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Amy Renee
Nov 27, 2009

Did Triple H do everything he could to break my body and my spirit? Yes. Did he try to use his power to put an end to the YES movement? Yes. Did he succeed?


Every time I look at Nomura's designs, my heart cries out more for Yoshitaka Amano. Between him, Sakaguchi, and Uematsu, even to me why I haven't abandoned SE for Mistwalker.

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Cityinthesea
Aug 7, 2009


They've only made three games and you can play those as well as playing FF games? I didn't really like Lost Odyssey. the memories' stories were very very good, but the base story was super uninteresting, and the battles took way too long.

Amy Renee
Nov 27, 2009

Did Triple H do everything he could to break my body and my spirit? Yes. Did he try to use his power to put an end to the YES movement? Yes. Did he succeed?


Maybe I should have tacked on that I haven't found an FF enjoyable since it left the PS1.

Mrs. Badcrumble
Sep 21, 2002


Azure_Horizon posted:

I don't. I don't need more games that are sleep aids.

you've already got enough aids!
doh hoh hoh hoh

Mansion Maniac posted:

Every time I look at Nomura's designs, my heart cries out more for Yoshitaka Amano. Between him, Sakaguchi, and Uematsu, even to me why I haven't abandoned SE for Mistwalker.

Nomura's designs on the PS1 were fine, albeit simple, and they've been fine (and a good bit more sophisticated) on the PS3/360. It's just that his FFX/FFX-2/Kingdom Hearts 1+2/Dirge of Cerberus period was pretty dang bad and it's also precisely what people stereotype his character design as (i.e. wholly impractical clothing completely laden with every single bangle and accessory imaginable).

Lightning and Fang in particular are excellent designs, as are Noctis and Stella and the two father-figure looking dudes from Versus.

Himuro
Jan 13, 2007

When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the room, accept no substitutes.

Mansion Maniac posted:

Maybe I should have tacked on that I haven't found an FF enjoyable since it left the PS1.

And yet Nomura's art was a big proponent in two of the three psx FF's.

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

Big Games Poster


El Estrago Bonito posted:

Are we allowed to talk about how awesome FF:Legends were? Because its technically not a Final Fantasy game.

The SaGa series is the complete polar opposite of FF in terms of design and player agency, but whenever they try releasing them outside of Japan they're met with near-unanimous derision. I hate you, general public.

S-Alpha
Oct 21, 2010

Fighting for truth, justice, and to Spark new moves.

PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

The SaGa series is the complete polar opposite of FF in terms of design and player agency, but whenever they try releasing them outside of Japan they're met with near-unanimous derision. I hate you, general public.

Hey, SaGa Frontier was good. You know, the one third of a game that we actually got.

Someday they'll go back to it. Someday we'll get HD Alkaiser.

Saoshyant
Oct 26, 2010

not one bit


I'll keep saying Ultimate Saga was one of my favorite PS2 games 'til the day I grow old and die.

Mansion Maniac posted:

Maybe I should have tacked on that I haven't found an FF enjoyable since it left the PS1.

Lost Odyssey has way more in common with the PS1 FF games than the later ones. Give it a try at least.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

You are all DOOMED

pw pw pw posted:

Can you show me a game with characters he designed that do not suck donkey chunks? I'm genuinely interested curious.
He designed the boss monsters for SMRPG.

EDIT: Also yeah, the PS1 FFs had some occasional weird designs (what's with your arm-guard Yuffie why is it so huge) but for the most part they were solid.

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

These Gauls are crazy.


Gaseous Snake posted:

I might have to give these guys more credit. The only things I recognized were Tidus and Auron's swords.

Warrior Yuna actually uses Tidus' animations. Laziness or intentional? I'm betting on both.

tamriilin
Dec 28, 2008

House was on this page when he got that annoying "I'm such a genius" look.

Amppelix posted:

Warrior Yuna actually uses Tidus' animations. Laziness or intentional? I'm betting on both.

re-using art assets to great effect (i.e. hardly anybody notices they're reused) is a talent of square enix's and was actually pretty common in the PS2 era, all the way back to the beginning of games.

Now, it's really hard to re-use art assets, in part because with HD everything is so noticeable; also because art teams really love to create new art assets.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


Pesky Splinter posted:

I tend to think of Shuyin's design as an apology for Tidus'
It's the same basic design, but without looking quite as ridiculous.
Why wasn't it in Dissidia

I also wanted the Shuyin outfit as an alt for Tidus.

Then when I heard Yuna would be in the sequel I hoped for X-2 Yuna. more disappointment.

As for Nomura's designs, Seifer and Auron both look really good. The outfits are cool and are very indicative of their personalities.

I was gonna praise Nomura for the Advent Children re-designs but it looks like he didn't do them. The movie may have sucked but the music and visuals were very nice I thought. Tifa especially was a lot more respectable with her dress and breast reduction.

QuantaStarFire
May 18, 2006



NikkolasKing posted:

I was gonna praise Nomura for the Advent Children re-designs but it looks like he didn't do them. The movie may have sucked but the music and visuals were very nice I thought. Tifa especially was a lot more respectable with her dress and breast reduction.

Of course, there's also Barret and his mesh shirt.


p.crestmont
Feb 17, 2012


Mansion Maniac posted:

Every time I look at Nomura's designs, my heart cries out more for Yoshitaka Amano. Between him, Sakaguchi, and Uematsu, even to me why I haven't abandoned SE for Mistwalker.

The technology is finally getting to the point that they could actually use Amano's designs and artwork in game. I hope they have the sense to do that on the next generation FF, I'd buy 2 copies of that game and frame one on my wall.

OatmealRaisin
Aug 15, 2007

I'm going to commit more science

Nomura was at his best in the PS1 era when technology limitations stopped him from adding details upon details to his characters. Also, according to rumor he has a weird sense of humor. I've heard that the fur lining on Squall's jacket in particular was added just to make the CG team's life hell.

Fight Club Sandwich
Apr 29, 2006

you want a piece of me???

I don't see why they don't just cut out the middle man and just introduce a giant belt buckle as a character.

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010


OatmealRaisin posted:

Nomura was at his best in the PS1 era when technology limitations stopped him from adding details upon details to his characters. Also, according to rumor he has a weird sense of humor. I've heard that the fur lining on Squall's jacket in particular was added just to make the CG team's life hell.

You see Lulu's beltskirt? He wanted to see how the CG team would handle that, that's why they did it.

They 'handled' it by never showing Lulu from the waist-down in CGs. And in one CG where the entire group pretty much needs to have their entire bodies shown, Lulu is mysteriously absent.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...


And that's why I will defend Lulu's character design till the day I die because it was done just to mess with the CG artists.

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010



Intent to troll the artists or not, I will never buy the concept of a pale goth chick dressed in black leather and fur while exposing excessive and easily-sunburnt skin up top who lives on a tropical island.

I mean, Yuna, Rikku, and Auron look fine. Tidus and Wakka look goofy. Lulu is just silly.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Mazed posted:

I mean, Yuna, Rikku, and Auron look fine. Tidus and Wakka look goofy. Lulu is just silly.

Rikku's X outfit always seemed like a callback to Yuffie's to me. Her X-2 outfit is kind of dumb, but that goes without saying. Auron's main feature is his giant gently caress-off cloak and it doesn't really look out of place by Final Fantasy standards.

Yuna, on the other hand, always dumbfounded me. She just looks so normal. Just a lightly-colored kimono with a handful of ornate ribbons and jewelry is probably the most nondescript design of any character in the series to date. Hell, real kimonos tend to be more colorful and covered in patterns than the one she's wearing. It really makes her seem so bizarrely out of place in a party of what looks like bad cosplay enthusiasts.

Then they shat all over it in X-2 and balance was returned to the universe.

Though, if we're talking about ridiculousness of outfits, Amano wasn't exactly immune to this either. After all, he designed the worst-dressed character in all of Final Fantasy: Kuja.

Mrs. Badcrumble
Sep 21, 2002


Eh, I think ornateness of detail has always been a part of the original character designs (Amano's drawings and paintings are always immensely busy). I don't have a problem with that whether it's Nomura or Amano doing it.

Also, IIRC, Amano didn't *actually* design the FF9 characters.

Mrs. Badcrumble fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 16:31

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Mak0rz posted:

Though, if we're talking about ridiculousness of outfits, Amano wasn't exactly immune to this either. After all, he designed the worst-dressed character in all of Final Fantasy: Kuja.

You might not like his codpiece, but at least it had symmetry and was not offensively covered in non-functional crap. No, the designs in X and X-2 and (shudder) Dirge of Cerberus still take the cake.

As to whether Amano did them, for what it's worth Wikipedia says: "Original concepts and designs were created by Yoshitaka Amano. The in-game version of each character was completed by Hideo Minaba and Toshiyuki Itahana."

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

You are all DOOMED

Not to mention, considering his personality Kuja's design was probably at least sort of meant to be garish.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


Don't all the Genomes wear a similar outfit? Kuja just pimped his out which kept in line with his narcissism and individuality.

I know a lot of people have problems with Garnet's outfit in IX. Eiko's too.

Edit:

Speaking of FF fashion disasters, what's the consensus on FFXII designs? I know Vaan gets a lot of flack and Ashe too but how about everyone else?

Actually, I don't even know who the character designer for XII was. I don't think it was Amano or Nomura.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 16:56

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Schwartzcough posted:

You might not like his codpiece, but at least it had symmetry and was not offensively covered in non-functional crap. No, the designs in X and X-2 and (shudder) Dirge of Cerberus still take the cake.

How many people in Dirge, X, or X-2 wear their purple metal thongs outside of their clothes?

NikkolasKing posted:

Don't all the Genomes wear a similar outfit? Kuja just pimped his out which kept in line with his narcissism and individuality.



Two varieties wear a less-ornate yet similar shirt, but their pants/whatever and shoes are a little less stupid. The center outfit looks fairly normal in comparison.

quote:

I know a lot of people have problems with Garnet's outfit in IX. Eiko's too.

Yeah, Eiko's outfit was pretty dumb as well, but Garnet just wore a plain orange leotard with a white shirt underneath or something. Not fashionable by any means, but I wouldn't call it terrible... that is, until she hits Trance:




Her Amano design is classy as all hell though:

Mak0rz fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 16:59

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!



Mak0rz posted:

Her Amano design is classy as all hell though:


I know most of his designs look the same, but Zidane/Garnet's are dead ringers for Locke/Celes. Interesting that their roles sort of match up as well. Until like the third act when aliens did it.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


^^^
[e]: Beaten by a mile.

NikkolasKing posted:

Don't all the Genomes wear a similar outfit? Kuja just pimped his out which kept in line with his narcissism and individuality.

I know a lot of people have problems with Garnet's outfit in IX. Eiko's too.



The design for the male genomes is far worse than what people make out Kuja's to be. And that's taking into account his mascara and lipstick.

I've never really heard people having a problem with Garnet's clothes, except her trance mode, which just looks awful; Eiko's yes, because of the unfortunate colour scheme.

Flesh-toned clothes are never a good idea.


[e2]: It's a codpiece people! Not a thong, a codpiece! It pieces the cods! It cods the pieces!

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 17:07

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

NikkolasKing posted:

Speaking of FF fashion disasters, what's the consensus on FFXII designs? I know Vaan gets a lot of flack and Ashe too but how about everyone else?

Actually, I don't even know who the character designer for XII was. I don't think it was Amano or Nomura.

People can't give the designs in XII too much crap when you look at the rest of the series. Vaan gets most of his hate for his badly textured abs and silly posses he takes in concept art. He's basically just wearing a vest and armored pants. Likewise, Ashe's outfit isn't that weird for a game; people just don't like a serious-minded resistance leader princess to be wearing a miniskirt.

Now, Fran's outfit (along with all Viera) is pure cheesecake. Basch isn't bad and Balthier looks downright dapper.

Mak0rz posted:

How many people in Dirge, X, or X-2 wear their purple metal thongs outside of their clothes?

You're honestly asking that? Go look at your average X or X-2 NPC; thongs outside their clothes is standard apparel. Or look at Dirge for a guy with a jock strap on his FACE. Kuja's "thong" (not sure why people always call it that, since I'm pretty sure you never see his rear end) isn't worn over his clothes; it's the only thing he wears on his crotch. But he keeps it modest with his butt cape/sarong thing.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 17:06

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Schwartzcough posted:

You're honestly asking that? Go look at your average X or X-2 NPC; thongs outside their clothes is standard apparel. Or look at Dirgo for a guy with a jock strap on his FACE.

I'm... just going to have to take your word for that

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010



In a technical as well as aesthetic sense, the costume and character designs in FF7 were really, really good.

Everyone was smartly, simply designed with a unique color palette, silhouette, and cut of garment, resulting in looks that became indelible and iconic. Black, silver and sleek is Sephiroth, navy-blue, yellow and spikey is Cloud. Outside the game, you could glance at a character's artwork and instantly know what the idea behind them was. Big man with gun arm and torn vest, sporty chick with tank top and stompin'-boots.

Of course...not sure that Yuffie and Cait Sith qualify as any good, by those standards, but I suppose they can't all be gems.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


Mak0rz posted:

I'm... just going to have to take your word for that

You don't need to, here's an image of jockstrap face from earlier in the thread:


Look at it! Look at it!

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010


Mazed posted:


Of course...not sure that Yuffie and Cait Sith qualify as any good, by those standards, but I suppose they can't all be gems.

Yuffie's communicates that she's a teenage brat pretty well.

Now, a Ninja teenage brat, less so.

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010



Perhaps she is, at that. Compared to the rest, though, it feels like Yuffie was kind of thrown in as an afterthought (even her fellow optional-PC, Vincent, had a much better look going).

Cait Sith...I confess, the first time I saw him, I didn't even know what the gently caress I was looking at.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Schwartzcough posted:

People can't give the designs in XII too much crap when you look at the rest of the series. Vaan gets most of his hate for his badly textured abs and silly posses he takes in concept art. He's basically just wearing a vest and armored pants. Likewise, Ashe's outfit isn't that weird for a game; people just don't like a serious-minded resistance leader princess to be wearing a miniskirt.

Now, Fran's outfit (along with all Viera) is pure cheesecake. Basch isn't bad and Balthier looks downright dapper.

Hahaha, I forgot Penelo entirely; how appropriate. Her outfit is kinda dumb, but not offensive.


Mazed posted:

Of course...not sure that Yuffie and Cait Sith qualify as any good, by those standards, but I suppose they can't all be gems.

Well, they still have distinct profiles... And you generally don't see Yuffie without her novelty oversized shuriken and poo poo-eating grin indicating that she's a mischievous teenage ninja, so I think she still qualifies.


Pesky Splinter posted:

You don't need to, here's an image of jockstrap face from earlier in the thread:


Look at it! Look at it!

Worst character design in the series, right there.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


It's pretty telling that Weiss' generic design is actually the best design in DOC.

Can people with eyesight better than mine tell me if Sephiroth's design has changed much thanks to better graphics? From what I can tell he has a much thinner figure but that could just be due to the fact they couldn't render that sort of thing in FFVII. I'm more interested if they made his clothes weirder somehow.

ManSedan
May 7, 2006
Seats 4

Schwartzcough posted:

People can't give the designs in XII too much crap when you look at the rest of the series. Vaan gets most of his hate for his badly textured abs and silly posses he takes in concept art. He's basically just wearing a vest and armored pants.

It's amazing what a simple shirt will do for someones design.

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!



ManSedan posted:

It's amazing what a simple shirt will do for someones design.


Take off the tiny jacket and I think it's 100% better. Kill all tiny jackets.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


NikkolasKing posted:

Can people with eyesight better than mine tell me if Sephiroth's design has changed much thanks to better graphics? From what I can tell he has a much thinner figure but that could just be due to the fact they couldn't render that sort of thing in FFVII. I'm more interested if they made his clothes weirder somehow.

I think it's just that they're using more realistic proportions now, os he isn't quite so top heavy. His actual costume has stayed the same I think (outside of his Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts costumes), though his hair style changes game-to-game, and I think the logo on his belt changes slightly. I'm not too sure of that though.

Mrs. Badcrumble
Sep 21, 2002


Yeah, the designs in XII were excellent, apart from Vaan and Penelo (surprise!). And yes, Vaan's revised sky-pirate costume for the spinoffs was far superior.

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Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


ManSedan posted:

It's amazing what a simple shirt will do for someones design.



Ah so that's where Steiner's greaves went.

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