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victrix posted:It's not necessary though. I played through the game the first time without a faq or any outside information just fine. Some fights were a bitch and I certainly leaned on action reflexes over rpg stats, but that's just as valid as super gearing to get through. Yeah I got midway through it my first time before looking at faqs but I was terrible and only did a few points of damage per hit. The game's sales had to have been affected negatively by the steep learning curve. What was up with square making super grindy crafting at that time? Between VS and FF8, they put some mmo grinds to shame.
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Feb 18, 2013 00:55
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effectual posted:Yeah I got midway through it my first time before looking at faqs but I was terrible and only did a few points of damage per hit. The game's sales had to have been affected negatively by the steep learning curve. Don't forget Legend of Mana, where some of the most-demanded tempering materials for most weapon/armor recipes were coins you got by spawning elementals in a boss room and then hoping you get a gold over silver, then tempering a ton of them in. Plus the mechanics are convoluted as hell to learn, and grinding for materials and money for materials can be time consuming, not to mention all the various effects and stat boosts you could temper in that you have to pretty much find by random chance, unless you take a lot of time trying to actually learn the system from a FAQ. The most the game ever tells you is, "You can temper stuff in, and maybe you might unlock something cool randomly. Have fun!" And most of your inventory's full of items where their only use is being tempered into weapons/armor, and even then a lot of them are useless anyway. And of course you don't need any of that stuff to actually beat the game. It's only useful in a New Game Plus if you want to make everything L99 for no reason.
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Feb 18, 2013 01:04
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While it's not a FF game, and since there's been discussion of other non-FF Square games in here anyway, does anyone have particularly strong opinions about Threads of Fate? I saw it on the PSN store recently and remember that it was more of a Zelda-ish game, and I considered trying it out. I'm okay with stupid stories as long as they aren't too stupid, but I'm more curious about how the gameplay is. All I remember on that front is that the boy has an axe and can shapeshift, and the girl can mix magic types or something.
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Feb 18, 2013 01:23
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So i'm on my first playthrough of XII on the Zodiac edition and i'm really enjoying it (loving loooove turbo mode). I read some previous posts and people mentioned the fights get a bit harder especially sidebosses later on. Problem is, since its Zodiac and (I being a dumbass because I thought there would be more characters) have a permanent setup of Knight/Breaker/WM/BM/Machinist/Archer. I pretty much have no supporting spellcasters, am I hosed for the fights later on? I like how every main story boss fight starts and ends with me using Quickening though.
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Feb 18, 2013 01:39
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bef posted:So i'm on my first playthrough of XII on the Zodiac edition and i'm really enjoying it (loving loooove turbo mode). I read some previous posts and people mentioned the fights get a bit harder especially sidebosses later on. Problem is, since its Zodiac and (I being a dumbass because I thought there would be more characters) have a permanent setup of Knight/Breaker/WM/BM/Machinist/Archer. I pretty much have no supporting spellcasters, am I hosed for the fights later on? You are absolutely fine, any buff that's worth it can be acquired in item form anyway.
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Feb 18, 2013 01:44
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Good to know, I'm pretty much saving all my accessories just for that reason. I'm in the woods about to find Mjrn (mid 20's), percentage wise how far am I?
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Feb 18, 2013 01:48
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bef posted:Good to know, I'm pretty much saving all my accessories just for that reason. I'm in the woods about to find Mjrn (mid 20's), percentage wise how far am I? Assuming you're not doing Hunts? Probably... 30-35%? Definitely on the lower half of the grand scale of things, I think, but your endgame levels would probably be around the low 50s if you're not rushing through things.
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Feb 18, 2013 01:54
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chumbler posted:While it's not a FF game, and since there's been discussion of other non-FF Square games in here anyway, does anyone have particularly strong opinions about Threads of Fate? I saw it on the PSN store recently and remember that it was more of a Zelda-ish game, and I considered trying it out. I'm okay with stupid stories as long as they aren't too stupid, but I'm more curious about how the gameplay is. All I remember on that front is that the boy has an axe and can shapeshift, and the girl can mix magic types or something. It's been a long while since I've played it, but as I recall, the gameplay was, at the very least, serviceable. The mechanics behind stuff like leveling up hp and mp is a bit weird, and the game can get somewhat grindy at times, but the gameplay never becomes an obstacle to enjoying it aside from loving Fancy Mel and her minigame bullshit. The story, on the other hand, is downright delightful. Mint is an absolutely unrepentant selfish jackass and it is great. I mean, poo poo, there's a point where the guy who would, in any other game be the love interest, saves her from a trap she set off, gets injured in the process, passes out, and if you check on them Mint just steals their wallet and leaves. It's an extremely silly plot that doesn't take itself seriously, in a way that's like, "I know I'm a video game and my purpose is to make people have fun." Definitely one of my favorite games as a kid, but I'm not sure if that's just nostalgia talking.
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Feb 18, 2013 01:55
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0080F0 posted:It's been a long while since I've played it, but as I recall, the gameplay was, at the very least, serviceable. The mechanics behind stuff like leveling up hp and mp is a bit weird, and the game can get somewhat grindy at times, but the gameplay never becomes an obstacle to enjoying it aside from loving Fancy Mel and her minigame bullshit. The story and characters are really charming, but... the platforming is bad. Like, really, really bad. Horrific. In parts it's borderline unplayable because of how bad the jumping mechanics are.
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Feb 18, 2013 02:09
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So like Brave Fencer Musashi?
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Feb 18, 2013 02:29
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Picked up Dimensions earlier today, and I just got the first set of jobs to play around with. Any combos or jobs I should just flat out avoid? Does it matter which character I assign jobs to (like giving White Mage to Dusk) or are they all pretty much blank slates?
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Feb 18, 2013 02:44
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Cervixalot posted:Picked up Dimensions earlier today, and I just got the first set of jobs to play around with. Any combos or jobs I should just flat out avoid? Does it matter which character I assign jobs to (like giving White Mage to Dusk) or are they all pretty much blank slates? I don't think there are any flat-out useless job combinations, but because of the whole JP system limiting how many jobs you can master for most of the game, you'll generally want to pick an archetype for each character to focus on. So don't give Black Magic to a Monk or something like that.
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Feb 18, 2013 02:48
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Cervixalot posted:Picked up Dimensions earlier today, and I just got the first set of jobs to play around with. Any combos or jobs I should just flat out avoid? Does it matter which character I assign jobs to (like giving White Mage to Dusk) or are they all pretty much blank slates? Every character gets a small boost to certain stats; Dusk makes the "best" healer because he gets the biggest MND boost out of the entire cast, for instance. Alba has the best INT and MP, Nacht has the best Speed, Glaive has the best Strength and HP (and tied with Aigis for best VIT), everyone else is kind of a mix. It's usually not too noticeable unless you're trying to stack as much Speed or INT as possible, because at best you're getting a +5 bonus.
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Feb 18, 2013 04:14
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swmmrmanshen posted:Is it somewhat ironic that people are criticizing FF13 of being too automated that and at the same time not giving players enough information? Not really dude, those aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, obscuring the actual game mechanics to hide how simple they really are is kind of a series staple. Plus I think only people who never really figured out the game say it's too automated; the criticism I hear more often is that it's too simple and repetitive.
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Feb 18, 2013 04:23
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Sorry, didn't mean to come off so passive aggressive. I am also something of an FF13 apologist. Something I'm curious about: Do people want the FF series to keep trying weird and new things? Or would everyone be happy if FF15 turns out to be a super traditonal FF game with modern bells and whistles?
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Feb 18, 2013 04:31
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swmmrmanshen posted:Something I'm curious about : Do people want the FF series to keep trying weird and new things? Or would everyone be happy if FF15 turns out to be a super traditonal FF game with modern bells and whistles? What do you mean by traditional though? ATB, FFT classes, Chocobo mini-games?
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Feb 18, 2013 05:01
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Mega64 posted:Don't forget Legend of Mana, where some of the most-demanded tempering materials for most weapon/armor recipes were coins you got by spawning elementals in a boss room and then hoping you get a gold over silver, then tempering a ton of them in. Plus the mechanics are convoluted as hell to learn, and grinding for materials and money for materials can be time consuming, not to mention all the various effects and stat boosts you could temper in that you have to pretty much find by random chance, unless you take a lot of time trying to actually learn the system from a FAQ. The most the game ever tells you is, "You can temper stuff in, and maybe you might unlock something cool randomly. Have fun!" And most of your inventory's full of items where their only use is being tempered into weapons/armor, and even then a lot of them are useless anyway. How could you forget their co-op mechanic where you can import your own character but they can only act and grow in limited fashion and have to  for NPCs at various points in time?Legend of Mana was such a goddamn trainwreck.
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Feb 18, 2013 05:01
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swmmrmanshen posted:Sorry, didn't mean to come off so passive aggressive. I am also something of an FF13 apologist. In terms of battle system, I feel like FFXIII is pushing the streamlining of the ATB about as far as it can go. FFXV should either go back to turn-based combat a la FFX, or just straight-up be an action game.
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Feb 18, 2013 05:06
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^^ I'm with you there, I'm kind of tired of this kinda turned based/kinda action game since it doesn't really excel at doing either. I'd love if they just did an out and out turned-based or action game in the vein of Crisis Core/KH/Tales Probably a too-long rant about where I think FF games should head but whatever. I like that Square attempts to try new things with each game, but I feel like they lose more than they gain at times. They really need to evaluate what worked in past games, take them, and refine them. FFX had a fantastic battle system (CTB) that was under-utilized and promptly shelved after that one game. A lot of the concepts they come up with are rarely ever used again or are made worse rather than improved like: FFV/T/X-2 job systems, FFVI/FFVII magic system, FFVIII card/draw system, FFIX ability/trance system, FFXII Gambits and so on. It would just be really great if they actually took a step back and looked at all these past games, trying to utilize some of their best ideas in the next one. Hell, I think it'd be a great idea if they looked at some of the competition, more specifically Atlus and the SMT series. Final Fantasy: Persona
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Feb 18, 2013 05:25
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swmmrmanshen posted:Sorry, didn't mean to come off so passive aggressive. I am also something of an FF13 apologist. The trick is, there's no real "traditional" FF after VII has become the icon of the series in a good part of it's fans. I guess that the keystones are: Flying ships, chocobo, high fantasy/steampunk, ATB, job system, today's wacky growth system, a save the world plot. For FF13: Don't bother. It's canon that FF13 is BAD, and everything related to it is BAD and it was better in the old days. You can't fight nostalgia, neither in yourself or in others. Nevermind that there's actual character development, the characters are BAD. Nevermind that the combat system actually finally shakes up the "Press X to attack, repeat two bajillion times" of all mid/endgames, it's MINDLESS and REPETITIVE. (Not to say it hasn't a bunch of stupid in it, first of all the simple fact that two-man paradigms are horrible and whoever thought that 9 chapters in them was a good idea is a moron) My dream combat system for XV is KH's, but with settable gambits for the non-controllable characters. So, i basically want the "action" version of FF XII. I wouldn't shed a tear if parrying wasn't in, though.
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Feb 18, 2013 05:34
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I'm really looking forward to what they're going to do in 13-3, personally. I am a big fan of the idea behind 13's combat, and 13-2 was largely a step forward for it (though I think being able to swap between single target and area focus during a battle instead of just outside would've been a good addition). 13-3's isn't going to be the next evolution of the system, considering it's a pretty big departure from how the series works, but it sounds so far like it will be a good balance of being active with a lot of stuff happening and being manageable. Adding some resource management in a meaningful way will also help. Regarding X's combat, the only other game I know of that did things similarly was Megaman X Command Mission, and while I feel most people probably want to forget it existed, the combat was done really well in that one, at least if you don't abuse Cinnamon. Characters had a lot of variety and customization, the way they did damage mattered, menu navigation was kept pretty minimal, and there were enough other things to do during a fight that it distracted from jrpg battles just being mash X 90% of the time. It also managed to avoid elixir syndrome as far as I recall. I like that each new FF game changes up its systems. Trying new things is the way games get better as a whole, and it's especially important when the big names do it. You just have to accept that sometimes things aren't going to work out as well as others, because that's what happens in experimentation. I will say, though, that if you are going to have hordes of meaningless, trivially easy fights (Academia 400 zombies in 13-2), you cannot have long load times and results screens for battles. That is guaranteed to just piss people off and ruin the effect you may have been going for. chumbler fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 05:46
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Aureon posted:The trick is, there's no real "traditional" FF after VII has become the icon of the series in a good part of it's fans. Sounds like FF9 to me. My favorite after Tactics (man I'd love a real sequel to it, even if the story's unrelated, just build on the mechanics, rather than dumb them down like FFTA).
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Feb 18, 2013 06:01
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I'm replaying FFTA:2 right now, and it's also making me wish for a true sequel to FFT. I feel like breaking off in to six different races doesn't allow for enough interesting interactions and combos between jobs, and also that the weapon based learning is a huge pain in the rear end and an artificial way to extend the length of the game (especially since you're putting yet another layer of grinding in with the Bazaar system).
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Feb 18, 2013 06:07
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chumbler posted:I will say, though, that if you are going to have hordes of meaningless, trivially easy fights (Academia 400 zombies in 13-2), you cannot have long load times and results screens for battles. That is guaranteed to just piss people off and ruin the effect you may have been going for. Everyone, and i mean everyone, hates Academya 400. Academya 4xx is where the awesome resides, though. I loved the place. effectual posted:Sounds like FF9 to me. My favorite after Tactics (man I'd love a real sequel to it, even if the story's unrelated, just build on the mechanics, rather than dumb them down like FFTA). Well, FF9 lacked a job system. Or, actually, had the characters hardwired into it. Let's remember that FF9, as PS1's swan song, was a 'boon' to oldtime fans after the experimentation of VII/VIII, so it pretty much fits all the checks. It even has crystals! The reality about FF9, though, is that the first disc (Mist continent) was mind-blowingly good, and the rest was much more variable in quality. But hoo, Alexandria/Lindblum/Toleno were so fantastically good, and let's not get started on the impact that the Prima Vista makes, shall we. ... Let me find the time, and i'll be in for my 18th playthru of that game! Is there a way to finish FFT without being in for two or more chapters of long tactical slogs that you cannot lose but must complete? I wasn't even abusing anything, just Assassins and Samurai (without even bare fists)
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Feb 18, 2013 06:14
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FFT is a sandbox tactic game. The story fights provide the steadily rising difficulty and unlock new areas, but then you fart around in them in random fights, akin to GTA.
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Feb 18, 2013 06:21
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Evil Fluffy posted:How could you forget their co-op mechanic where you can import your own character but they can only act and grow in limited fashion and have to On the other hand, Legend of Mana was also a fantastic, unbelievable game.
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Feb 18, 2013 10:16
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Aureon posted:Is there a way to finish FFT without being in for two or more chapters of long tactical slogs that you cannot lose but must complete? I wasn't even abusing anything, just Assassins and Samurai (without even bare fists) There sure is. Some fan group put together a rework of the game that fixes a lot of the difficulty and makes it more challenging (and less bullshit) without changing any of the core parts of it. It's the FFT 1.3 patch, hosted here: http://www.insanedifficulty.com/index.php/Final%20Fantasy%20Tactics%201.3/home If you mean the standard game without any modifications, then not really unless you deliberately challenge yourself with something like an all class playthrough. The difficulty curve spikes early and then plummets until the end of the game, with the occasional outlier like the Wiegraf battle if you aren't prepared for it.
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Feb 18, 2013 11:04
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swmmrmanshen posted:Something I'm curious about : Do people want the FF series to keep trying weird and new things? Or would everyone be happy if FF15 turns out to be a super traditonal FF game with modern bells and whistles? There's not really a true example of a traditional FF game, though. Half the main games don't have crystals, or moogles, or jobs, or even ATB systems. Only a few have job systems, others have interchangeable abilities, others with distinct characters, and some are a mix of these. Most of the series staples don't even show up until FF3. As much as I'd love another game along the lines of the SNES RPGs (like Dimensions with an actual story), the best part of this series is how it always changes everything up each game. This leads to games people don't like at all, but it also leads to some crazy stuff that people end up adoring, games that would've never happened if FF never shook things up constantly. I'm just hoping 15 will be one of those games I end up loving the poo poo out of.
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Feb 18, 2013 11:35
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bef posted:So i'm on my first playthrough of XII on the Zodiac edition and i'm really enjoying it (loving loooove turbo mode). I read some previous posts and people mentioned the fights get a bit harder especially sidebosses later on. Problem is, since its Zodiac and (I being a dumbass because I thought there would be more characters) have a permanent setup of Knight/Breaker/WM/BM/Machinist/Archer. I pretty much have no supporting spellcasters, am I hosed for the fights later on? You have White Mage in that setup. Even if you didn't, with espers Archer gets Cura and Raise, Knight gets high-tier white magic like Curaja and Bravery/faith, and Machinist gets high-tier time magic like Hastega. Then, Breaker's statbreak skills now work on any enemy, taking them from "useless" to "hilariously powerful". That's a great team in my opinion.
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Feb 18, 2013 11:41
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I feel like FF13's battle system was held back from being more fun by a lot of the "traditional" elements of Final Fantasy. It's a game that wants to be an action RPG, but it doesn't give you full control over your character like one should. Motion and position in particular. Imagine being able to control where Lightning is on the battlefield, and being able to actually move her out of the way of an attack, rather than praying to the RNG gods that it misses. I think they were almost definitely trying to make something like a Japanese Mass Effect. But yeah, my point is that if they're going to try something new, they should go all out with it and not try to clumsily include the "traditional" stuff.
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Feb 18, 2013 11:49
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I was actually thinking that the other day after seeing one of those "speed kill" videos. Even though it's a menu based game there are movement and animation tricks that make you do more damage! But you have no control over any of it! It felt so stupid, like Sazh can do more damage with his Blitz because he physically shoots bullets that individually do damage, and certain enemies can be hit by more bullets if he's close enough independent of stats and poo poo. Like, either give the player control over where they are moving/shooting or make it a straight calculation, don't try to mash them together. FFXIII-3 looks like it might be moving in this direction but it also took 3 games and they'll misunderstand what people want anyway
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Feb 18, 2013 12:33
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Final Fantasy X HD tech demo! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gd3gWcXPJQSquare-Enix also said to expect more news on this SoonTM Also, a Noctis perfume is coming out  and the FFXIV Beta starts February 25th! Progress! Veks fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 16:49
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A Noctis... perfume. All right, that's it. Stop the car. I'm getting off.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:07
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Pureauthor posted:A Noctis... perfume. I know you got problems... hell, we all do, but you gotta understand that there ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on, till get to the end of the line.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:09
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It's gonna be for PS3 too, right? Not just Vita? Ain't no way I'm buying a Vita just for that.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:24
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Pureauthor posted:A Noctis... perfume. Surely that at least means it's not dead, right? Though it would be funnier if it were, and Square have just continued bringing out marketing tie-ins for a game that they've not been developing for years.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:25
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I love FF13's battle system but I really hope we haven't seen the last of FF12's.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:26
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I love how HD has lost all meaning here. That was clearly not HD. I could count the polygons, dammit!
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Feb 18, 2013 17:31
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I think it'd be cool if they made a super tactical turn-based game, basically going in a complete opposite direction of FFXIII's battle system. Something like a combination of FFX and a Shin Megami Tensei game.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:32
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Mordaedil posted:I love how HD has lost all meaning here.
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