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Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


ManSedan posted:

It's amazing what a simple shirt will do for someones design.



That's so much better than rent-boy Vaan:

Put a shirt on ya goddamn beatnik!

[e]: Well, Kuja does use the opening of "We Will Rock You" as a beat for some of his theme songs.
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 17:45

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Nohman
Sep 18, 2007
Never been worse.

Endorph posted:

Not to mention, considering his personality Kuja's design was probably at least sort of meant to be garish.

Kuja becomes an amazing character if you assume he's supposed to be an '80s glam rocker and read all his lines as Freddie Mercury.

Squallege
Jan 7, 2006

No greater good, no just cause



Pesky Splinter posted:

That's so much better than rent-boy Vaan:

Put a shirt on ya goddamn beatnik!

He steals only what he can't afford and that's everything.

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010



NikkolasKing posted:

Can people with eyesight better than mine tell me if Sephiroth's design has changed much thanks to better graphics? From what I can tell he has a much thinner figure but that could just be due to the fact they couldn't render that sort of thing in FFVII. I'm more interested if they made his clothes weirder somehow.

About the most they did was make it so that he (and Aeris) didn't have the crazy antenna-bangs going. In his appearances in various spinoffs, the only real change that ever seems to show up (and only in non-"canon" games) is a single wing on his back, referencing his ever-popular final boss form.

Otherwise, he's virtually the same, in costume, dimensions, and proportion. Though the aesthetic has since become a terrible cliche, his is a very good design, and one could say that no embellishment is necessary. Not sure, now, why they did change up Cloud and Tifa, since they looked just fine and could have been easily adapted to higher-def.

Nohman posted:

Kuja becomes an amazing character if you assume he's supposed to be an '80s glam rocker and read all his lines as Freddie Mercury.

David Bowie, he struck me as.

And honestly, if you didn't interpret it as something like this, you were doing it wrong.

v

Mazed fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 18:01

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


If we're talking about Bowie and glam-rock inspirations, well:


Even better is that Amano has artwork for the Thin White Duke himself.


Happy Blue Cow
Oct 23, 2008

I have moooore respect for
Mr. Carpainter then others. Even if I become someone's steak dinner, I'll still respect him.



^


Speaking of Yuffie, there was an article today on Kotaku;

quote:

Now, 15 years after its initial release, director Yoshinori Kitase has released some of the few remaining development notes [of FF7] to the Weekly Famitsu. Among the development notes, mostly consisting of rough sketches and storyboards, are some preliminary plot notes with some ideas that were never used in the game. One such plot note covers details about meeting the character Yuffie Kisaragi. The following is a translation of the plot notes:

*Initial Plot*
About Yuffie
(Prep) From the opening and forward, wanted posters for Yuffie can be seen in town here and there.
Yuffie is a fugitive. Her age and what she looks like is different for each poster.

(How to make her join)
Random encounter.
Or, she will attack Cloud when he is sleeping in an inn.
Either event can happen anywhere.

(Any time)
From this point, Yuffie can be recruited at any time.
The Wutai event requires Yuffie and therefore, she must be recruited in order to complete the Wutai event.
What Yuffie looks like (and her level) is determined when she first joins.
(This is based on the last wanted poster that was viewed)
Therefore, by selectively choosing which wanted poster you look at last, you can recruit the Yuffie that suits your liking.
*end*

Sadly, there were no rough sketches for the different Yuffie styles (Or anything on the potential resurrection of Aerith for that matter). Still, it's an interesting look at some of the ideas that went into the game and what might have been.

Could have been pretty interesting had they done this, let the player essentially choose the Yuffie look they want. Although knowing them, probably all versions would have been variations of Ninja Teenage Brats...

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


It's nice to hear that they haven't hosed up Seph's look.

I forgot to mention this earlier but people were complimenting XIII's character designs and even though I am one of those few people who liked Snow, his stupid hat ruined everything. It's just totally unnecessary.

The rest of the designs I didn't really notice or care about. Although didn't Serah have like a side-ponytail? As a fan of the 80s, I can respect that.

The White Dragon
Nov 14, 2007

a dragon that is
uh

Mrs. Badcrumble posted:

Eh, I think ornateness of detail has always been a part of the original character designs (Amano's drawings and paintings are always immensely busy). I don't have a problem with that whether it's Nomura or Amano doing it.

Also, IIRC, Amano didn't *actually* design the FF9 characters.

Yeah he did a lot of the promo art, and you could tell his heart was really in it, but I think the guy who does a lot of the Mistwalker stuff today did the majority of the in-game concept art.

Mak0rz posted:

Ah so that's where Steiner's greaves went.

My favorite is Steiner's platemail jorts. Best article of clothing ever.

The White Dragon fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 18:19

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



NikkolasKing posted:

It's nice to hear that they haven't hosed up Seph's look.

I forgot to mention this earlier but people were complimenting XIII's character designs and even though I am one of those few people who liked Snow, his stupid hat ruined everything. It's just totally unnecessary.

The rest of the designs I didn't really notice or care about. Although didn't Serah have like a sode-ponytail? As a fan of the 80s, I can respect that.

Have you seen his hatless FFXIII-2 design? That bandanna is a godsend, I tell you what.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Pesky Splinter posted:

If we're talking about Bowie and glam-rock inspirations, well:


Is that the Emperor?

quote:

Even better is that Amano has artwork for the Thin White Duke himself.


I would play the everloving poo poo out of this Final Fantasy (Square, make it happen)

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


Mak0rz posted:

Is that the Emperor?

Yep, Mateus Palamecia. Not that anyone ever calls him that ingame. It's in some novel that was never translated. Incidently, he made a pact with Satan to gain his demonic powers.

Mak0rz posted:

I would play the everloving poo poo out of this Final Fantasy (Square, make it happen)

Yesssss!

Happy Blue Cow posted:

Speaking of Yuffie, there was an article today on Kotaku;

Could have been pretty interesting had they done this, let the player essentially choose the Yuffie look they want. Although knowing them, probably all versions would have been variations of Ninja Teenage Brats...

That's a pretty neat idea, shame they didn't implement it.

[e]: Holy loving poo poo
VVV

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 18:32

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Calaveron posted:

Have you seen his hatless FFXIII-2 design? That bandanna is a godsend, I tell you what.
Hahaha, yeah. Speaking of David Bowie....

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



Mak0rz posted:

Hahaha, yeah. Speaking of David Bowie....



Only one of those guys is pulling it off

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


Calaveron posted:

Only one of those guys is pulling it off

That's because it's Bowie - you could dress him in tramp rags, and he'd still be the most fashionable motherfucker on the street, and make it look good.

p.crestmont
Feb 17, 2012


Amano added more character to Final Fantasy games with just the character profile pics on the status screen in FFIV and FFVI than all the combined in game artwork of everything after VI.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


NES Final Fantasy trip report:

The Four Fiends of Chaos were a joke the first time I fought them (though Kary/Marilith gave me a bit of trouble if not only because of her infuriating dungeon), but god drat they are kicking my rear end in the Chaos Shrine. Worse still is that they are recurring. I can't just beat one and leave to heal because I'd have to fight them again

They also reward you with lovely exp and no Gil!

Mak0rz fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 18:50

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...


p.crestmont posted:

Amano added more character to Final Fantasy games with just the character profile pics on the status screen in FFIV and FFVI than all the combined in game artwork of everything after VI.

Except the character art on said portraits is pretty ridiculous and doesn't at all resemble their sprites. Frankly if they were going to give them portraits they should at least have made new ones that matched their sprites.

Raptor1033
Dec 17, 2010

This horse has a wack case of poo brain!


Harlock posted:

Take off the tiny jacket and I think it's 100% better. Kill all tiny jackets.

What? You mean his vest? A staple of fashion for several hundred years now?

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

THE WHIPPED CREAM GENOCIDE BROUHAHA


Dr Pepper posted:

Frankly if they were going to give them portraits they should at least have made new ones that matched their sprites.

Or, you know, make sprites that reflect the original portrait design. I know there are resolution/palette limitations, but I'm sure they could have at least given Locke a full-covering bandanna for example.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Watch that tongue... sticky!


To be honest, I think the sprites are more responsible for the charm than Amano's artwork, as much as I like it. FF6 in particular has incredibly expressive characters that are almost entirely the result of the sprites, no matter how simple they are.

p.crestmont
Feb 17, 2012


Dr Pepper posted:

Except the character art on said portraits is pretty ridiculous and doesn't at all resemble their sprites. Frankly if they were going to give them portraits they should at least have made new ones that matched their sprites.

That's the sprites' problem.

The technology has never been able to match up with his work, but now it's getting close and I hope they realize how great that could be.

e:

ImpAtom posted:

To be honest, I think the sprites are more responsible for the charm than Amano's artwork, as much as I like it. FF6 in particular has incredibly expressive characters that are almost entirely the result of the sprites, no matter how simple they are.

Yeah they were really expressive and fun, but I always pictured the characters as he drew them.

Zombies' Downfall
Aug 20, 2005

That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives.


Raptor1033 posted:

What? You mean his vest? A staple of fashion for several hundred years now?

Listen man just because you know the names for common articles of clothing doesn't mean you get to be the arbiter of taste, or whatever

Also the reason that some people prefer the old games that has nothing to do with nostalgia is you straight up don't spend as many ten-minute stretches just clicking through dialogue boxes and watching cutscenes; that hasn't killed modern FF games for me, but people who have low patience for drawn-out melodramatic JRPG exposition (a different thing from "not caring about story") can't handle games like 10 and 13. There's nothing wrong with that.

What's up, new thread.

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009



p.crestmont posted:

That's the sprites' problem.

But the sprites are very nice looking and the portraits look like complete rear end, so that'd be Amano's problem.

I really hate the large disconnect between the offical art and what's actually ingame.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


p.crestmont posted:

The technology has never been able to match up with his work, but now it's getting close and I hope they realize how great that could be.

Not a game, but an upcoming movie.



Zombies' Downfall
Aug 20, 2005

That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives.


Momomo posted:

But the sprites are very nice looking and the portraits look like complete rear end, so that'd be Amano's problem.

Do you just hate Amano's art, or do you think they're poorly rendered ingame? I disagree either way but the latter is way more understandable.

Momomo posted:

I really hate the large disconnect between the offical art and what's actually ingame.

The disconnect for the characters is only really big in FF5, where pretty much nobody looks like their artwork besides Galuf I think. In 6 the characters look quite a bit like their artwork other than Locke's bandana, and in 4 I don't actually think Amano did the status portraits anyway because for example Cecil's DK portrait just looks like a generic medieval greathelm whereas in the Amano art (and on the sprite) it's some kind of crazy elaborate aerodynamic anime thing.

EDIT: In fact if we're talking about the original versions of games, 6 is the only one I can think of where Amano's art is used for ingame portraits. Most of the other pre-PSX games don't even have ingame portraits including 5.

Zombies' Downfall fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 19:11

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


Zombies' Downfall posted:

EDIT: In fact if we're talking about the original versions of games, 6 is the only one I can think of where Amano's art is used for ingame portraits. Most of the other pre-PSX games don't even have ingame portraits including 5.

For that matter, none of the PSX games have them either. Or the post-PSX games.

I know they retroactively added them into V, II and I think IV.


Ignore me, I thought we were talking about the dialogue boxes.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 19:20

Momomo
Dec 25, 2009



Zombies' Downfall posted:

Do you just hate Amano's art, or do you think they're poorly rendered ingame? I disagree either way but the latter is way more understandable.

Both, really. His art is nice and all, but I don't think it fits the settings very well at all. The fact that ingame they look nothing like what he drew just makes it worse.

quote:

The disconnect for the characters is only really big in FF5, where pretty much nobody looks like their artwork besides Galuf I think. In 6 the characters look quite a bit like their artwork other than Locke's bandana, and in 4 I don't actually think Amano did the status portraits anyway because for example Cecil's DK portrait just looks like a generic medieval greathelm whereas in the Amano art (and on the sprite) it's some kind of crazy elaborate aerodynamic anime thing.

It's not just what the characters are wearing, it's the entire sprite style. FF6's humans all have really bulky arms and tiny legs, for instance. Locke looks more like a hired grunt than an agile thief.

The only version of 4 I've played is the DS version. While the designs looked more Amano, I didn't think they were very good to begin with anyway. Mostly Cecil's and Kain's armor, and Rydia's everything.

Never played 5, so I can't really say.

p.crestmont
Feb 17, 2012


Pesky Splinter posted:

Not a game, but an upcoming movie.





Whoa I was unaware of this! That's what I hope next gen FF games look like (with more color, but the linework is what they couldn't render until, apparently, now.)

Momomo posted:

Both, really. His art is nice and all, but I don't think it fits the settings very well at all. The fact that ingame they look nothing like what he drew just makes it worse.

I disagree completely, I always thought his art created the settings and characters, for IV and VI in particular.

Ignite Memories
Feb 27, 2005

White Widow.


I love amano's designs, but it might look weird to see them recreated faithfully in 3d. All his characters kinda have the same brooding robert pattinson face.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


So Pesky Splinter thanks for linking to the FFXIII LP. I'm reading it now. It's a long thread and very tedious to get through but I think one of the best parts of an LP is seeing people's reactions to stuff.

Like, I wanna know if anyone else liked Rosch(the PSICOM Colonel guy). He wasn't that great or anything but this game needed interesting villains and he is the only one.

Also I hope there is intense raging at Jihl when she actually ddoes something because holy loving God what a terrible excuse for a villain.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Was that the guy who looked like Sepiroth? I doubt he was very interesting because that's literally all I can remember about him.

Mrs. Badcrumble
Sep 21, 2002


pw pw pw posted:

I love amano's designs, but it might look weird to see them recreated faithfully in 3d. All his characters kinda have the same brooding robert pattinson face.

I think the biggest problem with his designs is seeing them *animated* in 3D. Yes, I've seen the animated works based on his designs, but I still think it wouldn't look like a moving Amano painting unless you're one of those people who thinks that things like framing and composition aren't immensely loving important to Amano's art.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


Fister Roboto posted:

Was that the guy who looked like Sepiroth? I doubt he was very interesting because that's literally all I can remember about him.

Well I don't think he actually looks like Sephiroth but there are only three villains in the game so I guess you probably do mean him.

p.crestmont
Feb 17, 2012


pw pw pw posted:

I love amano's designs, but it might look weird to see them recreated faithfully in 3d. All his characters kinda have the same brooding robert pattinson face.

That's true, but mainly for the young male/female characters (hence Terra having green hair in FFVI, she would have looked just like Celes/every other young female he draws).

However, Sabin and Edgar were identical twins and I think his drawings did a great job of differentiating them (outfits aside).

With a variety of characters I don't think it would be a problem.

Mrs. Badcrumble posted:

I think the biggest problem with his designs is seeing them *animated* in 3D. Yes, I've seen the animated works based on his designs, but I still think it wouldn't look like a moving Amano painting unless you're one of those people who thinks that things like framing and composition aren't immensely loving important to Amano's art.

Yeah this too, it would take both technology and a genius of an Art Director.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


NikkolasKing posted:

So Pesky Splinter thanks for linking to the FFXIII LP. I'm reading it now. It's a long thread and very tedious to get through but I think one of the best parts of an LP is seeing people's reactions to stuff.

Like, I wanna know if anyone else liked Rosch(the PSICOM Colonel guy). He wasn't that great or anything but this game needed interesting villains and he is the only one.

Also I hope there is intense raging at Jihl when she actually ddoes something because holy loving God what a terrible excuse for a villain.

No problem.

I think the antagonists in XIII are the most underdeveloped ones in the entire series, to the point that loving Garland has more of a character than they do.

But that problem is due to XIII's atrocious pacing - we see the antagonists in one single scene, and then one more twenty hours later, and then again in the final act. They are so forgettable infact, that when you see them again, the game has to remind you who the gently caress these people are. And that's not even getting into the vacuous wastes of space that Space Pope or Jihl are.

Oh, and they're cliched to hell, even more so than usual.

OatmealRaisin
Aug 15, 2007

I'm going to commit more science

I don't remember any of the antagonists in XIII. I remember the one boss battle that was stupidly hard. Also there was one you fought in the midgame and again at the very end, and it was almost the same exact fight both times. I couldn't tell you either of these enemies' names or what they looked like.

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME



Pirate Vaan Best Vaan.

Pesky Splinter posted:

Even better is that Amano has artwork for the Thin White Duke himself.




These were illustrations for Bowie x Iman fanfiction written by Neil Gaiman. Iman is a queen that kills all her suitors and the Thin White Duke was immortal vampire with a death wish.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010



One of the many reasons for FFXIII's awfulness was that the FMV's were made long before the story was written, or any of the gameplay had been decided.

That's why Lightning's gravity device breaks a few minutes into the game, only to fix itself near the end of the game where you reach an area that resembles the first trailer, and why even the oldest trailers contain FMV footage identical to the final game.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010


Pesky Splinter posted:

No problem.

I think the antagonists in XIII are the most underdeveloped ones in the entire series, to the point that loving Garland has more of a character than they do.

But that problem is due to XIII's atrocious pacing - we see the antagonists in one single scene, and then one more twenty hours later, and then again in the final act. They are so forgettable infact, that when you see them again, the game has to remind you who the gently caress these people are. And that's not even getting into the vacuous wastes of space that Space Pope or Jihl are.

Oh, and they're cliched to hell, even more so than usual.

Agreed on all points. I've commented on this before but XIII was seriously trying too hard to be not-XII. One example of this is the absolute focus on the playable cast whereas XII had a ton of cutscenes with the Archadians.

The result is that FFXIII's villain are just not memorable at all. I think between Jihl, Rosch and Barthandalus, they had about eight scenes in the entire game.

I guess I kind of cling to Rosch because I'm just so desperate for a decent villain in a see of forgetfulness.

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Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

I'm motivated


^^^
[e]: And most of those scenes are the villains talking utter tripe. Cid could have been made a good foil to the party, but nope. Four scenes. That's it. That's the all the allotted time they had to spend on his character to make way for the five million speeches about "I AM [character motivation]" or "We're [character motivation]".

TurnipFritter posted:

These were illustrations for Bowie x Iman fanfiction written by Neil Gaiman. Iman is a queen that kills all her suitors and the Thin White Duke was immortal vampire with a death wish.

Didn't it never get released or something? Aside from the artwork? Or am I thinking of something else?

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at May 17, 2012 around 21:13

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