters evolve naturally over time and although the first book is a little formulaic in retrospect, I could not predict where the second (and now third) book was going at any given moment. The series also avoids the "main character is the chosen one" syndrome (which I hate) by making him earn his place in the series of events through his decisions and actions. Well you got me interested enough to give this series another try. I read the first book a while ago and hated it. I thought the storyline was interesting but the fact that Todd wouldn't kill anyone annoyed me to no end. I understand the reason behind it but it still irks me when main characters are like this. I just finished the second book today and it completely redeemed the series for me. Even though my previously stated issue was still present, having the entire second book take place in this moral gray area was awesome.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:17
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Yeah, the second book is like..."Holy poo poo, this is for kids?!" Serious moral quandaries at every turn. I finished the third book today on my lunch break and the end made me have to try not to cry in public. What a fantastic series.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:57
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I do not get the love for Sabriel. There was no character development - barely any description of the characters at all really. If he has just spent a little time in the beginning with Sabriel in school going about her normal business, I could've gotten a sense of who she is. There's a reason why every drat fantasy/ya book does this. Instead, I get a character who seems like a placeholder for a much better character that Nix was going to write, but forgot. Lots of stuff and plot and junk happens in the book but I don't know anything about the main character so I can't really give a poo poo what happens to her. I can't help but compare it to The Golden Compass by Philip Pullman since I just finished it. By the end of The Golden Compass I had a really great sense of who Lyra was and I liked her and cared what happened to her. Even a few of the supporting cast, the bear in particular, are pretty well fleshed out. And Pullman somehow managed to fit all that and a great story (something Sabriel also lacked) into a book that is about the same length as Sabriel. I really wanted to like it, mostly because this cover makes Sabriel look awesome, but I was consistently let down by the book. The cat was pretty cool though. ps - His Dark Materials is friggin awesome and I don't know how it wasn't and isn't a bigger deal than it is.
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Aug 28, 2012 11:09
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elbow posted:The Divergent trilogy by Veronica Roth is very similar to The Hunger Games, although only 2 books have been released so far. I just finished Divergent and not too sure what to think about it. I just needed something to read after reading American Psycho for the second time. Roth's prose was tedious at times, and she definitely suffers from the GRRM-level syndrome of repeated phrases throughout. Everything, for a 400+ page book just felt rushed; maybe it's just because not much time passed in the novel. Even though there are sci-fi elements, just doesn't feel that realistic and kind of hand-waved. The training too short and the beatings too often, just would have needed long spans of recovery. That and it felt like months should have separated visits with Tris' mother and brother, vs. it was like a couple of weeks. And Deus ex Mother was just too predictable, sloppy and convenient. The sorting felt too much like Harry Potter and The Magicians (not the sorting itself, but the cliquishness of the factions and the exceptional 'chosen one' who isn't quite sure where he / she belongs) Is Insurgent any better?
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Aug 28, 2012 16:38
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I read Divergent not too long ago and the more I think about it, the less I care for it. Here's my review on Goodreads if you're interested: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/356486684 Insurgent has a lot of the same problems and I thought Tris was even more insufferable.
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Aug 28, 2012 18:34
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I really recommend The Demon Trapper's Daughter to everyone in this thread. It's about a girl whose father is a legendary "demon trapper" in a post post-apocalyptic Atlanta. The city was rebuilt after a ferocious human-demon war, but demons still occasionally pop up in random places and require so called "demon trappers" to handle them. She is struggling to follow in his footsteps after his untimely death, and the book is really a chronicle of how she manages to cope with life in a harsh, unforgiving, and strange world after he is gone. I haven't read a YA book I loved in a long time, but this one was just fantastic. So fantastic that I literally got the second one after closing the final page and started it today. It's well-written with quirky-but-deep characters and an intriguing lore surrounding their world & how it managed to get to the state it is in.
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Aug 28, 2012 20:20
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Unwholly, the sequel to Unwind, came out today. I've read it. My review of the book: Go buy it. Now. But seriously, Unwholly's a good sequel, though I did notice Neal cribbing from The Hunger Games quite a bit. Fortunately, Neal manages to make the slight rip-off (If one could call it that, seeing has this book took four years to be published) an interesting, intense read.
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Aug 28, 2012 22:59
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Violet_Sky posted:Unwholly, the sequel to Unwind, came out today. Aaaa thanks for the heads up about this! I totally forgot it was scheduled to be released this month! The first book was so hosed up, I can only imagine it's just as... well, bad-but-great if you know what I mean.  Honestly though, I think in general with that 'genre' of books ("Kid in a dystopian society that does not really value the life of their children as much as they should", ie: Hunger Games as you mentioned, Maze Runner, Divergent, Maze Runner et all) only has so much ground it can cover before they start overlapping in terms of material. I don't necessarily think that makes any of them better (or worse) than another, just because one might have done it first. But, I get what you're saying - especially when, as it is now, one's been made so hugely popular as Hunger Games is. That Damn Satyr fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 29, 2012 |
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Aug 29, 2012 00:12
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DapperDinosaur posted:I read Divergent not too long ago and the more I think about it, the less I care for it. Here's my review on Goodreads if you're interested: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/356486684 Yeah I have to agree. I started reading Insurgent a few weeks ago but I just don't give a poo poo about any of these characters, so I've abandoned it. I just had to read Ashes by Ilsa J Bick for my YA book club and while it was enjoyable I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who has read THG or Divergent. Girl protagonist, dreary life/environment; dramatic family life; girl unwillingly put in life-threatening situation; girl unexpectedly develops special power/strength; girl finds safe haven but then discovers it is not safe; girl rebels against establishment; girl caught in love triangle. Check, check, check. It's basically the same plot (different setting, though) and it ends with a major cliffhanger rather than finishing the story so it can be read as a stand-alone book. That drat Satyr posted:
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Aug 29, 2012 05:26
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The best YA book I've ever read is Daughter of Smoke and Bone by Laini Taylor.Goodreads description posted:Around the world, black hand prints are appearing on doorways, scorched there by winged strangers who have crept through a slit in the sky. I was really hesitant about reading this at first, with the quirky magical protagonist and the "star-crossed" paranormal romance. I've never been more happy to be completely wrong about a book. Laini Taylor is an incredible writer and she clearly drew a lot of inspiration from the classics: it felt like reading Greek mythology and fairytales and Shakespeare all at once, but somehow she made it work. A lot of reviewers complained about the pacing because it starts off slow and dreamy as you follow Karou around and learn about her world, then suddenly the book ramps up the speed and hits you hard with the "brutal otherworldly war" stuff. But I actually think that it works a lot better that way; I don't think the big plot reveals would have had as strong an emotional impact if they'd slowly been uncovered throughout the book.
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Aug 29, 2012 06:13
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Rabbit Hill posted:The Maze Runner series ... I've only read the first book in the series, though (waiting for the next one to come through ILL). There is now a prequel to the trilogy. I read through the first 3 fairly quickly. While I them they were not the most thought provoking/ moral questioning that a YA book has ever done for me. It did have its moments though like when Thomas kills Newt I am hoping that this Trilogy is as good but I have a feeling that it is just a loose ends tier upper. I did have a REALLY hard time getting in to The Maze Runner I bought it because a blog that I follow recommended it but I literally picked it up and put it back down not ever getting more that 5 pages into it at least 3 or 4 times
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Aug 30, 2012 04:17
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I really liked The Maze Runner. Until the end: another loving zombie apocalypse?? C'mon. I still read the rest of the trilogy, and intend to read the prequel, but I felt disappointed that something more creative wasn't done, since it was such a cool beginning.
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Aug 31, 2012 15:16
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Can someone explain the difference between young adult and juvenile fiction? It seems really arbitrary in my local library. For example, The Giver and Gathering Blue were in the juvenile section, but Messenger, part of the same series, was in young adult. Is it just a guess from the content? (I dunno, I definitely wouldn't put those books in juvenile. It might just be that I was a sheltered kid in the Midwest but it's not like I understood what "stirrings" were when I read it in elementary school. Or really much content about the books other than that they were pretty neat.) I just finished rereading those three books in preparation for the next book in the series, Son coming out in October. Grabbed The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm to read sometime this weekend.
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Aug 31, 2012 16:34
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Everyone who loves John Green would be well advised to give A.S. King a try. She kind of fell into YA lit; she claims to just write whatever kinds of stories she likes, and her agent/publisher market it as YA material. What excites me most about King is that she has been steadily improving from novel to novel. As John Green might say, she is on a rollercoaster that only goes up, my friend! The Dust of 100 Dogs Okay, I'm cheating. This is the one King book I have not read, but it is also the last one I have left to read. Take it away, qualified reviewer! Booklist's Ian Chipman posted:Saffron Adams is a typical teenager, longing to escape her dreadful family and upbringing into a sunnier future. What sets her apart, however, is that she actually has the means to such a future via the buried treasure she left on an island 300 years prior. As Emer Morrisey, she was the scourge of the Caribbean but was then cursed to live the life of 100 dogs. Interludes explore what she learned during her dog lives until she is reborn, memories intact, as a present-day girl. The dual stories of Emer and Saffron progress in parallel, but as the pirate tale gains momentum, the modern strand meanders; readers will likely flash through Saffron’s teenage doldrums to return to Emer’s vainglorious exploits. But don’t mistake this for a romanticized romp on the high seas; the sex is occasionally graphic and disturbing, and the violence is particularly gruesome. Readers will be frustrated by a few plot holes and contrivances, but for the most part this is an undeniably original book that overreaches, yes, but only as a byproduct of its ambition. Grades 10-12.  Please Ignore Vera Dietz The book that landed King on the Printz honor list is the story of hating someone you love, with reconciliation blocked by the fact that the object of love/hate is dead. Vera Dietz is the protagonist, a high schooler kind of drifting through life living with her dad and delivering pizzas by night. Her best friend Charlie ruined their friendship shortly before dying, and his ghost (or the hallucination thereof) follows her around a lot. Throughout the novel, I felt specters of past high school friends in Vera, from the underage drinking to the seedy tales of late-night jobs. King's sense of humor, realism, and bouts of the fantastical all mix into a fun story. Not quite brilliant, but a strong voice in YA fiction with crossover appeal.  Everybody Sees The Ants This is King's latest book in publication and, in my opinion, an evolution of Vera Dietz in several ways. A boy named Lucky is bullied at a swimming pool, on top of some other secret he doesn't want to talk about, even as a narrator. His mother, "the squid," finds her comfort zone in swimming all the time, and his father, "the turtle," leaves home for the workplace all the time to avoid being part of the family. Other relatives try to step in and mentor Lucky, with mixed results, plus he makes some unlikely friends and learns some important things about his comfort zone. Oh, and from time to time he sees a Greek chorus of ants who cheer him through all things, and at night he dreams of rescuing his MIA grandfather out of Laos. I think King pulls off the "hallucinations in the face of adversity" angle better than before, as well as an examination of masculine influences and how Lucky determines who he is.  Ask The Passengers I read an ARC of this (expected publication date: October 23, 2012) and it is easily the best of King I've read yet, perhaps because it is the most grounded in reality of her stories. Issues of sexual orientation, small town gossip, and identity crisis are explored without a hint of pandering. The story examines issues of peer pressure and GLBTQ in so accessible and emotionally open a manner that I would not be surprised if this wins some sort of award for expert portrayal of a teenager in flux. King's hallucinatory tool this time around, that protagonist Astrid Jones "sends" her love to the passengers of planes flying by, transports the reader into the heads of several briefly visited narrators. I think the book trumps Dietz and Ants when the passenger mechanic is used to demonstrate maturity, the nature of love, and self-esteem in so powerful a manner. As a form of testimony, only three YA books have made me cry to date: this, A Monster Calls, and The Fault In Our Stars. Anyway, if you are looking for literary fiction of a fun and introspective sort, A.S. King is your pal. Thanks to everyone for the Chaos Walking shout-outs, I have only read the ebook novella prequel and will now start the series proper because of all the praises found here. Space Fish fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 04:42
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Recently I've been trying to read Red Riding Hood, the book that movie was based on. There are several reasons I don't think I'm going to bother finishing it. 1) the book is technically printed unfinished as this really obnoxious marketing scheme to try and get people in to see the movie. You have to download the last chapter off a website to read it. 2) The premise is really interesting and cool, but it's not really being done justice and that's bothering me. It had potential and was squandered for the sake of a love story. 3) The "misfit" girl is starting to really get on my nerves. She doesn't fit in (perfectly valid), but doesn't want to give this really nice guy in town the time of day for no good reason. She's just decided she doesn't want to give him the time of day and at no point has she ever even bothered to talk to him really. She's all obsessed about a guy who she used to be friends with when they were both kids who went away and came back. He's all dark and mysterious, but they still "get" each other or something. In positive news: D.M. Cornish's Foundling is AWESOME. I read it some time before finding this thread so I hadn't mentioned it yet. From the beginning you get a really interesting world build. The exposition is fairly well blended so you feel like you're picking it up as you go for the most part. It's got kind of vaguely Victorian feel. Definitely British flavored fiction, but I like that in my writing. It's honestly a hard to describe book so I'm just going to pull the Amazon description which works really well: Meet Rossamünd—a foundling, a boy with a girl’s name who is about to begin a dangerous life in the service of the Emperor of the Half-Continent. What starts as a simple journey becomes a dangerous and complicated set of battles and decisions. Humans, monsters, unearthly creatures . . . who among these can Rossamünd trust? D. M. Cornish has created an entirely original world, grounded in his own deft, classically influenced illustrations. Foundling is a magic-laced, Dickensian adventure that will transport the reader. That last bit about a magic-laced, Dickensian adventure is totally spot-on. ^^ Thought there is some magic after a fashion is sciencey magic. They don't do spells exactly, but there are people with abilities and powers that are very magical, but they undergo a pretty gruesome surgery for it. Foundling is the first in the trilogy and I intend to read them all, but they aren't really easy to find so I'm having to kind of look around a bit for the other two. But even alone it's a really cool story, you just kind of feel like Rossamund is destined for something pretty big.
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Sep 5, 2012 05:19
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Conduit for Sale! posted:ps - His Dark Materials is friggin awesome and I don't know how it wasn't and isn't a bigger deal than it is. I read His Dark Materials around the same age I was reading piles of poo poo like Eragon and it blew mind that something could be that good, with a universe on such a large scale. I think most of the religious imagery went over my head at that age but just the worlds he creates are fantastic. If you haven't read His Dark Materials you are doing yourself and massive disservice. Also The Book Thief was mentioned before, I whole heartedly recommend it. Its one of the most unique and touching books I've read, and the writing level is waaay above most YA. Read it, especially if you have any interest in World War II.
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Sep 5, 2012 07:09
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tvb posted:Any opinions on "13 Reasons Why"? I know that it was a sensation of sorts, and while practically every YA without dystopian future or paranormal romance must be about teen suicide, I'm curious. Some reviews say that the narrator is a real whiner, though, and since the author's follow-up (The Future of Us) got such mediocre reviews, I'm skeptical. Hi! This is a super-old post, but I wanted to post about how much I liked 13 Reasons Why. I disagree that the narrator is a whiner (at least as far as Clay is concerned - if they're referring to Hannah then I think maybe they don't get it?). It's got a very clever structure and I think the marketing for it was just all wrong (the cover would suggest Hannah's the protagonist when she's most certainly not). As for what I'm reading: Will Grayson, Will Grayson by John Green and David Levithan Another book that plays with structure as it tells the story of two boys named Will Grayson in alternating chapters, each written by Green and Levithan. I like Green's Grayson a lot more but both are really intriguing characters and when they finally crossover it works really well. I've only got a few chapters left to go, but I'm loving it. I'm doing House of the Scorpion next, but everyone tells me it's terrible. :/
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Sep 23, 2012 07:34
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Reading The Clockwork Three right now, and I really like it actually. It's definitely the best of the ones recommended to me recently (see above post from me). It's steampunk-y, but not overly so.
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Sep 25, 2012 01:05
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Rabbit Hill posted:I've finished Kristin Cashore's Fire and now Bitterblue, and I think out of the trilogy I enjoyed Fire the most. Bitterblue had an interesting premise but especially during the last 1/3 of the book got extremely emotionally overwrought and ridiculous with the constant weeping and angst. Honestly, this is the kind of emotional tenor you find in hurt/comfort fanfiction, and I was really put off by it here. I was actually really disappointed with Graceling after all the raving I heard about it from people on my GR feed. It's just... Cashore's writing style relies heavily on either the narrator or a character literally telling things instead of showing the reader. Also the antagonist is really underdeveloped and the build-up to the climax is just so sudden and short. I felt like the last quarter of the book was just tying up loose ends. I don't know. I really wanted to like this book and I had really high hopes for it, but it just kind of fell short for me. I might give the other books in the series a chance, but right now? Ehh, I'm still a little bitter. naptalan posted:The best YA book I've ever read is Daughter of Smoke and Bone by Laini Taylor. There is one thing in this book that I felt was more or less a slap in face as a female reader, but I'm not going to expound upon it here (it's a smallish spoiler connected to a bunch of bigger spoilers) and besides that the book is extremely well-done despite that. I am really looking forward to the next book in the series still. Right now I'm reading through Libba Bray's The Diviners which is very much a YA murder-mystery with occultist ties, taking place in Prohibition-era New York. I'm still early in and there's a lot of jumping around in character perspective, but I'm enjoying it so far.
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Sep 25, 2012 17:16
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Talked to Jay Asher today and he's an way different dude than his book would suggest. Very funny.
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Sep 25, 2012 23:02
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I thought about doing a thread for this, since I really like Riordan's work in general, but noticed this thread and figured it would be better to put it here. The newest novel in Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series (The Mark of Athena) comes out Tuesday (you can still preorder on amazon with prime for free same-day shipping through tomorrow sometime).  I read through the Percy Jackson series and really enjoyed it, though I thought it definitely got better as it went on. The first book was kind of hard to get started with, but the third book onward were all great reads. This book is part of his second series, which is a sequel to the Percy Jackson series (and has been mentioned earlier in the thread). I definitely prefer this second series to the first one. The Lost Hero was great and I thought The Son of Poseidon was even better, so I'm looking forward to this new one. These books are definitely good reads if you're into mythology or are just looking for something light and fairly brainless to read.
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Sep 29, 2012 05:58
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Since somebody else brought up 13 Reasons Why . . . I had a lot of issues with it. I can understand why (younger) teens would like it, but it just didn't seem to hold up to an adult audience--the idea was great, but it was poorly executed. My biggest problem with it was simply that Asher completely copped out when it came to why Clay was included on the tapes in the first place. Hannah claims that everybody is on the tapes for a reason, you read through the book in suspense, wanting to find out why Clay is on there, and then it turns out that the reason that he's on there is . . . that he did nothing? And she's not even mad at him? Ugh. Asher could have driven his message home much more effectively if it had turned out that Clay actually had done something that he'd thought was totally innocent but was, in fact, really hurtful--and I think a skilled writer could have done this without sacrificing much of Clay's likeability, as long as he repented in the end--but that's not what we get. It was just a big waste of build-up, and all the tension in the book pretty much dissipates from there. And the frustrating part was that it felt like that's the plot Asher was building up to--there are a couple parts earlier in the book where Clay thinks about something that somebody else on the tapes did, and says essentially, "Yeah, it was lovely, but it was just a mistake and not that big of a deal"--and I thought we'd eventually get to the point where Clay is confronted with a similar incident of his own and is forced to realize that "just a mistake" and "not that big of a deal" are just bullshit excuses when it comes to hurting other people . . . but we never do. My other big problem with it was that I don't think Hannah is an interesting enough character to build this kind of plot around. Asher seems to view "contrived circumstances of victimhood" as a substitute for actual characterization, and I never really got why Clay liked her so much. His depiction of her depression wasn't convincing to me, and the implications of the book--the implicit agreement with the suggestion that suicide is the "fault" of anyone other than the person who kills themselves seems really irresponsible to me. And oh, I found some of the gender politics of the book a little icky. There's a part where Clay implies that he wouldn't have liked Hannah if he'd thought the "rumors" about her were true. And fine, that is a typical teenage boy opinion to have, it's realistic, whatever--except that a) there's never any authorial implication that it's a douchebag opinion; Clay is presented as being completely justified, and b) at that point in the book, "the rumors" don't go any further than "oh, she let some dude touch her boobs and/or maybe gave a hand job." Is this book secretly taking place in the 1930s? This isn't loving Splendor in the Grass; I can't imagine that there's any high school outside of, like, River Valley Evangelical Christian Academy for Future Republican Politicians where that's enough to win you a reputation as a super-ho and/or "ruined" for future girlfriendhood. And in general, I thought Asher's depiction of Hannah as a constant victim was really sloppily done in a way that seemed gratuitous--it's certainly not unrealistic, but it would have been nice if that hadn't been her only defining characteristic. Oops, apparently I had more opinions on this book than I thought.
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Sep 30, 2012 14:07
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Asher talked about Clay being on the tapes. Essentially Hannah includes him because he's important and needs to hear the story (As Tony surmises) and also because, despite what she says, he is not sinless. His entire character arc is that his sin was inaction and, by virtue of the epilogue at school, we see that he's come to learn his lesson and will now act. Clay belongs on the tapes just as much as anybody and he realizes it, despite what Hannah may have said in her pre-suicide mindset. Re: Hannah: She's not necessarily supposed to be likeable, which is tough to do with a protagonist. There's lots of times in the book where she says something that the reader might obviously find disagreeable and stupid, and often in those cases Clay will even say something to that effect ("Ugh!" "Oh God, that's stupid."). I disagree the book implies Hannah's suicide is anything other than her fault. Her mental situation was exacerbated by her bad luck, but the act itself is viewed by all the characters who voice an opinion about it as something they thought was terrible. The book is not about suicide, anyway. It's about being aware of how your actions effect others. Clay liked her because he knew of the Hannah before the multitude of terrible things that happened to her. He didn't much like the later Hannah and it shows. Hannah's reputation stems from giving it up on the first date (which, of course, she didn't). Prudish or not that's a reputation-getter in high school. I disagree that Clay is necessarily a "douchebag" for not being attracted to a hypothetical girl with such a reputation. I agree that there are issues with the book (and the literal series of unfortunate events is definitely one of them), but I don't agree with the ones you presented necessarily.
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Oct 1, 2012 04:07
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More 13 Reasons Why stuff: I get that Clay isn't entirely blameless, but he's not nearly as responsible as the narrative requires for his inclusion on the tapes to work, and he's certainly not as guilty as the book tries to convince us he is. Asher (through Clay) tries really hard to push the idea that he's guilty really hard, but that's just simply not true when you put any thought into it, and it sinks the tension of the whole story. It's supposed to be the climax of the novel, and yet it's incredibly anti-climactic. I don't think Asher had the balls to actually risk making his main character more unlikeable and more morally gray, even though it would have served the plot much better. If he'd wanted to explore the idea of "the sin of inaction," he could have done it in ways that would have made Clay's guilt much harder to argue with (like he did with Hannah witnessing Jessica's rape and choosing not to stop it). He chose not to because keeping Clay likeable was more important to him. And I didn't say Hannah wasn't likeable enough, I said she wasn't interesting enough. I think you can build this kind of story around a flawed and hard-to-like narrator, but Asher doesn't. He seems to think that victimizing her over and over again is enough to get the audience to care--and maybe we would, if he wasn't so blatantly pulling the strings. What do we know about Hannah that doesn't involve her bullying? That she worked in a movie theater and used to like to go to a cafe sometimes? It's like he put no effort into her characterization at all. We never even find out why Clay likes her in the first place. (Clay's characterization isn't much better, really. Both characters seem very, very archetypal with almost no additional fleshing out, which was maybe on purpose but maybe not.) And again, in the hands of a more skilled author with a better sense of restraint the victimization thing might have worked, but in this case it just feels (at least to me) like really obvious and annoying authorial manipulation. Re: the rumors, my understanding of the book is that there's a slow build-up. At first she claims the only rumor circulating is that she let the first dude who kissed her touch her boobs, later there's hand job rumors, then the sex toys . . . the rumor that she puts out on the first date doesn't start circulating until maybe halfway through the book. The part where Clay claims he wouldn't be into her if the rumors were true is before that point--at the point where she's only allegedly hooked up with 2 or 3 people and not had sex with any of them. I don't want to get into a promiscuity derail, but regardless of anyone's feelings on whether or not Clay's opinion makes him a d-bag, it does undermine the point of the novel a bit. The whole time, Asher is pushing the idea that all these bullies who are judging and making assumptions about Hannah for the rumors circulating around her sexuality are assholes, but then he has Clay do it too (albeit on a smaller scale). So are we supposed to think that Hannah's only sympathetic because the rumors about her are false? Would the bullying be kosher--or at least less appalling--if she actually was sleeping around? I don't know, the comment really threw me out of the story because it seemed to completely contradict the other points Asher was trying to make. I kept waiting for it to be re-addressed to fit in better with the rest of the story's moralizing and it never was. What problems did you have with it? The more I think about this book, the more it bugs me, so I can't imagine I'll disagree with much of what you found fault with either.
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Oct 1, 2012 13:40
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Hopefully I'm not the only one this excited, but the final book in the Giver series is out. I got my copy of Son yesterday. I'm basically focusing on finishing my current book as fast as I can so I can get into this. There's an interview on goodreads with author Lois Lowry, http://www.goodreads.com/interviews/show/813.Lois_Lowry It looks like it contains some mild spoilers for Son though.
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Oct 5, 2012 14:07
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I just downloaded Son. Lois Lowry will be speaking in my city on the 14th. I'm super-excited to go see her!
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Oct 6, 2012 00:19
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mastajake posted:I thought about doing a thread for this, since I really like Riordan's work in general, but noticed this thread and figured it would be better to put it here. I just finished this book up in no time at all, and I enjoyed it. This series is a guilty pleasure of mine, I dig the mythology and how it's 'Greek/Roman Gods being dicks, but for kids.' If you enjoyed the previous books, this is worth picking up. Still a few pieces of bad humor, but I just roll with it.
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Oct 7, 2012 03:52
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bitter almond posted:I just downloaded Son. Lois Lowry will be speaking in my city on the 14th. I'm super-excited to go see her! You have no idea how jealous I am of you. The closest anyone ever gets to me is Minnesota or Iowa. Both of which are too far for me Please tell me how it goes.I'm about 65% of the way through. I could have easily finished it by now, but I've slowed because for some weird reason I'm scared/sad to see the book and series end. It's kinda weird for me. I think it's that the series is about as old as I am, and after I read the giver when I was 8 or so I pretty much grew up with it. So maybe it feels like that part of me is ending too. I dunno. I've never really had this problem before. The closest has been slowing down because I was enjoying the ride too much. Maybe this is just a testament to how good the series is (or how sentimental I am).
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Oct 7, 2012 18:23
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I've been on a YA kick for the easy read and it's fun to see so many of the books I've read mentioned here. I'd have to say though, for a majority I was mildly irritated to outright hating the books. If the main characters act like bratty teenagers or fall instantly madly in love for no apparent reason, I just cannot like it. Divergent/Insurgent were probably the ones I disliked the most because everyone is an rear end in a top hat, they have to be, I mean they're suuuper edgy. I probably just need to avoid the dystopian romance novels. On the other hand, just blew through Unwind and loved it. Dark as hell and the protagonists were mature for their ages. I do see general similarities to THG teens are forced to do ghastly thing, teens do ghastly thing but main character inadvertently becomes rebel icon in the process, teenage main character goes to war (? haven't read Unwholly yet) but Unwind is so much better. It's well written and has great character development. Definitely going to be checking out some of the interesting ones in this thread. Corn Thongs fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 09:22
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Corn Thongs posted:I've been on a YA kick for the easy read and it's fun to see so many of the books I've read mentioned here. I'd have to say though, for a majority I was mildly irritated to outright hating the books. If the main characters act like bratty teenagers or fall instantly madly in love for no apparent reason, I just cannot like it. Divergent/Insurgent were probably the ones I disliked the most because everyone is an rear end in a top hat, they have to be, I mean they're suuuper edgy. I probably just need to avoid the dystopian romance novels. I would recommend Unstrung, too. It's an e-book that falls in between Unwind and UnWholly. I felt it was worth the 1.99 from Amazon. And I've been thinking about why I don't get annoyed at and actually quite enjoy a lot of the books that a lot of the rest of you find pretty revolting. I think it's because I work with teens as a high school English teacher. I tend to find the characters realistic because that's what I see each day. Angsty teen protagonists are my everyday life.
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Oct 12, 2012 03:33
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Just read Unstrung  That's all I'll say.Angsty teen protagonists are fine for their purpose, which is to be easily identifiable by angsty teenagers but that means it doesn't have wider appeal and won't be more than throwaway books for kids. I was surprised to see NPR's top YA fiction list included classics like To Kill a Mockingbird, Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies etc... though of course the list itself is of pretty dubious quality.
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Oct 12, 2012 08:36
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Corn Thongs posted:I was surprised to see NPR's top YA fiction list included classics like To Kill a Mockingbird, Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies etc... though of course the list itself is of pretty dubious quality. I think I recently figured out why I never really enjoyed Catcher in the Rye. It just seems to be such a targeted story. It guess it would speak to upper/middle class kids who haven't really tried to find themselves yet and, I dunno, maybe they imagine themselves in Holden's shoes. For me, it was required reading in high school. 90% of us at that school were middle/lower middle class boarding school students attending on school-sponsored scholarships. To a lot of us, reading it was very, "fuckin' deal with it, I was duct taped to my bed for three hours this morning." There was just this huge content:context disconnect. Admittedly, I can't recall the finer details of the story, but from how I remember it, it'd be better marketed as, "Lament of a Wealthy Kid." I guess it might be hard to find an acceptable replacement in the curriculum, but I personally think that it's reaching a point where it may be just too irrelevant to a number of its readers these days. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Oct 13, 2012 |
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Oct 13, 2012 23:31
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I really loved (and still do) The Hero and the Crown and The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley. Two stories in the same universe, the first deals with Aerin, daughter of the king, who everyone thinks is a witch and who learns to kill dragons after she stumbles on a recipe for a fireproofing ointment. The second is in the same universe, but hundreds of years later, and follows the adventures of Hari, who is kidnapped into Aerin's country. She's written other awesome books, of which Sunshine is also amazing. It's a YA supernatural romancey thing, but one that never forgets that vampires are creepy weirdos. These are made even more awesome because I emailed Robin McKinley on her website to tell her how much I loved her books and she emailed me back and thanked me!
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Oct 14, 2012 00:43
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Has anyone read The Chemical Gardens books by Lauren DeStefano? I thought they were a pretty decent read. They focus on a dystopian America where genetic engineering has caused the younger generations to die; women at 20 and men at 25. The story centers around a teenage girl named Rhine who is abducted from her home and married off to a rich man, along with two other young girls, and expected to produce children. I think the implications of genetic engineering are a really interesting subject, and the central character isn't as insufferable as many YA heroines can be. Knerd fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 14, 2012 |
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Oct 14, 2012 18:31
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Rodent Mortician posted:I really loved (and still do) The Hero and the Crown and The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley. Two stories in the same universe, the first deals with Aerin, daughter of the king, who everyone thinks is a witch and who learns to kill dragons after she stumbles on a recipe for a fireproofing ointment. The second is in the same universe, but hundreds of years later, and follows the adventures of Hari, who is kidnapped into Aerin's country. If I hated Beauty, is there any point reading anything else she's written? I heard so many good things about her - including a positive blurb from Neil Gaiman on Sunshine - that I put the only book available in our library on hold - Beauty. I got it and I hated it. Beauty was such a self-righteous arrogant little... well, Goodreads review here, but if you enjoyed it you should probably save yourself time, skip the review and just tell me to shut up. There aren't a lot of older books being discussed here, but I absolutely loved Day of the Triffids when I was in school. Found that after reading The Chrysalids for a class assignment, which I also liked but which was a lot heavier handed in the "people are bastards" theme than DoTT. The Chrysalids focuses on a post-apocalyptic world, DoTT focuses on a mid-apocalyptic world - in fact I would have loved to read some sequels of that one. For years one or both of those books were absolutely necessary inclusions whenever I was travelling. There've been a few mentions of The Giver by Lois Lowry - I didn't read that one until a couple years ago but I quite liked it - I read it because people were constantly comparing it to 1984, which is one of my favorite books. I actually found it more along the lines of Brave New World - I felt that both had societies that one could interpret equally easily as utopian or dystopian, depending on how you looked at it. Haven't read the sequels yet - I'm always apprehensive about reading sequels - it risks injuring or even destroying one's opinion of the original book.
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Oct 15, 2012 02:08
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